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 Post subject: elma on android
PostPosted: 6 Feb 2014, 21:17 
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Kuski

Joined: 30 Apr 2007, 13:20
Posts: 114
So, maybe a few already heard, but I managed to recreate elma physics in my own project. That basically means that I figured out what the physical model of elma bike is, in other words what physics equations takes in place. In contrast, I don't know how elma actually performs those equations, or how the algorithms in elma works. That in turn leads to the fact that while the physics *seem* same to elma, they aren't equal. So for example, auto levels don't perform exactly how they would in original elma. Also, things that depends on fps(=bug bounces(?), wheel stickiness) are quite different in my version. Now you might think, what's the matter of all this boring/noninteresting stuff?

Well, I was thinking of maybe -if all the luck is on my side- creating an android version of elma with same physics but probably with different gameplay. The thing is, as this project is now taking off to different direction from elma, what things would you guys value in an android game that has the same physics? Would such thing be worth at all? Would you just like an elma copy in android? Now, when the project is still at its roots, there is pretty much all options available to make the most of the physics. On the other hand, there's still a lot to do.

gibe coments

Here's the exe if you feel like testing the physics:
[Windows] https://www.dropbox.com/s/ezn3f7objeig4tr/wheels.zip
[Android] https://www.dropbox.com/s/eiqlur54jcmtfnl/wheels-debug.apk


Last edited by Ropelli on 14 May 2014, 20:29, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 6 Feb 2014, 22:17 
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39mins club
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Joined: 1 Sep 2002, 16:48
Posts: 833
so lulz that you can change the size of the wheels. i can't find the controls for brake and turn?


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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 6 Feb 2014, 22:31 
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Kuski

Joined: 30 Apr 2007, 13:20
Posts: 114
J-sim wrote:
so lulz that you can change the size of the wheels. i can't find the controls for brake and turn?

Oh yeah, forgot to tell about the controls. WAD for up/left/right, shift to turn and space for brake. And as you said you can change the wheel size with Q and E. Esc will restart the lev.


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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 6 Feb 2014, 22:59 
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Kuski
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Joined: 17 Sep 2007, 21:07
Posts: 1143
you've been developing elma2 with smibu, how you don't have the exact physics as he has already extracted them?

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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 6 Feb 2014, 23:28 
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Kuski

Joined: 30 Apr 2007, 13:20
Posts: 114
abruzzi wrote:
you've been developing elma2 with smibu, how you don't have the exact physics as he has already extracted them?

Well, the decompiled code isn't exactly readable code where you could easily tell what the code does. I've never even tried to understand the decompiled code smibu extracted from original elma. The code itself is very messy(pretty much comparable to assembly code what the process runs), and you can't really use it to understand the physics model. The decompiled code still calculates the physics exactly like in original elma, but you still pretty much have no clue how it actually works.

So what I have here is the understanding of the model and my own version implementing it. It's alot easier to make something similar to elma this way and since it's my own code, I have the full rights to it.


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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 7 Feb 2014, 16:43 
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Kuski
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Joined: 6 Jan 2009, 13:08
Posts: 1963
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I would be happy to have an android app to download levs/recs from eolsite/kopasite and watch them instantly. Nothing more needed.

But the concept sounds sound. :)

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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2014, 22:25 
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Kuski

Joined: 30 Apr 2007, 13:20
Posts: 114
Decided I could aswell use this thread to update my progress with the project. So I'll probably make some post about changed stuff/new things in the project and update the dl link on the first post.

Things changed in the first update:
-added initial support for ingame graphics(currently I just use graphics from elma as placeholders). Also, the kuski's skeleton isn't adjusted yet with the graphics, so the kuski looks rather awful at the moment.
-added initial support for recs. Currently rec files will crash if they don't have any actual data in it and that will be fixed later. Recs also might display volts erroneously, and might have few other bugs.
-tweaked volt animations a bit

Things you might want to know if testing:
wheels.exe initially starts in rec mode, and you must press esc to go to gameplay mode.
In rec mode, there are currently 4 controls: A for reversed playback, S for pause, D for 2x speed and W for 0.5x speed.
In play mode, there are the controls for playing and 4 additional controls: AWD&Shift&Space for playing, Q&E for changing wheel sizes, F for noclip and Z for disabling the textures for kuski.

So, what the project is currently missing(which also plays a very big role with the success of this thing) are the custom graphics. The graphics are quite important, because then I can adjust the kuski's skeleton properly and make the code final so it doesn't need to be changed later. I'll also be able to make all the physics related to head's movement final(currently it looks rather awful as you can see). If there's someone willing to make the graphics, the project also will become more serious and will have greater chances of actually happening. So if you think you could do that or just want more info, you can send me a private message.


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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 1 Mar 2014, 16:35 
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Kuski
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Joined: 15 Dec 2011, 01:07
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lol Ropelli, this was the most fun ever! :D When pressed "e" the wheels became huge :D:D:D And when pressed "f" I could escape through the polygons :D

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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 3 Mar 2014, 21:02 
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Kuski
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Joined: 29 Jul 2012, 20:58
Posts: 22
Yes please elma on android :) I just ordered my very first android phone so you better port elma to andoid then. With new internals maby and some wr scoreboard so there is some point to hoyl elma on phone/tablet.


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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 7 May 2014, 13:53 
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Kuski

Joined: 30 Apr 2007, 13:20
Posts: 114
Now that the school is basically over for me in this semester, I finally got the time and motivation to work with this project.

Things changed:
- kuski now has somewhat decent graphics(elma graphics as placeholders)
- elmalike head bobbing
You can dl teh newest version from the link in the first post.

The rec mode is not updated yet, so it's pretty buggy at the moment. I'll probably rewrite the code there later when the feature is actually needed.

I'm not sure yet what I'll start working next, but it's probably something like menu system or gameplay related. I'll probably try to compile the project on android at some point, so I get some feeling how it would work there.

Comment if you feel like commenting.


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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 8 May 2014, 00:56 
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Kuski
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007, 01:05
Posts: 3299
first time I actually try it, thought it was for android already, so was lazy to install on phone. looking forward to actually try it on android, great gameplay so far :)

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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 11 May 2014, 16:54 
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Kuski
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Would be pretty max to be able to play elma-physiced elma on android, all the wannabe's suck so hard! Do you have any controls concept yet?

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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 14 May 2014, 20:22 
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Kuski

Joined: 30 Apr 2007, 13:20
Posts: 114
Ported the project on Android. It was actually a bit more work than I expected, mainly because Android uses Opengl ES instead of normal Opengl. In addition to that I had to rework the interface between the OS and the game, which also took its own time.

If you want to test the Android version, here's the .apk file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/eiqlur54jcmtfnl/wheels-debug.apk
The apk is - incase if you didn't know - basically just a zip file which contains the executable for the game and some assets files. It also has a manifest file which tells the Android OS how to run the game and for example what kind of permissions it will need. Currently this project doesn't need any permissions at all. Note though, the installer doesn't create any shortcuts yet. It only shows up in the list of installed programs.

Pawq wrote:
Would be pretty max to be able to play elma-physiced elma on android, all the wannabe's suck so hard! Do you have any controls concept yet?

Here's the controls for it: http://i.imgur.com/1b5S12k.png
Imo, it feels a bit hard to use, but I can't come up with a better way to implement it.


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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 14 May 2014, 22:50 
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Kuski
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Joined: 24 Nov 2009, 20:53
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elma on casete deck
picture not revelantImage

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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 14 May 2014, 23:41 
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Kuski
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 17:58
Posts: 1458
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Ropelli wrote:
Pawq wrote:
Would be pretty max to be able to play elma-physiced elma on android, all the wannabe's suck so hard! Do you have any controls concept yet?

Here's the controls for it: http://i.imgur.com/1b5S12k.png
Imo, it feels a bit hard to use, but I can't come up with a better way to implement it.

Hmm duno, something that first came to mind: hold finger in screen to gas, tap for brake, double tap for volt, swipe for turn or sth?

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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 15 May 2014, 11:26 
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Kuski

Joined: 30 Apr 2007, 13:20
Posts: 114
roope wrote:
Ropelli wrote:
Pawq wrote:
Would be pretty max to be able to play elma-physiced elma on android, all the wannabe's suck so hard! Do you have any controls concept yet?

Here's the controls for it: http://i.imgur.com/1b5S12k.png
Imo, it feels a bit hard to use, but I can't come up with a better way to implement it.

Hmm duno, something that first came to mind: hold finger in screen to gas, tap for brake, double tap for volt, swipe for turn or sth?

Doesn't sound that intuitive to me. I also tried volting using accelerometer, so that turning the phone right or left would volt correspondingly. That didn't work either, in fact, it felt worse than the initial controls.

I think I need to drop support for turning, so that levels are basically driven from left to right. That's because the turning with current controls is just too clumsy and doesn't work well enough, and I don't know if there are better control setups really.


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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 15 May 2014, 11:55 
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Kuski
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Joined: 5 Feb 2010, 00:25
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Can't just hev norm 5 (+alo?) buttons?

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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 15 May 2014, 14:23 
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Kuski

Joined: 30 Apr 2007, 13:20
Posts: 114
Lousku wrote:
Can't just hev norm 5 (+alo?) buttons?

Maybe. Alo not supported, though.


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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2014, 15:40 
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Kuski
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Joined: 19 Feb 2010, 14:16
Posts: 362
I was thinking. Would it be possible or worth thinking about to make a replay watching program for android? A program that you could watch .rec files with, just like watching replay online in elmaonline.net. Also if that is already possible somehow, don't just giggle and tell me how :p

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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2014, 18:46 
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Kuski
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Joined: 23 May 2002, 13:59
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Zero wrote:
I was thinking. Would it be possible or worth thinking about to make a replay watching program for android? A program that you could watch .rec files with, just like watching replay online in elmaonline.net. Also if that is already possible somehow, don't just giggle and tell me how :p


Take phone.
Unlock phone.
Open browser.
Type elmaonline.net.
Click some battle.
Click watch replay online.
Bask in the awesomeness that is ville_j.

A tad laggy in the native android browser for me, but better in firefox. Could make more phone friendly site though.

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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2014, 21:02 
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Kuski
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Joined: 6 Jul 2006, 08:41
Posts: 164
Surprised there's so little feedback here. Great fucking job with the android version, really excited about it. Went through the lev a couple of times, works very smooth on my old device. Braking feels a little bit different, otherwise everything is exactly the same. As you already mentioned, turning seems to be the biggest issue with the controls, mostly because volts use the same part of the screen. There is a pretty hard spot in the level where you have to maintain high speed to make the jump, that's where I felt the issue the most. Can't come up with an elegant solution though. Maybe split the right half of the screen for volts and turning for now (like you did with the left half)? Also current turning > no turning at all, that's for sure.
I feel like you don't get enough credit for what you've done, this is basically one of a kind working project. Great, great job.


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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2014, 10:15 
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35mins club
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Joined: 28 Nov 2002, 15:54
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i gues litle feedback here because: android. Android version will always be separate from EOL and therefore there's no point in serious playin with a fone, it can (can) be (very) oke for cruising some long FFik while in train or such though

Also what the community really has been needing are few little updates on EOL, and some features have been longed for for the last 7 (or even 14) years already. 2 mans were able reproduce elma fizics (in 2 different wayS), but no progress hav been made on what the community truly needs. ye ye fuk you stfu i know there's a lot of work to recreate something like EOL, but it feels like the keys for ferrari were found, but they are just gatering dust on the table

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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2014, 17:18 
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39mins club
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I have nothing more to add.

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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2014, 06:49 
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Kuski
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Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 14:04
Posts: 327
Zweq wrote:
it feels like the keys for ferrari were found, but they are just gatering dust on the table


that's a bit harsh


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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2014, 11:03 
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Kuski
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Joined: 19 Feb 2010, 14:16
Posts: 362
Tested it. Nice work with the physics, worked very well. The controls are abit of an issue for me tho. Sometimes the volts didn't work at all and it feels abit weird overall. Have you tried buttons? Like in many other games ported to android.

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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 19 Sep 2014, 10:28 
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Kuski
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Joined: 29 Jul 2012, 20:58
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Is Ropelli working on this anymore? Tried it and seems to be good. Controls are a bit awkward but ez fixable. Would be cool to hoyl elma on phone.


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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 19 Sep 2014, 12:06 
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Kuski

Joined: 30 Apr 2007, 13:20
Posts: 114
k00 wrote:
Is Ropelli working on this anymore? Tried it and seems to be good. Controls are a bit awkward but ez fixable. Would be cool to hoyl elma on phone.

Maybe. I have this thing called army going on right now..


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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 19 Sep 2014, 13:31 
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Kuski
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Joined: 29 Jul 2012, 20:58
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Yeah me too... That's the reason why I want elma on phone - so I can play it.


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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2014, 21:09 
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Kuski
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007, 01:05
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finally gave it a try, max game :) gonna take a while to get used to the controls, possible to add levs to play?

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 Post subject: Re: elma on android
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2014, 21:48 
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Kuski

Joined: 1 Oct 2006, 08:12
Posts: 195
The controls are great once you get the hang of it!! This is an astonishing accomplishment. Please introduce more functionality once possible.

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