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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2015, 15:12 
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milagros wrote:
where are the recs then?

I don't have program to brute force/monte carlo. It is just an idea. U have a code of elma so u can make it if u can :D

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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2015, 17:43 
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what makes you think it is fast enough?
consider 1 sec of elma - 1000 frames at most (just brake/thottle on/ogg gives you 3^1000 possibilities)
let's say the evaluation runs at most 10x faster than standard elma playing
you want to resolve it with some sampling strategy - how many samples (elma tries) can you handle? what makes you think it is better than human bugpro?

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PostPosted: 27 Oct 2015, 21:13 
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Update:
2. Flat Track 0:08,13 -> 0:08,11
4. Over and Under 0:11,65 -> 0:10,08
5. Uphill Battle 0:11,23 -> 0:11,04
23. Quick Round 0:07,09 -> 0:07,07
27. Shelf Life 0:11,77 -> 0:08,74
30. Pipe 0:16,53 -> 0:09,73
32. Steep Corner 0:10,10
38. Curvaceous 0:09,11

02 decide to put this as only level without dat cause rec has all animations. Still want dat if someone has.
04 improved with better knowledge of bug playing, very impressive stuf.
05 tried for an hour for megastart and improved some only.
23 improved 0,02 so rec shows all frames so anpe can stfu about me missing flower.
27 improved cause was not really good, now very good.
30 norm run finally, start super annoying here cause polygons too thin for wheels to stick.
32 fuck this level in the ass with a screwdriver.
38 norm run.

Current tt if put live wrs for unfinished levels is 15:20,34

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PostPosted: 28 Oct 2015, 07:17 
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Very insane work bene! What will the final TT be =)

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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2015, 00:29 
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2. Flat Track 0:08,11 -> 0:08,09
10. The Steppes 0:07,60 -> 0:07,09
17. Labyrinth 0:15,41
20. Upside Down 0:18,11
31. Animal Farm 0:18,86
39. Haircut 0:23,28
42. Enduro 0:43,47 -> 0:12,31
43. He He 0:13,36
46. Bowling 0:26,75
49. What the Heck 0:09,07
50. Expert System 0:13,00

Total 10:13,97

2 finally figured out how to beat zew
10 zew improved his run thanks for that
17 norm run in annoying lev
20 oke run with funny end
31 fuck this level seriously octodad worst polygon for bugging
39 fuck this level even more it horriblest shapes everywhere for bug driving
42 norm time
43 almost 1337 :/
46 bad time will improve
49 norm time
50 norm time in semi annoying lev

I will go for u10tt by improving some levels that need improve and then put video.

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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2015, 09:25 
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Incredible :) how many hours of work for each lev approximately?

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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2015, 12:10 
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i guess haircut is ez better
the pussy bounce worked also with megaspeed and then after taking apples, ez megabounce back and flower taken from the top

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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2015, 12:24 
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Ye haircut is pretty bad. I get to Apples in 10s then cant turn fast and all horrible. Will improve this somehow to get u10 TT.

Bjen hard to say some levels several hours. Others under an hour. Like 39 maybe 4 hours to get to Apples while 38 was 5 mins to get all Apples and 30 mins to reach flower.

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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 09:07 
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Elasto Mania 100% tas in 09:54,58 by bene, Zweq and FinMan

Link to run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IocsDW2KLEs
Link to short video of tricks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRKq37rHOVc

I reread this topic and realized that there is some information in the start but filled with incorrectness, guessing and questions. So below are final comments and descriptions. Hopefully this will give you more of an insight in the runs.

Apple bug, hooked bug
If you take an apple with both wheels in a single frame it will count as two apples, allowing you to skip apples. You can also do this with the head and a wheel.
Theoretically you can grab an apple with both wheels and the head for it to count 3 times. I have not found a sane setup to do this anywhere.
Apple bugs are generally not that useful and used in a few levels only.

Clipping
Only the surface of the polygon counts as collision ground, so you can clip into a polygon and drive around on the inside. There is however a limit on how far outside the level you can drive, a crash will occur if you move too far out of bounds.
A wheelclip will occur if the wheel travels past the center point in a single frame. Wheel clips can never occur if the wheel is touching the polygon.
Headclips require the entire distance of the head to be traveled in a single frame, since the heads position changes instantly from one frame to the next when you change direction of the bike it is possible to clip at relatively low speeds using a frame perfect turn. Approx 1/3 of the speed is required to clip with the turn.

Bugpop
In the physics engine there is a division between the distance of the center of the bike and the wheels. When the distance approaches zero the wheel pops (moves instantly to another position far away in 1 frame).
The result of this calculation is multiplied by the timestep, so lower fps causes bigger pop. If the direction of the pop is (x,y) when braking on the frame with lowest min distance it will be (-x,-y) if gassing. Doing neither will not cause a pop.
This is the main trick used to start bugging. However when the bike is stretched (wheel is far from bike) the physics behave differently. If you play at high fps for too long the wheel will unstretch and bug stops. If you play at low fps for too long(around 0.10s, depending on how big the stretch is) you crash the game.
When you go from low fps to high fps you cause more stretch of the wheel(s). So you want to play at low fps for a few frames and then go back to high fps to keep stretch big enough for continued bugging and to prevent crashes.
You can not do this trick again during bugging as it requires you to stop bugging and drive normally for a while to compress wheel to center of bike.

Bugbounce
A bugbounce is a special case of a bugpop. It happens if the pop causes the wheel to clip the polygon surface you are touching. Since it is impossible for the wheels to clip a surface they touch, the pop that is orthogonal to the surface gets removed. All the energy from the removed pop gets transferred to the bike in form of speed.
So a pure bugbounce has a pop perfectly orthogonal to the surface and only adds speed, the pop is never visible. Bugbounces alone are rarely useful as you only gain speed, in combination with a bugpop it can be useful as you gain initial speed.

Stretch bugbounce
It is because of stretch bugbounces that pure bugbounces and apple bugs are rarely useful. A stretch bugbounce is caused by your wheel coming in contact with a surface during big stretch.
This bounce causes the bike to gain speed in the direction orthogonal to the surface. It doesn't always work, like sometimes only wheels stretch and you get 0 speed on the bike and sometimes you get speed that crashes the game.
When stretch bugbounces was found a whole new way of playing opened up. It was now possible to build insane speeds and do clips anywhere and then afterwards slow down and start driving normally like nothing happened.
Previous runs had slower speed bugbounces that was possible to brake without dying or just a single bugbounce that aimed for the flower in a straight line (int16 start, int02, int19, int29).
There is no way to control the wheels enough during big stretches to get apple bugs and driving normally without stretch bugbounces is very slow. This is why apple bugs are not useful.

General explanation of how runs work
The physics during bug playing is very different to that during non bug playing and was quite tedious to explore. Frequent crashes and having to reset the game cost much time.
There are 2 different crashes that occur: one is going too far out of bounds and the other I have no idea about, both are usually caused by the same thing - low fps for too many frames. Going out of bounds was annoying in some levels when I wanted to exit the level to swing around and couldn't leave the level because of out of bounds crashing.

In the beginning I played short bugs for several hours until I got the bug I wanted, for example the first clip bug in int35 is 1 second long and took 7 hours to drive and I had no idea it was even possible when I started trying.
After a while i realized that stretch bounces existed. Not only does this explain why int35 first clip works, suddenly there is a whole new way of playing opening up.
Int35 first clip works because while clipping with the head using low fps frames the wheels touch the oversides of the polygons causing the bike to brake more than normally, because this added speed in the opposite direction the bike was traveling.

Right after initial bugpop the wheel is rarely near a surface where I want to gain speed so low fps frames are combined with high fps frames to keep stretch and change position of wheel. Then once wheel touches the correct surface change to low fps and gain much speed.
Playing at 50-150 fps for a few frames during big stretch can add really weird frames that change wheels position, bikes rotation and stuff which helps reposition wheel.

Once speed is built up in the wanted direction using stretch bugbounces I stay at high fps until wheels are near polygons, then switch back to low fps to clip with wheels so you don't change speed.
Sometimes low fps frames are added mid air to slightly change rotation, add spin or increase stretch, if speed and/or rotation is good there can be many high fps frames without unstretching too much.
When I get close to apples or the flower I use 50-150 fps weird frames to change positions so wheel/head grabs apple/flower. Sometimes it is really easy to reach sometimes really hard. It is all determined by randomness.
Since eol is not constant fps there are many combinations possible running fps limiter at 100 fps and using different moves for a few frames, so just because 100 fps didn't work the first 20 times there is always a reason to try again.
When the level is a straight line to finish it is easier cause there is never any change of initial speed you built up, for example int37,int38.
Stopping or changing direction of the speed you built up is quite hard and might require multiple wheeltouches on polygons to slow down, for example int31,int46.

Closing comets
Going forward with elma tasing I would really like to see a 1000 fps only tas with no bugpops. But we currently have no way of verifying if bugpop occurred. Although it might be a bit strange since some of the current non tas world records might be impossible to beat. I have no plans to make a 1000 fps only tas.
For bug elma tasing there are many improvements that can be made with better tools, I did most of the playing during bug parts and my hand hurts from spamming the pause button to add low fps frames without crashing because there is no frame advance while playing.
Brute force to help finish a level by playing a few frames might prove very useful as well. For example you could in theory finish int02 near instantly after bug, just do opposite input (brake instead of gas) and wheel pops towards flower, but its not sane to try this without tools.
Thanks to Lee for creating splash screen background.
Thanks to anpe for being most awesom man on eol wordl.
Thanks to striker for creating spreadsheet with statistics.

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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 14:05 
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nice job :beer: too bad all recs very short, int46 looked most fun to me


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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 14:40 
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Grats to all mans involved, finally


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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 14:51 
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Fun stuff, maybe 55 should be included since it's obviously possible?
Are you going to post it on tasvideos or somewhere like that? I think people will like this craziness.


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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 15:06 
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Impsy recs.

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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 15:33 
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kuchitsu wrote:
Fun stuff, maybe 55 should be included since it's obviously possible?
Are you going to post it on tasvideos or somewhere like that? I think people will like this craziness.

Already posted it there.
Didn't include 55 cause im lazy and doesn't count towards TT.

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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 16:09 
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coal good job, even though not fan of teh bugs and would enjoy "real" sl runs more, can appreciate work put into it and the result still

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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 16:22 
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I wonder if you have been using some special LGR where the vector connecting the centre of the bike and wheel is clearly shown to help to get it close to zero and get the bugpop, and if not, I wonder if it would be any useful =)

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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 16:30 
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I thought about using a special lgr, finman also iirc. But I found it was easier to force zweq to drive the initial bugs. In the end the only initial bug i did was int12 and zweq laughted at it)))

The biggest nonstandard help was disabling turn animations. They are seriously annoying when trying to headclip at 450 speed during big stretch.

http://kopasite.net/up/odg8zfkw5537535/stats.txt

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Last edited by bene on 19 Nov 2015, 19:49, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 19:30 
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Bene did about 95% of all the work
I did full rides in levels: 10, 19, 25, 44, 47
I Played until first bug/pop, also gave extra help: 11, 16, 35, 52
I Played until first bug/pop, but didn't give any other help cuz fukface: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 14, 15, 17, 18, 20, 22, 23, 24, 26, 27, 28, 31, 32, 33, 34, 36, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 45, 46, 48, 49, 50, 51, 54
I had nothing to do with: 8, 12, 13, 21, 30, 37, 53
That leaves one lev, which is 29 where I only did 2nd bounce

Gz all for work complete, next step is better tool and computer optimization for u 5min

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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 19:35 
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21 is 21z1429.rec and 30 is based on 32 TT project rec.
Others where no zamppe is finman work. Except maybe 8

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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 20:02 
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I feel like this "should" get tens of thousands of views. I mean, I don't know any other TAS runs that look so fucked up. Just need some gaming journalist to notice this and there you go. Or dunno, maybe the game isn't notable enough for people to get excited about it... But I think many played it once in childhood at least.

btw I appreciate how you made it with ingame sounds instead of some stupid song. :D


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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2015, 21:53 
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The first couple levs gave laughs, after that it became quite meh. It's just not fun to follow high speed total randomness. One of the few things that I remember from the video after watching is New Wave start, which was buggy but still followable.

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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2015, 03:46 
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Nice

Was also posted in https://www.reddit.com/r/elastomania/ and http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 770#422770

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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2015, 19:20 
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kuchitsu wrote:
I feel like this "should" get tens of thousands of views. I mean, I don't know any other TAS runs that look so fucked up. Just need some gaming journalist to notice this and there you go. Or dunno, maybe the game isn't notable enough for people to get excited about it... But I think many played it once in childhood at least.

btw I appreciate how you made it with ingame sounds instead of some stupid song. :D

I think you are blinded by your love for the game. But if you truly feel this way then go ahead and spread link. I wont mind.

Sound decision was very early. Imo easier to get popularity with default sound and menu rather than without. Like some elmaman will hate sound while YouTube man cant understand music. YouTube mans are more in numbers than elmans.

Edit
Sunl missed that it was posted in /r/tas

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PostPosted: 22 Nov 2015, 13:15 
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pro video:)
checked just in case, if any part was done by me - prolly not:/ except that pipe form 32tt

offtopic: moposite wasnt accesible for 3 days for me, i wonder why

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PostPosted: 22 Nov 2015, 18:22 
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milagros wrote:
offtopic: moposite wasnt accesible for 3 days for me, i wonder why

viewtopic.php?f=7&p=245042#p245042

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PostPosted: 3 Dec 2015, 16:05 
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I really don't like mans calling this "random". This sort of makes Elma into a new game, where normally long and complicated levs are sometimes simple in the new gameplay's terms, and vice versa. You have to look at levs and the game completely differently so the first glances don't make any sense to those who are not interested and haven't tried to find TAS styles. It's very complicated but clearly, calling it random is totally inaccurate and an insult to the project.

Goad job, entertaining video even though am too nab to understand 95% of what's going on.

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PostPosted: 3 Dec 2015, 16:30 
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After watchare again I understood a bit more, still not much. Maybe 0,29% understoodness.
Though, I have not read the essay about all the tricks yet.

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2015, 11:52 
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Random bump! hahja!!! Here's a tldr version of the entire essay as far as i understand it:

-Things are mostly very simple if you dont go into details (and you shouldnt really)
-You need to learn like 4 things to be able to understand 90% of the vid.
-Driving normally is too slow, so you need to start a bug, and then somehow make it go on and on. That's 2 things already.
-The lower your fps is, the bigger the bugs are and the worse your grip is. And vice versa. That's the third thing.
-If you move too fast, you can clip through ground. That's the 4th and the last thing.

So let's go point by point.

1) There's only one way to start moving megafast: squeeze your wheel into the center of the bike. After that the wheel shoots out superfast and either hits the ground (thus pushing you outwards from it and creating a bugbounce), or just flies in some random direction. Both can be useful. bene refers to them as bugbounce and bugpop respectively.

2)There are couple ways to continue moving megafast:

-If you need to keep direction of movement: Avoid balazs' restrictions that crash the game, while trying to preserve as much speed as you can. How? Simply increase fps a bit to make bugs and stretches weaker. And then lower your fps again briefly. Repeat ad nauseam. This is why bike often gets seizures in the video when it's flying through clear skies and stuff, - it's twitching and spazzing around like an epileptic patient. That's cuz major fps changes happen back and forth.

-If you need to change direction of your movement: This never happens in normal play, so it's a bit harder to understand. But it's the most important thing that will make understanding the vid much much easier. So, imagine yourself playing int07 normally and driving in the bowl and then jumping up and spinning like crazy in the air! Fun!!! Everyone's done it many times. You spin like an idiot in the air and your wheels stretch out super far, and then at some point you fall down and touch ground, hopefully with your wheels. Nothing happens after that..... that is, if you're not b0ne. But what if you somehow manage to stretch one wheel much further than the other one and then hit the ground? That's when the magic happens - for some reason, you get a weird bounce effect (seen at 0:33 in the additional "tricks" video in b0nepost). This can dramatically change the direction of your movement, AND also give you more speed. Once you understand this trick, it becomes relatively easy to notice. The most important point here is that you don't need to wheelpress to bounce this way. So it can be done anywhere as long as you're stretched. This avoids a lot of unnecessary slowdowns.


So that's it. Of course, devil is in the details and there are a lot of barely noticeable but important stuff going on everywhere (like pushing wheels through the ground, changing fps to make them stuck there and then using this improvised hang as a means to travel in the desired direction). And also there's the survival part, yeah. You can die and/or crash. Easily. Everywhere.


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2015, 13:02 
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I read and understood, thanks =)

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2015, 19:34 
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Here's the tl;dr version that anp forgot to include:

Four important things:
1) Bug
2) Go on
3) Lower fps = stronger bugs
4) Move fast → clip through ground
One important information: ez but impsy if you're not bene

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2015, 22:07 
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Hehe, sorry for an overly long tldr. The goal was to make everything easy to read and process, so i couldn't sacrifice too many words in order to avoid ambiguity!!1 It would still be better if b0ne made a lev-by-lev commentary though >:D


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2015, 23:47 
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I would also like to point out this: whenever you get int error on low fps from hanging like a wacco and thus strething your thing 1km, you also get what bene does in his magic stuff all the time. the bike twitches in a retarded-looking way and mostly int error happens, sometimes in rare cases you get that but dont int error.

then you just need a volt to get your wheel many bike lenghts to certai ndirections, like in a lot of the flower-pickings.

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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2015, 08:17 
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I wonder if bene can comment on this: how many times approximately did you get an internal error so you had to restart elma and load rec again? :twisted:

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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2015, 09:01 
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What is done is i play a few frames leading up to internal error. Then before crash i go to high fps to prevent crash and wheel twitches.
Stretch bugbounce is same fps switch in reverse. So you go low fps when wheel touches polygon or just before depending. Play frames leading up to crash, which might cause bugbounce if the crash wheel direction is correct. At least this is best explanation i could think of. No idea what actually happens.

Because you are borderline crash all the time you crash all the time. Especially considering you need to pause and unpause for a few frames and get correct frame. Try unpressing and pressing F9 in a few frames then determine if good frame and F3 or F4. Then do it again for entire 10s lev. Usually playing 0,05 segments. Too many frames and crash, too few frames and bad have to load, too low fps and crash, too high fps and bad have to load. Its super tedious. Ofc all fixable with frame advance during playing better tools.
Impossible to say how many crashes i had to endure but maybe 5 per biketwitch average?

Lev by lev commentary is very orka to write cause i suck at writing. Nice tldr anpe.

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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2015, 09:31 
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my tldr is : it was fun to try to find earliest bug spot. It was not fun to stretch bug not because it was frustrating to crash all the time, but because it felt like always ez poss much faster, except ez much faster was always more improbable. example: just make biggest stretch to flower from start in headbanger, it's improbable due to distance, but possible in theory (actually not proven possible)

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PostPosted: 8 May 2016, 18:06 
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All recs, dats, state.dat and stats.txt from this was an fun project njoy.
http://kopasite.net/up/b4op2w115mujuqo/ ... roject.rar

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PostPosted: 8 May 2016, 21:23 
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bene wrote:
All recs, dats, state.dat and stats.txt from this was an fun project njoy.
http://kopasite.net/up/b4op2w115mujuqo/ ... roject.rar

contribution GAA

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PostPosted: 9 May 2016, 16:16 
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Tigro wrote:
bene wrote:
All recs, dats, state.dat and stats.txt from this was an fun project njoy.
http://kopasite.net/up/b4op2w115mujuqo/ ... roject.rar

contribution GAA
Really? With consideration of the huge effort that must've been put into this, I'm quite unimpressed, like many others. I only managed to watch the speedrun video half way through, because as someone nicely described it, it was just a bunch of randomness.

Isn't GAA contribution about adding value to the scene? I can't see how this project does that by exploiting bugs...

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PostPosted: 9 May 2016, 16:26 
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That has been argued much over. Hev you read through this tropic? Judging by the "just a bunch of randomness" coment I'm gonna guess nat.

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PostPosted: 9 May 2016, 17:11 
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Yes, I did. That was the quickest way to summarise what my eyes saw in the video, despite everything that I've read in this tropic. Anyway, didn't manage to catch up with all of lauta yet ;)

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PostPosted: 9 May 2016, 18:41 
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In my experience you are correct, making a finished ride leaned more towards random than controlled riding. It was more like go from spot A to spot B as fast as possible, but nobody could really say how exactly it will happen, what will happen on the way osv. There was no really minor tricks at all(edit: ok there was a lot of minor tricks to the bug stretching), only routeplanning, figuring out the fastest way to do a bug and one major trick, bug stretching. This is probably why it's such a disliked run. It's somewhat similar to redesigning every lev into a pipe. Removes a lot of the game's 'natural' richness i guess.

But of course there was quite a learning curve for making these, for example at the end bene was a fukin bug jedi master guru cuz he practiced a lot. Also there wased lots of small tricks and knowledge bits and other stufs that bene has already explained in his posts and trick videos. I think those were quite interesting. All kinds of weird details you just will never learn without use of tools, for example you dont need that much speed to get head through wall if you use 30 fps and turn in the correct frame.

Ironically this is by far the fastest speedrun of elma and the only category with clear rules where no segment is controversial, but still seems to be the least liked speedrun.

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PostPosted: 9 May 2016, 19:55 
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Zweq wrote:
Ironically this is by far the fastest speedrun of elma and the only category with clear rules where no segment is controversial, but still seems to be the least liked speedrun.
Maybe because normal people can't relate to it? Whenever I watch EDQ (#265) or any pro rec (including your insanely crazy rec with two hongy spins at the start) my eyes bleed and heart pounds with excitement, because I can imagine I'm driving that bike, and then it does something completely super, and I'm all woooo that's so cool! Wish I could do that! Whereas watching this one I felt more like I was watching a speedrun of a game I've never played before -> 0 fucks given.

Still, not trying to underappreciate the skill/knowledge/time involved. In the original post I just expressed why I thought it was a bit weird to suggest it for GAA Contribution. Some other award (slesk) defo.

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PostPosted: 10 May 2016, 11:04 
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You gais still arguing about this?? Dame.

I think there is less randomness than zweq thinks.

Some things that feel random are that way because it is so different from normal playing. But I think much of it can be controlled if you play for an unreal amount of time. The amount I learned about playing with bugs for this short time (several hours per day for 4 months :D) should be proof for some of that.
The biggest thing that feels random to me still is that stretch bugbounces sometimes just don't work, but that maybe is comparable to normal bounces you can't just brake on a polygon and bounce anywhere it needs control. Finding the exact details for this is extremely hard during bugs but I think it is possible.
Another consistent randomness was the bike state after the initial bug which I could never control at all since zweq did (almost) all of them. So every bug starts out with random funing figuring out how the state is and changing it towards point B. If the initial bug state can be controlled much could be improved.
Ofc to an outsider that did not play or understand bug stretching details I can see why it would appear completely or mostly random or to some random 40+tt man like Pawq that has never seen the bike move fast and just sees a big blur during the entire vidio.

Many of the runs were driven by just winging it, adding to the feel of randomness. Building initial speed towards point B and along the way watching where I wanted to get wheels to try for more speed using stretch bugbounces, there was never any real plan about all minor details before playing and it was never needed. All the runs in this project are just finishes with a brand new way of playing the game that is faster. There is no höyling except for a few levels, like 50/54 levels are just first finishes.
The end TT should be comparable to what a 45tt man would do in a brand new pack doing first finishes in tas, he would know the location of point A and point B but nothing about the details. Under 5 minutes TT should not be hard with better tools and time.

This project started out really interesting and finishing each of the levels had a real sense of accomplishment that kept me going. It was a refreshing view of elma. I was watching the recs like crazy afterwards and swallowed up by all kinds of fun details in them that I can no longer see or enjoy a few months after the project ended. What I still enjoy and feel like others should is the experience and knowledge that came out of this some of it even transferable to live/nonbug sl playing.

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PostPosted: 10 May 2016, 14:10 
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I've seen some annoying comments here, so maybe that's reason for my post. For me these recs are boring. I don't care how much time, effort, knowledge has been needed.

Contribution to gaa? Why not? This is something new.

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PostPosted: 10 May 2016, 17:33 
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Ok im going to post about this too. First of all, everything new in elma is needed and cool if someone has the energy to do it. To learn about bugs, moves or anything about game is always welcome and ofc im glad too be able to see all.
Now, i remember watching video and i only could pay atention until tunnel terror, i thought "wtf, boring" and quited video. The part i really dont like is watching head through every wall and finishing levels.
Dont get me wrong, i appreciate your work guys (8

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PostPosted: 10 May 2016, 20:18 
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Just want to clarify im kinda commenting from "3rd person" despite my minor involvement in the run. I guess I'm just trying to promote the run overly much just to be the only man defending bene. I guess you can only understand how crazy 5s finish on framework is after trying it hard yourself first. Sure there's probably 20 boring not-so-optimized runs that I don't really orka watch either, but some flawless diamonds here and there.

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PostPosted: 10 May 2016, 22:38 
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This was in top10 for gaa 2015 the year it was helded dunno why mans are suggesting it in 2016 maybe tigro meant sharing of all recs/dats as contribution?

In case anyone is wondering the very good impressive cool even zweq said wow runs are:
35 Many tricks where discovered while making this rec, very progress, very cool mix of normal playing and bug playing, very fun route skipping entire right side of level osv.
41 Coolest bugspot across all recs coupled with multy grabbing flower with one wheel and apples with other wheel, extremely unlikely, very effort rec osv.
40 Extremely fast rec for a quite complex level. It is not easy to grab all apples the way it is done and then almost instantly get flower, very luck making this rec osv.

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PostPosted: 10 May 2016, 22:43 
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bene wrote:
This was in top10 for gaa 2015 the year it was helded dunno why mans are suggesting it in 2016 maybe tigro meant sharing of all recs/dats as contribution?

yeah, basically. I just wanted to thank you for your effort and sharing all the stuff.
Didn't know it would spark such a debate... :roll:

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PostPosted: 11 May 2016, 08:07 
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Please tell me how the run at 35 works as it seemed to me that the bike was a mile away from the rightest apple of the lev.

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PostPosted: 11 May 2016, 08:11 
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The first 3 apples are hooked bugs, if you don't know hooked bug I explained it in big post a few posts ago.
So the bike is a mile away from the 3 rightest apples in the level cause we never grab them.

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