EML and dz vs ciph

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 00:43

EML wrote:Well, i don't trust Ciph with replays. I once showed him my bounce-style on Circuitous, next table the wr was like a second better than earlier. The week after it seemed about EVERYONE had the new Circuitous style that they claimed was invented by someone else. I just didn't care to say much about it then, but at least I made up my mind about Ciph and rec-spreading.

shutup you cheater. that rec wasnt even supposed to not be sent away. ANYONE who is gonna bitch in ANY way if a rec spreads should NOT give the rec to anyone. It IS going to lead to "wah wah i trusted you". stfu. Trust your teammates and good friends. just stop whining about everything.

p.s. abula i think this cheater should be banned from mopolauta. afterall who cares about his blacklisted lame ass comments?

EML · Post by **EML** » 1 Nov 2002, 01:07

Ah, just the response i wanted. What you say in clear text is: If you don't want your replay to be spread, don't give it to me. Thank you very much. You just said that you will spread replays that you get your hands on.

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 01:17

yup.....

ask karlis about how i spread his lab pro....wait....no i didnt.....
ask dmd how i spread his recs....wait....no i didnt....

and btw....if you didnt tell me not to send..........how am i to know not to send to pajen?

EML · Post by **EML** » 1 Nov 2002, 01:23

huh, are you really this stupid or do you just pretend to be? I really think there's no need to say 'don't spread' a style that saves over a sec to wr-style. Also, as i remember it i sendt you just the style and asked if this was faster/better style. I said i could maybe make wr with this style. I think that's like the international elma sign for 'do not spread' but I'll remember that you need everything in clear text the next time i talk to you. I'm really sorry for getting your ass into 'rec-spreader fire' by telling that I wouldn't trust you with my replays.

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 01:27

i laughed out loud reading that post.

i have spread recs but im damn loyal to my teammates and good friends. im not gonna let you make everyone think im some fucking spreader of ALL recs, gimme a break. rec spreader fire....it was a good one

EML · Post by **EML** » 1 Nov 2002, 01:31

*cough-swoszigzag-cough* *cough-iwouldn'ttrust-cough*

dz · Post by dz » 1 Nov 2002, 01:33

not that this arguing is my concern, but i wouldn't spread anyone's rec if he has trusted me one..

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 01:35

*cough* i sent pajen swos's zig zag because im loyal to pajen and i had a non-concience moment *cough*

*cough* shouldnt you be cheating elma some wr's right now? *cough*

EML · Post by **EML** » 1 Nov 2002, 01:36

dz: exactly my point. And i don't get this logic about it 'only' being a style. I think that makes it more serious. Some hÃ¶yled replay isn't that big of a deal as i see it. The styles is the 'gold' in elma.

Edit: Note to self - Ciph thinks giving away replays you send him is loyalty

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 01:37

dz, oh ok.....you would just take HeHe wr with bounce style after saying you wouldnt? just to IMPROVE your tt right....afterall, the wr would be broken anyways so who cares if you take it.....

EML · Post by **EML** » 1 Nov 2002, 01:41

Is there another replay?

I thought you said it was only swos zig-zag (and mine circ. that isn't important)

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 01:43

dz gave me his zz 1,07,04 in return for my 1,00,17 HeHe but he promised not to take wr...

dz · Post by dz » 1 Nov 2002, 01:43

so what does it has to do with spreading if i just take record with "spreaded" style? and i wouldn't like to remind who gave me that rec.. no need to though

EML · Post by **EML** » 1 Nov 2002, 01:46

wow, you really think someone will trade and get a new style and not play it?

I don't see any wrong by dz in that. It's not like he gave the replay to someone else or something

Post by **Abula** » 1 Nov 2002, 01:48

EML wrote:wow, you really think someone will trade and get a new style and not play it? :lol: I don't see any wrong by dz in that. It's not like he gave the replay to someone else or something

Nothing bad in lying?

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 01:48

damn my last post didnt send :/

no...................i expected him to play it....drive 59,xx or something but ABOVE wr....i assumed that from him saying "i want to improve tt, but i promise i wont take wr".......

dz, i trust you wouldnt spread, but im just saying you are untrustworthy in another way.

EML · Post by **EML** » 1 Nov 2002, 01:51

My guess is: when dz was trading to get the replay he didn't think the replay would have such a sweet style. I've come upon the same situation myself. Off course he will do it if he can. The wrong part is to say he wouldn't beat wr, because that he can never know. Would he press esc if he was about to make wr or something? Still, I think this is not as serious as spreading the rec. Still you, as the owner of the rec have control of who have the rec. Simple as that. If you loose the control, the rec is officially spreaded. Or do i misunderstand the word spreading?

dz · Post by dz » 1 Nov 2002, 01:53

it's not really like that your claiming, i didn't just say "i don't take wr":

<dz^> ok listen this: whenever EM has wr on it, i promise not to take it.

so, sometime later i heard from some EM guy saying YeeS (member of EM) has new wr time, and i hoyled it for fun of course, it was new style. then i got just a little bit lower than wr on table. i knew YeeS has even better, and he was member of EM, so i didn't really do anything against my promise. I don't have a clue, or i just don't remember why his time wasn't on table later on

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 01:56

EML wrote:Would he press esc if he was about to make wr or something?

if all else fails and he DID TAKE WR.....he could have just not sent to Pexi to show that he could be trusted.

dz, about YeeS having better.........what is going through your mind when sending email to Pexi "HEHE WR".....arent you thinking "damn i said i wouldnt take wr......ah well fuck it, taking the wr will be worth his anger"

dz · Post by dz » 1 Nov 2002, 01:59

why shouldn't i send, you never know if the other guy wants to do even better or just delays sending in for some reason? it was a good harmless opportunity to increase my wr statistics.

EML · Post by **EML** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:01

having better than the time on the wr-table and not sending in is the most ridiculous thing i know about. Because it removes the value of the times on the table. It's no longer the best times in the world, therefore also not the WORLD RECORDS.

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:02

WHY NOT SEND??????YOU SAID YOU WOULDNT TAKE WR?????? YOU TOOK WR............u dont get that?

yeyeyeyei know you wanted to increase your wr statistics, who wouldnt, but if you say wr will not be taken, then is shouldnt be.

EML · Post by **EML** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:02

You told swos you wouldn't spread, you still did. I think that is worse, so I wouldn't attack dz if i were you.

Edit: Luckily i'm not

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:03

EML wrote:having better than the time on the wr-table and not sending in is the most ridiculous thing i know about. Because it removes the value of the times on the table. It's no longer the best times in the world, therefore also not the WORLD RECORDS.

maybe the 2nd most ridiculous thing.....#1 being HOYLING the level you promise not to take wr on..........

dz · Post by dz » 1 Nov 2002, 02:06

em didn't have wr? then they must've lied to me. they told me yees had xx.xx time, which was better than my "wr", so it was world's best time, world record. if it were not on the table which makes it "offical", that's not my problem. i just knew member of EM had better time, a real WR all the time, so i didn't do anything wrong.

EML · Post by **EML** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:07

and if EM lied, then both dz and EM lied, noone was worse part than the other, problem solved.

Note to ciph: hÃ¶yling the level you got a new style on after saying you want to improve your tt isn't that strange.. if a wr happends, well, it's hard to avoid.

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:10

eml, maybe it was worse to spread swos rec, but we arent talking abotu that right now.

dz....if you drive a time better than the one on the wr list....send it in.....get your name on the list.....you have just taken the wr.....regardless of a time someone else has.....sure, it will be beaten, but u still took it in the first place, when you said you wouldnt, thats the point......of course your WR wouldnt stand forever.....but it should have never stood.

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:11

EML wrote:and if EM lied, then both dz and EM lied, noone was worse part than the other, problem solved.

Note to ciph: hÃ¶yling the level you got a new style on after saying you want to improve your tt isn't that strange.. if a wr happends, well, it's hard to avoid.

its simple, if you say you wont take wr.........dont take wr......if that means not sending then dont send....."that ridiculous"....stfu

EML · Post by **EML** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:14

Well, I disagree. The wrong wasn't to send in the wr or even to take the wr. The wrong was to say he wouldn't take it. I think you got a strange sense of logic, but it's ok.

dz · Post by dz » 1 Nov 2002, 02:15

it depends how you look at the wr concept. if i do better time than anyone else, i will concider it as "wr" right away, of course, regardless someone beats it before table. i will still say " i had wr". that's how it's always been. yees had better time than madman, yees had better time than me, yees had wr all the time.

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:16

wasnt strange to say he wouldnt take it at all......
that was the only way i would send him the rec, if he didnt say that, he wouldnt have gotten the rec.....

of course once he said that, the normal 'rules' for sending in a wr do not apply anymore because you had the trust of someone else....its not just "yay wr *send*".......some light should go on that you just did the wrong thing.

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:18

dz dont get into all this philosophical crap "what actually is a wr......"

a wr is the time on the fucking INTERNALS WR LIST.....you knew that when you sent your rec in so dont even say you thought you werent doing anything wrong.

EML · Post by **EML** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:20

So you think dz should think twice about sending something, but it's ok for you? You talk about trust, at the same time you say that I shouldn't send you something if you don't want it to be spread. Only send to the team-members and close friends you preach, trying to justify your own actions. At the same time you attack dz. What is the word i feel on my tounge? Hypocrisy? something like that at least.

dz · Post by dz » 1 Nov 2002, 02:22

well i admit i didn't do exactly how you expected me to do, but i didn't do anything that wrong either. the situation was somewhat special, after all, your team had nothing to suffer from the action i performed, so i don't understand what's the big fuzz about it anyway? i think i've explained my point of view clearly enough.

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:29

eml, dz sending in rec and me spreading recs are two DIFFERENT topics, please stop thinking they are the same and can be compared in the same light....

and dz....who held the wr at the time....MadMan? (i cant remmeber)

if MadMan DID have the wr.......then you took my teammates WR....you took EMs wr.......

<dz^> ok listen this: whenever EM has wr on it, i promise not to take it.

EML · Post by **EML** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:30

I agree, your case is much worse.

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:31

anything you reply to that post, besides admitting you are wrong, is proposterous.

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:35

EML wrote:I agree, your case is much worse.

err how do you figure? i sent pajen swos's rec (he didnt want me to, i promised not to), and wr was broken and sent to table....

i sent dezz my rec, and he sent the rec to table (I didnt want him to, he promised not to).

both are same....involving rec and trust....both were broken....its same....you can try and weigh their importance or severity but i think it really just depends on the perspective you are looking at them from.....your perspective being the "i hate ciph for spreading my circ" is clearly biased so i will just disregard anything you say about what is worse.

dz · Post by dz » 1 Nov 2002, 02:36

i think i already explained the "what's wr" matter. it's really not my faulth yees didn't send it in when he had the wr. i just happened to beat time which wasn't really best one in the world. i do usually think wrs are the times on the table, but it's not the absolute truth. wr means world record, which simply means world's best time. and it kind of gets offical as soon as you have legally driven time on your state.dat, and a replay to prove it.

EML · Post by **EML** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:42

Ciph: the difference that makes your case worse: You let the rec go to someone else. It's the same as if dz had given the rec to let's say mrickx, and he had broken the wr. Wouldn't this be worse? Then he didn't only betray your trust to not break the wr, but also he have given the style to someone else. At least I would say that's much worse.

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:43

wr table is official.......either you are just arguing for the sake of arguing or somehow you have convinced yourself you did not do me an injustice by sending that rec. you 100%, no if's and's or but's, lied to me....there is NO way to deny that. no way.

dz · Post by dz » 1 Nov 2002, 02:49

i just admitted i didn't quite do as you excpected me to do, what else you want me to say? i wouldn't though go compare it to swos/zz case, from what you did, swos still suffers it. for what i did, had practically no any kind of consequences, except that it seemed i somehow hurted your feelings.

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:53

dz wrote:it seemed i somehow hurted your feelings.

how strange is that....a buddy of mine lies to me and takes wr.....yes it hurt my feelings....is that surprising....

how does swos still suffer from it? if that is the case then MadMad still suffers from yo taking the wr.....gimme a break.

EML · Post by **EML** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:55

A little off topic (oh what the heck, i don't even know what the topic is):

I've watched some program on discovery about lies, and it said that most likely everyone lie every day in the 'modern civilization'. I don't think it's so bad to lie about something as dz did as something very awful.

If i read between lines, and try to understand what is the thoughts behind the words written i would see it somewhat like this:

dz: I really want to see that rec. I'll give you my ziggy
ciph: errr, it's my teams style. I don't want to spread my teams style. I might get in trouble.
dz: I really want to improve my tt, come on, i won't tell.
ciph: ok, i want your ziggy too, but promise not to do something so ppl can figure out i gave you this! After all i'm not the one who got the wr, but someone else in my team.
dz: yeh, sure, i just want to improve my tt (I bet it's not that different from the styles i got anyway)

---- later ------

ciph: why did you take the wr, you promised not to take it!
dz: i thought it was ok. It's not like it hurt anyone in your team. I knew someone else had beaten it.
ciph: but now they know i gave away the style :(
dz: I'm sorry, i didn't understand that it mattered if i sendt in. :(
ciph: it's not my fault that i sendt you the style!
dz: it's not my fault i beat the wr!

bleh, something like that if i try to go deep into some kind of dreamy world where everything is as i see it. hehe

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 02:59

thats a good representation of the situation EML.......really good.....

holy shit....you are one big fucking knowitall EML, you think you know what dz an my conversation was, stfu man. you dont know shit

dz · Post by dz » 1 Nov 2002, 03:00

how does swos still suffer from it?

if that is the case then MadMad still suffers from yo taking the wr.....gimme a break.

i guess you haven't seen swos talk enough. i hear it all the time

and how can madman suffer cuz of me, if another guy had already beat him before i did? is that some kind of double suffering? if so, wouldn't like to experience that myself.

well, i've things to do tomorrow, have to get some sleep. no bad feelings.

EML · Post by **EML** » 1 Nov 2002, 03:02

I don't say i know the conversation. The rules of that conversation was that everything was the way i saw it in my head. I wrote that right below it. Also, it wasn't even supposed to be your conversation. I'm just trying to translate the thoughts behind the fight. But I'm not sure any more. Maybe there is no thoughts, just words.

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 03:03

dz wrote:i guess you haven't seen swos talk enough. i hear it all the time

nono, i hear about it almost every time i talk to him.....but that is ONLY because he is very very very sensitive about elma....most people's lives wouldn't come crashing down as a result of a lost wr.

ciph · Post by **ciph** » 1 Nov 2002, 03:06

EML wrote:Maybe there is no thoughts, just words.

it is ALL about the thoughts.....fact of the matter is he said he wouldnt send, and then he did......he THINKS it was ok because yees had better. I THINK that he was wrong.....dont get me wrong, im not mad about this anymore at all, i think dz and i are ok now, but no reason not to talk about it :*

as for you EML, talk to me about circ, but stay out of mine and dz's conversations because you straight up dont understand what we are talking about. you dont have the background in our convos to understand them.

im going to volleyball practise now, good day.

r3b3l · Post by **r3b3l** » 1 Nov 2002, 03:09

Ok, guys I have waited for like 6 months before I was allowed to post in mopolauta (why did it take so long?

) but I have been reading it somewhat frequently, and I decided to make my first post one that will hopefully shut you all up

. Ok, now I am Canadian and you know I luv ya ciph (not in the gay way!), but I think that you know, as we all do, that you are a rec spreader (not that there's anything wrong with that). Now as for this little argument you and dz have going, You traded your HeHe WR for dz's ZigZag WR. Now you said that dz promised he wouldn't take the WR as long as someone from EM had it, but he didnt ask you to not take the WR on ZigZag and he probably knew you would spread it to. It seems you wanted something for nothing in that situation, and dz was dumb enough to go along with it, but it seems you were both out to screw eachother over and it was just a matter of who would do it to who first. You both know deep down that you wanted to loom out for yourself only and so you tried to screw dz out of his WR on ZIgZag AND not let him have the WR on HeHe, but it didnt work that way. Instead dz waited until the right moment, which is when you told him that someone from EM had a better tim ethen his (thought to be WR by him) so he thought "hey, what the hell they claim to have a better time so I'll send in my rec to see if they are lying" And so he did. And you were lying, so you tried to screw him over there. But then after knowing what you would do instead of letting EM get the WR on ZigZag he made the style public on mopolauta and let everyone have a shot at the WR (thats when AAL/Nostra/DD/whoever took it). So basically as I see it dz is the smarter one of the two of you. He won the little mind game you two were playing.

THIS IS MY ANALYSIS OF IT SO BELIEVE IT OR NOT IT'S JUST MY OWN ANALYSIS!

And now in my opinion dz really didnt lie to you ciph, you lied to him saying that his time was slower then ZeiZei. When really his time was faster and you just didnt want him to send in and then maybe you would have got him to show you his rec again and screwed him over more? Well anyway dz didn't lie, he kept his promise and infact he trusted that you weren't lying, but because you did lie you screwed yourself over. If you had told him, dont send in the WR you promised not to until someone out of EM takes it then he wouldnt have sent in. It's your fault. Please dont hate me for this ciph I still luv j00 my candian buddy!!!

NOW for this other situation and spreading clouds rec...Cloud is a really great guy! For you to spread his rec when he is one of the nicest people is just wrong. I doubt he's EVEr done anything mean or wrong to anyone here and yet DC you used him, you pretended to be his friend, just to get at his rec. It's disgusting...how could you pretend to be someones friend and then backstab them so blatently...and you did it all over an ELMA WR. Yea thats right its only an elma WR so who really cares, but thats not what is being argued here. It's your credibility as a person DC. We may not know you in real life but by your actions through the internet you are portraiying your personality. I am 100% sure that Cloud doesnt care about losing the WR the thing that makes him really mad is the fact that he thought you were his friend, he had soo much trust in you, and then you just went and stabbed him in the back. I mean I thought I was his good friend but even I wasnt a good enough friend to get any WR recs out of him, he must have really thought highly of you and trusted you, and the fact is that you just blatently lied and manipulated him. It was wrong of you and you should never have done it. I'm sure cloud wouldn't really spread any of EM's recs if he had them because he is trusted not to. He can however spread his own because he's a nice guy and thats what nice guys do eh cloud

.

Well that my opinion on that little issue aswell, now to address this situation of spreading on the whole.

In my humble opinion all records should be shared among anyone and everyone who asks. Right now the people who have the most WR's aren't the best in the world, no way. They are just the ones fortunate enough to have manipulated the most people into showing them WR's. There are lots of people who are better hoyla's and overall kuskis then the current world leaders. It's just that the current world leaders have people to show them WR styles. Who knows if I knew the WR style to every internal maybe I would be one of the worlds best too? All I'm trying to say is that if you want to see who the worlds best really are you have to share the style to everyone and only then will you find the best kuskis. The ones who invent the style that is used for the WR should be put on another table as the style inventor or in another catagory beside the WR holders name. THe style inventers are no doubt the backbone of every WR so they should get high honours for the WR, but so should the person who drove it.

Thats just my opinion, please feel free to flame me if you wish but I am simply here to speak the truth and my opinions and views on certain issues. Please dont hate me anyone I am just a simple man who yearns for your approval

. I know I really bashed you hard DC but I don't mean it to be insulting I just want to show you what people think of you and how you could and should change to be a better person. Cloud one told me how I was an annoying fuck and everyone (well most) people in moposite and mopolauta and elma realted things hated me, and he told me why they hated me, and it hurt my feelings but I realized I had to change for the better cuz I was an idiot so I did now I hope that no one hates me cuz I luv all of you

anyway, Peace d00dz! love you all!! special my Canadian bro ciph

and you too dmd (Master

)