METAL

[teajay]

Really, how astonishing wide this genre of music is! The first is not the second and the third is wholly different too. We can talk about it forever, and I'm just wondering what your thoughts on this subject are.

Just for sake of introduction some youtube links:
A guy who makes a videorant about true death metal compared to poser/fag-core
Another guy comparing two sorts of music
It's entertaining to see how much people can get worked up by music, while not having the slightest idea of the dedication some people put into their music. The reasoning behind their discussions about which subgenre is the most death/true/core/metal is surprisingly immature. Youtube comments can be good reads, if you have a good beer with it.

Now, to get on with this topic to make sense; most of you guys listen to rock music occasionally, and many of you indulge in metal 99% of the time. I see the most diverse lists of names in your last.fm profiles and am really astonished by the diversity of all this, and the eagerness of some to divide it all into several subgenres and subsubgenres and subsubsubgenres.

Truth is, I just gave up on this. Metal is metal, whatever. When I was watching the documentary from this canadian guy about metal, I laughed at the way how he divided metal in multiple groups. Then when he came to wacken open air and had a talk with drunken mayhem members - it became clear to me; in the end it's all rock & roll.

Still, you can like and dislike some bands. I for myself have a certain fondness of these bands in particular:

Anal Cunt - seth putnam's vocals and the song titles, just great.
Pantera - last two albums are the summum of good distortion riffing guitar for me, with good bass, good harsh vocals without getting headaches from them and losing sense.
Arch Enemy - I like the vocals of their german singer, but this music gets boring fast.
Lamb Of God - I only heard some songs, I yet have to listen to an album. It probably all sounds the same, but one thing I like is their guitars, it sounds wellproduced to me.
Slipknot - That is just good music, no matter how much disdain people have for them, I still like it.

Yes, this is about taste. I realise some of you might find these bands gay or pussy and some might say that it's demonic. This is very much a perspective thing. So what is it you seek in metal; what do you like about specific guitar riffs, drum sounds, vocals, atmospherics and production techniques and lack of it in some music?

[SveinR]

One would think, after 7286 posts, you'd know Elma-related discussion from Non-Elma. Apparently not.

[teajay]

Sorry, what do you mean?

[roope]

Hi. I'm kinda new here and I decided to spend my first post on something I really love. 8)

Sooo. I thinks it's good to divide metal in some subgenres, since glam metal is so different from black metal for example.
But yeah, it's stupid to go extreme like "christian avant-garde power metal".

I personally like thrash, death and black metal.
Some of my favorite bands atm include

1349
Summoning
Samael
Darkthrone
Kreator

and many more.
My Last.fm.

Oh. What I like. Umm. I prefer powerful drumming and sawing riffs like in Vader's songs.

[teajay]

I never heard of 1349, please post some good youtube link! Anyway welcome, and thanks for dedicating your first post on my new topic.

[roope]

Not many choices on YouTube :\
But well, http://youtube.com/watch?v=eDSSqAF-VdU.

Not alike your favorite bands but whatever :D

[teajay]

Can't watch it! Oh and some of those are not my favourite bands, just took some random stuff I listened to today. Though I like pantera very much. But rammstein is just my hit, not very metal though. I was aiming for metal here though.

[Zweq]

Annihilator
Megadeth
Sodom

those I listened lately, majorly annihilator, which is besterest (first 5 albums or sach)

[teajay]

more thrashy like, 80's. I know you were a fan of malmsteen, I wonder, I really tried, but I kinda dislike his music.

[J-sim]

I have issues with metal to be honest.
Specifically the metal genres like black metal where the imagery, the costumes, the attitude, the mythology, just about everything surounding the music is just too silly for me to handle. In these cases I must admit I rarely even get as far as listening to the music.
When I have given any kind of metal a chance I've found it extremely hard to get into. Maybe there's a learning curve?

I like a lot of different "hard" rock (and even some genres that are considered metal subgenres) like: stoner rock, psych rock, doom, punk, early heavy metal with roots in blues etc.

I think what initially throws me off is the vocals and the fast guitar riffs. I probably just don't like screaming or growling or fast and fancy guitar playing (just for the fast and fancyness sake). And maybe this means I just can't ever be able to like metal.

I don't know if this post sounds completel naive, stupid, ill-informed and other bad things to metal enthusiasts. So any insight is welcomed. Am I doing something wrong? Maybe someone could give me, say 3, tips for important and diverse metal albums I should give a try.




PS. I once saw Metallica live at Roskilde Festival and it most certainly was one of the best shows I've ever been to.

[gimp]

perhaps dimmu borgir, or however you spell it, i like them.

[teajay]

Yea, jsim, I understand what you mean, and well, it is not like you do something wrong.

I got into metal by listening to Rammstein, Limp Bizkit, Queens Of The Stone Age, and then quickly Rage Against The Machine and Metallica etc. It's got to do with a curve indeed, once you like this and that, you might like something more.

What's hard, is that some metal lacks much of good production. In black metal even it is considered a pro if the mix sounds 'bad'. I do feel like music should sound rough at times, dissonant or discordant, and that vocals may contain rusty sides, instead of Timberlake smoothness (at times), but some vocals and riffs I hear in black metal are way beyond my taste.

What do you like about this song, jsim: http://youtube.com/watch?v=59ECtfLlZcQ

[J-sim]

What do you like about this song, jsim: http://youtube.com/watch?v=59ECtfLlZcQ

when he sings almost like james brown i start laughing. the rain and thunder sounds midway are just ridiculous. then the guitar solo kicks in and this is were it really gets bad. the first couple of minuts (ignoring the vocals) wasn't that bad though.
but i had heard some pantera before and i knew i didn't like it, so...

[teajay]

So what do you think about the rain in Prince's Purple Rain and the bad weather in November Rain by Guns N' Roses?
Could you also state what you find so bad about the solo, do you find it too fast, too much squealing, too unmelodic or what?

[Zweq]

more thrashy like, 80's. I know you were a fan of malmsteen, I wonder, I really tried, but I kinda dislike his music. :?

yeah I liked him when I was following technical playing and didn't know of better players, back in 2004. I kinda diss him nowadays, but although I haven't listened to him for about a year at all, I'd still say his album Odyssey from 1988 is a masterpiece. I just like the singer very much, Joe Lynn Turner ;P

edit: also, I've always been thinking a lot how does other people comments affect feelings towards band X. Do you start thinking "fuck them" or "hmm, maybe I should thinking is this really good music". For me it's kinda of both cases, like you can hear a million and one people dissing pantera, calling it overrated and all. That really never affected me, I think it's great music.

Same with slipknot, you can hear so damn many people calling them clowns whatever, but their album slipknot is so good that it still gives kicks after 8 years since first time hearing it. I could simply say, the band is popular for a reason.

What about korn? It was huge when I was teen, with follow the leader and issues albums, especially issues. Due to that I feel like it's teen music and don't even want to admit I once liked it. Fucked up? I guess so. But let's give it a shot: Issues is the best god damn album ever made <3. There you go for the teen years. Now let's never talk about it again that I once liked it, especially dont tell skint0r.

you catched my point.

In malmsteen's case for example other people dissing it so much (technical playing), I just had to recheck is this really good music, do I really like it, what's good in it. Well, I can't stand him at all nowadays, at least not on stage.

either way, at some point some of the old music you liked becomes annoying anyway. Due to mental progress or whatever you call it, you might think after 5 years "oh god, I really liked that once?"

[berhabdul]

Summoning | A Distant Flame Before the Sun
The Kovenant | Jihad
Thyrane | Crimson halls of blood
Children of Bodom | Every time i die
Burzum | Key to the gate
Finntroll | Midnattens widunder

those might be my all time favs, some new ive just found are Norther and Warmen, those are both pretty good

best genres in my opinion are black, death and folk metal. teh neo classical metal quite kick ass toa, basicly any metal that is nice and melodic.

you are just sick, i kill such people usually with a baseball bat

[insane guy]

although I listen to Reggae like 98% of the time, I still love some of the good old stuff I favoured from 12-18 or something.

Nasum (too bad lead singer died in Tsunami)

Melt Banana (only "metal" concert I ever went to, that was after I stopped listening regularly)

Nile (only have "Among the Catacombs.." LP but that does rock!)

Bad Acid Trip (maybe best band I know)

Final Exit (craaazyyy!)

Minch (Pizza Party)

Bongzilla (oh yea!)

damn tj you got me in the right mood to put some of the good old stuff in. Too bad Turntable is broken.

edit:

sorry almost forgot the best album I own:

Marilyn Manson - Portrait of an American Family

[8-ball]

Rap and metal doesn't mix, Slipknot, Korn etc gtfo plz, 10x.

My favs atm are the 'unordinary' bands that stand out of their respective subgenres or don't even fit in any (I seem to find gems in a lot of different genres): Unexpect, Solefald, Arcturus, Isis, Agalloch, Alcest, Windir, Summoning, Pelican, Ulver, Moonsorrow, Nokturnal Mortum, Strapping Young Lad, Skyforger, Neurosis, (early) Mayhem, Dream Theater, Dethklok, Anorexia Nervosa, My Dying Bride, The Gathering

Other than those I still like these a lot: Zyklon, Wintersun, Vintersorg, Tyr, Turisas, Tool, Swallow the Sun, Sunn O))), Suidakra, Sodom, Sirenia, Shining, Noumena, Neglected Fields, Nasum, Mors Principium Est, Eternal Tears of Sorrow, Insomnium, Ensiferum, Emperor, The Dillinger Escape Plan, Death Angel, Cult of Luna, Asmegin, Winds, Peccatum, Sigh, Ihsahn, Dodheimsgard, Age of Silence


Meant to add youtube links for all my favs but got bored so just search for them yourself if interested.

P.S. Not the best introductory post I could hope for..

[Zweq]

Rap and metal doesn't mix, Slipknot, Korn etc gtfo plz, 10x.

My favs atm are the 'unordinary' bands that stand out of their respective subgenres or don't even fit in any (I seem to find gems in a lot of different genres): Unexpect, Solefald, Arcturus, Isis, Agalloch, Alcest, Windir, Summoning, Pelican, Ulver, Moonsorrow, Nokturnal Mortum, Strapping Young Lad, Skyforger, Neurosis, (early) Mayhem, Dream Theater, Dethklok, Anorexia Nervosa, My Dying Bride, The Gathering

Other than those I still like these a lot: Zyklon, Wintersun, Vintersorg, Tyr, Turisas, Tool, Swallow the Sun, Sunn O))), Suidakra, Sodom, Sirenia, Shining, Noumena, Neglected Fields, Nasum, Mors Principium Est, Eternal Tears of Sorrow, Insomnium, Ensiferum, Emperor, The Dillinger Escape Plan, Death Angel, Cult of Luna, Asmegin, Winds, Peccatum, Sigh, Ihsahn, Dodheimsgard, Age of Silence


Meant to add youtube links for all my favs but got bored so just search for them yourself if interested.

P.S. Not the best introductory post I could hope for..

moonsorrow sounds najs, but usually when i try those less popular bands, they're just not good. Can learn to love a band though if listen to it very much, sort of grow to it. But still many of the "noname" bands simply suck, they have one or good two songs, but that's it. I always liked max if whole album is good, it's like put it rolling and have a trip while höyling elma or whateva, one hit wonder just doesn't make it.

http://up.k10x.net/bwokcnptkxsxy/blur.mp3

some really nice song of a band called "four", I tried really hard listening to other stuff by them, but they're simply horrible

[8-ball]

Almost none of the bands I mentioned have under 10k listeners in last.fm alone so I guess they're pretty well known globally (relatively if you know what I mean). And less known bands = suckier songs? That's just ridiculous, unless you mean those bands that have 10 ppl attending their concert at max, in which case I don't get how did my post relate to that.

[Zweq]

And less known bands = suckier songs?

yes and swedish girl = hawt. without an exception. wtf do you think?

I pretty much only said I have tried listening to many bands that aren't liek megapopular and most of them just sucked. I don't care if you had different experiences about it. Obviously you can fall love in some nigger band from ouagadougou that has 2 fans. Pretty much the whole point of my all posts here has been there's certain connection between popularity and quality. I know it's a tough one since music is always about taste, but I've found it to be that way.

My quotation wasn't exactly to argue about taste, mostly to praise moonsorrow a bit, followed by some random zamppe comments that weren't necessarily related to the quotation in any way.

[ExTeC]

i like this:
Kataklysm - cool old school death band! =)
In Flames - melodic death, old albums - very very good, new - ok =)
Immortal - i like this true black band, espeshially last album
Eluveitie - i have only 2006 album, but it's very cool it's folk/viking metal
Die Apokalyptischen Reiter - it's simply very good =)

Other here =>

[Uncle Milty]

@ Zweq:
Moonsorrow seems to be more unknown, than it is really...
and there arent just 1 ore 2 good songs on an album, there are just 1 or 2 songs ON an album! each ~20-30 minutes..
They make a song catching you for 20 minutes ... creativity, innovation, skill.
Sure: there are parts in, that are special for some matter, but in whole...
... i do not remember any other band that could catch you that long in one song.
Moonsorrow Live = great. although ive never been to a concert, its one of the things i have to, before i die^^

@ topic:
seeing mayhemguys drunken is shit.
do you remember comments and thought of many of the "blackmetal"guys saying, that those rock'n'roll mentality is nothing, that should be found in "real" "true" metalheads?
I think fenriz did comment on that, but doesnt seem to see it as important any more. Others are some german bands, that i remember most, like Nargaroth or Aaskereia.
Allmost all metalbands and listeners are some rockers, if you want, even those guys, that state, that this mentality leads to the degeneration of the music more and more.

So, they created a border between guys acting and living out the sex, drugs and rock'n'roll-thing and themselves, cause they didnt do or think in that way... of course not.

It doesnt matter, how one sees it, but what i wanted to show is, that there was/is another ideology existent. plz dont trivialize it in the way, that this all is just rock'n'roll^^

[A.K.B.]

I saw the title of the topic and thought aloud: Shit music.

[wjelo]

and i saw there's an AKB post in the topic and thought: shit post
unlike you, i was right, couse you are just too fucking reserved to say "i don't like (sumtin)" and instead you're like "it fucking sax"; whatever the discussion is about. even if you aren't serious intolerance is a common issue :P

back to the subject, i do not listen to metal, i prefere hard rock
the Pantera song tj posted is a good example of what i don't like in music: it just sounds too random, chaotic to me. the melody just isn't catchy for me, the pace changes too often, riffs are too heavy and solo also seems random and chaotic, not mentioning that it's monotonous

tj, you wrote sumtin bout last.fm here but still you didn't reply to my PM there ;D

[teajay]

You know, when I was listening to the radio in the car a while ago, and we had this dance station on, I noticed something about the live mix that some dj was throwing at us; his music had some very boring pattern in it. I just couldn't like it anymore since I heard that thing.

Funny thing is, I find that floods song rather long, with many repeating patterns. But then the solo comes and finally brings something new to the whole track. You find it random, and I wonder why. I listen to it, and hear the notes perfectly running over the underlying harmony. I do hear perhaps the reason why you find it not appealing: many false harmonics (the squeals) and extended notes with some whammy bar applied to it.

I find this the same in jazz; some like bebop, others hate it, and find it fast and random etc.
That doesn't mean we can dismiss this subject now. What do you guys find about this so-called new wave of mathcore bands and their experimentations with dissonances in riffs and vocals? I find some stuff rather good!

edit: Yes, I never got logged on in last.fm, for some reason, and when I do now, it sets to german, and however much I set it back to english and delete cookies etc, it always reverts to german..

[chux]

DT, FTW. Not metally metal though, I guess...

Im not into the harder, blacker, deathier metal. Screaming and all that, not for me.

Im ok with the more user friendly metal like SOAD though, for some reason. But stuff like Hammerfall I just find funny.

[teajay]

Metal is anything that is metal. Dream Theater is metal, sure enough. System Of A Down is metal, and kicks it yes, some songs are annoying to me though, but what band is perfect all the way?

By the way, topic name is just inspired by tenacious d's song "THE METAL", which is funny enough to refer to. You know, I find death metal like deicide and cannibal corpse worse to listen to than those things on youtube, somehow. I do think I should try to listen to it more, because all those people liking it should mean there's something good in it, the old-fashioned death metal. But this band Nile was really disappointing for me..

[epp]

hei tijsjoris and everybody else!
one of the most important aspects of metal for me is the brutality of the vocals - this might seem silly and of course i dont judge the music solely on the vocal. and i do listen to alot of metal with lesser vocal emphasis and other genres, but in metal i rely heavily on the rough vocals. a good example of the music i prefer would be the songs vanadis by falkenbach and jumalten kaupunki by moonsorrow.

besides the vocals, it depends on the subgenre what i seek in it. in death metal such as obituary and bolt thrower you might notice that the vocals are off the fucking chain. the riffs are typical for those 2 bands which means they are badass. in other genres though, such as black metal, its not the vocals (dont get me wrong, they are good, but theyre not as crucial compared to other genres) or the killer riffs, but the atmosphere. here im talking about bands such as wyrd and drudkh. moving on to the folk metal, its more the melody and odd fusion of metal and folk instruments. an example of two very different bands, but which are both regarded as "folk metal" (well to get technical i think rivendell is more of a "black folk metal" band) are rivendell and ensiferum.

http://www.last.fm/user/JeppeGade/

[epp]

Metal is anything that is metal. Dream Theater is metal, sure enough. System Of A Down is metal, and kicks it yes, some songs are annoying to me though, but what band is perfect all the way?

By the way, topic name is just inspired by tenacious d's song "THE METAL", which is funny enough to refer to. You know, I find death metal like deicide and cannibal corpse worse to listen to than those things on youtube, somehow. I do think I should try to listen to it more, because all those people liking it should mean there's something good in it, the old-fashioned death metal. But this band Nile was really disappointing for me..

when i hear the word "metal" i think of bolt thrower. bolt thrower is just so fucking metal ;D

[A.K.B.]

I saw the thread and I thought: Shit music.

[teajay]

I saw the thread and I thought: Shit music.

Just fuck off will you

[A.K.B.]

I saw the thread and I thought: "Hmm this sort of music sounds like my eardrums are being ripped out by a rusty hot metal bar shaped like berh's penis."

[zworqy]

I saw the thread and I thought: Shit music.

Mostly true, but there are exceptions of course.

[8-ball]

GTFO.

[A.K.B.]

Of course there are exceptions, just like in all sorts of music.

Except rap.

[Are]

A couple of my favorite bands on the blacker side of metal:

Immortal (luckily I don't have to watch the band photos while listening to the music, or I might die laughing)
Dimmu Borgir
Mayhem
Dødheimsgard (also known as DHG)
Satyricon
Emperor


And some of my favorite bands on the less black side:

Metallica (all-time favorite)
Sepultura
Soulfly
Rammstein
Guns N' Roses
Korn


And, finally, some favorites that are probably lesser known:

The Sins of Thy Beloved
Myriads
Dismal Euphony
Khold
Zyklon
Disiplin
Troll
Taake

[8-ball]

Just realized how fucking badass early In Flames were, like Subterranean and such. Just amazing. Normally I don't care if bands sell out but this is just sad.

Other than that, received my Agalloch DVD a week ago or so (my first music purchase, not counting merchandise). Easily the most enjoyable metal band I know.

METAL

[Bismuth]

I like metal a bit more than before, though imo, screaming is pure fucking shit. And those wtf solos with three guitars up his ass just to show off his insane capability of making noise, I don't get it neither. I also think that drums are often just "BABNDNADISNDOANSDOANMSDOMSAODNMSONDS" everywhere the fastest possible. But I like very much some of those guitar riffs (like the one in B.Y.O.B. and the awesome ones of Master of Puppets). Master of Puppets is actually the best metal song I've ever heard, I even like it enough to listen to it by myself sometimes.

[roope]

Try Mercyful Fate and listen to the solos and drums, ez ear orgasm.

Cute first post I have here

[Grace]

Try Mercyful Fate and listen to the solos and drums, ez ear orgasm.

Cute first post I have here

ye was giggling when i read it yesterday ^^

[ExTeC]

i like this:
Kataklysm - cool old school death band! =)
In Flames - melodic death, old albums - very very good, new - ok =)
Immortal - i like this true black band, espeshially last album
Eluveitie - i have only 2006 album, but it's very cool it's folk/viking metal
Die Apokalyptischen Reiter - it's simply very good =)

Other here =>

2 years have passed...
Agalloch
Death
Emperor
Lucifugum
Lutomysl
Nokturnal Mortum
Peste Noire
Sadist
Sepultura
Windir

[totem]

I'm not very metal, but listened to Brain Drill recently, and found it listenable

[Polarix]

This is what I have SORTED atm. Perhaps some of the genres is wrong, but I did my best with the little time I had:

3 Inches of Blood (Power Metal) (Discography)
Alien Force (Power Metal) (Discography)
Anathema (Goth/Doom Metal) (Discography)
Apocalyptica (Instrumental/Folk Metal) (Discography)
Black Sabbath (Heavy Metal) (Discography)
Cradle of Filth (Goth/Doom Metal) (Discography)
Crimfall (Folk Metal)
Dimmu Borgir (Black Metal) (Discography)
Disturbed (Heavy Metal)
Dragon Force (Speed Metal)(Discography)
Dream Theatre (Prog Metal)
Finntroll (Folk Metal) (Discography)
Gammaray (Power Metal) (Discography)
Gravemachine (Power Metal)
Gravestone (Power Metal)
Hammerfall (Power Metal) (Discography)
Helloween (Power Metal) (Discography)
In Flames (Death Metal)
Iron Maiden (Power Metal) (Discography)
John 5 (Alternative Metal) (Discography)
Judas Priest (Power Metal) (Discography)
Keep of Kalessin (Black Metal) (Discography)
Korpiklaani (Folk Metal) (Discography)
Kreator (Trash Metal)
Manowar (Power Metal) (Discography)
Megadeth (Trash Metal)
Metallica (Trash/Psy Metal) (Discography)
Moonspell (Goth/Doom Metal) (Discography)
My Dying Bride (Goth/Doom Metal) (Discography)
Nightwish (Goth Metal)(Discography)
Northern Kings (Nu Metal/Power Metal) (Discography)
Omen (Power Metal) (Discography)
Opeth (Prog Death Metal) (Discography)
Pantera (Heavy/Trash/Groove Metal) (Discography)
Paradise Lost (Goth/Doom Metal) (Discography)
Rammstein (Industrial Metal)
Satyricon (Trash Metal) (Discography)
Saxon (Power Metal) (Discography)
Sepeltura (Groove Metal) (Discography)
Slayer (Trash Metal) (Discography)
Symphony X (Symp/Prog Metal) (Discography)
Stormwitch (Power Metal) (Discography)
Tarot (Power Metal) (Discography)
Theatre of Tragedy (Goth/Doom Metal) (Discography)
The Gathering (Goth Metal) (Discography)
Trail of Tears (Goth/Doom Metal) (Discography)
Tristania (Goth/Doom Metal) (Discography)
Type O Negative (Goth/Doom Metal) (Discography)
Tyrant (Black Metal) (Discography)
Ultima Thule (Viking Metal) (Discography)
Ulver (Death/Folk Metal) (Discography)
Windir (black/Folk and viking Metal) (Discography)
Within Temptation (Goth Metal) (Discography)

[roope]

Don't like to be a genre whiner but these few just jump into my eyes immediately. Cradle of Filth has nothing doom-ish and Ulver's never been even close to death metal, I'd replace the word death with black.

btw
http://www.mikseri.net/playsong.php?id=410488
might have been drunk

[A.K.B.]

Here Comes the Kraken

Goddamn listen to their song "The Legend of the Rent is Way Hardcore" The drumming is unbelievable!

[pawq]

my favs at the moment are:
opeth
pain of salvation
symphony x
sepultura
slayer
metallica
khoma
godsmack
evergrey
dream theater
black sabbath

[Polarix]

Don't like to be a genre whiner but these few just jump into my eyes immediately. Cradle of Filth has nothing doom-ish and Ulver's never been even close to death metal, I'd replace the word death with black.

Yeah, I don't know why I wrote death metal for Ulver, was supposed to be black. But actually the new ulver is more like industrial metal.
Cradle of Filth, I havent had time to listen to it yet, just picked up some songs and sounded like doom for me, but i dunno. Ive heard its generally goth or is it black?

Another thing Roope, i went through Darkthrone today and saw where you got your avatar
Transilvanian Hunger 1995
Since you have the cover as your avatar i should listen through the album immediately

[roope]

8D ye, very legendary album.

[Bludek]

Yeeee Transilvanian Hunger is only very very cool and listenable album from Darkthrone. Other albums are too oldschool and not so legendary, cool, enjoyable and so on..

Btw best cover vid of Darkthrone is definitely Trannsillveinian Munchies http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AunQf6d_-KI
You'll probably enjoy it even though you don't know Darktrone. But if you do, you'll enjoy it even more.