I wish someone could make as good levels as me

[Ramone]

This year you may think I stopped to play elma. But I guess truth is. Most levels are just too boring and these days I only play my own levels offline. I still play abit almost every day. Just too bad there is no skilled levelmakers (like me) out there. When I play my own levels I am always amaised by all new tricks and styles I can find. Unplanned just great levels. I wish there were someone else to make levels to get me interested in joining scene/EOL or whatever. As I feel right now I am way better off playing alone offline, since I dont expect to find better levs than my own anywhere else there is just no use. No offense to anyone, you just cant make good enough levels. Not in my taste. Only thing that I see at this point that would bring me back is a new WC (not to play but just to cruise and check for styles/test the levs etc) or if EOL Cup-mode would work proper. then I would probably try to make a cup of my own or maybe with my teammates from TAP. But I dont see that happen. But, if I am mistaken, please correct me, if there are some new good levmaker out there please let me know, maybe worth to fix working EOL again. But be aware, Im damn picky about levs and this year I grew even pickier.

[Igge]

I almost exclusively play my own levels as well, and have done so for many years. You're not special.

[zebra]

I have the same problem too. However, I'm making a new level editor. With it you can make only good levels so it will solve the problem

[Zweq]

I think you all guys have a repetitive design style, pretty much everyone has the same problem. I kinda like when ppl change their patterns and create something fucked up. There must be many possibilities with lev design and lev atmoesphere taht aren't explored, because ppl tend to follow others designs and examples

[pawq]

i never liked your levs ram because of their boryngness. always loved igge's though

[Grace]

Igge, CommonSeb and waszi are the only other level makers that i love ALL levs they make. I quite enjoy my own levels though.

[A.K.B.]

>A.K.B. leaves scene
>Ramone complains about lack of quality in levels

This correlation is no coincidence people!

Seriously, you all need to pick up your socks and abide by the A.K.B. two step principle to better levels:

1. Grass
2. Test

[Chris]

I think you all guys have a repetitive design style, pretty much everyone has the same problem. I kinda like when ppl change their patterns and create something fucked up. There must be many possibilities with lev design and lev atmoesphere taht aren't explored, because ppl tend to follow others designs and examples

You never play when I start my battles.

[squiike]

I miss the old elma scene, where the levels were about Olliz difficulty, and were more about exploration and adventure. Now it seems people only make battle or pipe levels that are similar to the internal levs.

And for gods sake, can someone with skills make a couple of Sonic levels, as i suggested in my earlier post?
It is PERFECT for elma!
It has different ways to choose from (in original green hill lvl from sonic 1 on genesis), and pipes even.

[Lousku]

What's keeping you from making Sonic levs yourself?

[Orcc]

I see ramone's point in this topic

http://elmaonline.net/battles/43216

[Ramone]

Haha Orcc

[umiz]

I think there is alot of active and skilled levmakers in EOL.
For example: Jeppe, Ali, JDS, kabii, kestas, etc. Also a levmaker like zweq is good for community, cause i could never do levs like him (to hard and to ugly).

Ofcourse there is some levmakers that just put up shit and always with teh quote: "untested" (and is proud over it!?).
When i make ballelevs i test beisik styles and make sum teoretical style, and quite often the respons is that lev is good. But sometimes u fail as a levmaker, i think thats included in the process of making perfect levels.

I miss the old elma scene, where the levels were about Olliz difficulty, and were more about exploration and adventure...

First Finnish levels? I think there is some of them every now and then.

Ramone i think you should join back in EOL and dont feed your narcism by playing only your own levs

[Hosp]

I am one of those pretty often saying 'untested', because, untested levels are the best, most of the time.
But I also do normal levels, but those are more boring imo, but I mostly start lots of shit 'untested' because of this: ELMA is fucking dead. There are like only a few hours each day with balles, rest none, ofc during mornings I can start shit if I want to then, sicne nobody otheres will start even though they always say NEW NEW NEw, I always say that too but at least I start sometimes, not as often these days though.

[Zweq]

I dont see how elma is dead. Lots of wrs made, players online list spewing invalid table message once again which means about 70 players online. I think we are more like in a stabile state. We are not growing, but we are not shrinking either. It's been 5 and a half years since major patch... sure mila did a lot of work to refine the systems afterwards, but online was the big thing. I think about 99.9% of video games survive only with constant developer support and content patches, then there is this 0.1%

[umiz]

I am one of those pretty often saying 'untested', because, untested levels are the best, most of the time.
But I also do normal levels, but those are more boring imo, but I mostly start lots of shit 'untested' because of this: ELMA is fucking dead. There are like only a few hours each day with balles, rest none, ofc during mornings I can start shit if I want to then, sicne nobody otheres will start even though they always say NEW NEW NEw, I always say that too but at least I start sometimes, not as often these days though.

I changed my mind. Untested levs can ofcourse be really good, but its important that they are tested in mind. I also start sum untested levs but they are tested and evaluated in ma mind. I think u do the same Hosp, because u make good levs. Those who dont even test levs in mind, those are the bastards. I wanna puke when i hear about autogenerated levs, so uncreative.

Levmaking is all about creativity! Lets create

[Lousku]

lol @ umiz essentially saying the same thing as Ramone. There is no correct way to make levs. Personally this year I've enjoyed zweq's levs much more than any of those "good" designers you listed. Sure, I enjoy their levs too, but zweq actually comes up with unique shit every once in a while. There are no objective arguments either way. Just realize you're being an elitist over vector maps.

[pawq]

I think about 99.9% of video games survive only with constant developer support and content patches, then there is this 0.1%

That's partly why elma is so special :') And in no way dead, damn you hosp!!! !!

I disagree about goodness of untestedness, mostly because my fav levs were k0en/pigge type of levs, which due to their amazing flow usually seemed to be tested :) On umiz's latest thought: I think the problem is that people tend to overtest levels, making them too obvious and linear, that's why untested levels often seem to be more fun - they are full of surprises. But once a proper levmaker tests his levs in a proper manner, it's all for good =)

Plus, I think the only truly BAD in every sense and meaning levmaker is TL -.-

[Lousku]

Plus, I think the only truly BAD in every sense and meaning levmaker is TL -.-

Why? I still like his levs occasionally. Clearly others do too since his battles keep being played.

[Madness]

I dont see how elma is dead. Lots of wrs made, players online list spewing invalid table message once again which means about 70 players online.

70 players online out of 7.054 billion world population is nothing. Elma players are an endangered species on the brink of extinction.

Plus, half of those 70 players are usually idle.

[pawq]

Elma players are an endangered species on the brink of extinction.

On a brink of extinction? Please tell me how millions of players were hoyling elma 5 years ago.
Elma community has always been minute, but that doesn't mean it's going to die, the size is in its nature. The only moment when elma might possibly die, is when all current elmans get married and (then) EOL stops being hosted. Not soon fo' sho' ;)

[Madness]

The only moment when elma might possibly die, is when all current elmans get married and (then) EOL stops being hosted.

No, it's actually much easier. If some Zweq, Kazan and a couple more pros quit Elma, it would be completely dead all of a sudden. Trust me.

[Lousku]

The only moment when elma might possibly die, is when all current elmans get married and (then) EOL stops being hosted.

No, it's actually much easier. If some Zweq, Kazan and a couple more pros quit Elma, it would be completely dead all of a sudden. Trust me.

Internals maybe. I think playing externals will continue after internals are dead.

[Madness]

As you can see, there are barely any cups nowadays, and when there are, few players are interested in participating. Why? Because the competition is too low. The same will eventually happen to EOL battles if there are few pros to compete against.

[pawq]

I don't give a shit about cups and I rarely play battles. Yet, I play elma on a daily basis, more than any other game.

[umiz]

lol @ umiz essentially saying the same thing as Ramone. There is no correct way to make levs. Personally this year I've enjoyed zweq's levs much more than any of those "good" designers you listed. Sure, I enjoy their levs too, but zweq actually comes up with unique shit every once in a while. There are no objective arguments either way. Just realize you're being an elitist over vector maps.

I agree there is no "correct" way of making levs, and as i said zweq-kindoff-levs really is needed. And i am absolutley not an elitist... mostly i like almost every level i play (except uphill cause i suck at such). Its just when the Elma-year is over and i have to pick out some great designers, then my choice is prbly some of these i guys i listed. Just realize u misunderstood me if u think im a elitist.

[Tigro]

As you can see, there are barely any cups nowadays, and when there are, few players are interested in participating. Why? Because the competition is too low. The same will eventually happen to EOL battles if there are few pros to compete against.

or the competition is too high. it bores me when i play some FF and Kazan/Markku/Zweq is online. No chance of winning. I better play other games then. They provide more fun.

[Orcc]

As you can see, there are barely any cups nowadays, and when there are, few players are interested in participating. Why? Because the competition is too low.

I think people don't play cups because it takes so much time to do well in them. Most of the guys are casual players, höyling 15 minutes every now and then. Playing the same lev for hours to reach top 5 position just doesn't pay off.

[Madness]

As you can see, there are barely any cups nowadays, and when there are, few players are interested in participating. Why? Because the competition is too low. The same will eventually happen to EOL battles if there are few pros to compete against.

or the competition is too high. it bores me when i play some FF and Kazan/Markku/Zweq is online. No chance of winning. I better play other games then. They provide more fun.

You are an exception. All other normal people want to play battles with better players than themselves.

Playing the same lev for hours to reach top 5 position just doesn't pay off.

It pays off a lot. If there's good competition, winning a cup event is much more valuable than winning a random 10 minute EOL battle. Also if you end up 10th after 2 weeks of intensive hoyling and considering your time to be perfect, you tend to learn more from your mistakes and avoid them next time.

[Tigro]

i just don´t find it entertaining to play against players from another planet.

[pawq]

As you can see, there are barely any cups nowadays, and when there are, few players are interested in participating. Why? Because the competition is too low. The same will eventually happen to EOL battles if there are few pros to compete against.

or the competition is too high. it bores me when i play some FF and Kazan/Markku/Zweq is online. No chance of winning. I better play other games then. They provide more fun.

You are an exception.

he's not

Playing the same lev for hours to reach top 5 position just doesn't pay off.

It pays off a lot. If there's good competition, winning a cup event is much more valuable than winning a random 10 minute EOL battle.

99,9% of people are not able to win an event

You need to remember that you are in a minority in terms of skills madness, as Orcc said - most of the guys are casual elmers, not superpro hoylas like yourself

[Chris]

I dont see how elma is dead. Lots of wrs made, players online list spewing invalid table message once again which means about 70 players online.

70 players online out of 7.054 billion world population is nothing. Elma players are an endangered species on the brink of extinction.

Plus, half of those 70 players are usually idle.

I know other games that at launch were much bigger than elma ever was and now are literally dead. At EOL when I start battle there are always 4-5 people playing it, at almost any time of day. And to those who say that Elma is dead because no one plays it at 5-8 am. I know that TF2, despite being AAA multiplayer title that were sold in millions of copies, even at year of release at 8-10 am I had troubles with finding severs with people in European zone. Elma is not going to die anytime soon.

edit: typo

[Zweq]

sure there's plenty o' games from 90s that are played still today. Yes people play fallout(97), yes people play transport tycoon(94), yes people play doom(93), but they dont play them every week for 12 years. At least I can't think of any point playing those games _that much_. The battle scene is very weird magic in terms of gaming, it is so fucking fast to make remarkable 'ministory' i still dont get it :p Trackmania is only thing that gets somewhat close to elma, but in trackmania bloody slow to make a map and new 'tricks' are like 0.1 shaves. Funny how 2D game is so 3D and 3D game so 2D

[Lousku]

lol @ umiz essentially saying the same thing as Ramone. There is no correct way to make levs. Personally this year I've enjoyed zweq's levs much more than any of those "good" designers you listed. Sure, I enjoy their levs too, but zweq actually comes up with unique shit every once in a while. There are no objective arguments either way. Just realize you're being an elitist over vector maps.

I agree there is no "correct" way of making levs, and as i said zweq-kindoff-levs really is needed. And i am absolutley not an elitist... mostly i like almost every level i play (except uphill cause i suck at such). Its just when the Elma-year is over and i have to pick out some great designers, then my choice is prbly some of these i guys i listed. Just realize u misunderstood me if u think im a elitist.

Oh hm, now I'm not sure what I thought you meant, but ye, misunderstood some part. Posted right after waking up. Sorry.

Imo any ungodly random mash of polygons can turn out good. Usually the safest way is to test levels, but the funnest results come when you make a bunch of bullshit levs and one turns out to be something sick (happens pretty often without any testing at all).

[Tigro]

i repeatedly come across a problem, that i overtest level, which results in balleing shit stuff.

[anpdad]

with current skill levels, overtesting is about as bad as making reckless mishmash of polygons which would obviously not work. It could leave very little to players' imagination and hence make the battle boring. Imo usually the best balles are the ones that come close to these extremes, but not close enough to start producing negative impact to lev quality.

[pawq]

Imo any ungodly random mash of polygons can turn out good.

Sure! But you certainly need talent for that, my levs of that kind are always shit ;D

[teajay]

When I played a lot I never tested my levels, and it resulted in unfinishable levels a couple of times, but also in some very good levels with very weird styles. Soon I could make levels that were always finishable and always untested, and took me about 1 minute to make. Ofcourse those maps weren't made totally random, but the idea of roughness is what can make a level a true battle, because the style is not obvious (although sometimes would get compliments about "nice styles" and stuff - I was always surprised what people could do).

The good thing about some older levels is that they feel faster and cruisy to play, because they're actually bigger than today's levels and involve more driving around than actually performing hangs, bounces and apple collecting in the small area. I think there lies a great challenge for today's levmakers.

[Labs]

As you can see, there are barely any cups nowadays, and when there are, few players are interested in participating. Why? Because the competition is too low. The same will eventually happen to EOL battles if there are few pros to compete against.

or the competition is too high. it bores me when i play some FF and Kazan/Markku/Zweq is online. No chance of winning. I better play other games then. They provide more fun.

You are an exception.

he's not

Playing the same lev for hours to reach top 5 position just doesn't pay off.

It pays off a lot. If there's good competition, winning a cup event is much more valuable than winning a random 10 minute EOL battle.

99,9% of people are not able to win an event

You need to remember that you are in a minority in terms of skills madness, as Orcc said - most of the guys are casual elmers, not superpro hoylas like yourself

Nah, i think 30% of people could win an event, just have to test lev styles and play many on the lev and dont give up after 1-2 hours, when you think its ok time. Ok time will never win, you have to play like 20 hours to win an event if you are a normal player, but still, its possible.

[BlaZtek]

EET FUK, this is only my opinion ( and I just write it down cause Im boored)

I think 80 % of your levs Ramone is like dog poo, they are based on the same 1000 hangs in the sky, seriously unfun for me to play.
So braging about your pro levs is making me lol a little
Tho I know ppl like your levs more then mine, but EET FUK... Dont take this too serious, but plz grow some beard

I dont have a comp anymore, It sax... Please rich mans send me one

[Hosp]

What you mean by EET FUK all the time?

[Zweq]

can we be certain of mopolauta security due to weird shit like edited tigro avatar, retarded goofu, retarded blaztek

[BlaZtek]

I dont think zweq have beard... Also I think Hosp never EET FUK before.

[Tigro]

i smell new entry in my ignore list.