Speedrunning information and tips
Moderator: Moporators
Speedrunning information and tips
Hi mans.
So have been doing some elma speedruns on twitch.tv lately and as I have promised I am going to tell you a bit about the shit that's going on behind the scenes, like how to set up this shit and how to make autosplitter work etc. With current technology even this old game can be properly recorded, mostly thanks to ddraw.dll so let's get at it.
Why elma speedruns? Well, it's a nice challenge and it's not as much of a weird battle against a set limit of time like 1htt (die in apple harvest --> impossible to get all levels finished; instead just lose that 25sec). I really enjoyed speedruns so far as I may have mentioned like a thousand times on stream. It is also really motivating to play when others are watching and reacting in real time, with the possibility to even answer them while playing almost real time. Plus, no one needs to shuffle levels while spying. Also, it's also nice that you can also see the speedrun later, not only spy during it.
My stream setup is as follows: I run elma windowed at some random small resolution (960x720) because my computer can't handle more. I use OBS for streaming, it's an easy-to-use, freeware software that really makes it easy for anyone. I capture elma through window capture. My stream resolution is 1280x720 so that the elma screen fits into one side of the stream and the rest of the shit can be stuffed into the rest of the area, which currently inculdes Livesplit, which I use as my splitting program and NohBoard for the on-screen keyboard. Neither of the two last mentioned programs are actually required but at least a timer is really appreciated, NohBoard I just put there because people requested it. If you only want to do timer, you can put just a timer on the screen using a program called WSplit which is a way more simplified version of livesplit basically. In addition to what's shown on stream, i use Chatty to see twitch chat without having my browser on, it also lets me see the list of chatters all the time.
OBS stuff: First off, I don't recommend a bitrate higher than 2000-2500 if you want everyone to be able to watch the possible stream without lag (bad internets in russia etc). Secondly, make sure you don't overuse your cpu during streaming or recording, make sure to test your whole setup and cruise around for a while. OBS will have a red text saying "high cpu usage" in the bottom, that's when you want to tune down your encoding settings. Encoding really can take a lot of your cpu's capabilities. What to do if this happens? Well, the most efficient way to do this is to downscale your resoltion (Settings --> Video --> Resolution downscale). Another way to do it is to set your cpu preset higher, the higher the less it uses your cpu (Settings --> Advanced --> x264 CPU preset). Mine currently is at veryfast. Both of these ways will affect the quality of the video negatively but better that than huge lag. Also, you need to dig up the stream key from twitch or an alternative site you stream to, you can also locally record and publish the vidio on youtube.
Livesplit stuff: I share my split file, layout, autosplitter so you can easily set up livesplit. The Autosplitter was made by me and bene with assistance of a few guys from speedrunning tool discord channel. What you want to do is start livesplit, open the splits file, edit the split names if you want. You can edit the layout as you wish of course, it doesn't really matter but linked mine if someone wants it. There are cool things like graphs etc if you want that kinda stuff, couldn't fit one for my layout. Autosplitter is going to be added to the layout. Left click the livesplit window, click "edit layout", click the huge "+" --> "control" --> "scriptable autosplitter". After that you double click on the "Scriptable Auto Splitter" thingy and add the .asl file i linked. You should instantly have the "start" and the "split" tickboxes available. Keep them active to make them work, you can disable either if you don't want it to start automatically or split automatically for some reason. In any case, the autosplitter should work, the timer automatically starts when you enter warm up and every time you touch the flower it splits and you continue to the next segment. Menu times and flower waits are included in the splits, that's just how it is. I also recommend testing out how the splits work.
You also may want to make sure you have your manual split hotkeys in good position. If for some reason you want to cancel a split, split manually and especially reset the run, you want to know how to do that. I have them on numpad -, +, * etc so that i don't accidentally control the splitter during a run or so. You can also edit the way the autosplitter looks as a whole from that same menu, just double click on any of the parts in the layout and you will be able to do whatever you want basically. Another thing that you may want to pay attention is what you are comparing to (right clicking on livesplit --> compare against, alternatively you can set a hotkey to change it). It is way easier to know if your run is shit or great if you compare against either your pr, your best splits, your average or whatever you perfer. I usually compare against my pr because the splits vary so much, a death on any level will push the average of some splits too far from a sensible comparison.
Remember that you can always reset your run but it will be really exhausting if you try to do all the levels perfectly straight away. Losing that 10 seconds on missing the first apple on over and under may feel like a hit in your butt but if you lose 3 minutes on lab pro it really matters way more. I don't recommend starting a reset fiesta from the beginning, it also eats your ability to perform at your best if you get stuck into resetting few levels in.
I play elma with my fps limiter set to 200 during the speedruns, because it helps me with levels like shelf life, freefall, etc. I'm not certain it's better overall, it could even have a negative effect on the run but in any case i will always have some lag when streaming so why make sure i'll get through that shelf hole. You can choose whichever fps amount you want or are able to use, it doesn't really matter in the long run. But remember, if you practise the run, practise with whatever setup you are gonna play with. Just use the "preview stream" or so and have all the lag you are gonna have when you do it if you have to suffer from any. Also remember that any time you die you are going to lose that much time. That's why you don't want to try something really hard that you won't be able to do often, you mostly want to do the hardest tricks in the run 80% of time or more unless you want to aim for a really good run. I have to point out that you are NOT supposed to try to make wr or shit on your first runs or maybe ever. Just try to enjoy the stuff and maybe beat your own expectations, withtout getting too angry at not being able to beat your best friend or so. I have already set quite a tough basetime, but don't let that let you down.
I think that's it, thanks to bene for helping with this post. If there are any questions, just contact me on irc, discord, whatever floats your boat osv.
Resources:
Splits
Livesplit Layout
Autosplitter
bye.
So have been doing some elma speedruns on twitch.tv lately and as I have promised I am going to tell you a bit about the shit that's going on behind the scenes, like how to set up this shit and how to make autosplitter work etc. With current technology even this old game can be properly recorded, mostly thanks to ddraw.dll so let's get at it.
Why elma speedruns? Well, it's a nice challenge and it's not as much of a weird battle against a set limit of time like 1htt (die in apple harvest --> impossible to get all levels finished; instead just lose that 25sec). I really enjoyed speedruns so far as I may have mentioned like a thousand times on stream. It is also really motivating to play when others are watching and reacting in real time, with the possibility to even answer them while playing almost real time. Plus, no one needs to shuffle levels while spying. Also, it's also nice that you can also see the speedrun later, not only spy during it.
My stream setup is as follows: I run elma windowed at some random small resolution (960x720) because my computer can't handle more. I use OBS for streaming, it's an easy-to-use, freeware software that really makes it easy for anyone. I capture elma through window capture. My stream resolution is 1280x720 so that the elma screen fits into one side of the stream and the rest of the shit can be stuffed into the rest of the area, which currently inculdes Livesplit, which I use as my splitting program and NohBoard for the on-screen keyboard. Neither of the two last mentioned programs are actually required but at least a timer is really appreciated, NohBoard I just put there because people requested it. If you only want to do timer, you can put just a timer on the screen using a program called WSplit which is a way more simplified version of livesplit basically. In addition to what's shown on stream, i use Chatty to see twitch chat without having my browser on, it also lets me see the list of chatters all the time.
OBS stuff: First off, I don't recommend a bitrate higher than 2000-2500 if you want everyone to be able to watch the possible stream without lag (bad internets in russia etc). Secondly, make sure you don't overuse your cpu during streaming or recording, make sure to test your whole setup and cruise around for a while. OBS will have a red text saying "high cpu usage" in the bottom, that's when you want to tune down your encoding settings. Encoding really can take a lot of your cpu's capabilities. What to do if this happens? Well, the most efficient way to do this is to downscale your resoltion (Settings --> Video --> Resolution downscale). Another way to do it is to set your cpu preset higher, the higher the less it uses your cpu (Settings --> Advanced --> x264 CPU preset). Mine currently is at veryfast. Both of these ways will affect the quality of the video negatively but better that than huge lag. Also, you need to dig up the stream key from twitch or an alternative site you stream to, you can also locally record and publish the vidio on youtube.
Livesplit stuff: I share my split file, layout, autosplitter so you can easily set up livesplit. The Autosplitter was made by me and bene with assistance of a few guys from speedrunning tool discord channel. What you want to do is start livesplit, open the splits file, edit the split names if you want. You can edit the layout as you wish of course, it doesn't really matter but linked mine if someone wants it. There are cool things like graphs etc if you want that kinda stuff, couldn't fit one for my layout. Autosplitter is going to be added to the layout. Left click the livesplit window, click "edit layout", click the huge "+" --> "control" --> "scriptable autosplitter". After that you double click on the "Scriptable Auto Splitter" thingy and add the .asl file i linked. You should instantly have the "start" and the "split" tickboxes available. Keep them active to make them work, you can disable either if you don't want it to start automatically or split automatically for some reason. In any case, the autosplitter should work, the timer automatically starts when you enter warm up and every time you touch the flower it splits and you continue to the next segment. Menu times and flower waits are included in the splits, that's just how it is. I also recommend testing out how the splits work.
You also may want to make sure you have your manual split hotkeys in good position. If for some reason you want to cancel a split, split manually and especially reset the run, you want to know how to do that. I have them on numpad -, +, * etc so that i don't accidentally control the splitter during a run or so. You can also edit the way the autosplitter looks as a whole from that same menu, just double click on any of the parts in the layout and you will be able to do whatever you want basically. Another thing that you may want to pay attention is what you are comparing to (right clicking on livesplit --> compare against, alternatively you can set a hotkey to change it). It is way easier to know if your run is shit or great if you compare against either your pr, your best splits, your average or whatever you perfer. I usually compare against my pr because the splits vary so much, a death on any level will push the average of some splits too far from a sensible comparison.
Remember that you can always reset your run but it will be really exhausting if you try to do all the levels perfectly straight away. Losing that 10 seconds on missing the first apple on over and under may feel like a hit in your butt but if you lose 3 minutes on lab pro it really matters way more. I don't recommend starting a reset fiesta from the beginning, it also eats your ability to perform at your best if you get stuck into resetting few levels in.
I play elma with my fps limiter set to 200 during the speedruns, because it helps me with levels like shelf life, freefall, etc. I'm not certain it's better overall, it could even have a negative effect on the run but in any case i will always have some lag when streaming so why make sure i'll get through that shelf hole. You can choose whichever fps amount you want or are able to use, it doesn't really matter in the long run. But remember, if you practise the run, practise with whatever setup you are gonna play with. Just use the "preview stream" or so and have all the lag you are gonna have when you do it if you have to suffer from any. Also remember that any time you die you are going to lose that much time. That's why you don't want to try something really hard that you won't be able to do often, you mostly want to do the hardest tricks in the run 80% of time or more unless you want to aim for a really good run. I have to point out that you are NOT supposed to try to make wr or shit on your first runs or maybe ever. Just try to enjoy the stuff and maybe beat your own expectations, withtout getting too angry at not being able to beat your best friend or so. I have already set quite a tough basetime, but don't let that let you down.
I think that's it, thanks to bene for helping with this post. If there are any questions, just contact me on irc, discord, whatever floats your boat osv.
Resources:
Splits
Livesplit Layout
Autosplitter
bye.
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
I have eyed every minute of every vod and even eyed live and mega enjoying it thanks for entertainment finman hope more mans will stream to pleasure my stupid couch brain.
Signatür ruined by SveinR - smaller plz :*
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Awesome effort finman and excellent points about the whole appeal to this! I'm gonna try for a sub 50 mins run myself at some point (and perhaps also some filler runs for the other categories also), hope others join in as well to make a nice long list of runs and attract more attention to Elma in the wider speedrunning community perhaps.
Speaking of which - I think it would be nice if people also submitted their recsource.tv'd internal replays to the individual levels table as this is where other speedrunners who are not familiar with the Elma scene would go to find more optimal replays of the levels - they wouldn't get anything out of just seeing the actual WR table when there are no videos attached to it which everyone I've spoken to has found strange. Pretty much every other speedrun game requires public videos to verify a record. So the individual records table could perhaps become the "best public replays" table eventually? Do we even have one like that elsewhere?
Anyway, I've uploaded the resources to http://www.speedrun.com/elma/resources as well and perhaps finman could post this guide to http://www.speedrun.com/elma/guides also!
Speaking of which - I think it would be nice if people also submitted their recsource.tv'd internal replays to the individual levels table as this is where other speedrunners who are not familiar with the Elma scene would go to find more optimal replays of the levels - they wouldn't get anything out of just seeing the actual WR table when there are no videos attached to it which everyone I've spoken to has found strange. Pretty much every other speedrun game requires public videos to verify a record. So the individual records table could perhaps become the "best public replays" table eventually? Do we even have one like that elsewhere?
Anyway, I've uploaded the resources to http://www.speedrun.com/elma/resources as well and perhaps finman could post this guide to http://www.speedrun.com/elma/guides also!
39:37,91
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Now, rules are an interesting subject. In the realm of speedrunning when it comes to glitches and bugs pretty much anything goes as long as it saves time. Extremely gamebreaking glitch skips are usually turned into separate run categories. Where do apple bugs and bugbounces fall into? Should accidentally (or on purpose, not that the intention could be objectively determined from a video) getting a hooked bug or a beneficial bug bounce in a full game run disqualify it? Personally, I believe the answer is no. And thus follows that all bugs should be accepted, at least for full game runs. Therefore intentionally aiming for a hooked bug and maybe even apple bugs in other levels could be a valid strategy? What about individual level runs? Sure, we wouldn't accept bugs as official WRs but this is the realm of speedrunning - anything goes as long as it isn't tool assisted? Then the individual records list on speedrun.com could be the "anything goes" WR list that I don't think we have anywhere. However, as apple bug times cannot be verified on EOL site, a stream/video would be required instead? Interesting. Opinions?
39:37,91
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Personally, I see the following categories existing:8-ball wrote:Now, rules are an interesting subject. In the realm of speedrunning when it comes to glitches and bugs pretty much anything goes as long as it saves time. Extremely gamebreaking glitch skips are usually turned into separate run categories. Where do apple bugs and bugbounces fall into? Should accidentally (or on purpose, not that the intention could be objectively determined from a video) getting a hooked bug or a beneficial bug bounce in a full game run disqualify it? Personally, I believe the answer is no. And thus follows that all bugs should be accepted, at least for full game runs. Therefore intentionally aiming for a hooked bug and maybe even apple bugs in other levels could be a valid strategy? What about individual level runs? Sure, we wouldn't accept bugs as official WRs but this is the realm of speedrunning - anything goes as long as it isn't tool assisted? Then the individual records list on speedrun.com could be the "anything goes" WR list that I don't think we have anywhere. However, as apple bug times cannot be verified on EOL site, a stream/video would be required instead? Interesting. Opinions?
No bug (i.e. as defined by elma community for wrs the last years)
?Anything goes non-TAS
Other issue is whether we can add old times that were driven before eol to speedrunning.com because they aren't on eol. I would argue yes to grandfather them in (anything before this year/month can be exempt from being on the eol database)
Will think about it some more
Last edited by sunl on 19 Jan 2017, 04:04, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
No8-ball wrote:Should accidentally getting a hooked bug or a beneficial bug bounce in a full game run disqualify it?
Yes8-ball wrote:Therefore intentionally aiming for a hooked bug and maybe even apple bugs in other levels could be a valid strategy?
Anything goes we can't have special elma rules, adapt to the mainstream community8-ball wrote:What about individual level runs? Sure, we wouldn't accept bugs as official WRs but this is the realm of speedrunning - anything goes as long as it isn't tool assisted?
Yes8-ball wrote:Then the individual records list on speedrun.com could be the "anything goes" WR list that I don't think we have anywhere.
EOL site is bad I guess we need other verification other than rec to ensure non tas8-ball wrote:However, as apple bug times cannot be verified on EOL site, a stream/video would be required instead?
Signatür ruined by SveinR - smaller plz :*
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Or add a subcategory on EOL internal times lists that actually lists apple bug and maybe "obvious bug bounce abuse" times that are otherwise removed?bene wrote:EOL site is bad I guess we need other verification other than rec to ensure non tas
39:37,91
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
I would say allow bugs for speedruns but nat individual lev runs.
Going for bugs in a speedrun doesn't seem veri reliable at all, except for maybe apple bugs. So bugs there would probabli mostly be accidents, and it would really suck to disqualify a run because of sach. Also, speedruns are totally new in Elma, so adhering to general speedrunning conventions seems ok.
But individual levs hev been contested for 20 years in a way that's been proven compelling. If individual levs are put on some speedrun site, why nat just do it the way that works for this game, the way that most actual players prefer? I'm guessing the majority of pipel, Elma players or nat, don't find bugbounces as impressive as norm runs.
edit: btw everyone that hasn't spyed yet, finman's speedruns hev been really fun to spy. A lot nicer than spying 1htt imo, because more improvisation is needed to recover from failages, and also theer's more pressure.
Going for bugs in a speedrun doesn't seem veri reliable at all, except for maybe apple bugs. So bugs there would probabli mostly be accidents, and it would really suck to disqualify a run because of sach. Also, speedruns are totally new in Elma, so adhering to general speedrunning conventions seems ok.
But individual levs hev been contested for 20 years in a way that's been proven compelling. If individual levs are put on some speedrun site, why nat just do it the way that works for this game, the way that most actual players prefer? I'm guessing the majority of pipel, Elma players or nat, don't find bugbounces as impressive as norm runs.
Why nat?we can't have special elma rules
edit: btw everyone that hasn't spyed yet, finman's speedruns hev been really fun to spy. A lot nicer than spying 1htt imo, because more improvisation is needed to recover from failages, and also theer's more pressure.
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
My thinking is that it is weird to explain to mans. We can't even tell when a bounce is bug or not ourselves at least reliably with defined rules how is some new man going to know what to do? How are we going to explain to them that they can't do hooked bug? What good reason is there to disallow certain bugs to a community that usually allows all bugs? How are we going to explain to them that some bugs(like wheelpops and alovolt) are oke?Lousku wrote:Why nat?
Having different rules for individual levels also feels weird. Some full runs will eventually have faster times in levels than individual table because someone accidentally does.
We have moposite wr table for individual levels with the rules of this community already. To me this feels different and new and I don't see a reason to have a duplicate table.
Signatür ruined by SveinR - smaller plz :*
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Fair enaf. Is it pasibel to additionally link the WR table or something with replays, since that's where 99.99999999999999999625% of the speedrunning effort around this game has gone? Seems bad to introduce Elma to a wider speedrunning communiti and ignore the main thing.
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
I think the problem is that when non-Elma people see a record for a game they expect the recording of it to be public. So WR table is less relevant to them than us when 1) no visible proof backing them up and 2) they abide by arbitrary rules that are difficult to understand without insight into the game's history.
39:37,91
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Maybe a table of the best public recs then?
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
sunl is tasked with posting all times from http://mopolauta.moposite.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9327 to http://www.speedrun.com/elma/individual_levels to populate the list.Lousku wrote:Maybe a table of the best public recs then?
Mods of the game are able to post records of other people.
If any of the people from that list have speedrun.com usernames different than in Elma, then let him know or submit the times yourself.
So after that the speedrun.com list could work as an automated list of public replays sorted by time, not requiring manual compilation by sunl.
39:37,91
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
I'll note that there *is* precedent of certain bugs being disallowed for a specific run, based on the type of run:
See: http://www.speedrun.com/ct
http://www.speedrun.com/pkmnyellow
http://www.speedrun.com/Portal
For this reason, I think it is reasonable to divide runs between
-standard (i.e. traditional elma rules)
-glitch allowed
The reason is that there is good reason for both types of records to be displayed.
I'll begin posting some times for individual records while not yet including "old" recs
See: http://www.speedrun.com/ct
http://www.speedrun.com/pkmnyellow
http://www.speedrun.com/Portal
For this reason, I think it is reasonable to divide runs between
-standard (i.e. traditional elma rules)
-glitch allowed
The reason is that there is good reason for both types of records to be displayed.
I'll begin posting some times for individual records while not yet including "old" recs
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Discussion summary:
Should hooked bug or beneficial bug bounce be allowed in a full run?
8-ball: yes, all bugs should be accepted. Therefore intentionally aiming for a hooked bug and maybe even apple bugs in other levels could be a valid strategy?
bene: Yes
Lousku: I would say allow bugs for speedruns. Going for bugs in a speedrun doesn't seem veri reliable at all, except for maybe apple bugs. So bugs there would probabli mostly be accidents, and it would really suck to disqualify a run because of sach. Also, speedruns are totally new in Elma, so adhering to general speedrunning conventions seems ok.
Should individual level runs allow hooked bug or bug bounce etc?
Options: [1 category: anything goes (glitch)] or [2 categories: glitch + standard rules]
8-ball: ?. This is the realm of speedrunning - these are not for official WRs. This list doesn't exist anywhere as well. WR table is less relevant to speedrunning community as WRs don't have recs and follow arbitrary rules unless you understand game's history.
bene: Anything goes. We can't have special elma rules, adapt to the mainstream community. It's weird to explain to speedrunning community why some bugs are allowed (hooked) and not (wheelpop, alo). We even have difficulty deciding if things are bugs. Why disallow bugs when usually on this site all bugs are allowed? Some full runs will have faster glitch times than standard runs. We already have normal wr table.
Lousku: 2 categories. Standard rules have been contested for 20 years in a compelling way. Why not just do it how it works, how it's actually preferred? Most people don't find bugbounces as interesting.
sunl: 2 categories: there *is* precedent in other games of certain bugs being disallowed based on the type of run, so should have two categories as both categories have importance.
Apple bug do not appear on eol database and bug-bounce times in internals are removed/don't appear
8-ball: A stream/video would be required instead?? Or edit EOL website to show.
bene: Need other verification other than rec to ensure non-tas
Can replays driven before eol be grandfathered in and not require a time on eol?
sunl: yes??
Should hooked bug or beneficial bug bounce be allowed in a full run?
8-ball: yes, all bugs should be accepted. Therefore intentionally aiming for a hooked bug and maybe even apple bugs in other levels could be a valid strategy?
bene: Yes
Lousku: I would say allow bugs for speedruns. Going for bugs in a speedrun doesn't seem veri reliable at all, except for maybe apple bugs. So bugs there would probabli mostly be accidents, and it would really suck to disqualify a run because of sach. Also, speedruns are totally new in Elma, so adhering to general speedrunning conventions seems ok.
Should individual level runs allow hooked bug or bug bounce etc?
Options: [1 category: anything goes (glitch)] or [2 categories: glitch + standard rules]
8-ball: ?. This is the realm of speedrunning - these are not for official WRs. This list doesn't exist anywhere as well. WR table is less relevant to speedrunning community as WRs don't have recs and follow arbitrary rules unless you understand game's history.
bene: Anything goes. We can't have special elma rules, adapt to the mainstream community. It's weird to explain to speedrunning community why some bugs are allowed (hooked) and not (wheelpop, alo). We even have difficulty deciding if things are bugs. Why disallow bugs when usually on this site all bugs are allowed? Some full runs will have faster glitch times than standard runs. We already have normal wr table.
Lousku: 2 categories. Standard rules have been contested for 20 years in a compelling way. Why not just do it how it works, how it's actually preferred? Most people don't find bugbounces as interesting.
sunl: 2 categories: there *is* precedent in other games of certain bugs being disallowed based on the type of run, so should have two categories as both categories have importance.
Apple bug do not appear on eol database and bug-bounce times in internals are removed/don't appear
8-ball: A stream/video would be required instead?? Or edit EOL website to show.
bene: Need other verification other than rec to ensure non-tas
Can replays driven before eol be grandfathered in and not require a time on eol?
sunl: yes??
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
lolec just allow all bugs, nobody sensible will ever go for one intentionally anyway. With 30 fps you could in theory have few planned apple bugs you can try, but you lose everything and more due to the low fps in other levs anyway. There are not many "risk free" apple bugs, aka passing through flower before last apple. Long haul and hooked are a few classic ones. I had 28 in long haul as nab in 2001-2002, but never had apple bug in hooked in my life (probably cuz ive done like 3 hooked runs in my life). And with 999 fps you will never ever get apple bug, unles you're feeling like winning the lotery
oh, that is for full run obv
who cares about the segments??? we have a wr table already fuk seik. do we have weak confidence or what, "plz world see us"
oh, that is for full run obv
who cares about the segments??? we have a wr table already fuk seik. do we have weak confidence or what, "plz world see us"
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Apple bugs should not be allowed in my opinion, you haven't fully finished the level if you don't take all the apples (100% rule should be relevant here).
It would totallt ruin the fun if people were going for apple bugs, either you fail miserably or you win lottery as Zweq said and GG.
It would totallt ruin the fun if people were going for apple bugs, either you fail miserably or you win lottery as Zweq said and GG.
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
It's up to us to set up the rules for different categories, but I think it'd be odd if we didn't allow apple bugs at all. For me one of the most enjoyable things in watching speedruns is when ppl go for some sick hard glitch that saves a lot of time, pretty much the opposite of ruining the fun. It's such mega common to hear commentary like "we make the game think that we finished the level by exploiting this and this glitch" about a speedrun. About apple bugs you could also say "we make the game think that we've finished the lev".Bjenn wrote:Apple bugs should not be allowed in my opinion, you haven't fully finished the level if you don't take all the apples (100% rule should be relevant here).
It would totallt ruin the fun if people were going for apple bugs, either you fail miserably or you win lottery as Zweq said and GG.
Of course in a 100% run it would make more sense to get all the apples and finish all levels (instead of using skips).
Team MiE - MiE Cup 1
Prestigious member of 14.6x Tutor14 club
Prestigious member of 14.6x Tutor14 club
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Yeah very fun to hoyl speedrun playing with 30 fps in all levels trying to get apple bugs, int 03, 04, 06, 09, 15, 16, 17, 23, etc.
Eyebleed and brainbleed =(
Eyebleed and brainbleed =(
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
read zweq post
Team MiE - MiE Cup 1
Prestigious member of 14.6x Tutor14 club
Prestigious member of 14.6x Tutor14 club
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Ye nat necessary, but if "single segment anything goes" runs are included theer, then it would feel right to show the "main" Elma category too. And ye, why nat want to showcase stuff? =)Zweq wrote:who cares about the segments??? we have a wr table already fuk seik. do we have weak confidence or what, "plz world see us"
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Allow all bugs in the "any% apple" category
Don't allow bugs in the "100% apple" category
Publish all current and future WR recs
/thread
Don't allow bugs in the "100% apple" category
Publish all current and future WR recs
/thread
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
IMO as long as game is unmodified and played without any cheat tools bugs should be allowed in single segments.
Lousku wrote:could you mayke shorter sig please mega annoying and also against rules )
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
I don't really get why we would need an IL table on sr.com, it's pretty useless and no one ever would care except for us. We could just, as Lousku said, somehow link the actual WR table to the site in case someone's actually interested. But I really don't mind it either.
In a normal speedrun all the bugs are of course allowed. If you found a way to trick the game into thinking you finished apple harvest through menus and got to internal 55, it would be good enough for the "any%" a.k.a. reach int55 category, doesn't matter if you skip 54 of the 54 levels doing that. Yes, it would be one of the worst speedruns in history of everything but it would be the fastest way to reach internal 55, and that's it.
Another thing would be "Reach level 55 Glitchless" category which would disallow bounces, apple bugs, any other bugs but then again there's a line to be drawn. When are you abusing a glitch when you take fruit in the den apple, is it enough if it vsyncs for 0,3 seconds? How about it giving 0,2 second boost, is it allowed? How about shelf life hole? It's literally a glitch, the wheel just doesn't know what the fuck to do so it does stuff pretty unpredictably sometimes, even if it isn't really a very major case of this. All levels runs of course require you to touch the flower in 54 of them which counts out magic tricks like the one i mentioned.
In any case, there aren't really many ways to do glitches consistently in elma, which leaves us to basically just raw gameplay when it comes to full game speedruns etc. Trying for that one hooked bug or whatever is not reliable at all, if someone gets that 5 second advantage of getting one during a run, bravo. It doesn't really make a difference really.
Should we add already done 1htt results to the leaderboards on sr.com? It hasn't ever been a requirement to record your shit, also many people saw them live, especially stuff like Kazan's 38:46,01 etc so it's not like they need more proving. This has been done on multiple other leaderboards as well when people made pr's in agdq or so in training rooms etc. The problem of course is: how the fuck does anyone beat that time with a shitty setup if they can't do anything better than we currently can with most computers etc. Thoughts?
In a normal speedrun all the bugs are of course allowed. If you found a way to trick the game into thinking you finished apple harvest through menus and got to internal 55, it would be good enough for the "any%" a.k.a. reach int55 category, doesn't matter if you skip 54 of the 54 levels doing that. Yes, it would be one of the worst speedruns in history of everything but it would be the fastest way to reach internal 55, and that's it.
Another thing would be "Reach level 55 Glitchless" category which would disallow bounces, apple bugs, any other bugs but then again there's a line to be drawn. When are you abusing a glitch when you take fruit in the den apple, is it enough if it vsyncs for 0,3 seconds? How about it giving 0,2 second boost, is it allowed? How about shelf life hole? It's literally a glitch, the wheel just doesn't know what the fuck to do so it does stuff pretty unpredictably sometimes, even if it isn't really a very major case of this. All levels runs of course require you to touch the flower in 54 of them which counts out magic tricks like the one i mentioned.
In any case, there aren't really many ways to do glitches consistently in elma, which leaves us to basically just raw gameplay when it comes to full game speedruns etc. Trying for that one hooked bug or whatever is not reliable at all, if someone gets that 5 second advantage of getting one during a run, bravo. It doesn't really make a difference really.
Should we add already done 1htt results to the leaderboards on sr.com? It hasn't ever been a requirement to record your shit, also many people saw them live, especially stuff like Kazan's 38:46,01 etc so it's not like they need more proving. This has been done on multiple other leaderboards as well when people made pr's in agdq or so in training rooms etc. The problem of course is: how the fuck does anyone beat that time with a shitty setup if they can't do anything better than we currently can with most computers etc. Thoughts?
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Is it possible to have levelpacks on that site too? I would love to see some ALP runs.
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Yes, possible to add, maybe as "misc" categories. But who would run them?
39:37,91
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Nobody8-ball wrote:But who would run them?
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
It's really the other way round tbh, people run a category --> then you may consider adding it there. There's no point having a category with no runs if it's not a "main" category. I would definitely be up for racing ALP, Found, Lost, whatever other level packs through speedrunslive though.
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Is anybody in the elma community able to do a glitch or bug intentionally even 1% of the time without sl or tools? I'm just wondering how big of an issue/non-issue this even is.
I think this is cool, I want to see one of your speeds runs finman. How do I watch you live, any recordings already done? when do you go on or announce when you'll be on? Sorry if you already answered this there is a lot of text.
I think this is cool, I want to see one of your speeds runs finman. How do I watch you live, any recordings already done? when do you go on or announce when you'll be on? Sorry if you already answered this there is a lot of text.
God Bless America
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
https://www.twitch.tv/dawnedgood/videos/allgimp wrote: I think this is cool, I want to see one of your speeds runs finman. How do I watch you live, any recordings already done? when do you go on or announce when you'll be on? Sorry if you already answered this there is a lot of text.
He's announced it on at least on IRC/Discord/EOL chat when he goes live.
Team MiE - MiE Cup 1
Prestigious member of 14.6x Tutor14 club
Prestigious member of 14.6x Tutor14 club
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Bounces and animal farm start are glitches that are pretty consistent, you could also call going through shelf life hole a glitch (depending on the definition, wheels are definitely not supposed to go through walls which they do there) even though it doesn't seem so glitchy. Also in certain situations wheelpops are pretty consistent-ish, but not counting shelf hole, no glitches really are that useful in any speedruns.gimp wrote:Is anybody in the elma community able to do a glitch or bug intentionally even 1% of the time without sl or tools? I'm just wondering how big of an issue/non-issue this even is.
- Grace
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Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Mee6 bot (in the discord) has functionality to announce when a whitelisted streamer goes live. Quite easy to add twitch of a few people to that bot and give it a channel to announce "FinMan has gone live"
Cyberscore!
___________________________________________________
Targets: 8 Legendary, 26 WC, 18 Pro, 2 Good | AvgTT: 39:20:99
___________________________________________________
Targets: 8 Legendary, 26 WC, 18 Pro, 2 Good | AvgTT: 39:20:99
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Yeap, it's alredi doing that.
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
That's already happening every day in the #other-games channel =)Haruhi wrote:Mee6 bot (in the discord) has functionality to announce when a whitelisted streamer goes live. Quite easy to add twitch of a few people to that bot and give it a channel to announce "FinMan has gone live"
Team TR
Multi WR in Labyrinth with GRob
Best Internal Total Times, Pipe stats & Pipe archive
World kuski map, World Cup stats
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
I have solved Shelf Life hole problem, I can use 600 fps or higher in a run and get through the hole without dying with 100% success rate.
I have bind screenshot button to right shift and when wheel reaches the hole (wait for it to touch) press screenshot, then hold gas and left volt and voila!
Works everytime even though 1-2 sec screen freeze, watch rec!
http://www.recsource.tv/r/ficysjnzoa
I have bind screenshot button to right shift and when wheel reaches the hole (wait for it to touch) press screenshot, then hold gas and left volt and voila!
Works everytime even though 1-2 sec screen freeze, watch rec!
http://www.recsource.tv/r/ficysjnzoa
Last edited by Bjenn on 8 Nov 2017, 11:47, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
using mopolauta attachments for .rec files in 2017 is a bannable offenc
- Frostidllo
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Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Hi,
I wanted to try speedrunning for fun, because i like it very much and i came across one problem.
When using livesplit on background, elma works normally, but if I use scriptable autosplit made by bene&Bjorn, my screen flashes with blue color every other frame, making the game pretty unplayable.
Do you see any other solution then doing manual splits?
I was not running OBS on background, just livesplits.
Got Win7.
Btw my game does wierd colors on 2nd monitor but I dont find that as a big issue... However it can be linked with this problem.
I wanted to try speedrunning for fun, because i like it very much and i came across one problem.
When using livesplit on background, elma works normally, but if I use scriptable autosplit made by bene&Bjorn, my screen flashes with blue color every other frame, making the game pretty unplayable.
Do you see any other solution then doing manual splits?
I was not running OBS on background, just livesplits.
Got Win7.
Btw my game does wierd colors on 2nd monitor but I dont find that as a big issue... However it can be linked with this problem.
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Try the ddraw wrapper: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9256Frostidllo wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 14:05 Btw my game does wierd colors on 2nd monitor but I dont find that as a big issue... However it can be linked with this problem.
Signatür ruined by SveinR - smaller plz :*
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
This was made by bene and FinMan. FinMan tested it out, had other games autosplit scripts as a base so I could understand the syntax, helped use cheat engine to find relevant addresses and ask for help in the autosplit community when I got stuck. I just puzzled his stuff together to a script and did some pointer magic that I hardly understood to find correct address when online or something.
Signatür ruined by SveinR - smaller plz :*
- Frostidllo
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Re: Speedrunning information and tips
This fixed wierd colors, golden elma and blue flashes. So problem solved, thanks very much
Sorry for giving credit to Bjorn then. However good work both of you!bene wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 17:37 This was made by bene and FinMan. FinMan tested it out, had other games autosplit scripts as a base so I could understand the syntax, helped use cheat engine to find relevant addresses and ask for help in the autosplit community when I got stuck. I just puzzled his stuff together to a script and did some pointer magic that I hardly understood to find correct address when online or something.
Gotta try some speedrun this weekend
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Hey that's great! I knew it would fix the weird colors on the other screen because I literally have had the same issue Didn't know it would fix the blue flashesFrostidllo wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 17:57 This fixed wierd colors, golden elma and blue flashes. So problem solved, thanks very much
No worries. Just want to credit the correct people Enjoy your speedrun! Will you stream it? I'd love to watchFrostidllo wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 17:57 Sorry for giving credit to Bjorn then. However good work both of you!
Gotta try some speedrun this weekend
Signatür ruined by SveinR - smaller plz :*
- Frostidllo
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Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Sure i will stream it. https://www.twitch.tv/frostidllo
Gonna do it saturday afternoon or smth like that.
But I have say I am pretty noobish... TT barely under 1h, but I keep improving it Gonna go for some safe strats in a speedrun anyway so I expect time like 80 minutes
Got my 1st green time yesterday, feel motivated
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Awesome thanks! I'll watch for sure if I am available
Signatür ruined by SveinR - smaller plz :*
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/227355320
Went for first onehand speedrun (category in speedrun.com/elma soon to follow I hope), result: 1:23:04. Gakked much especially in New Wave, Zigzag, and Downhill trying stupid spins and stuff hard with one hand (and in prolly many other levs too). Was max fun and will try again =)
Times:
Went for first onehand speedrun (category in speedrun.com/elma soon to follow I hope), result: 1:23:04. Gakked much especially in New Wave, Zigzag, and Downhill trying stupid spins and stuff hard with one hand (and in prolly many other levs too). Was max fun and will try again =)
Times:
Team MiE - MiE Cup 1
Prestigious member of 14.6x Tutor14 club
Prestigious member of 14.6x Tutor14 club
Re: Speedrunning information and tips
Was recording speedrun at the same time as played 1htt; for the first time I finished all levs, total time: in-game time 50:43:29 and speedrun time 58:16:14.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/228055438
Also went for another onehand speedrun, result: 1:06:18 (in-game time 54:35:87). Oke improvement from 1:23:04 but could even do under 1 hour I think.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/228104888
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/228055438
Also went for another onehand speedrun, result: 1:06:18 (in-game time 54:35:87). Oke improvement from 1:23:04 but could even do under 1 hour I think.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/228104888
Team MiE - MiE Cup 1
Prestigious member of 14.6x Tutor14 club
Prestigious member of 14.6x Tutor14 club