religion of peace

[milagros]

Yeah, old testament god is fucking evil, but jesus seems like a nice guy. On the other hand allah and muhammad are evil too.
Your wrong assumption is that the people from syria / eritrea / afghanistan are the same as you, they just happened to have bad luck to be born in the wrong country. However, they are already fucked up and it is too late for them. There was no real war in europe for last 70 years are people forgot. But it was their every day's life for years and it's too late for them to change. The only hope is that they stop blame everyone else (jews, white, america) for they problem and start from the scratch in they own country and then there is a chance at least for their children that they will grow up. Atm the only thing they can bring to europe is suffering, poverty, terrorism and misery.

[Ruben]

Yeah, old testament god is fucking evil, but jesus seems like a nice guy. On the other hand allah and muhammad are evil too.
Your wrong assumption is that the people from syria / eritrea / afghanistan are the same as you, they just happened to have bad luck to be born in the wrong country. However, they are already fucked up and it is too late for them. There was no real war in europe for last 70 years are people forgot. But it was their every day's life for years and it's too late for them to change. The only hope is that they stop blame everyone else (jews, white, america) for they problem and start from the scratch in they own country and then there is a chance at least for their children that they will grow up. Atm the only thing they can bring to europe is suffering, poverty, terrorism and misery.

"They" as you call them, even the fucked up ones, are in any case not representative of all Muslims. They also have the ability to give a lot to Europe, but as it stands Europe refuses to help them, even though we can, and that's why we will not gain anything either.

[milagros]

"They" as you call them, even the fucked up ones, are in any case not representative of all Muslims. They also have the ability to give a lot to Europe, but as it stands Europe refuses to help them, even though we can, and that's why we will not gain anything either.

i doubt they can.. if they do, they should probably try back at home

[Tigro]

I basically agree with mila. The only problem I see with Ruben's arguments is (and mila actually mentioned it, but i guess Ruben doesn't emphasise that enough) the fact that you cannot treat and judge muslims by your (western, humanistic) point of view. For example, saying that they are people too and they deserve something and should be treated equally, yada yada blah blah etc etc... If you went to their country you would be assraped by their policies and their laws. They think totally differently, treat others differently; truth means something different to them, law means something different, freedom means something different as what it means for you. Different culture doesn't mean they just eat kebab and wear burkahs. Their whole mindset is completely different to ours.
Did you know that a muslim is allowed to lie the shit out of you and don't call it a lie/sin because you are infidelous bastard? You know that muslim women who try to make a change in islamic countries etc. do it just because they have seen a glimpse of the western part of the world and try to mimic it?
Also, as I said before and it shouldn't be neglected:
A christian who helps other people and think of them first, is a christian because that's what his authorities (Bible in this case) tell him to do.
A christian who molests kids or slaughters someone is not a christian, because that is not what his authorities tell him to do.
A muslim who helps other people and gives alms to the poor is a muslim because that's what his authorities (Mekka part of Quran in this case) tell him to do.
A muslim who kills slaves, rapes and beats women is still a muslim because that's what his authorities (Medina part of Quran) tell him to do.
Also it needs to be mentioned, that Mekka Quran is the earlier and more peaceful part of the Quran. Since Muhammad travelled to Medina from Mekka, the Quran written there was extremly violent. Also note that there is a principle in muslim sharia law, which says that the later texts override the earlier ones. Together with the "holy lie" (as I wrote above) it creates an easy demagogic effect on nonbelievers, by saying: "Look here, Quran tells us that we should help others and live peacefully." A hundred pages later there is "If you can't convert them, kill them all." (paraphrasing). Of course the killing ultimately overrides the helping. Muslims will use whatever they just find suitable for the conditions they are in.
Lastly, pls stop saying anything about KKK being a christian sect or what. It is completely unrelated to the beliefs that christians have.

[milagros]

Ruben, the main problem is that they tell you what you want to hear. If they are on they own, they have completely different opinions. You are norwegian, so here you have a nice norwegian example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FgI9TdE7gE
There you see quite many muslims, not just 5-10, agreeing with all that bullshit. Maybe you are one of them:)

[Ruben]

A christian who helps other people and think of them first, is a christian because that's what his authorities (Bible in this case) tell him to do.
A christian who molests kids or slaughters someone is not a christian, because that is not what his authorities tell him to do.
A muslim who helps other people and gives alms to the poor is a muslim because that's what his authorities (Mekka part of Quran in this case) tell him to do.
A muslim who kills slaves, rapes and beats women is still a muslim because that's what his authorities (Medina part of Quran) tell

Have you even read the Bible? If Christians were to follow that then the world would be a truly terrible place. It's full of tirades about eternal hellfire and how important it is to kill any infedel who won't convert. Once again, the problem is that you believe all Muslims follow every passage of the Quran like slaves, while at the same time dismissing anything horrible in the Bible for some reason. I don't like any religion, but this anti-islam rhetoric is making me nauseous. Sure, there are problems in many Muslim countries, just like there is in many other places on Earth. The solution is never to condemn 2 billion people.

I'll end with some nice excerpts from the Bible, and I will also hereby assume that all Chrstians agree with everything that follows, just as you assume all Muslims agree with everything in the Quran:

“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

“In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” (Romans 1:27)

Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. (Leviticus 19:19)

Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. (Matthew 21:18-22 NIV) (I think Jesus had a temper problem)

He executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them…. He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD’s Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. (2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT)

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. (Deuteronomy 21:18-21) (On the subject of stoning...)

Whosoever … hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookback, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken. He shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries. (Leviticus 21:17-23 KJV)

I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and their daughters, and they will eat each other's flesh in the siege and distress that their enemies, those who want to take their life, inflict on them. (Jeremiah 19:9)

I could go on forever, but I think this adequitely illustrates my point. All Christians are evil. They are completely backwards, their views are outdated and they don't belong in the modern world.

[Ruben]

Ruben, the main problem is that they tell you what you want to hear. If they are on they own, they have completely different opinions. You are norwegian, so here you have a nice norwegian example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FgI9TdE7gE
There you see quite many muslims, not just 5-10, agreeing with all that bullshit. Maybe you are one of them:)

I'd like to clearify here that I don't think this is fine. Any immigrant, no matter where he's from, should adapt to the culture he's entered. In fact, he has to in order to stay/survive.

What's funny is that the rich pricks over on the right side think foreign countries should also adapt to Norwegian vacation culture. Just look at how some parts of Spain have been completely wrecked by Scandinavian tourists who refuse to learn Spanish. Anyone who comes to Norway, however, should learn Norwegian within two weeks or get thrown out.

Anyway, I think everybody should just let go of their religious fantasies, and start worshipping something that actully matters, like the Earth and the Sun. The Sun is our life and the Earth is our home, and if we don't treat them with respect we will die.

[milagros]

Any immigrant, no matter where he's from, should adapt to the culture he's entered.

I fully agree, unfortunately, as you could see in the past 50 years, it is not going to happen.

What's funny is that the rich pricks over on the right side think foreign countries should also adapt to Norwegian vacation culture.

I also agree, but I have no idea what's special about the norwegian vacation culture. Anyway, if for example Saudi Arabia wants to have any rules they like, it's their decision. I just don't want that to be spread to Europe.

The Sun is our life and the Earth is our home, and if we don't treat them with respect we will die.

i treat sun with a lot of respect, but that shitty ball will run out of hydrogen in 1-2 B years:/

[Tigro]

Have you even read the Bible?

MuhahahhahHAHAhBHAHAAHAHAHAA
ehm.. sorry.

I could go on forever, but I think this adequitely illustrates my point. All Christians are evil. They are completely backwards, their views are outdated and they don't belong in the modern world.

Thanks for really exhaustive list of all the reasons why Christians are shitty people who want to erradicate all the others from the face of the Earth. tbh I didn't even read those verses, just looked at the references and immediately knew which one you quoted because I have had this debate so many times that it starts to be tiresome and boring. And I am not going to explain or deny anything concerning these verses because it would be beating the air. You literally quoted a POEM and deduced that Christians are evil. Good job.

Ok, so just very briefly: All the Leviticus posts lack any sort of context which is extremly important to understand what it is about.
Did you know that there is a verse in the Bible which states: "There is no God"? Oh yeah, there is. And after that, there is said: "A fool says so". So quoting one single verse and deducing anything is completely off.

The quote from Ephesians is a good one, but needless to say, it also means that men should be responsible towards their wives and treat them with respect etc. etc. but what do I know.

Peter talking about 'slaves' to obey their lords etc. is again a context and culture specific, as well as you depict 'slaves' as a nigger who carries a big stone on his back and his master lashes his whip upon him. Pls trash that. 'slave' in this context means 'servant', who lives with them in their house, eats at their table and in return of his service to his master he gets to live in his house, gets food and clothing and everyhthing they need etc. etc. I have already discussed this with culi and really don't want to repeat myself.

Since I can quote Bible as well, here is just one simple thing:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 5:38-39. Shortly after, in Matthew 7:12 there Jesus says: “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. This with "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' are basically the only things you need to do to be a Christian. Love God, and love others.
But I REALLY don't want to get into a Bibleverse war.

[milagros]

i think the main difference between christians and muslims is 600 years
christians now generally accept the time with crusades, witch hunting, inquisitions and killing infidels in the name of their god is over

[Madness]

I don't know anything about this, but Muslims seem to defend the Quran the exact same way Tigro is defending the Bible.

"It's taken out of context."
"It's inaccurately translated."
"In other verse it says [...]"

What I've usually heard from them is pretty much the same as what's written in this link. Can anyone who has read the Quran disprove any of that?

Also, how do you imagine banning Islam in some countries, mila? That's just not possible.

[milagros]

Can anyone who has read the Quran disprove any of that?

Bible is free of interpretations, you can handpick parts and choose which ones are more important than others. Quran (or however you spell it, i've seen also the Koran, Qur'an, ..) strictly says that if two verses contradict, the latter overwrites previous commands. Those "peaceful" verses were written first;)

Also, how do you imagine banning Islam in some countries, mila? That's just not possible.

Yeah, kinda too late. On the other hand fascism and in some countries communism is banned too.

[Ruben]

Have you even read the Bible?

MuhahahhahHAHAhBHAHAAHAHAHAA
ehm.. sorry.

I could go on forever, but I think this adequitely illustrates my point. All Christians are evil. They are completely backwards, their views are outdated and they don't belong in the modern world.

Thanks for really exhaustive list of all the reasons why Christians are shitty people who want to erradicate all the others from the face of the Earth. tbh I didn't even read those verses, just looked at the references and immediately knew which one you quoted because I have had this debate so many times that it starts to be tiresome and boring. And I am not going to explain or deny anything concerning these verses because it would be beating the air. You literally quoted a POEM and deduced that Christians are evil. Good job.

Ok, so just very briefly: All the Leviticus posts lack any sort of context which is extremly important to understand what it is about.
Did you know that there is a verse in the Bible which states: "There is no God"? Oh yeah, there is. And after that, there is said: "A fool says so". So quoting one single verse and deducing anything is completely off.

The quote from Ephesians is a good one, but needless to say, it also means that men should be responsible towards their wives and treat them with respect etc. etc. but what do I know.

Peter talking about 'slaves' to obey their lords etc. is again a context and culture specific, as well as you depict 'slaves' as a nigger who carries a big stone on his back and his master lashes his whip upon him. Pls trash that. 'slave' in this context means 'servant', who lives with them in their house, eats at their table and in return of his service to his master he gets to live in his house, gets food and clothing and everyhthing they need etc. etc. I have already discussed this with culi and really don't want to repeat myself.

Since I can quote Bible as well, here is just one simple thing:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 5:38-39. Shortly after, in Matthew 7:12 there Jesus says: “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. This with "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' are basically the only things you need to do to be a Christian. Love God, and love others.
But I REALLY don't want to get into a Bibleverse war.

Thank you. That is exactly how a Muslim would defent the Quran.

[Tigro]

Thank you. That is exactly how a Muslim would defent the Quran.

Ye, I guess muslim would start popping a Bible verses
But since your arguments were invalid, my arguments still hold.
And if you started saying shit about Jesus or God i wouldn't give a damn pretty much, while a muslim would swear to kill you irl.
But still, talking in this kind of arguments seems like we are both talking to a brick wall. What's the point of that?

[Ruben]

Thank you. That is exactly how a Muslim would defent the Quran.

Ye, I guess muslim would start popping a Bible verses
But since your arguments were invalid, my arguments still hold.
And if you started saying shit about Jesus or God i wouldn't give a damn pretty much, while a muslim would swear to kill you irl.
But still, talking in this kind of arguments seems like we are both talking to a brick wall. What's the point of that?

You still don't understand my point do you? I don't actually mean that all Christians are evil, but this is how people talk about Muslims all the time. Most of the time nobody even challenges them on it. They pull out passages from the Quran as "proof" and start pointing fingers at Muslims. When someone does it with the BIBLE, however, it's instantly dismissable for some reason. Both are horrible books and should be burnt. The only thing they prove is that if God indeed exists then he is the root of all evil.

Some Muslims may threaten to kill you, but most really won't. Though, understandably they'll be offended at the disrespect. A Christian and a Muslim would be equally offended if you said God is not real. I don't give a shit cause I think the whole idea of religion is preposterous. No matter how we divide ourselves there are rotten apples on all sides, and they should be dealt with as individual people, not as part of some greater group.

I'm sorry this got so heated. I wish no ill will for you or any other good person (you seem like a nice guy). It's God I have a problem with. And racists. And fucking dog-owners who keep their dogs in the yard barking all day.

Judge not, that ye be not judged. (Matthew 7:1)

[culinko]

I realized it's pointless to argue with people over things like politics or religion, but I'm going to write something at least, because it's sad to see only Ruben defending what I also think it's right. I mostly agree with him on this issue. Do you want to know why people in developed countries don't burn witches and don't go into crusades anymore? Why muslims from middle east shitholes blow themselves up? It's simple, education. Religion is not the problem, education is (even though I am myself agnostic and think religion is bad overall, because uneducated people can be easily brainwashed). This would be smilar comparison to saying that guns are the problem in US. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. So the issue is about mental health and background checks for gun owners and not about guns itself. And about what Madness said, you can clearly see the comparison between Bible and Quran. People wrote them at the time slavery and killings were "the norm", so no wonder there are atrocities in them. I honestly have no idea how can one devote their life to the religion if their book says shit like that. But that doesn't mean they are bad people if they try to either help other people or don't agree with the book's atrocities (as Tigro mentioned, however this applies for all religions, not only for his one). People are scared about the things they don't know (different cultures, religions, colors of the skin, sexual orientation, etc.), I get that. But that doesn't mean we should not help the refugees (not talking about terrorists or economic migrants). The problem just won't go away. And telling them to go back to their country to fix the stuff there is just sending them to die. You don't tell people who came from a war to go back there, because there is a fucking war (talking about Syria). And it's not only the fault of Syrians, US/EU/Russia is faulty, too. This problem is so huge, but I believe it can be solved. You "just" need to separate the real refugees from terrorists and economic migrants. I have no idea why they haven't started to verify them before they got to Europe. Oh well, one can only hope this problem will be solved in the near future.

[Ruben]

Many refugees have been sent back because their country was deemed too safe for them to seek war refuge here. The only issue is, accoring to Norwgian law these refugees cannot be escorted back to their countries by Norwegian police, because it would be too unsafe for the police. Go figure.

[milagros]

culinko, how is the war in Syria the fault of EU / Russia / USA ? Who is fighting against how? It's other fault because weapons were produced elsewhere?
Education, I hear this all the time. But a large portion of extremists grew up in Europe and they still blow themselves up. How exactly did the education help? The problem is they didn't get their education in schools but in mosques. Thus, mosques are the problem. We don't have them in Slovakia. If we let a few thousand refugees in and build a few mosques, we might regret it in 20 years. Would you eat a bag of chips if you knew 10% (or 1%) is poisoned?

[culinko]

"How is the fault in Syria the fault of US/EU/Russia?" Well, because they wanted to oust Assad by supplying weapons to "moderate rebels"? Same reason why Iraq and Afghanistan are shitholes now, because the west had overthrown the dictators. "But a large portion of extremists grew up in Europe and they still blow themselves up." Some leadership individuals might have done it, yeah, but the people who blew themselves up are just brainwashed ordinary folks with lack of education. "If we let a few thousand refugees in and build a few mosques, we might regret it in 20 years." Why? Does building a church in Africa turn the country into garbage? Of couse not. "Would you eat a bag of chips if you knew 10% (or 1%) is poisoned?" So if one person is a killer, is every person on earth a killer? Your arguments are just a bunch of made up bullshit, that's why I said that it's pointless to argue about topics like this. This is my last post in this topic and I leave everything on Ruben (poor guy), because I have no energy for this shit.

[Madness]

And if you started saying shit about Jesus or God i wouldn't give a damn pretty much, while a muslim would swear to kill you irl.

Really? I do it all the time and they never swore to kill me.

[milagros]

Well, because they wanted to oust Assad by supplying weapons to "moderate rebels"?

And they can't think for themselves? whatever happens is our fault?

the people who blew themselves up are just brainwashed ordinary folks with lack of education.

not everyone can become a rocket engineer. But they grew up having a chance to become one. They were educated as anyone else.

So if one person is a killer, is every person on earth a killer?

So if 99% were killers, we should still let them in? Where is the limit? Isn't the estimated number already above the limit?

Your arguments are just a bunch of made up bullshit, that's why I said that it's pointless to argue about topics like this.

what has to happen to change your mind? how many more terrorist attacks, sexual assaults, etc? In august security agencies warned what might happen - they might be isis members among the refugees, the violent crime / sexual assaults in europe might grow and we waited a few months and voila, shit happened.

[Madness]

So if one person is a killer, is every person on earth a killer?

So if 99% were killers, we should still let them in? Where is the limit? Isn't the estimated number already above the limit?

Killers are in every religion. Even some atheists are killers, surprisingly... What if there happens to be a high percentage of killers among atheists? Will you call for banning atheism and sending all atheists to a different place?

Your arguments are just a bunch of made up bullshit, that's why I said that it's pointless to argue about topics like this.

what has to happen to change your mind? how many more terrorist attacks, sexual assaults, etc? In august security agencies warned what might happen - they might be isis members among the refugees, the violent crime / sexual assaults in europe might grow and we waited a few months and voila, shit happened.

I understand your indignation, but you didn't provide a solution.

[Tigro]

I don't actually mean that all Christians are evil.

All Christians are evil.

Pls make your mind. k10x

Both are horrible books and should be burnt. The only thing they prove is that if God indeed exists then he is the root of all evil.

I'm really curious about what your idea of 'God' and the whole 'concept of God' means to you and how do you think about him/it (whatever). Because to me it seems you have distorted vision of it, which may be the result of several factors, including upbringing, bad experiences or bad examples etc.

A Christian and a Muslim would be equally offended if you said God is not real.

Barely. Imo. It doesn't offend me at all. It just makes me pity you.

I'm sorry this got so heated. I wish no ill will for you or any other good person (you seem like a nice guy).

I actually enjoy such polemics. And I really don't think I am a nice guy. Eh?

It's God I have a problem with.

Pls tell me why. Elaborate.

I understand your indignation, but you didn't provide a solution.

I think it was obvious from mila's posts that his proposed solution is not to leave them any space to expand (as in Slovakia), which in practice means to not let them in to our countries and prohibit them to make their agenda here.

[Ruben]

If ISIL wanted to enter your country they'd have done it with or without "concealing" themselves as refugees. The problem is that you buy way too much into the media's way of reporting. For example if there was a stab murder, headlines change as follows:

If a Christian murders a Muslim, headline reads like this: "Man killed in knife fight."
If a Muslim murders a Christian, headline reads like this: "Muslim immigrant viciously and repeadiately stabbed innocent Christian to death. Is it time to close the borders?"

Same crime, yet somehow people don't condemn all Christians in the world on the first man's actions.

[Madness]

I don't actually mean that all Christians are evil.

All Christians are evil.

Pls make your mind. k10x

Please, try to read between the lines. It's obvious from the context that he was pointing out that saying something like that would be completely preposterous.

A Christian and a Muslim would be equally offended if you said God is not real.

Barely. Imo. It doesn't offend me at all. It just makes me pity you.

You have obviously never met a Muslim (understandable, there are not many of them in Slovakia), but I've met loads of them and lots of Christians and other religious people. Neither of them really gets offended if you say that God is not real (which is actually pretty stupid to say, because whatever brought us into existence could be called God). They will just forever keep trying to convince you that you are wrong, ask you who is the creator of everything, what's the purpose of our existence, how it's possible that we can breathe etc. There's no difference between arguing with a Christian and a Muslim about religion. They will all insist that their religion is the right one and provide you with a zillion of arguments. You can trust me on this.

[milagros]

If a Christian murders a Muslim, headline reads like this: "Man killed in knife fight."
If a Muslim murders a Christian, headline reads like this: "Muslim immigrant viciously and repeadiately stabbed innocent Christian to death. Is it time to close the borders?"

it is exactly the opposite - media are afraid to report and police tries to cover up, not to be accused of rasism.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/12/world ... .html?_r=0
http://pamelageller.com/2016/01/police- ... aper.html/
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01 ... r-them-up/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ction.html
the same thing in every country

[Ruben]

Both are horrible books and should be burnt. The only thing they prove is that if God indeed exists then he is the root of all evil.

I'm really curious about what your idea of 'God' and the whole 'concept of God' means to you and how do you think about him/it (whatever). Because to me it seems you have distorted vision of it, which may be the result of several factors, including upbringing, bad experiences or bad examples etc.

It's God I have a problem with.

Pls tell me why. Elaborate.

What I have learned of God I learned from history class and from the Bible. For all the evidence I can see God is a sadistic piece of shit, if he exists. People have killed each other in the name of their dieties for thousands of years. Hardly seems like a thing to worship in my opinion. There is no evidence for the existance of such a being, just a fucking book some people wrote down hundreds of years after the events allegedly happened. Using the Bible as proof of God is like using Harry Potter as proof of wizards. It's pointless.

Now let's assume God is real for a second. There is so much I want to ask him. Like for example, why is the world so full of death and suffering? Why are millions of people born into poverty and die as kids from horrible diseases? Isn't he supposed to be omnipotent? Then why does he allow this to happen, it's atrocious and evil. And no, don't give me that "God works in mysterious ways" bullshit. I can't be bothered to keep going, so I'll let some other people do the talking for me.

Bertrand Russell:
“I do not pretend to be able to prove that there is no God. I equally cannot prove that Satan is a fiction. The Christian god may exist; so may the gods of Olympus, or of ancient Egypt, or of Babylon. But no one of these hypotheses is more probable than any other: they lie outside the region of even probable knowledge, and therefore there is no reason to consider any of them.”

Stephen Fry:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6sz8D411kE

Dara O'Briain (for a more comedic approach):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdi_u1ZenRw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDYba0m6ztE

Ricky Gervais:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH3h9K0iAGg (until that guy cuts in like halfway through)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCIfsxskC4c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBdhnmnLnUc

George Carlin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE (if you're only gonna watch one of these, watch this one)

[culinko]

So if 99% were killers, we should still let them in? Where is the limit? Isn't the estimated number already above the limit?

what has to happen to change your mind? how many more terrorist attacks, sexual assaults, etc? In august security agencies warned what might happen - they might be isis members among the refugees, the violent crime / sexual assaults in europe might grow and we waited a few months and voila, shit happened.

I know I said that it's going to be my last post, but I just need to clear these up. You should really stop throwing every person who came from another country during the refugee crisis into the same bag. That's why I mentioned this TWICE in my original post, quoting them below.

But that doesn't mean we should not help the refugees (not talking about terrorists or economic migrants).

You "just" need to separate the real refugees from terrorists and economic migrants. I have no idea why they haven't started to verify them before they got to Europe.

[milagros]

I think everybody at some point went through a thought process, trying to get an unbiased conclusion about the existence of god or truth of any particular religion.
The god was always responsible for all the things humans did not understand. We found out he is not at the top of the mountain (olympus), bottom of the see, deep under ground in a cave or eventually in the sky throwing thunders. This moved him slowly to his current place - outside of space and time. We've slowly learnt where does the matter come from, how was the sun and earth formed, how did simple organism evolve into complex ones. We found out we are the same animals as apes, dogs or cats, only a bit smarter. Some things were not resolved yet (how did life come to be), but it is only a question of time. We are not any special, implying that there is no afterlife, because bacterias would go there too. It also implied that if there is a god, his only contribution to our universe is that he designed the mathematical model (physics), compiled, linked and executed the application. The existence of such god is irrelevant; such god would not care and possibly not even watch. Current scientific knowledge disproves all our made-up religions. For example christianity - if humans evolved from apes, there was no Adam and Eve. If there were no Adam and Eve, there was no first sin. If there was no first sin, everybody is born sin-less. If we are born sin-less, there was no reason for Jesus to come. And the whole biblical story falls apart. "Holy books" also provide some testable hypotheses. For example as a proof for Muhammad, Allah did a miracle of splitting Moon into two halves. If such things happened, I guess Chinese or English would notice too. Not to mention some ridiculous bullshit like Muhammad flew to the heaven on a flying horse.

[milagros]

You "just" need to separate the real refugees from terrorists and economic migrants. I have no idea why they haven't started to verify them before they got to Europe.

ez wu 13.20 noxiit

[culinko]

You "just" need to separate the real refugees from terrorists and economic migrants. I have no idea why they haven't started to verify them before they got to Europe.

ez wu 13.20 noxiit

See? Another unrelated answer with no real arguments. Ruben, good luck here.

[milagros]

i wanted to say it's impossible
how would you do it? they have no documents (or have thrown them away), say they come from Syria, ..

[culinko]

Most of the people without documents are from Albania or Kosovo anyway, so I would just send them back. In fact, many countries started doing this already. Too bad it happened after all the people moved into Europe and not before that.

[iltsu]

I agree with mila. Ruben and culinko are just suvakkeja.

[Madness]

iltsu: Just a few technical questions.

1) Do you suggest closing the borders and not letting anyone in (your religion is not shown in your passport)?
2) If so, do you suggest doing this only in your country or worldwide (that would make more sense and be more efficient as no one would be allowed to leave their country either, making it easy to enforce)?
3) Or perhaps only one religion (including atheism) in one country should be allowed to maintain peace and people could only travel between countries of their matching religion?
4) Or should only the religions that you deem "sick and shit" be banned?
5) If so, would these also include Christianity as the Bible seems to be violent as well?
6) Should these religions be banned worldwide (that would make sense) or should they only be banned in your country/your city/your house/certain areas?
7) How exactly would you go about banning a religion and how would you enforce it?
8) What would you do with the people who profess the newly banned religion?

Thank you in advance for your kind and enriching clarification.

[milagros]

I will answer for itsu
about the refugees - there exists already a "dublin regulation", it was agreed, signed, etc, why isn't it valid?
religions - most countries already have such regulations, lots of religions (sects) or ideologies are already banned in many countries (scientology, nazism, fascism, communism) , it is just about adding on to the list.

[Madness]

If you think banning certain religions would help anything, then look at the countries where they do it. For example North Korea and their peaceful atheism. Is this what you want? Or do you think there's a peaceful way of doing that? The only solution is to learn to live together.

[milagros]

north korea is a teocracy

[Mats]

Many refugees have been sent back because their country was deemed too safe for them to seek war refuge here. The only issue is, accoring to Norwgian law these refugees cannot be escorted back to their countries by Norwegian police, because it would be too unsafe for the police. Go figure.

That's not true. Norway sends back the fake refugees, which is people from other countries which saw the crisis as a opportunity to move to norway.


Europe got no possibilities to export all people in a crisis forever, when you look at birth rates in poor countries. If this immigration happen to fast no matter reason we all end up living with misery. When you end up with big culture changes in very short period, you get isolated groups in society. So basicly you create separate cultures, not a combined culture. This makes a disturbance and can't possibly be peaceful as people think with their sympathic view. If this were supposed to work, why does there even exist countries. The integration prosess mainly starts with the second generation and the kids learn our way of life. When you got a lot of people it exceeds the capacity we currently got, and the prosess stops functioning the way we want it to work.

In my opinion help refugees temporary and help them get their country back. But my guess is most of them won't return, which is one of the causes for hate in this situation. I try not to hate on people, I hate on politics, religion, low education, low intelligence, fake represented world picture. We are all indoctrinated into our beliefs.

[Sunshine]

just happened in america: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/or ... index.html quite many dead

[kuchitsu]

that was really gay

[gimp]

Sad stuff. It's hard to imagine how a mind can be filled with so much hate, seems all too common in humans though.

[Tigro]

So we all go full KappaPride now again?

[culinko]

Tigro: I think it would help if you read this post: https://www.facebook.com/maddoghall/pos ... 1217702025.

[Madness]

Tigro is from a religion of peace too.

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." - Bible

[Tigro]

Tigro: I think it would help if you read this post: https://www.facebook.com/maddoghall/pos ... 1217702025.

I did, and I didn't learn anything new. Whatsoever. Pls stop assuming that just because I am religious I am stupid kid. I study science, people. I read articles and debates, I watch politics and evaluate things critically. So pls.

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." - Bible

For the wages of sin (whatever it is, faggotry or sloth; murder or downloading porn) is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 6:23


idc if they were LGBTIQRS or whatever the abbreviation is now, but just because some gays were killed, the world doesn't necessarily have to be rainbow for a week. Same as Charlie Hebdo or Bataclan, where everyone was French suddenly, or whatnot.
My earlier post wasn't meant to be hateful in any sense. I am sad from the shootings happening, I pity the families of those 50 people, and I wish they didn't die. But just because they died I won't suddenly proclaim affinity for gays. I still think it's wrong, as well as I think killing people is wrong (and I am not going to compare which one is wronger, this is not topic about that).

I was more puzzled when I read that reddit mods dropped censorship bombs and banhammers after it was discovered that attacker other than being a white male is as well an ISIS allegiant. Thousands of posts and comments were deleted and hundreds of accounts were banned at /r/news.

[Lousku]

For the wages of sin (whatever it is, faggotry or sloth; murder or downloading porn) is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 6:23

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. - Deuteronomy 4:2

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book - Revelation 22:18

Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. - Proverbs 30:6

Enjoy your plagues.

[gimp]

Eat my shorts - Bart Simpson

[Tigro]

Enjoy your plagues.

Thank God I have gift of eternal life, despite commiting sins.

[Polarix]

Allah is the only true god.