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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2012, 00:45 
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Kuski

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Just creating this topic in hope of getting some official statement from someone who can answer why there has been no wr update for way over a month.

Most notably those who are making wrs are loosing interest in hoyling internals when the only piece of html-table they care about that directly correlates to their motivation is never, or so rarely updated, that their wrs are being beaten before it ever became official. (I.E Spef having made Steppes wr over a month ago, now beaten by Zweq today.) and so on.

Not blaming if there is any serious reason involved or sach. Just interested in knowing what/if theres something wrong, and why. If px is too busy with life for example, maybe Kopaka can get access/permission to update the official table. If the delay is due to moposite-eol connection. Please state this, so at least people know? Whatever reason there is, cant we fix it somehow? So atleast the table gets regularily updated every week as should be scheduled.


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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2012, 01:33 
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As far as I see he doesn't have anything special going on. Just regular everyday stuff. Truly odd that he hasn't found time to update.

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2012, 02:59 
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Think back to 2007, where there was like 6 WR updates in a year or something.

For me, Weekly updates more un-normal than monthlong hiatus.

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2012, 11:29 
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Nothing to do with moposite-eol connection at least.

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2012, 13:02 
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Wrs updated already. That was torment :)

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2012, 17:05 
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it is a bit all over the place. Back when I had my wrs, it was being updated monthly so it shows that I held my wrs for only 6 or 7 tables when it should have been more like 25. Really though, doesn't matter I guess.

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PostPosted: 2 Oct 2012, 12:28 
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Schedule no more. Updates are too elastic in time :/


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PostPosted: 2 Oct 2012, 13:16 
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Automatic updates. That's what we need.

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2016, 12:48 
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Over 4 months... It's sad that no one cares to update this table anymore. Those few people who hoyled internals have probably quit because of this. At least I have and won't start again unless px gets replaced.

R.I.P. internals

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2016, 14:18 
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I didnt know there was a topic like this, i was thinking on starting it months before.
Please, as we talked on EOL, new blood on Wr Table update. Its ok if px cant do it, just let other player to do it.
WR Table not being update its a shame and ridiculous.

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2016, 15:27 
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Give bene the rights, he already has all wr recs in history of elma anyway.
I'm sure everyone would agree that bene is more than okay for doing the task, if he is up for it.

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2016, 15:56 
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I vote bene then


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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2016, 17:00 
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bene

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2016, 19:45 
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As much as I love bene, I don't think it should be someone who actively plays ints for the same reason I wouldn't want to be the updater myself. I know from experience how frustrating it is to know a new style in an int, but you can't play it yourself because you would then be spoiling that style. Also, you can never discover it on your own since you saw the rec before, so even if you would have found it you won't ever get the chance to.

Imo updater should always be someone who doesn't actively play internals, and has no intention to look for new styles etc.

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2016, 20:09 
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Kinda agree with igge here. Is there any reason why updater should be a max active internalist? IMO that can only do harm since teh man could no longer really play internals (kinda shady if know wr styles or approve own wrs, even if it's someone like bene). px for sure hasn't known shit about internals for ages, As far as I know he just checks the rec/runs the cheat detecting programs and then updates table.

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2016, 20:33 
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I vote markku then


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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2016, 22:15 
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But why cant somebody call to px, or talk to Skype? Or he is disappeared?

I don't understand a promlem, pls say me px cant update wrs because
1) he know about new wrs, but don't want
2) or because he don't know about new wrs
3) or because ...?

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2016, 22:19 
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I guess he knows about his duties but can't be arsed anymore. Abula, who is still somewhat active-ish in the sense that he attends FEMs and plays on EOL (though not battles), is a personal friend of his and I've tried to ask Abu to convince px to hand over the reins, but it seems Abu isn't comfortable with doing something about the situation either.

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2016, 22:32 
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In the Doom community there was a very similar situation. One day the admin of the "official" speedrunning website simply disappeared. People kept trying to send their demos (replays), days of waiting turned into months and then years... Only several years (a bit less than 10) later someone decided to finally take everything in their own hands. Obviously, by that time the overall enthusiasm wasn't terribly high. :P

Hope it doesn't happen with elma.


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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2016, 23:01 
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To be honest, this has to happen right away, because if it takes any longer all enthusiasm is going to disappear, and fast. I'd nominate myself, but for obvious reasons that won't happen. A pro who doesn't play internals anymore would be ideal.

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PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 00:45 
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I would choose kopaka or markko.

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PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 01:21 
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Kopa and Markku are obvious, good and max trusted choices. If one of them is willing, it's high time to pass teh torch.

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PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 03:33 
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I would rather to see here a conversation of real chances of Abula? talking with px to have a solution to this. We know the story here, we will talk and complain about this and then nothing will happen. So before giving opinions of who could carry out the wr updates, imo it would be better to discuss what can we do to have it updated. Because...how much wrs will be missed cuz not updating? How much time left? 4 months more? 1 year? Years? Its a shame.

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PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 08:03 
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I wouldnt want bene updates he is an ass. I dont actively internal btw. I am just playing bumpy when bored and that is not likely to change in the next few years. I actively tas. Tas is fun.

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PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 08:23 
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I'm curious about some more details from WR makers, how long since you've sent WR's that are not currently updated and how many? Or if you don't want to talk about current ones, for the last update, how long before that update were the WR's sent? For a casual observer you might just think new WR's aren't being made that often, which makes it hard to know if there's something to improve upon.

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PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 10:35 
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I sent in my WR in tag over 1 month ago, but I think there are other WRs that are far older.

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PostPosted: 14 Oct 2016, 14:22 
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I vote Ruben

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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2016, 12:33 
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IMO for the last 5 years it seems like an average of 3+ months for a WR onto table which is ridiculous.

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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2016, 20:34 
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roope wrote:
Abula, who is still somewhat active-ish in the sense that he attends FEMs and plays on EOL (though not battles), is a personal friend of his and I've tried to ask Abu to convince px to hand over the reins, but it seems Abu isn't comfortable with doing something about the situation either.

It has to be stressed though, that Abula is officially inactive internal-wise since about a decade -- when he decided to get the rights to see the WR recs.

I cannot remember if his Twin Peaks involvement was before or afterwards, however.

EDIT: I don't know if Markku is officially inactive in internals too, but I'm a big fan since his wcup-3 involvement and would give him all my money.

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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2016, 20:47 
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ley wrote:
roope wrote:
Abula, who is still somewhat active-ish in the sense that he attends FEMs and plays on EOL (though not battles), is a personal friend of his and I've tried to ask Abu to convince px to hand over the reins, but it seems Abu isn't comfortable with doing something about the situation either.

It has to be stressed though, that Abula is officially inactive internal-wise since about a decade -- when he decided to get the rights to see the WR recs.

I cannot remember if his Twin Peaks involvement was before or afterwards, however.

EDIT: I don't know if Markku is officially inactive in internals too, but I'm a big fan since his wcup-3 involvement and would give him all my money.

When referencing Abula's semi-activity I mainly meant that it's still possible for us to get Abu to talk to px. Of course I wouldn't have other problems with Abula taking over the updating (it's his site after all) except his own activity, which might not be that much better than px.

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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2016, 21:15 
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"When referencing Abula's semi-activity I mainly meant that it's still possible for us to get Abu to talk to px."
Yeah roope I know, but since Abu is officially inactive internal-wise, it's another plus for us!

"it's his site after all"
'their' site, actually (if I'm not mistaken)

"which might not be that much better than px."
I don't know. Is this based on facts, or are you just raising the doubt for general consideration?

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ive just made head through poly, thought id share:
download/file.php?id=323 download/file.php?id=324


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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2016, 21:26 
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Yeps their site of course. I guess it's a good guesstimation that Abu wouldn't be that active as an updater either; he's got quite a busy life from what I know and hasn't really participated in contributing to any kind of scene stuff in years. He did promise all kinds of Moposite improvements waaaay back already and we haven't seen much of those either, so I guess that's a start when thinking how active he might be as a WR updater. On the other hand, updating WRs is a much more responsible and relatively simple job though, so dunno. Anyway, I just feel like he's in that "play just for fun and relax once in a while and go to see old friends in FEM" phase; would be a decent pit stop for WR updating job but not a long term solution.

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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2016, 15:16 
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roope wrote:
He did promise all kinds of Moposite improvements waaaay back already and we haven't seen much of those either

what i had got from it though, is that he would have wished for financial revenue in exchange of improvements made on the site; in other words, to make this some sort of paid job of his.

i cannot speak of his would-be motivation to wr-updating. as you said the job is much simpler, and furthermore i don't think we're in a good position to judge.

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ive just made head through poly, thought id share:
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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2016, 15:49 
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I'm disappointed no one thinks I'm disqualified because I could make a WR one day.

ley wrote:
roope wrote:
He did promise all kinds of Moposite improvements waaaay back already and we haven't seen much of those either

what i had got from it though, is that he would have wished for financial revenue in exchange of improvements made on the site; in other words, to make this some sort of paid job of his.

i cannot speak of his would-be motivation to wr-updating. as you said the job is much simpler, and furthermore i don't think we're in a good position to judge.


I think it was more a way of saying he had to prioritize paid jobs when it comes to time/motivation to do web development. Pretty sure he knows it's not realistic to raise that kind of money in elma scene.

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PostPosted: 27 Oct 2016, 01:09 
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isn't it time to get rid of this nostalgia thing with weekly updates anyway? with a potential new and better EOL site, surely it would make sense to just have some newest wrs stream/list on front page or something, and a real time updating table it links to? it could be styled so like this last weeks wrs or whatever would have that "new" gray background highlight (but hopefully maybe it wouldn't hurt to also get rid of nostalgia wr table look? or maybe just make that some alternative link if not. wrs could be marked as unverfied or just not updated/valid/whatever until a rec is sent and checked by whoever. duno. feel like high time to unify all random stuff to one place, which seems like logically should be eol site.

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PostPosted: 27 Oct 2016, 01:27 
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I agree with skint, good idea in my opinion. What i can see after this topic is even more absence than ever, and i dont want to be negative, but i wont be really happy if px does a new wr update...to have two, eight or one year of new wrs not updated? hmm...
I think the wr situation is getting similar to Doom scene, as kucha said and if we keep having the wr table not updated and the guy who handles it, cant to do it (wich is totally acceptable and understandable), well, lets not have the table outdated for months and months and lets change it.

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PostPosted: 27 Oct 2016, 08:29 
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Also agree with skint, very good idea.

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PostPosted: 27 Oct 2016, 15:30 
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i also agree with skint's standardization idea. and, about the superfluousness of sticking to past ways.

what comes to prominence from this though, is the need to formulate an acceptable verification process. so as to avoid situations like stini's enigma entering the wr table. back then -- let us remember -- there was doubt on the part of the official updaters, and consequently the rec was shared on the forums in order for the community to decide.

i objected to it then, however, and i somewhat still find it deplorable to see such runs on the table. in cases of doubt, not only has there to be consensus (as was done in the enigma's case), but it has to be ensured that the official verifiers have elma-feeling enough to spot such borderline-valid cases.

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ive just made head through poly, thought id share:
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PostPosted: 14 Dec 2016, 21:40 
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I'm sorry on behalf of Moposite crew. As Roope guessed correct I wouldn't do any better. I try to contribute Elma as best as I can when I have time for it but I don't want to promise to spend time for Elma frequently. Current plan is: participate Mopolauta discussions, fix Records and other big bugs, make the top10 links and write an article.

Csaba also had long breaks. It's very normal for people to low prioritize things like these when dealing with hobbies. Weekly updates would be boring because only 0-1 new WRs per table. After all I think px has done quite well if you look at the overall 10-15 years period. Everybody would do the job for the first 6 months but then real life can change etc. It's not that easy to teach a new buddy to do the job either.

But yes, I think we should be able to do the updates in 1-2 month depending on how many new ones there are.

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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2016, 00:10 
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I think even updates that says ''no wrs to be updated'' is better than not updating table for 1month or more. Its stupid to think updating wr table rarely is better, just because ''1 new wr'' updates are ''boring''. No they arent.

Rare updates can ruin someones chance to ever get on wr table, because someone can beat his time when we have these 2 month updates.


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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2016, 02:08 
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iltsu wrote:
I think even updates that says ''no wrs to be updated'' is better than not updating table for 1month or more. Its stupid to think updating wr table rarely is better, just because ''1 new wr'' updates are ''boring''. No they arent.
Couldn't agree more with this. I guess it's not too much effort to post "no new wrs" if no e-mails arrive, so why not? It used to happen regularly and made the site seem more alive, aside from reassuring people that the tables are still taken care of :)

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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2016, 16:23 
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axxualy, I am always 'xtremely disappointed, when I see WR update with "no new WRs". From max excitement to lowest excitement in seconds. Would prefer not doing teh.
I'd accept it only if it'd somehow helped the WR updater (like maintaining his schedule or smth).

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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2016, 16:25 
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There could be a form that says: "No new WRs, last time checked 20 december". No need for a news item each time, just a place where you can see that px is actually doing his job.


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2016, 11:56 
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Well px aint doing his job so someone else has to take over, end of story.

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2016, 12:52 
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Look at Moposite :roll:

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2016, 14:19 
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Oh look at that http://moposite.com/news.php
Time to hoyl then!

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