Sleeping disorders - solution?

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pawq
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Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by pawq »

I've always been a night owl and I've always had trouble getting up in the morning. At school I played games till late and then sleept in classes. I was actually known for that, both by my peers and teachers. Same thing at uni, but it was easier to cope with cuz I could just skip lectures. However, this year I started a new chapter in my life, which involves being in the office roughly 9-17. And I struggled - I still couldn't fall asleep until 2-3am, often overslept (sometimes till like 2pm), and was often very sleepy and unproductive in the office. Elma didn't help.

A week ago I came home for Christmas and since then I haven't managed to fall asleep before some 5am, and because I had to get up reasonably early to help with stuff, I haven't slept more than 4-5h for a week. Two nights ago I didn't manage to fall asleep until almost 7am, and the following "morning" I didn't manage to get up until 3pm (I tried, but I was nearly unconscious). During the night I was as awake as in the middle of the day, and I got really pissed off. I told myself: "tomorrow I'm going to the pharmacy to get some sleeping pills, I've had enough of this". And I did. Today I woke up at 9am after 8 hours of sleep and it was the best morning for a long time.

The thing is called melatonin. It was available over the counter and wasn't too expensive (~8€ for 30 pills). It was recommended by the pharmacist - she said it was natural (melatonin is naturally present in the body) and the only significant side effect was mild head aches - no impact on memory, concentration, etc. It's meant to be taken 30min up to an hour before going to sleep. Mine was indeed followed by a slight headache, but nothing too uncomfortable. Just enough to know that it has had some effect. Quite quickly my eyes told me they'd like to close, but as soon as I hit the pillow at 1am I felt something I haven't felt for a long time - sleepiness. I was away in the dreamland not even 5min later, and although I woke up a few times during the night, I fell back asleep very quickly every time and woke up perfectly fine just before 9am.

I'm only writing this because I suspect there's quite a few people with a fucked up circadian clock in the elma scene, and these pills worked so well for me I'm actually amazed. If you're struggling like I described in the first paragraph, I wholeheartedly recommend that you go to the pharmacy and buy something - I expect melatonin should be quite a universal product. Whatever you choose to buy though, give it a try! I'm a living proof that sometimes things like this actually work and I feel so much better already.

I will keep taking these every evening and I will report on further effects (and side effects) in a few days. Till then, have a good day!

pawq

PS. - mine was a "starter" dose of 5mg of melatonin per pill.
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by kuchitsu »

For me it once worked to completely skip sleep one night. It made me dead tired and I just had to go to sleep really early the next evening. After that I had a normal schedule for like a week. Then I gradually returned to my old habits.

I think for me the problem is that night is simply the most comfortable time to be awake. Noone is going to bother you, it is quiet both in the house and outside of it. You get that special kind of atmosphere, almost if the whole world stopped and you're alone and free, just chilling here and doing whatever you want. I'm not sure if I'm willing to sacrifice that feeling. Like, at night I often feel the most happy, the most excited about things, the most willing to freely talk about intimate topics and so on. Then, when I wake up the next day, all that energy just disappears somewhere and I hate everything again. Or maybe that's exactly what it means to have a sleeping disorder.

Looking forward to what you say in a few weeks/months.
Last edited by kuchitsu on 29 Dec 2016, 15:19, edited 2 times in total.
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Hosp
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by Hosp »

I've used melatonin from time to time myself but it only helps a little sometimes, very weak stuff even in large doses. But then again no side effects that I know of.
Tried some heavier stuff like allergy pills and even benzo, sach do the trick much better but have severe side effects.
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by Lousku »

Someone claimed sleep problems are so common nowadays because we don't really give brains "quiet time" during the day. Any downtime like sitting on the bus or shitting, you probably pull out your phone and find some distractions (at leest I do). So if you have some thoughts to process, they just build up until you go to bed and all of teh pending thoughts are spammed at once.

It sounds reasonabel but probabli not the whole picture. Ofc we still think about things while doing tasks that require less processing, so I'm not suar how it fits.
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by Zweq »

ive hadd one realy good sleep in the last year, it was when i was row boating andd fishink all day in the summer in the middle of absolute nowhere. slept like a truk
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by roope »

I've had constant sleeping problems for over 10 years now. Usually the thing is that I just don't get sleepy even though I'm really tired. The body is tired and the mind wants to go to sleep, but won't just calm down and go to relax mode. One very weird thing is that I have these problems only at my own bed (or couch where I usually sleep nowadays) at night: I can get sleep anywhere anytime, except at home when I'm supposed to sleep. I'm guessing this is because when I'm elsewhere, my brain gets more stressed -> run out of energy sooner -> can ez sleep, or something.

When I first found melatonin a year or two ago, it was quite amazing stuff. It actually made me sleepy, the sleep came quickly, and I saw the wildest dreams and I could remember them easily. On the long run the effect decreases quite drastically though - even the container says that it's not meant for continuous use. I've been wondering about trying to get actual sleeping pills for years since I want better life quality and it all starts with sleep, the world largely functions from the morning to the afternoon - I can't be calling to job places and all if I'm sleeping or haven't slept yet at that time. I'm just extremely stubborn about not going to the doctor's about any of my problems for some reason. A few years ago I did go because I had a job starting in a couple of weeks and my sleeping rythm was way too fucked, and I got actual sleeping pills. They were quite amazing, like it really did put me to sleep within an hour (if I tried to stay up longer I got hallucinations/paranoidness, which was kinda cool also).

What kuchi said about just skipping sleep was what I used to do a lot when I was younger, but it's just total impsy nowadays. If I try to do it, it'll just usually worsen the situation - I'll just fall asleep in the afternoon or something and then wake up in the middle of the night. In upper comprehensive school and in high school I used to stay even a couple of days up at a time while going to school - naively thought it was cool or something.
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Ruben
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by Ruben »

I'm tired all the time, but I still can't sleep until it's way too late, daliy routine ruined. I just learned yesterday, though, that there's actually a disease in my family which causes shortage of some chemical in the bloodstream, which in turns makes you tired. It's a genetic disease, and I know my aunt and cousins have it, and I'm fairly certain mum has it too (even though she refuses to get herself checked), so I wouldn't be surprised if it's the reason why I feel like crap all the time. In a way I have this strange optimism about being chronically ill, because it can be easily fixed with suppliments and maybe it'll fix my daily routine as well as my energy level during the day.
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by Zweq »

me also always tired and brainfog, hard to concentrate on anything nor "escape" own brain, even when around people feels like i stuck inside own head, hard time to concentrate on listening to what ppls say, hard time to study anything new. Then finally bang at 23.00 awake and ready to do stuff, and hunger kicks in also for the first time during the day... oh 2 bad gotta go sleep in 30 mins fuk... then get weird undeep foggy sleep wake up 7.35, feel like corpse, only thing that operates are the legs, cant find clothjs duno where light switch walking in walls etc, then around 10.00 finaly wake up for real with few cups of gofe, at 14.00 - 15.00 fog arrives and lasts until 23.00. rins repeat. Then coms weekend and sleep 10h and finaly feel norm.

now the interesting thing ive noticed is that if i put alarm 3-4am and stay up just 2-3 mins with lights on and stuf, sort of like sleep "reset", i dont have these weird fog symptoms the next day, or at least clearly less. ive tried this couple times and it never failed... hmm maybe i should experiment it more
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by Orcc »

My too have always been a night person. In upper secondary school I slept way too little overall, slept on classes, fell asleep during Swedish matriculation examination etc. Then again in army I slept very norm in the barracks (22-06) and in forest camps only a couple hours every night without problem so I can manage wake ups when I need to. After that comes the university and I skipped a load of lectures because just orkade get up in the mornings. Last uni years I could watch some NHL at night, then sleep 05-14 and force myself awake to go to lunch place for breakfast. Not very productive.

However nowadays I'm working. I've had struggles to go to work at 9. A my work mates make fun of me since most come to work at 7 or latest at 8. Last Spring I moved together with my gf and my computer time has dropped to almost zero. In exchange tv time has increased, but it's a lot less worse for sleep than computer. Mostly tv hurts sleep if you watch a movie that ends late.

So my tip is to just stop sitting in front of the computer. At that point you realize that you really have nothing else to do (which in turn is the reason one sits at the computer during nights). Is it really mandatory to play that late evening battle and browse youtube videos at night? Why not just shut down the computer and let internet friends enjoy their time without your presence, say, at nine o'clock?

To battle the blue light emitting from computer and mobile phone there are programs to help you. I've had these for years and if I can't prove that they have significantly improved my sleep, I can at least say that they haven't decreased computer höyling experience. Even Elma works thanks to ddraw.dll.

For computer, f.lux: https://justgetflux.com/
For Android, Twilight: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... .lux&hl=en
There are also sach for iPhone etc. so you cane googel them yourself
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by Madness »

I wouldn't have problems falling asleep if I didn't have such a terrible shift pattern and could go to bed regularly at the same time. Imagine you do afternoon shifts where you get to bed at 1am, then you have one day off and the next day you get up at 4.15am.
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by 8-ball »

Some personal experiences as another nocturnal animal:
Melatonin doesn't really make much difference for me. I found taking about 100mg L-Theanine much more effective, without side effects. Alternatively, a bong rip of some good indica strain weed helps a bunch also.

Also never seem to have trouble falling asleep if I work out or run in the evening. Also sleep better if I'm fasting that day and keeping carbs low.
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by Pab »

Yesterday took small pill but it was kinda late
Got to work at 12 am. Also first work day of the year, everyone got late too. Now remembered to take pill early, at 20:00… let's see how it goes, I go close eyes and no TV or phone.
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by zebra »

Eating at night can be one possible solution, because it produces melatonin naturally. At least I feel very sleepy about 1-2 hours after I have eaten.
So usually I eat 1-2 hours before I'm going to bed and I always sleep very well.
And to not to get fat, you simply have to eat less at daytime.
This might not work for everybody, but works for me at least :)

Other thing which usually helps is sports/physical activity at daytime.
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by teajay »

It's very simple actually, you don't produce melatonin when there's daylight. The blue light of screens tend to recreate that effect. So in order to sleep better, you just have to turn off TV sets, computers and phones 2 hours before your scheduled bed time. It works better if your life is scheduled with in a regular order. For example, in my job as as a stage assistant, I work crazy hours. Sometimes I need to get up at 4 am, sometimes I work till 4 am. It doesn't do wonders for your daily rhythm. And although it seems less boring, in the end your body and eventually also your mind seem to prefer a bit more regular sleeping and working rhythm.

A second tip: always rise at the same time. The first step is to get out of bed at the same moment every day, no matter how tired you are. You will feel a bit wasted in the beginning, but eventually you will only need to set your alarm for safety measures. The result will be that you will want to go to bed instead of pushing yourself to sleep. And you will also notice that when you go to bed late after a party, you will still wake up early. This is not really bad, you can always do a 20 min nap in the afternoon. The lack of sleep will not put a dent in your basic fit feel, because you will have a solid basis with your settled sleeping rhythm. Just compare your situation with parents with young children. For the amount of sleep they miss, it's incredible they're still standing on both their feet during most of the daytime. Now go back to your own situation without children. You can get the right amount of sleep every day, as long as you prioritize it.

Disclaimer: for some people, sleeping pills are the only solution. But just like depression a combination of pharmacy and behavioral treatment works best even then.
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by kuchitsu »

But honestly, what is there to do if the computer is off?
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by Zweq »

zebra wrote: I eat 1-2 hours before I'm going to bed and I always sleep very well.
Good tip, this works for me. My last resort (pos gazebo) fall asleep trick is eat cheese. But mustn't eat too much because that affects quality of sleep (for me) and wake up considerably more tired in morn .
zebra wrote: Other thing which usually helps is sports/physical activity at daytime.
Another good tip. Not only it helps fall asleep, in my experience also the sleep is more deep and restorative. On the other hand, the amount of sleep needed increases (for me)
kuchitsu wrote:But honestly, what is there to do if the computer is off?


That's a good question. I personally have basically 2 options: guitar or book, none of which I can handle for a long time, hel, hard to play or read more than 15 mins in one go. And teajay suggested 2hours of calm time before sleep. imspY
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by FinMan »

One thing that could help most of us is this simple program: https://justgetflux.com/

It adjusts your shit which supposedly results in easier sleep osv.
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by Pab »

I used that for like 1 month but I'm too nab to say if it works or not. But IMO sounds legit. Just put that program on and after a while turn it off a second and you will see that the program does a huge change on screen light.
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by Madness »

Screen light has no negative effect on my sleep. Eating at night is good, I can't sleep if my stomach isn't full.
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by Zweq »

this week:
sunday: goed sleep 2.30 am, wake up 7.30 am, super good day
monday: goed sleep 12pm, wake up 7.30 am, proly deepest sleep ever, good day
tuesday: dont remeber
wednesday aka yesteday: goeD sleep 11.30 pm, wake up 7.30 am, super bad day, brain fog (feels like pressure in forehead, cant concentrate). felt like hadn't slept at all
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by Madness »

So you slept 19.5 hours in a row from Monday to Tuesday?
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Lousku
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by Lousku »

The geniuses who invented am/pm thing flipped midnight and midday so 11.59am flips to 12.00pm. Just gr8, innit...
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by Ruben »

Lousku wrote:The geniuses who invented am/pm thing flipped midnight and midday so 11.59am flips to 12.00pm. Just gr8, innit...
I use 24 hour clock like any civilized person.
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Re: Sleeping disorders - solution?

Post by kuchitsu »

Yeah, I never ever use am/pm in my speech. Awful idea.
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