World Cup 4 winner team?

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World Cup 4 winner team?

REM
3
7%
EM
2
5%
IC
12
27%
¿
4
9%
.
1
2%
FM
10
23%
swos
1
2%
ReC
1
2%
TEA
0
No votes
HK
0
No votes
TAAF
1
2%
RET
2
5%
c0ol
2
5%
TB
0
No votes
SC
1
2%
W4T
4
9%
 
Total votes: 44

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World Cup 4 winner team?

Post by Abula »

The team must have at least 3 members taking part to cup. The best team is the one which gets most points or the best average, don't know yet :P. Anyway throw your votes.

There might be one new wcup-team containing zyntifox, elg, zeth, Petri and Elbono. Let's name it for example W4T (Wcup 4 Team :P).

ribot suggested this.
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Post by dz »

sathy & psy = 3 :?:
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Post by Abula »

dz wrote:sathy & psy = 3 :?:
Edit: rules have been changed.
Last edited by Abula on 30 Aug 2002, 23:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by DYW265 »

what does IC stands for? never heard of that team
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Post by Abula »

DYW265 wrote:what does IC stands for? never heard of that team
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Post by ribot »

abula why does a team need 3 players? and . doesn't have 3 players.
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Post by Abula »

ribot wrote:abula why does a team need 3 players? and . doesn't have 3 players.
Because then all small teams would beat big ones eventhough big ones have more members in top20 for example. One man teams...
Last edited by Abula on 28 Aug 2002, 22:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by dz »

blah the average system sux. now if team has like 2 good and 1 bad player, the one bad should not even send in, so he doesnt lower the average ? (sorry if ive misunderstood)
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Post by Abula »

dz wrote:blah the average system sux. now if team has like 2 good and 1 bad player, the one bad should not even send in, so he doesnt lower the average ? (sorry if ive misunderstood)
True but tell me better. All points total isn't good either because then small teams can't do well. PRA with 15 members would rule eventhough the best of them was 29th.
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Post by onlainari »

IC gonna be tough...though FM has so many active players and I think quite many players in this wcup gets equal points
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Post by DYW265 »

swos will be the best team it´s just my feeling
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Post by ribot »

there is a better way abula, if u let the three best players of a team make up the team, and if there are more players in that team playing it makes up the team (2).
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Post by Hibernatus »

Easy:

for each event:
for each team, take the best time
make a toplist of the teams with points as you did for kuskis.
the best team is the one which got the most points for all the event.

Example:
event 01:
Abula[FM] 100 pts
Karlis[FM] 85pts
dz[REM] 75pts
...

FM 100 pts
REM 85pts
...
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Post by ribot »

it doesn't really look like a team competition then, however u could mix my suggestion with hib's idea and take the 3 best players points from one team each event and make that the team score
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Post by Hibernatus »

Dirty tuning. Using the top3 instead of top1 in a team means that you suppose that most of the teams have a balanced group of 3 players at least, and no need for 4. With your reasonning, top4 would seem more accurate. what's the logic in that? Take top42 and you are back to the 1st problem :)

Think a team as an entity. What counts is the score that entity gets for each lev. so you think it measures single players' skills? Of course not, the more good players you have in that team, the more chances it has to have a good score. Team quality is still measured naturally (not much, i admit).

If a player can beat a team alone (let's take DarMoeD[RET] as an example), then he is a better team!

If you want balanced teams to have a better score (which i understand), you need fixed size teams (as in formula one). Then you can do whatever.

ps. I don't bet DarMoeD will win. It was an example. I bet on IC members :) Thankfully they have 3 good members, so there's no problem with your system for them :)
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Post by zeth »

Why even vote? "W4T" will win anyway :D
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Post by chux »

Each team chooses 3 players, which will probably be their best 3, then average their scores (add together, divide by 3) then the best averaged times get the points

Well, you dont have to listen to me, MopokuskiS arent even entering! lol
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Post by dz »

i dunno but i tell you, just taking average of each participater and count team point, there's a wrong way to do it. it only discourages not-so-good players in team to take part, and do we want that ?
it will only lead to situation, where ppl with not very good times wont send in.
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Post by ribot »

hib an example:
i wanna play the wcup, and i want my team to do good. since nostrada is much better than me only his points would be counted for my team, and the team competition is out of my reach.

and no team has 42 players - considering reality in this problem is essential to make a good solution. most teams have around 5-6 players, and to request 4 players from each team to take part in the whole cup is a bit much. 2 players is not really a team. but 3 is often a good portion of the team, most often allowing each team player to score for his team if he really makes an effort. there are also some 3 player teams that can do good in the team competition.
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Post by chux »

Phew...so difficult...I dunno, I'm not very experienced at this, MopokuskiS are only just starting...and none of us are very good. Anyone interested in joining, email mopochuckles@hotmail.com, keep in mind though, we arent good, and we dont want people to make us look bad! lol
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Post by SveinR »

I think the average of all the participators of the team is the way to do it. After all, it is the team score, and I think all of the team members should have a factor towards the team score. If 3 players of the team rule, and 2 others get lousy times, so what? It is a team competition, so all the members should be a factor, as I've said. And if the lousy (sorry for the wording) ones doesn't want to send in their times because they're afraid that is going to ruin the team's position, then the other members should incourage them to send in. It shouldn't all be about winning.
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Post by dz »

SveinR wrote:It shouldn't all be about winning.
yeah, it's just it is :D
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Post by cyre »

I'm not in any team and might not have that much experience about teams but I think SveinR has a good point. Best team list should be about teams. A team isn't the best if you have 3 not so good players and 1 very good who gets the best time for the team. And one player is not a team either. There should be a way to measure the team as a whole, not it's best player and his time. That's for the single player lists.

Ok then we take the average of the whole team. No one stands out. Is this good then? I think it's not the best solution either. In the best-time case where you took the best time of each team, the team's ranking was determinded by one guy's time regardless of his team mates. In the average-of-whole-team case one guy can screw up the whole teams time with a very sucky time. I know that's how it should be in team play but would u want to be that guy? He would probably decide not to send it and that would not be good cause as far as i know he then couldn't participate in the single comp either.

So what then? This might have been mentioned in #across but i'll mention it anyways because I think it's the best system. So take the average of the top3 times of each team. That way all members could send theis runs and one guy alone coudn't make the team win or loose. Three should also be the minimum number of players in a team. Like ribot said.

Didn't mean this to be so long. Sorry. :wink:

I hope it's not all bullshit...

(and i voted too) :lol:
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Post by cyre »

ok ChuckleS kinda had that same system... :lol:
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Post by Abula »

I think this top3 members's points divided by three for each event sounds the best one. And you don't need 3 members in a team at all but then you don't get the maximum advantage (fair and same as earlier).
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Post by Hibernatus »

Well, i'm surprised by your way of evaluating teams... Kuskis times are not interesting, what's interesting is the team time they got thanks to team work.
It's almost as if the multiplayer mode was played the same way by both players. Then you take the average time. Not as interesting as the actual multiplayer mode...
If the best player of a team has found all the styles alone, then i admit it's bad for the system i described, but we don't care about his teammates times either (such a team doesn't deserve a better score just because there are 2 hoylas behind the leader).
If a player is a too bad hoyla to help his team having a good average time, he can still find styles.
Your vision of a team seems to be a group of kuskis, rather than a real team (please don't answer "well that's what it is", you know the difference). So what you're doing is closer to F1 than soccer for example :) After all, maybe i can't understand how much the individual times are important in a team because i've never been in a team :)

(i won't annoy you anymore with that, but just think about it ;))
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Post by chux »

Yeah, kinda makes sense. With the averaging, teams will have to be good all round players to get the best scores, you cant just have 1 amazing player and 2 not so good ones, and just take the best time. Averaging makes all the times important...
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Post by cyre »

I thought i had made my point quite clear :lol:

If you want to see how individual kuskis did, then you'll go to single
player list. If you want to see how teams did then you'll go to team list.

In single player list you'll find the times of individual players compared to each other. And you'll find out which kuski was the best, second, third etc.

In team list you'll find the team times compared to each other. And you'll find out which team was the best, second, third etc.

You shouldn't mix the two.

And if a team really plays like a group of kuskis whitout sharing any styles, recs etc. they will have bad top3 average, when a team that really plays well as a team will have a good one. And if you want to know who were the best individuals in each team (without always going to the single list) then i don't see why the top3 of each team couldn't be mentioned alongside their average.
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Post by Hibernatus »

I know i said i wouldn't annoy you anymore but:
Gunos: This is not an argument. The subject is not "how to show some new data about the teams", but "what could tell us which team did the best in that WC".
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Post by cyre »

I thought i WAS talking about how to tell which team is the best when i explained about the top3 average system.

Btw. Abula that point system is great. It's simple and easy. You should use it in the WC4.
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Post by ribot »

if you take the averege time of the team it only needs one player who can win the team cup alone. and also it discourages ppl to send in "bad" times
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Post by Kopaka »

Here is also a way to do it.

Take the point of the 3rd best kuski in the team of each event.

:lol: example

1st - 100 pts. Rigger [rdk]
2 - 85 H202Manden [CEP]
3 - 75 GuyB [rdk]
4 - 70 Kopaka [CEP]
5 - 65 Assafs [CEP]
6 - 60 Petsen [rdk]
7 - 56 Abula[FM]

Team standing:
RDK: 60 p.
CEP: 65 p.
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Post by dz »

well thats not the team score, its only 3rd kuski score
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Post by ribot »

team RA should be in the poll too, they are good playaz
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Post by SveinR »

Just out of queriosity:

In wc3, there was the system of taking the average of the teams total based on number of team participators.
How did that go, actually? Did any of you notice that some players of a team didn't send in, possibly because they didn't have good enough time?
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Post by Abula »

SveinR wrote:Just out of queriosity:

In wc3, there was the system of taking the average of the teams total based on number of team participators.
How did that go, actually? Did any of you notice that some players of a team didn't send in, possibly because they didn't have good enough time?
Team standings were done after the cup was over so people didn't know that there would come those. And they were less appreciated than now.
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Post by chux »

I like the sound of the third best score actually! it encourages all the team to play good, so the third best score is actually a good one! interesting...
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Post by DYW265 »

not really... one member (the greatest) could send in his 3 best times then...
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Post by chux »

You mean...a cheating kuski? Never!
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Post by DYW265 »

why not? i think many did that way in wcup3, like "giving" times to their friends
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Post by chux »

Yeah, I guess...Ah well, I dunno, Im outta ideas
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Post by SveinR »

I got an idea for a system this morning, that might be insanely stupid, I haven't thought of the pros and cons that much.

It's based like this: You take the amount of players that that team has (whether or not they are participating or not) and split that with the number of the participating players of that team. Then you take the team's total score, and split it with that number.

Like this: Team X has 10 players, but only 5 are participating in event Y. That is 10/5=2.

Then, team X' total score in event Y is 300 points. That gives 300/2=150.

So, team X' score in event Y is 150 points.


Now, I know this is stupid for teams like FM, who has so many good players that won't participate, because they have quit. So this system would have worked better if the teams had set a number of players that they thought would participate in the WC, so that that would be the number to split with the participating ones in each event. But then we're back to those who doesn't want to participate because they are afraid of putting the team's score down.

But, unlike the other systems, here you can help the team's score even if you get points in the event or not.
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Post by ribot »

that idea is really advantageous to the small teams, like .'s psy and sathy. then it's easy to cheat and say ppl have quit.

about cheating by making times for others, it's still possible without the team competition, and i'm sure ppl do it. for ex matte asked me to drive a headbanger remix for his olp total when we were in [c0ol], tho i didn't do it. i bet he has done it with others. it's possible to make up players too, but at least it's harder to make good times for a whole team than for oneself.
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Post by Karlis »

well well, guess which team won :lol:
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Post by magicman »

Karlis wrote:well well, guess which team won :lol:
ehh shut0r :) Well who would tought CF(c0ol) would come 2nd team :))?
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Post by Abula »

magicman wrote:ehh shut0r :) Well who would tought CF(c0ol) would come 2nd team :))?
Hm, two? Can't you see the poll result?
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Post by Bonobo »

WRlist says IRK is a member of [FS] not [IC]. Do they have 3 players then??
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Post by jcl »

IRK was kicked out of IC (for spreading replays)

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