For those who are interested in writing (and reading ofc)

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Ruben
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For those who are interested in writing (and reading ofc)

Post by Ruben »

I was just digging around in some old files, and found this short essay thingie I wrote a couple of years ago as a qwquu001 for a writing session. I never went through with the idea, but it does look like an interesting challenge. And a hard one at that. Do you think it's possible?
Everybody needs an antagonist. Well, at least everybody in fiction that is. Imagine how boring it would be if there wasn’t an antagonist. Imagine if everything went according to plan. The main character makes all the right decisions at all the right times, and everything is concluded with a happy ending to a happy life. There is no challenge, no setbacks, no failures, no drama, no embarrassments, no trouble. Is it possible to write a good story with these parameters? Length is of no particular concern, but it has to be engaging, so much so that people will be intrigued by the concept, and more importantly the story itself.

Such attempts have been made earlier, movies (and books for that matter) without any particular story arc. Night on Earth is one I remember in particular. It had no "main" character, just five seemingly random taxi rides in five seemingly random places. Jim Jarmusch might have had his own reasons, and there might be a bigger picture, but I like to think that there isn't. We just see a tiny glimpse of these people's lives, and nothing else. So what makes this movie so good (in my own humble opinion)?
I think perhaps it's the fact that these characters are so alive, they have stories to tell, things to do, places to go. Most of them live far from perfect lives, and their troubles and sins are what makes it so engaging. Therefore Night on Earth does not fit into the parameters I've given.

So, back to the real issue at hand, is it possible? I would like to say yes; it is. And I think there are two ways to do so:

The first, is to just tell the story of a successful individual, that does not necessarily have to be a person. It can be an animal, a cooperation, a city, a planet, a window pane, a piece of string cheese, a toaster, the wind, or even something more abstract like a metaphor or a word. The possibilities are endless, and seem more fit for novellas than anything else.

The second (and let's for the sake of argument assume the protagonist is a man here), is to focus on everything else around the protagonist, and not really the protagonist himself. You can highlight all the things that goes on around him. The characters surrounding him like friends or family, or even characters that he is completely oblivious to. The plot doesn't concern itself with the protagonist, he is just incidentally in the close vicinity at key points in the story that's actually being conveyed. But then what's the point of the protagonist if he has nothing to do with the story in the first place? And there are a few pros, and a hoard of cons. Let's begin with the latter:

The obvious "mistake" in writing like this is that things will get uninteresting quite quickly. People will not understand why they are investing their time in a character that is so incredibly boring.
You can't show the thought process of secondary characters, and when the plot is driven by those you will have to resort to other things, like overhearing monologues and reading in diaries.
You have to very early on make it explicitly clear that the protagonist is not important, and it has to happen fast, preferably within the first few pages.

Then again there are also a few pros:

This kind of storytelling allows for the views of many different characters. They can be on both sides of a conflict, or caught in between.
You can be at several places at once, so to speak, and hear and see how different characters interpret the same issues. This could of course also be achieved simply by switching viewpoints between chapters, but that has a great chance of alienating the reader, and it is at great risk of becoming "jumpy" and clumsy.
It also allows very obvious moral greyness. There is no "good vs. evil", no bad guy and good guy. There are just people who have different issues and motives. Some may have the same problems, but different ways of tackling them. This gives them key characteristics that define them and separate them.

However, a protagonist with no function whatsoever is pointless, then a camera would be a better option. So the protagonist has to interact with the main plot, but that can happen on an unintentional and somewhat random level. He could do something as simple as standing in the way of someone, or placing an object at an unfortunate place. He could have a small, seemingly unimportant chat with a key character, that completely alters said characters views and actions. This way the protagonist is not invisible or static, and not important or engaging either.

Then there's one last issue that has to be addressed before we start making some serious decisions: What does the protagonist do? We've already established that he is unimportant to the plot, on a conscious level anyway. So what's his arc? It's his story after all, and we have to endure him doing uninteresting ordinary things, while the plot is halfway hidden behind the curtains. The issue here is that we then need two stories, one for the protagonist and one for the actual plot. How do we keep the reader interested through something as bumpy as that?

Does the antagonist have any friends? Yes definitely, he is successful, it was one of the first parameters. But are his friends alright? Is it those the plot is really about? How are his parents? Who are they? Are they important? In which environment does the story take place? Well these are all things we're going to have to just decide.

So without further ado; let's get cracking!
Any thoughts on the matter? Or even better, any ideas? I'd forgotten about this and want to try it now.

TL;DR: Do you like writing and literature? Well then, reading this little piece of text is hardly challenging...
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Re: For those who are interested in writing (and reading ofc

Post by gimp »

Can his first name be Melvin?
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Re: For those who are interested in writing (and reading ofc

Post by Ruben »

gimp wrote:Can his first name be Melvin?
Thank you for the input lel. Sure why not? I was thinking more about thoughts on the general concept though.
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Re: For those who are interested in writing (and reading ofc

Post by ville_j »

I am interested in reading and writing (or more like plot development) so this is somewhat intriguing topic. I haven't really thought about having a such (serious) story where it all just happens without any setbacks. I feel, like you said, that such story could become uninteresting pretty fast. The books I read usually contain many dramatic moments that make you feel for the characters and that makes me want to continue learning the story to see how the situation turns out eventually. When there are reasonable amount of these good and bad events the story feels compelling to me.

Maybe it is worth it to try and create a story without all the drama, I would definitely give it a shot and read it. This reminds me of kind of an opposite type of a story, Funny Games, which I did not like.
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Re: For those who are interested in writing (and reading ofc

Post by Ruben »

Ville_J wrote:I am interested in reading and writing (or more like plot development) so this is somewhat intriguing topic. I haven't really thought about having a such (serious) story where it all just happens without any setbacks. I feel, like you said, that such story could become uninteresting pretty fast. The books I read usually contain many dramatic moments that make you feel for the characters and that makes me want to continue learning the story to see how the situation turns out eventually. When there are reasonable amount of these good and bad events the story feels compelling to me.

Maybe it is worth it to try and create a story without all the drama, I would definitely give it a shot and read it. This reminds me of kind of an opposite type of a story, Funny Games, which I did not like.
Wow that's... Pretty fucked up. I think I'll pass.

But yeah there has to be a compelling story, and an easy surf through life is hardly that. That's why I decided that although the protagonist is the "main" character, the story isn't about him. I got that idea from playing Portal possibly, where the story is being told without being told.

It could be about a murder having happened in a school for example, which has no effect on the main character, but has great effect on the people around him. And through stupidly lucky circumstances he manages to help solve a murder mystery without even realizing it.

Oh wait, that's already been done. I forgot about Pink Panther... And it's hard to out-do Peter Sellers at anything really.

And it would also create a villain, which is quite contradictory to the first idea. Yeah this thing is filled to the brim with compromise already at page 1, not really a good start for a concept.
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Re: For those who are interested in writing (and reading ofc

Post by gimp »

I am confused about the organization and goal of Melvin's story here and purpose of this topic. Are you planning to hear suggestions and then the goal be that YOU write this whole story? Or what the fuck is going on I dont get it. What am I doing in this topic?
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Re: For those who are interested in writing (and reading ofc

Post by Ruben »

gimp wrote:I am confused about the organization and goal of Melvin's story here and purpose of this topic. Are you planning to hear suggestions and then the goal be that YOU write this whole story? Or what the fuck is going on I dont get it. What am I doing in this topic?
Only YOU can answer that. Mostly I just found it and thought like sharing it. Hearing people's views on whether it's possible or not. Things need not always purpose you know :wink:
<veezay> antti also gonna get stabbed later this month
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