Showing styles publicly during a contest

[Orcc]

Some people have the tendency to play levs shown during a cup / competition. Some even share replays to everyone. Why do you do that? Do you require the attention to your skills so badly that you can't let others compete themselves?

I see Elma is pretty much about two things:
1) Finding a style
2) Höyling a run with it

Now you take off the other big factor, maybe imagining "well, everyone would have found those moves anyway". Here's a spoiler: no they would not. Does everyone find the fastest moves in battles as well? No. Maybe people could show you style-leakers the style instead and you höyl a run for them, wouldn't that be the same thing?

[insane guy]

Maybe this has something to do with the whole "sharing your whole life on the internet"-phenomenom. No more secrets. Immediate feedback and recognition for every action you take.
It is propably max annoying for most people who seriously participate in any given contest. I have been playing some bingo bango at tel without seriously participating and from now on will hide if I do so.

[kuchitsu]

Not that it matters in my case since I'm probably too nab to show something that good players will find interesting, but I'll share my story anyway. I did this in World Cup and a bit in Mie Cup, and to be honest... I think I kind of did it to deliberately be an asshole. I'm a manchild, when I see a system that is so easily exploitable and I know that I won't be punished, for me it can be hard to resist the craving to do something "funny". This is also why I always defend flagtag abusers I guess: for me it's fun to see systems getting abused. Yeah, I'm not really nice... :\

Also I wasn't taking these cups seriously so that was even more reason to play shown. (when I was hoyling Mistr303 I played hidden because I was very serious about that lev) I imagine this is why people like Luther play contests openly and even share recs. He doesn't really care about the competition, he just noticed a popular lev and found it fun to hoyl. That's understandable but probably still not very nice to do. Even if he isn't interested in the cup, I think he should respect the participants and not ruin the fun for them. But after what I just wrote, I'm not exactly in the position to judge him.

So, um, my point of view: we need to combat this kind of behavior and maybe start taking measures against it. I dunno how (maybe bans would be too harsh, maybe not) but basically system abusers should be shown that they are not welcome here and that everyone dislikes them. The current system is more like "please don't do it but if you do, we can't do anything about it" and it's not enough to stop people like me I guess.

[Bjenn]

I have played shown by mistake many times, most people will tell me I am playing shown so that I can hide again, others will spy for as long as they can.
It is indeed a problem that is not very easy to deal with, that people play shown by purpose.

[insane guy]

"easy" solution would be to somehow let contest admins decide if people can be seen in current contest levs, and also if times are shown.
Would this require an update to eol? Or is it possible to somehow fix this with eol site/server?

[Zero]

I'm well aware that this topic is about the issue in general but in something like The Elma League and especially in this test-ish season I don't really mind.
I play hidden if I want to beat my opponent but having some styles public isn't really a problem. Maybe the person who shared the style actually has a better one?
It's not like the stylefinding ends there.

[Orcc]

I'm well aware that this topic is about the issue in general but in something like The Elma League and especially in this test-ish season I don't really mind.
I play hidden if I want to beat my opponent but having some styles public isn't really a problem. Maybe the person who shared the style actually has a better one?
It's not like the stylefinding ends there.

Yes, well, that sounds very selfish. You play shown as long as it doesn't affect your own position. Why would you be the judge which contest or cup is the most precious? Surely World Cup is generally acknowledged as the most important cup, but for someone else a Low Effort Level cup might be worth more. Winning the second league in The Elma League probably means more to that kuski compared to the one who is fifth in the premier league. Also the style sharing affects lower skilled players more than the best ones, who probably are able to find those styles (or better ones) themselves.

[Luther]

How can it be forbidden (or even wrong) for someone who, with his own style plays a time to share that replay? Are you out of your mind?

If the cup is shown, it is shown. If it isn't, it's still up to any player to share their progress if they like. It shouldn't affect those who will drive good times anyway.

[Orcc]

How can it be forbidden (or even wrong) for someone who, with his own style plays a time to share that replay? Are you out of your mind?

I'm sorry, it appears you didn't notice I wrote something in the first post:

I see Elma is pretty much about two things:
1) Finding a style
2) Höyling a run with it

What sharing the style does is that it effectively eliminates the first phase of fun. If you see a bunch of kids trying to solve a puzzle do you go there and show them the solution? Is your urge to show off your superiority so strong that you can't let others compete and find out who is the best style finder among them?

If the cup is shown, it is shown. If it isn't, it's still up to any player to share their progress if they like.

I haven't ever heard of a competition where the styles are supposed to be public. Uphills, pipes, first finishes etc. are usually different, because in them the style finding is often only minimal factor and it gives more fun for people to be able to watch others. I give a big hand to the players of HALF levels because there are not many public replays out there. I wish I had played the levs so I could get more out of the upcoming video and styles.

It shouldn't affect those who will drive good times anyway.

Yes, it rarely affects those who drive good times. But there are those who don't drive good times and still wish to compete against each other.

[kuchitsu]

If the cup is shown, it is shown. If it isn't, it's still up to any player to share their progress if they like.

Was it always like this? I'm pretty sure that in the old Russian cups I've seen rules like "public replay sharing is forbidden during the event". Like in FunChamp for example: http://funchamp.narod.ru/Rul.htm But imo even without a written rule it was usually clear to everyone that they shouldn't share recs.

Was it different with Moposite cups?

[Polarix]

Yeah I agree that making cups unspyable is a good thing. Ill see what there can be done to make this happen in season 2.

[FinMan]

can't really say anything else than this: I agree with Orcc completely. I would love to see people stop playing shown in contest levels, k10x?!

[Madness]

I always show good-looking wrong styles and laugh at people mindlessly hoyling them without trying to look for anything else because the provided one looks okay. Just like I showed a wrong style in HALF1D to Kazan. He then stopped using the correct style and switched to the wrong one and got rekt! xDDDDD)))

[gimp]

Orcc you have made a lot of good points, but I haven't seen you offer a solution. Maybe that's because you know the only solution would be to ban people for sharing recs or styles. Although I dislike it when people show a style I have been hoyling for hours, I would dislike it much more if we gave someone the authority to ban or punish somebody for showing a style. It has always been our right to do whatever we want with our replays. nothing wrong with voicing your opinion, but I sense you want some sort of justice, which would ultimately be more rules and would suck.

[Grace]

95% of cup events the last 7-8 years have been ruined by style leaks.

[Ramone]

95% of cup events the last 7-8 years have been ruined by style leaks.

I dont even know what to say about this comment.

[gimp]

He is either being sarcastic or melodramatic

[Grace]