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 Post subject: Paprika records
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2006, 07:03 
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Since coding a new Records section is getting closer we decided to open a topic for public idea discussion. It's much easier for us to implement the ideas before the main coding than after it's ready. I didn't use much time to structure the ideas so don't bother of that.

Uploading new times
- upload a state.dat and select the name you use in it
- get a preview window of your new times where you can add replays next to times and select whether the replay will be public or private (accessable only you, admins and maybe some group of players selected by yourself), you don't have to upload replays at all (the replays will be a proof for legal times)
- you can modify the driven dates of the times (back to one week or something like that)
- no times are remoted so when you drive new best times and upload them the database grows for that level for you
- entire top10 is added to database

Getting personal report
- after the upload is done you receive a personal report of how your places improved in lists (these reports will be visible for other players as well), did you improve in world total times list, got more TRs etc

Viewing times
- you can select what's the period of showing new times as highlighted, options could be 1 day, 1 week, 1 month or something like that
- each time has a validity indicator: public replay, private replay, no replay; if the time has a public replay it can be taken as 98% legal, if private replay as 90% etc.
- you have several ways to view times: sorted by levels, players, teams, nations, cities, continents, dates
- times have nice iconds next to them if they are: WR, PR (personal), TR (team), FINR (finnish record) etc, EUR (european record) etc, SWR (seasonal wr), SPR (seasonal personal record), SFINR, SEUR etc
- some lists are more detailed than others

Different groups
- players can be sorted by different groups and they will be at least: team, city, nationality. maybe also continent, friends group and customizable groups

Statistics and history
- everything
- graphs

Average times
- because we allow top10 we can make average times as well
- also averages of top20, top100, top1000 will be possible to have IF the player has uploaded enough times per level, let's see who will be the first having 1000 warm up finishes?

Extra
- multi times will be added as well
- seosonal times: will be reset every 1. Jan. because we allow several state.dats this is possible. if you want to get seasonal times but cant beat your own top10 you can always create a new state.dat and start playing to it. if you get accidently better times to this state.dat they can be merged
- state.dat back-up, the system creates one for you
- you can compare wrs to team records, to personal seasonal records, to everything
- we will convert old times from old records system to new
- not sure how WRs should be handled, maybe updated only once per week as it's now. the system would hide them until the update time.
- team/city records must be driven when belonging to that group, so if you change teams your old times are not moved to new team but you must drive new ones (if wanted to team recods)
- frozen times: season records will be frozen after the season is over, if you got 2004 season WR, no one can beat it in 2005


Ok, now your time to give feedback. And all this will be very hard to code and get working but still fairly easy to use. Don't expect much for near future (let's say one year).

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Last edited by Abula on 25 Nov 2007, 20:54, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2006, 07:18 
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woah, this is a very nice, very useful idea. i hope it's ready soon.
keep up :)

Abula wrote:
who will be the first having 1000 warm up finishes?

more like, who will be the first to get 1000 world class times on all levels? am i right? huh? :o

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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2006, 07:21 
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Leeland wrote:
Abula wrote:
who will be the first having 1000 warm up finishes?

more like, who will be the first to get 1000 world class times on all levels? am i right? huh? :o

Won't happen in this decade at least.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2006, 14:29 
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Very nice. It would be very good!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2006, 16:24 
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Added something about frozen times.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2006, 21:01 
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So u say if we wanna get a top100 in one lvl... we need to make new state.dats and play a top10 on it.. and upload it.. and do it again and again ad again... until u have some 500*.dat's in ure elma folder?

or u mean.. if i upload my current state.dat it will be my top10.. and next time i upload my state it addes to that old top10 list?

hope u understand what i just wrote :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2006, 02:31 
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Practically yes (the first one) but you don't have to save the .dats locally. Once the times are in Moposite database the state.dats can be generated there, if needed.

However, this state.dat reset thing might not be the best idea. We need to think it more. Eventhough seasonal times sound so nice (state.dat is compulsory there, but once in a year would be tolerable).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2006, 22:24 
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All in all, the idea of making the records section more flexible sounds like one of the best things of the new paprika improvements so far, and that is really something, because the new players section is quite amazing aswell.

I hope vk can cope with all those ideas you wrote down, they seem like a lot and hard to code.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2006, 14:06 
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I think this is a max idea :)

But I don't think I'll have the spirit to hoyl sach.... :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2006, 21:53 
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would be nice to see, how many records you have on top10, top20 etc.. ez make some statistics?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2006, 12:52 
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I want to see- best times in a lev OVERALL players ENTIRE top tens included in the TOP 100! So maybe a player has several times from their top ten in the top 100, so we can compare if someone (like me) would.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2006, 23:06 
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bah you could just cheat hōyled top-10

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 1 Nov 2007, 07:40 
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Is it only me or does the Records section slowly become as obsolete as the WR table in elastomania.com?

I mean, I don't even care if the new system is not ready yet (who am I fooling, it won't ever be ready) - just update the goddamn times, even in the oldschool Records page. A gap of 5 months between biweekly record updates is just irrational for an active scene. Where's all the competition for "best kuski in the world"? The rivalry between countries? The personal satisfaction in pwning some countrymates or advancing through top100 lists? It's all fading out. Competition is fading out.

With all due respect, if the moposite is incapable of maintaining such a list, then it shall be moved to some other place, where it'll be taken care of and updated regularly.

And please spare me all those "be patient" replys. My comment here is all about not having to be patient for a simple thing such as records update.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 1 Nov 2007, 11:41 
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WkE wrote:
Is it only me or does the Records section slowly become as obsolete as the WR table in elastomania.com?

I mean, I don't even care if the new system is not ready yet (who am I fooling, it won't ever be ready) - just update the goddamn times, even in the oldschool Records page. A gap of 5 months between biweekly record updates is just irrational for an active scene. Where's all the competition for "best kuski in the world"? The rivalry between countries? The personal satisfaction in pwning some countrymates or advancing through top100 lists? It's all fading out. Competition is fading out.

With all due respect, if the moposite is incapable of maintaining such a list, then it shall be moved to some other place, where it'll be taken care of and updated regularly.

And please spare me all those "be patient" replys. My comment here is all about not having to be patient for a simple thing such as records update.

fukkin well said

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 1 Nov 2007, 16:07 
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Well there is other sites already, sites such as http://vk0.dk/elmatimes.php are pretty much as good, with national tt lists ect. Ppl just need to start using the same one(s) and remember to update their times.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 1 Nov 2007, 16:34 
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I think for tt update stats compare site better than all others. State.dat upload is fine and useless.http://stats.elastomania.ru/ Also i would be happy too when moposite refresh.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 1 Nov 2007, 17:39 
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Come on Kopa and Labs, cant compare with an out of date elma page (ok Moposite is this now) but Moposite is Moposite.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 1 Nov 2007, 19:31 
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Sla wrote:
Moposite is Moposite.


i say we just sit tight until this new self-service site like "stats.elastomania.whateverthefuckitis" comes on cos it will be sweeeet... pretty sure the moposite is just as much part of elma as those red apples and the flower...



... and the motorbike man haha

p.s be patient :lol:

p.p.s just jokes settle down :oops:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 1 Nov 2007, 20:03 
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elmasite is good for comparing times with stats and wrs. would be better if more ppl would submit times, cause then you would have more guys to compare times with. :0

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2 Nov 2007, 00:06 
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I agree with most of what's said above though we all live with elma as a hobby. So - it's easy to see why their might be a slow progress. But since moposite has recieved A LOT of donations I can't see anything that justifies THIS delay. It's a shame and I honestly think that those who have donated should get their money back.

Elastomania might be quite a (for some HUGE) social resource - but we all began to play for the fun in competing with better times.. I don't give a fuck wether kuski gallery or some dictionary is finished or not.. Most people do visit Moposite for the records and to download and compete on great levels.

Fix that please, I really hate to see the page deteriorating. You've created this phenomenon with moposite intentionally, you really can't deny that and I've said this before: There are a lot of people here who like to contribute. Don't just let it slip. Is it really that hard? Do you have to master Finish? (ok - that was the Ironic part).

But it's all shatefak and strange updates..

My opinions..

edit: and mila - stop being such stupid and keep it on topic. Everybody loves you for your contributions.

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Last edited by Crazy on 2 Nov 2007, 21:40, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2 Nov 2007, 01:19 
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Totally agree with Crazy.

Records should be priority #1. I don't think so many people have read the glossary and all those knowledge articles (though quite interesting). Most people (like me) just love to compare statistics about records and their placement in the world (comparing with others and stuff).

Only one manual update until the new system is done would be very satisfying and would make the whole scene gain some patience.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2 Nov 2007, 14:31 
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i believe its pretty hard to do any stuff for years, no matter if you have time for that or not, there isn't always time for development and its kinda annoying to do updates on old versions
thats the case of moposite, ballelma, ... it's a hobby for everyone, you can't expect everybody to do everything on time
delay may become months or years easily

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2 Nov 2007, 14:53 
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mila - thats exactly why someone active and motivated should take care of the records section. Of course I don't expect that a specific someone will manage these lists forever, it's against human nature. This is a job for a frequently-rotating crew. And now is the time to rotate this crew, to give the job to someone who's ambitious and has some free time.

I know Abula is working on all kinds of future plans for paprika, but it doesn't mean that everything else has to freeze in the meanwhile.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2 Nov 2007, 16:22 
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damez need to find someone skilled and motivated to do the rest of ez updates for ballelma

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 5 Nov 2007, 17:21 
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We have found one new potential guy: Klaus. He has gotten an access to SVN repository a few weeks ago, hopefully he will understand the system eventually. It's not a easy job to step in a project of this kind.

The main reason for lack of records updates in the old system is that people are not sending in their states. There are some now so I can update the lists this week.

About the donatios: money is needed just to run the site. We are not making updates or develop the site against money. For those we have our jobs.

I'm terrible sorry it's taking so much time but what can I do? I'm not lazy if you wanted to know that. When you are making web sites 12h day for normal job and school it's a tough decission to select: sport / social life / Moposite. But be sure that I have chose and will choose occasionally Moposite too.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 6 Nov 2007, 23:07 
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yes, i really understand you, Lassi Heikkinen.

But are you thinking about getting your TT under 40 too?? ;d

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 7 Nov 2007, 02:20 
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Infrequent updates are what make the Moposite successful. And I mean that in the longevity sense as much as the financial. Nobody in the Moposite team has ever for one second asserted that there is any democratic element to the operation (best example: SveinR doctoring KOM polls at his discretion), and anybody under that impression is ill-informed. So that invalidates the premise of this pathetic argument from the outset.

But more importantly, the simple fact is they can't afford to update it often. Not because it costs too much money, but because it costs too much credibility. If they kept the Records page up-to-date, along with the Articles, the Glossary, the Replays, etc. the entire scene itself would gather a dangerous momentum. People like dz and Karlis would not be pleased. For the ultra-cautious Finnish mentality to be appeased, progress must come at a very conservative rate. To imply that one should disturb this equilibrium is to jeopardize the apathetic essence that has been the elixir of the scene.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 7 Nov 2007, 09:13 
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SHUT THE FUCK UP CUNT.

The average human cannot register (in one go) a sentence with more than 4 adjectives.

That aside, you have a point: I'll sum it up.

"Infrequent updates = good"

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 Post subject: other sites
PostPosted: 7 Nov 2007, 10:29 
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Excuse me for some advertising, but recently Maska completed job of translating elastonania.club site into english version, so i think that everybody who want to update his times immeadetly and to see automaticly generated statistics could easily register on http://club.elastomania.ru/eng/
So, welcome =)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 9 Nov 2007, 09:44 
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[quote="Abula"

The main reason for lack of records updates in the old system is that people are not sending in their states. There are some now so I can update the lists this week.

[/quote]

Don't get me wrong, im absolutely patient, but i'd just like to point out the reason for this.

the main reason for lack of states sent in is because people don't bother - why send in your state when it won't get updated anyways?

we need something like Skintatious to run records, fully automated system =P

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PostPosted: 9 Nov 2007, 20:14 
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SmaXa wrote:
we need something like Skintatious to run records, fully automated system =P

and i guess that's what they're actually so busy with...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2007, 21:58 
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Question: will you transfer all the existing data from the old (current) records section to the new one?

I mean, thats a lot of retired players :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2007, 22:10 
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Quote:
- we will convert old times from old records system to new


Read...

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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2010, 19:38 
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Sounds all fancy in the first post, but all I really want for starters is the core features. Uploading state, getting TT-list and top10s. It has already been done in for example stats.elastomania.ru. I know you (Abula) is close to graduation so I'm not expecting you to take a look at this right now but damn, it has been what, 4 years now? It's killing the internalscene :x Only WR-players get recognition once in a while (WR-updates are quite rare as well), others can't see their progress and orka hoyl in the dark.

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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2010, 20:00 
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Totally agree to John, i wanted to be in that world TT list since i started playing elma. I worked hard to climb my way up in the list and finally when i had good enough to place myself there i never got my times updated, i recall sending in maybe 4 times?
Gave up many years ago now though.
Now i can get some attention, if not records are updated 1 month after i send in so it is already beaten by someone else at next update.
Please work on this site and keep it up-to-date, would indeed be better for internalist-world!

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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2010, 20:58 
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I read this entire topic, I've never been worrying about this before because I've not been playing internals so much. Recently though I gave myself a goal to make 39 tt, but that's not important here:

I agree with almost everything which has been said in this topic. Abula and the rest of you working on this, I am willing to wait another four years, as long as you are sure it will be done. It's the not knowing that is eating at me. You guys put it so nicely. An active game need it's active website, quick! Hoyling in the dark might make us great bats but it won't show us the aristocats!

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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2010, 21:14 
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ABULA = PLATINI

anyone got teh?

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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2010, 18:27 
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abruzzi wrote:
ABULA = PLATINI

anyone got teh?

Used to be good player and cared about the scene and now is indeed famous, but actually does nothing? no offence, just thinking.

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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 7 Aug 2010, 11:29 
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Posts: 4074
Location: Helsinki, Finland
I know this and I'm sorry. I feel very disappointed at myself but what can I do? I simply don't have time anymore.

I'm pretty sure I'm one of those people who are most disappointed at the situation. I don't want to lose the records scene etc. They are important to me.

I'm moving to other town this month and might have to quit my day-job so theoretically I will have time. But on the second hand I need another job to earn money for livings. To be honest I would need salary to work for Moposite. That's is sad but true.

At this situation I try to update Records once in while and also move stuff from old Moposite to new one. Unfortunately even that seems to be too hard. Coding PHP/SQL records system is a lot of work.

At the moment my visio of the Moposite is this:
- somehow integrate old times, levels and replays with EOL (or other cool systems) so no need to manually update them anymore (I don't know if this is possible...)
- simplify Paprika: keep News, Community, Stuff
- arrange meetings again

If that could be done, I guess we would be very happy. Maybe one-year full-time working would be needed? I have coded PHP for last 1.5 years in work so I have some skills myself too now.

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Single total time: 40:02,71 (104.) | Multi total time: 24:42,40 | WCup3: 52. | WCup4: 8. | WCup5: 12. | WCup6: 91. | WCup7: 44. | Team: [FM] | Kuski of April 2002


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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 7 Aug 2010, 12:21 
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Joined: 28 Nov 2002, 15:54
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of course you have time

anyway, theres many enthusiastic kuskis who are decent or at least ok at the PHP, MySQL + other shit like HTML, CSS. Either you recruit these kuskis to work together and remake moposite or you officially announce that records will never be automatic on moposite so these enthusiastic kuskis can start their own project/site

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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 7 Aug 2010, 13:46 
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I can provide old data yes. But I think we shouldn't have 10 different sites but just a few at max. If there is someone willing to do the job (big one), he can contact me at lassi at pulu dot org.

Firsts step would be making the design how to integrate EOL data with old data. There should a way to upload WRs in old way too but EOL records could have some "proven" icon next to them. Of course I would like to see the Records in Moposite because it's still the main site.

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Single total time: 40:02,71 (104.) | Multi total time: 24:42,40 | WCup3: 52. | WCup4: 8. | WCup5: 12. | WCup6: 91. | WCup7: 44. | Team: [FM] | Kuski of April 2002


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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 23:11 
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Kopaka is converting old data to new system. After the data is there and the system is running somehow, we can start thinking the features.

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Single total time: 40:02,71 (104.) | Multi total time: 24:42,40 | WCup3: 52. | WCup4: 8. | WCup5: 12. | WCup6: 91. | WCup7: 44. | Team: [FM] | Kuski of April 2002


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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 23:49 
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That's very nice to hear, Thank you for the effort.

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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 07:35 
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Moposite fighting!

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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 19 Sep 2010, 20:49 
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Kuski
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Joined: 7 Jun 2007, 20:35
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Heh, I found about this today, so Im to late. But doesn't matter if the new system is comming up in near future anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2010, 01:14 
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Location: Luleå, Sweden
The update came earlier than I expected... me like! Good to hear the new system might be up fairly soon too. Props to Kopaka for taking on such a project. The scene is supporting you fully dude :)

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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 9 Jan 2011, 20:58 
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Some bugs so far:

A russian (Mika) is in the swedish TT list.

Lots of missing logos on the WR table.

My full team history should be "ElmaCo", "AC", "WNO" in that order.

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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 9 Jan 2011, 21:53 
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007, 01:05
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My teams history is none, [TR] then [SV]
I don't know why but my team has never been listed in Teams page, only secret url works: http://paprika.moposite.com/team/SV

I'm not in Canadian records for some reasons. Yes, I sent my state.dat in earlier records updates.

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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 9 Jan 2011, 23:02 
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Bjorn and bjorn2 are obviously the same

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 Post subject: Re: Paprika records
PostPosted: 9 Jan 2011, 23:06 
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Kuski
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Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
Code:
[19:30:14] <@Abula> many little things not working but we'll fix big ones first
[19:30:27] <@Abula> they can be reported of course, im writing down

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