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 Post subject: Publishing WR replays
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 21:47 
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Would it be a good idea to add a new rule to submitting new WR times: "By submitting your replay you agree that the replay can be published after 5 years after the WR table is updated." (or 7-10 years?)

In addition we could write news about the old WRs that they can be published in 5 (7-10?) years too UNLESS the player informs us and explicitically denies the publishing of his replay.

At the moment we are not going to publish anything but we think that this decision should be done now, when players are still around. WR replays are probably the most valuable piece of art of the Elma scene and it would be shame to leave them unpublished forever.

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 22:00 
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Abula wrote:
Would it be a good idea to add a new rule to submitting new WR times: "By submitting your replay you agree that the replay can be published after 5 years after the WR table is updated." (or 7-10 years?)

In addition we could write news about the old WRs that they can be published in 5 (7-10?) years too UNLESS the player informs us and explicitically denies the publishing of his replay.

At the moment we are not going to publish anything but we think that this decision should be done now, when players are still around. WR replays are probably the most valuable piece of art of the Elma scene and it would be shame to leave them unpublished forever.

+1000000000000000000000000000
but pls 5 years -> 1 week

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 22:08 
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hm, this is an interesting topic, and I've thought about this already. in Trackmania for example, replays are automatically public, when you submit them. on the other hand this "WTF, HOW DID HE MAKE THAT TIME" feeling is very cool, for the one who sees the table and for the one who makes the wr (i guess :P). your solution seems nice, but i think 5 years is too much. I'm not talking about some 1 week like pawq, but as far as i know every elma WR got beaten within 5 years, and i wouldn't find it extremely interesting now to watch some 14.07 WR rec on Warm up or 1.29 on Apple Harvest. but I'll wait what WR-makers like zweq, john, bjorn, kazan, talli... have to say about this topic.

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 22:08 
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I'm in.
3 years would be ok too, it's still a really long time.

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 22:09 
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can't wait another 2 years 11 months to see zweq's tunnel and bounce back ;o :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 22:10 
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i would be for 2 years... it's really rare any wr stays that long (except stini's enigma atm) in the table

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 22:14 
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6 months would be ok imo.
5 years is way too much, people wont play elma in 2015 :(

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 22:15 
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2-3 years seems reasonable.

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 22:15 
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jblaze wrote:
people wont play elma in 2015 :(

ppl've played for 10 years. why do you think they won't in 5 more years?

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 22:17 
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checked old table 2 years ago http://www.moposite.com/records_elma_wrs.php?table=290
maybe 3 years is actually better:)

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 22:22 
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hmm.. dunno really, i just guess so ;)
ontopic: Noone can really force rec from WR-owner, if he doesnt want to show it.

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 22:25 
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If they don't share a rec to be shown in 5 years (or whatever period of time it would be decided to be), they don't get the WR.

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 22:27 
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ez 3 years - http://www.moposite.com/records_elma_wrs.php?table=270

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 22:29 
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Maybe even publish beaten WRs after 6 months?

Let's say I have my WTH until table #320 where some fukker beats teh. Tick tock, clock starts ticking and in 6 months my rec will be published. If fukker's WR is still WR after 2 years it will be published too.

Beaten WRs - 6 months
Standing WRs - 2 years

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 23:02 
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I think 5y is minimum. In Finland a normal copyright stuff is valid for 70y after the death of the copywriter. Published WRs should be interesting only in historic perspect. Players can still publish their own replays if they want. Most of the WRs would get published before the 5y limit anyway.

I came with the idea when organizing my WR rec folder. I have all the replays except viewtopic.php?f=2&t=748 I've got 1194 now. 198 missing I guess.

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 23:42 
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I kinda approve of this idea. 5 years or more would be acceptable, since the period of durating WRs extends more and more.
Also I think players whose WRs will stay for 5 years won't deny the publishing of their replays mostly... They will rather share them much earlier themselves, I believe. And if they do, so we have no choice but to let them to take their recs to the grave. :)

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 23:56 
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It removes the possibility of finding an insanely creative WR style that will never be found by anyone else...

...but I guess that's not how it goes in Elma.

</naub> :)

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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 07:35 
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John wrote:
Maybe even publish beaten WRs after 6 months?
If a team comes up with a sick style, and one team member beats another, the style will be shared way earlier than they'd want. Just something to have in mind.

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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 09:58 
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Just because a WR has been beated, doesn't mean there's not anything unique in it that he doesn't wanna share.

Back when I played internals I didn't even wanna share my nab replays :)

Anyway I think five years is good.

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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 11:48 
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It would definitely get internals moving tho. But yeah, you guys are right.

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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 11:51 
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Igge wrote:
John wrote:
Maybe even publish beaten WRs after 6 months?
If a team comes up with a sick style, and one team member beats another, the style will be shared way earlier than they'd want. Just something to have in mind.

Igge produced an intelligent comment. o/

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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 15:35 
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i was mongoing with 1 week ofc, but i think 5 years is insane. 2-3 is a max for me, guys hell wake up! 5 fucking years!!

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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 17:42 
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Agree with Abula, 5 years is great. This is just to secure the historic value of old wrs!

Ofc many wll be spread before but a real archive to access old wrs would be great.

Its not to speed up internal playing but more to secure the future of scene and dont let hard work go to waste.

I also think it would be good to ask all old wrholders (older than 5 years, if that is whats decided) if they mind there recs in archive. All saved in ONE place is great... hard for us non-organized ppl to know where all recs are.. I dont even think I have any of my internal recs. (maybe 3 or 4.. but dont even know that)

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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 20:26 
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ramone told just what I meant!

But I would go a little bit further to publish all old replays which are NOT (clearly) denied to publish because we won't be able to reach many of the old players. I guess 99% of old players would approve to publish. Let's hope no one of those 1% will notice anything :P. We wouldn't be breaking any real legal rights when publishing without permission. Actually we have never officially promised to not publish, I think.

As long as I remember there is nothing max interesting or secret in replays older than 5y. But that might change when WR development cools down. The updater of the WR replay archive can decide not to publish old replays if he thinks they are still valuable. But at least he would have the opportunity to publish them.

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2010, 02:31 
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so basically this is a good excuse to publish a lot of those old wrs by ChampI0n and King Kong and whoever else way back in the day. i think its pretty cool, it would be awesome to see the way styles have further been improved since then, and also im sure the amateur internalists such as myself could use some of these older styles if the new ones are too hard.

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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2010, 17:28 
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I suggest we publish every WR replay out there so we finally get to 34 and everyone is happy. :)

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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2010, 13:48 
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I think 5 years is too long because it gives opportunity to wr-holders not to do anything, not to challenge yourself. But of course there must be some "mystery" time behind every wr when all guessing the style. That's why I think one year is optimal. 2 years tops or maybe 6 month if wr-holders want so.

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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2010, 14:08 
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4 years seems quite reasonable to me. I don't think we should go under 3 years for this rule and over 5 years would be too long.

I mean, wr holders can still share their wrs if they feel like it and it's not like they ever had the duty to share their wrs publicly.

This basically won't change anything beside the fact that we'll be able to enjoy some good old replays. I like that.

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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2010, 15:18 
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5 years or more is great, the nostalgia feeling you get will be quite sick when some wr rec is published:

"I remember when this time popped up on the wr table, everybody was in awe! Now I actually get to see the drive, omgwtfbbq!"


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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2010, 17:23 
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NightMar wrote:
I think 5 years is too long because it gives opportunity to wr-holders not to do anything, not to challenge yourself. But of course there must be some "mystery" time behind every wr when all guessing the style. That's why I think one year is optimal. 2 years tops or maybe 6 month if wr-holders want so.

i'm for it. i remember zweq telling he would share his bounce back next year in gaa2008, he didnt, now second year comes and seeing this rec now would be awesome, later... just boring

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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2010, 18:05 
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Pawq wrote:
NightMar wrote:
I think 5 years is too long because it gives opportunity to wr-holders not to do anything, not to challenge yourself. But of course there must be some "mystery" time behind every wr when all guessing the style. That's why I think one year is optimal. 2 years tops or maybe 6 month if wr-holders want so.
i'm for it. i remember zweq telling he would share his bounce back next year in gaa2008, he didnt, now second year comes and seeing this rec now would be awesome, later... just boring

I'm not sure you're understanding the purpose of this new rule (or is it me who's not understanding). The goal of this rule is not to share replays which are still current neither is it to help getting the internal total time lower. This rule is for posterity, for the noble art of elma to live forever, not for your immediate consumption neither for personal gratification.

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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2010, 18:38 
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The_BoneLESS wrote:
Pawq wrote:
NightMar wrote:
I think 5 years is too long because it gives opportunity to wr-holders not to do anything, not to challenge yourself. But of course there must be some "mystery" time behind every wr when all guessing the style. That's why I think one year is optimal. 2 years tops or maybe 6 month if wr-holders want so.
i'm for it. i remember zweq telling he would share his bounce back next year in gaa2008, he didnt, now second year comes and seeing this rec now would be awesome, later... just boring

I'm not sure you're understanding the purpose of this new rule (or is it me who's not understanding). The goal of this rule is not to share replays which are still current neither is it to help getting the internal total time lower. This rule is for posterity, for the noble art of elma to live forever, not for your immediate consumption neither for personal gratification.

we'll, we understand the purpose differently then :) Maybe because i'm relatively new to the scene i don't feel really interested in very old recs.... possibly in 3 years bounceback rec will still be a mistery or at least it will wake up some nostalgia in myself. i don't know that, for now i would like to see as many sick recs as i can :P of course my voice isn't considered anyway so im just saying things

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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2010, 22:52 
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The_BoneLESS wrote:
Pawq wrote:
NightMar wrote:
I think 5 years is too long because it gives opportunity to wr-holders not to do anything, not to challenge yourself. But of course there must be some "mystery" time behind every wr when all guessing the style. That's why I think one year is optimal. 2 years tops or maybe 6 month if wr-holders want so.
i'm for it. i remember zweq telling he would share his bounce back next year in gaa2008, he didnt, now second year comes and seeing this rec now would be awesome, later... just boring

I'm not sure you're understanding the purpose of this new rule (or is it me who's not understanding). The goal of this rule is not to share replays which are still current neither is it to help getting the internal total time lower. This rule is for posterity, for the noble art of elma to live forever, not for your immediate consumption neither for personal gratification.

Exactly like that.

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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2010, 15:16 
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I think all WRs should be published after 5 years. If person don't want it to be public, he/she should tell it, but not earlier than 4 years and 50 weeks after that WR appeared on table. The purpose of that is to see whether that WR holder still cares about it. Just my silly idea :P

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PostPosted: 1 Dec 2010, 11:34 
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what the fuck is this garbage?

5 years? who the fuck would care if their elastomania replay file is made public 5 years after its submission? just on the off chance that there exists a current or former unreleased wr holder who thinks people actually care about their accomplishment, let alone care enough to wait 5 YEARS to see it, please get over yourself.

in 5 years some of us might be married, we might even have children. these children may even be old enough to fuck. when we tuck our kids in to bed at night while conducting a routine molestation, do you think 02Ded.rec will cross our minds?

5 years is also ample time to go to university and get a degree, maybe even a Masters. do you really think the guy staying up 'til 4am working on his life changing dissertation is likely to be plagued by thoughts of how Cap managed to get such a sick ZZ time?

anyone who has put more than 5 seconds of thought into this matter is a moron.

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PostPosted: 1 Dec 2010, 11:54 
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jaytea is a stereotype follower? im disappointed

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PostPosted: 1 Dec 2010, 15:47 
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jaytea wrote:
when we tuck our kids in to bed at night while conducting a routine molestation, do you think 02Ded.rec will cross our minds?

seriously ROFLed at this

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PostPosted: 1 Dec 2010, 15:54 
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back to topic - ez publish 2 years after wr gets beaten by someone else than wr owner

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PostPosted: 1 Dec 2010, 22:24 
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Well, I've been here for 12y now. Got a degree. I'll show 02Ded.rec to my children. Elma is life.

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PostPosted: 2 Dec 2010, 01:50 
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you can't really say you've been here lately..

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PostPosted: 2 Dec 2010, 02:06 
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Laughed so hard at jaytea's post. Gold.

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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2010, 14:49 
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PostPosted: 9 Jan 2011, 22:21 
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On right margin,
http://paprika.moposite.com/records_elma_wrs.php

Quote:
...
By submitting replay files you agree that the files may be published later in the future, although not sooner than five (5) years after submitting the files.
so, now we have the answer

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PostPosted: 12 Jan 2011, 21:06 
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Not sharing a wr rec is about as charming as if Bolt censored the footage of himself making 9:58... I

ts an open competition for everyone and showing your new wr style is more like "look what I got, I bet you can't beat this" than reason to fear that you "lose" your wr, in that case you should be glad that the best time of the lev has been improved to a time you could not achieve yourself.

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PostPosted: 12 Jan 2011, 21:38 
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Honza wrote:
[...] showing your new wr style is more like "look what I got, I bet you can't beat this" than reason to fear that you "lose" your wr, in that case you should be glad that the best time of the lev has been improved to a time you could not achieve yourself.

Nobody's that selfless, unless they don't care about having WRs. After all, as you mentioned, it's a competition, people don't necessarily want to help others beat them. It really is up the the players.

If replay files were parts of the cure to cancer, I bet people would share more openly.

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PostPosted: 12 Jan 2011, 22:39 
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I personally dont insist on seeing the rec for myself, I just think that such custom as kind sharing of the best replays would advance this gaming society to maturity :roll:

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2011, 10:51 
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Showing some video is nice, but sharing the rec itself makes the style repeating too simple imo. Anyway, generate rec file from video is not that hard so in terms of eternity they are the same.

Five years in elma is the period i cannot even imagine. So i don't think such sharing may break style development. Counter-styles are developed "here-and-now", just remind Bjorn's expert sys and Ded's flat track. Would be nice to see some surprise similar to Jokke's hill legend style. Who knows, what adi hides in his framework rec? :)

I never played Across seriously but I enjoyed public best recs and it was offensively to not have ability to see WR recs without intent to beat them.

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2011, 11:41 
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"generate rec file from video" what are you tallking about???

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2011, 12:43 
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Kuski

Joined: 13 Mar 2005, 03:15
Posts: 232
Location: Kiev, Ukraine
I say about the situation when the style was shown only in video, not as .rec file. It's possible to generate .rec file for merging from video if somebody would bother to.

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2011, 13:32 
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Kuski
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Joined: 17 Aug 2002, 15:45
Posts: 1502
Location: on the roof
Possible yes but I bet it would be very shitty .rec worth nothing.

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