People with admin rights abuses their power nowadays

[Bjenn]

For example Labs aborted this battle yesterday which was not impsy at all http://www.recsource.tv/r/mhjkrtlbqs

[Ithy]

This is a common problem in many online game communities.. Being an admin is not a privilege but a responsibility.. Don't forget that

p.s. didn't find my old account :F

[Labs]

For example Labs aborted this battle yesterday which was not impsy at all http://www.recsource.tv/r/mhjkrtlbqs

lal bj.

Ps: people who preannouncing battles nowadays, doesnt even test their levs and make it impsy.

nab bj.

[Thundr-]

What does preannouncing battles and making them impsy have to do with this particular case, or anything at all? Why the emphasis on the preannouncing part?

Considering there's plenty of fuhills/fupipes/fumads/fulevs etc that are are so ridiciously hard that only the best of the best in this community have a chance of completing them, or at all. At the same time plenty designers are merely eyetesting the levs or not at all. So this couldn't possibly be an issue.

Also why not elaborate a little on why this was considered abort material?

[Labs]

So you agree that many shitlevs coming nowadays, thanks.

I do lol on bj cos he constantly braking rules and he cannot admit a small mistake from another one.

lol.

Now are you satisfied with my answer, dear thundr? If not then who cares i do not. Bla.

Bj also started to troll with battle times and others following him in idiotism, thanks for that these battles coming along.
http://elmaonline.net/battles/104185

8 secs lev for 30 min? Oh thanks for that, now others can follow you!

http://elmaonline.net/battles/104186


http://elmaonline.net/battles/104181
Oh, same battle started by bj, what a coincidence! Keep em coming! Go on!

Thanks for reading.

[FinMan]

This seems like an unfortunate case of bad judgement what comes to the level and its abortion. It seems to have been a wrong call, this stuff can happen from time to time. Let's try to move on and do less mistakes in the future.

I would also suggest telling about this kind of stuff to actual admins, i.e. Kopaka instead of making it a huge mess in lauta OR using the support ticket form in the elmaonline site to send out all the other cases which you have spotted (as the topic name suggests). And yes, they are being read nowadays.

Obviously this may just be another bad troll by Bjenn but as this already seems to have extended out of the casual bad troll scale, what can you do...

[Thundr-]

Absolutely Labs, seeing as there is no quality control for levels and its free for all for anyone with a level editor to poop out creations. Evidentally judgement calls to abort have to be made constantly and its not always a black and white business.

Apparently there was a longer story behind this with other deeds counted for in a series of events that escalated. Though for a casual onlooker just viewing this forum while eating some swedish meatballs who is unaware of this entire matter this looks like a true accusation towards you, information provided with a video of a completed run, and all you had to say for it was saying lol and calling the other guy a noob, which is a very unproductive reply you dont expect an admin to say in any situation.

However it seems you yourself claim this abort was just one simple honest mistake that could happen to anyone, and it would appear that your initial post was just venting anger over this entire situation that seems to have gone on for a while and not just for this particular case with this particular level. Again, as someone who is unfamiliar with the rest of the story, this thread just seemed like bad manners and two people acting out their personal issues with each other. Hence why I questioned and wanted you to elaborate instead of just posting lolnoob etc.

I agree with finman that these types of threads should not be on lauta, and there is a support ticket form? I didn't know that or imagined it was used for these kinds of deals. Also EOL site has gone through many changes and in the past many features have been defunct. Perhaps there could be some kind of statement or info provided regarding that somewhere visible? I think people need that these days, very clear instructions that is.

[Sunshine]

ramone started 60min battle on 5 sec lev and mod(s) were ok with it because of no queue...

[adi]

I don't know but Bjenn should get ban or at least a warning for constantly breaking rules (and for bad behaviour). It's also useless to abort any of his balles, because he will just add them again.

[Chris]

That battle in question was mine and was untested. Before it was aborted no one seemed to be close to finishing it. I would prefer to that battle to continue for a bit longer, but I have no issues with Labs aborting it. Mistakes happen.

[Lousku]

Just to be clear: Labs is a moderator, not an admin.

Anyway, that's some bullshit aborting. "Trolling with battle times", seriously? There are strong trends in battle timing, but they're just popular, not "correct" in any way. A simple höylä can easily be improved after some 30 minute battle, so what makes it invalid? I mean ffs, warmup WR got a significant improvement last year, and you would've aborted it as a 30 minute battle.

I've done some bullshit aborts in the past and admitted, but Labs, from the information presented here, you have no defense.

[Sunshine]

i will start making ten 5s battles with 60min time per day and pretty soon you will change your mind about "trolling with battletimes"

[gimp]

there are no rules stated on elma wiki about disallowing battles that are too long or even impossible for that matter. here is what is stated as Not Allowed

Remixes only changing the start position
Making level smaller ect.
Remixes with very small changes
Practise/Train levels
Mirror levels
Scaled levels
Using same level for different battle type

Also:
3.1 Starting a battle on a level that has been battled or otherwise released before
3.2 Starting a battle in a level created by somebody else
3.3 Starting battles on offensive, buggy or otherwise unsuitable levels*
3.4 Starting a battle in internals
3.5 Playing own battles (Exception: Flag Tags)
3.6 Giving tips or otherwise helping people with your battle

*Unsuitable levels is the subjective material here. and is described loosely as what is unsuitable for the particular battle type. for example
Survivor battles should obviously not have spots where it's easy to stop completely.
Slowness battles should also not have spots where it's easy to stop, unless that loss of momentum makes finishing the level harder.
Flagtag battles need to allow players to move freely in many directions. Dead ends that are hard to escape will get the flag stuck. Gravity apples are an easy way to allow mobility

Note that unsuitable doesn't necessarily mean impossible on a regular battle, probably because we dont always know what is possible or impossible

a note is made that sometimes moderators will stop ridiculously long timed battles, but it also states that there are no rules about time limits on battles. stopping a long battle is more appropriate than aborting, because at least it will save the winner results, but even this is not a rule.

personally, the only time i will ever abort a battle is if it broke one of the rules or if it was requested to be aborted by the designer

[Kopaka]

For example Labs aborted this battle yesterday which was not impsy at all http://www.recsource.tv/r/mhjkrtlbqs

So you find one abort you disagree with and use that to generalize, stop hyperbolizing please.

This is a common problem in many online game communities.. Being an admin is not a privilege but a responsibility.. Don't forget that

On the other hand don't forget admins are humans who can make mistakes, when it comes to aborts they often have to make a judgement quickly, and can't be around all the time.

Considering there's plenty of fuhills/fupipes/fumads/fulevs etc that are are so ridiciously hard that only the best of the best in this community have a chance of completing them, or at all. At the same time plenty designers are merely eyetesting the levs or not at all. So this couldn't possibly be an issue.
Also why not elaborate a little on why this was considered abort material?

The big difference is that this particular battle had no apples, so with no one finishing you'd have a tie between all players, adding apples probably wouldn't have helped either due to the style of the level. Even if a couple finished it would be pretty uninteresting for most people, nothing to compete for.

and all you had to say for it was saying lol and calling the other guy a noob, which is a very unproductive reply you dont expect an admin to say in any situation.

True but at a certain point you give up using reason with certain people and can just laugh.

Anyway, that's some bullshit aborting. "Trolling with battle times", seriously? There are strong trends in battle timing, but they're just popular, not "correct" in any way. A simple höylä can easily be improved after some 30 minute battle, so what makes it invalid? I mean ffs, warmup WR got a significant improvement last year, and you would've aborted it as a 30 minute battle.

there are no rules stated on elma wiki about disallowing battles that are too long or even impossible for that matter. here is what is stated as Not Allowed

While that's true according to rules there's some cases where it's pretty clear people are trolling, based on chat and past behaviour. I find that kind of behavour worse than a battle that technically breaks the rules. It can drive people away and makes for a quite negative mood in eol.

About the other battles in question from last night, some actions have been made.

[kuchitsu]

I don't fully understand what's going on but from my experience, when you have something to say against an admin or a mod, it is better to contact other admins\mods privately instead of creating forum topics. Sometimes a problem\misunderstanding can be solved in a few polite PMs, but instead people create forum threads for everyone to see the drama, both sides feel a stronger need to defend themselves due to the public nature of the debate, the anger piles up and a horrible shitstorm begins.

[Lousku]

While that's true according to rules there's some cases where it's pretty clear people are trolling, based on chat and past behaviour. I find that kind of behavour worse than a battle that technically breaks the rules. It can drive people away and makes for a quite negative mood in eol.

If that was the case here, then Labs should show the relevant chat logs. By itself, that 30min balle by Bjenn is fine. Everyone knows there's interesting stuff to discover at that level of höyläge, so why can't it be battled? Sure, most people will just find it boring.

Would something like this be considerable: If you've started multiple battles where nobody played longer than 20% the length (or something), your balle starting rights can be removed for some amount of time.

[Bjenn]

Hello, I thought that my 30 min battle got aborted, because there was no winrec on recsource.
I wrote this also in first post but removed it when I realized thanks to Markku that the winrec was just not uploaded yet.
So two examples of abortion became only one.
I'm sorry for bringing this matter up here.

About my FF battle I fixed the impsy part and restarted it, I really wanted people to finish it.
But that 2nd battle got aborted because it was illegal to battle it again.
Then I thought I could mirror it because I have seen such battles before with FFs.
But I now see my mistake that that also not was legal.
I spent very many hours on this FF level.

[Chris]

I have stop/abort rights. I mostly use them to abort my own battles. Generally if I need to abort some "impsy" battle I would ask as many people as I can before I do it. If there is at least 1 person who feels it can be done, I let it continue for some time and from my experience the level often see some finishes. I think that's reasonable.

It's not that every battle should be finishable by everyone and I'm not talking about FFs etc, but normal battles.

[ROKKEBOL]

Hello Bjenn i liked your lev. Too bad there was an impsy spot in it

[Thundr-]

True but at a certain point you give up using reason with certain people and can just laugh.

Too bad it puts some of the moderators in a bad light when that happens on an official forum or similar for everyone to see. The response seemed immature, inappropriate and irresponsible. The exact opposite qualities an authority person should possess in any given situation despite the circumstances. It makes you lose credibility should someone need assistance with something a moderator can help with. Isn't there some kind of "be the better man" policy required when you take on the mantle of responsibility? Logical things like be polite, formal and mature at all times? If the situation gets out of hand then apply the corresponding warnings and punishments listed within the rules and move on. The person keeps breaking the rules? Apply more warnings and punishments. There can never be a situation where badmouthing is called for. Am I alone in thinking this?

Your response here makes it seem like its completely fine for moderators to just laugh and mock when they get sick and tired of a troublemaker. Nothing bad against Labs here as we are all just humans and we do errors from time to time, and this may just be an isolated and highly specific case. Maybe he is in the right and Bjenn is entirely in the wrong, maybe Labs was in the wrong and Bjenn was in the right. Honestly I don't really care as its not my business, and I am sure the moderator group handled this behind the scenes and solved the immediate issue. Yet it seems the mentality that its okay to act childish for a moderator if they lose their temper if entirely acceptable.

[Labs]

Thundr: Bjenn did use the topic name as like admins (moderators) abuses users like every day. This is not true at all. Its fully ridicolous, i dont see any reason to get him seriously. I would write lol again if something like that come up again from him.

Chris: sorry for aborting battle i admit it was my mistake.

Lousku: So you are totally okay with 5-8 secs battles with 30-60 minutes of battletime? What if you make a norm lev and you have to wait for these 3-4 battles, which are 5 secs long and 40 minutes battletime each? This would not bother you? I would not even start my battle and leave instead of suffer in these. I think many would just leave too.

[gimp]

It looks like bjenn admitted the misunderstanding. So everything is fine.

[Thundr-]

Labs with the information provided in this entire thread I absolutely understand that now. However had I just viewed the first two posts, or if the thread had been shut down prior to the rest of the story. I would most likely had gone away with the impression that you were just being a childish dick unworthy of moderator rights. It may be true that there is no reason to take him seriously, but you made me, and maybe other possible onlookers, not take you seriously as well. The way everything was displayed in this thread, it seemed you were by far the worse man.

Moderators may be fully aware of what every wrongdoer is doing or have done. Keeping some sort of track record. But do not presume that others are aware of anything at all. You and Kopaka wrote your replies based on what you know this person has done in the past and claim to be a hopeless troll. This isnt necessarily public knowledge to anyone, in fact I have no idea about a single thing Bjenn has done thats against any rules thats so major it warrants a remark from the head administrator of Eol himself. All I saw here was a man making a claim, and a moderator replying with nonsense. Then Kopaka backing you up by saying its okay to laugh at people. This made both you and Kopaka seem like utter immature pricks. Its clear that this isnt the case and any confusion is gone now.

[Lousku]

Lousku: So you are totally okay with 5-8 secs battles with 30-60 minutes of battletime? What if you make a norm lev and you have to wait for these 3-4 battles, which are 5 secs long and 40 minutes battletime each? This would not bother you? I would not even start my battle and leave instead of suffer in these. I think many would just leave too.

If there are others who enjoy them and play through them, of course they're okay. But maybe read my suggestion for a rule to fix this. If someone is starting battles nobody wants to play, they shouldn't have starting rights.

[Chris]

Chris: sorry for aborting battle i admit it was my mistake.

No problem at all. I didn't make good battles that day anyway.

[BlaZtek]

I agree with Kejebra-