Programmer needed (level generator)

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 24 Jan 2010, 03:38

Tonight we have been playing some trivia first finish levels, and I came up with a pretty sweet layout for them. The idea is you have one question at the top with 2 answers, then you have the next level with another question, then the next with yet another one etc..

http://up.k10x.net/vttgndocexeih/trivff.png
http://up.k10x.net/qnxktnxxcimur/trivff2.png

1. The 2 questions on the second level can be the same, as can the 4 questions on the third level and the 4 questions on the 4th level, etc.
2. All routes but the correct one end with an invisible polygon, preventing you from reacing the flower at the bottom.
3. All platforms should have indents or bumps on the edges to allow safe alttabbing.

If someone could create a level generator that could create this tree of questions, where all the user had to do was to enter the questions and the answers, that would be awesome! I have no idea how hard it would be, im guessing the hardest part will be the text and the invisible polygons, but if someone thinks they're up to it, please give it a shot! 8)

Bismuth · Post by **Bismuth** » 24 Jan 2010, 04:07

correction: 8 questions on 4th level

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 24 Jan 2010, 04:10

Actually, there are 4. Look at the pic. We were both wrong. 8)

Bismuth · Post by **Bismuth** » 24 Jan 2010, 04:23

you did it wrong, right from left and left from right lead to the same, there should be 8 platforms and not 6 (and yes, there were only 4 questions indeed)

Edit: actually your layout is just plain weird, you can have to answer only 2 questions? Bizarre.

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 24 Jan 2010, 05:03

Bismuth wrote:actually your layout is just plain weird, you can have to answer only 2 questions? Bizarre.

I guess this could work, but it becomes so ridicuously wide if you do it:

http://up.k10x.net/vhgbajreixlmu/sdfsdf.png

Other than that I can't think of any other layout.

And no, the minimum amount of questions is 3.

The_BoneLESS · Post by **The_BoneLESS** » 24 Jan 2010, 05:15

I think the amount of work needed to program this versus the eventual popularity of this kind of level shows that it is not worth it.

In addition, it really isn't long at all to design such a level manually.

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 24 Jan 2010, 05:26

Took me like 30 minutes 8)

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 24 Jan 2010, 09:35

why iggi nat program =|

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 24 Jan 2010, 15:54

No one xiited when we played yesterday though. The invisible lines at the bottom were kinda random to prevent checking which route was correct.

Also, before I balled that level I made another one, kinda labyrinthish, to prevent xiiting as well:

http://up.k10x.net/zkmjxiuqtfsjo/fftegsdf.png

Try finding the correct route there in 1 min. 8)

Bismuth · Post by **Bismuth** » 24 Jan 2010, 19:49

Questions were ez, I should have won

nick-o-matic · Post by **nick-o-matic** » 24 Jan 2010, 21:16

I made one like these ages ago too and battled now when others started also starting them. I used pretty much time on it. But people were kinda confuced in the battle and from 2 finishers one used editor and another followed the first. Technically Markku finished it too though, and even as the first one and without cheats I think, but he managed to miss the flower. Bad positioning damn, sorry for that.

I was thinking to make this level like some kind of standard and always only change questions and route but because of the ez cheat -possiblity I must propably make some kind of gravity inferno combined with invisibility so that its too workful to invent the right route only with editor. Also must use bigger variety of questions (not only math) so that you cant just use calculator.

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 24 Jan 2010, 21:45

Ez do trivia ffs hidden.

Also, with my design you can jsut switch the invisible polygons. Plus, when EOL comes I think you'll be able to shorten balle countdown, to prevent people from xiiting.

nick-o-matic · Post by **nick-o-matic** » 24 Jan 2010, 21:50

Can you also really lock the levels? That would solve all the problems.

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 24 Jan 2010, 22:06

shoving the balletype up in yarr ass would remove the problem :>~

nick-o-matic · Post by **nick-o-matic** » 24 Jan 2010, 22:25

Omg this is so going to be the new fashion

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 25 Jan 2010, 00:08

Invisible polys did not work too well in my bale xDDDDD anyways, I was making one trivia lev with many questions, but then I noticed that max polygon amount is 300 and I had 400 already =) so I made a shitty one, again. I will bale it tomorrow.

And I like these trivia levs, but someone should really come up with some nice "cheat protection".

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 31 Jan 2010, 17:53

I would like to give this thing a try. Or just some kind of random level generator. Can someone give me quick tutorial about the structure of .lev files and how polygons and objects are marked and any other info I should know?

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 31 Jan 2010, 18:38

Ribot has been working on a trivia ff generator. I don't know if he's been doing anything lately, but still, I don't think he's given up on it.

About the structure of a lev:

http://palomies.pelix.org/txt/lev.txt

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 31 Jan 2010, 18:45

Thank you so much for the link! Well, it might take some time before I get to teh trivia thing, but I will definitely try to make some random generator shit, maybe nekff )

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 31 Jan 2010, 21:14

I need some help

VERTEX[] - A vertex is just two doubles : x and y. 16 bytes of course.

These are the coordinates of the points I guess, but I don't understand. When I edit hex values, the vertice don't move at all or then crash

( How to do??

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 31 Jan 2010, 21:32

ville_j:some hex editors show the possible int, double, long (etc) values in a file. if you find the correct address of a vertex, your text editor will tell you the double value there under double. it will also suggest values for other kinds of variables, as the hex editors dont know where one variable start and where it ends. once you find the double value you can also change it, and edit the double value slightly and make it work.

using c or similar, you declare two double variables, x and y. set them to desired values and write them binary to file and elma will read the values correctly (for anywhere a double is requested). the same way you can use int for dword probably, as i did that on c in elma and linux, as well as in python.

also note that if you add any polygon or vertex it needs to be calculated and written in the beginning of the file, where it says integrity 1 - 4. how to calculate these numbers are written in the file too. once you have done this you can make any kind of level.

for making cheatproof levels, instead of invisible polygons i was thinking to create a killer on top of the flower. all flowers have a killer almost exactly on top of it. but the flower you can touch is like 1 pixel above the killer, and all other flowers are one pixel below the killer. that way you will die touching the killer if you go the wrong way.

tell me what programming language you use if you want any help. i can post here the python code for how to write a level. perhaps it could give you some help. for python to create a double value there is the function struct.pack. where you see struct.pack('4d',...) it means to create 4 doubles (i is for creating ints, 'ii' is the same as '2i'), which you then can write to the file. in c you would simply write the values of the double variables instead.

Code: Select all

import random
import struct


# polys
polys = []
polys.append( [-24.0, -8.0, 24.0, -8.0, 24.0, 2.0, -24.0, 2.0] ) # x,y, x2,y2... (list of vertices for one poly)
polys.append( [-22.0, -7.0, 22.0, -7.0, 22.0, 0.0, -22.0, 0.0] ) # x,y, x2,y2... (list of vertices for one poly)

# double x, double y, 1 flower|2 food|3 killer|4 start, 0 no gravity|1 gravity up|2 gravity down|3 gravity left|4 gravity right, animation number
objs = []
objs.append( [-2.0, -0.85, 1, 0, 0] )
objs.append( [2.0, -0.85, 4, 0, 0] )

# checksum
PSUM = 0
for i in range( len(polys) ):
    for j in range( len(polys[i])/2 ):
        PSUM += polys[i][j*2] + polys[i][j*2+1];
OSUM = 0
for i in range( len(objs) ):
    OSUM += objs[i][0] + objs[i][1] + objs[i][2]
PICSUM = 0


sum1 = (PSUM + OSUM + PICSUM) * 3247.764325643;
sum2 = 3261 + 11877 - sum1;

sum3 = 83 + 11877 - sum1; # there is an if unknown possibility that changes this value

sum4 = 40 + 12112 - sum1;


# write lev
f = open('test.lev','wb')
f.write('POT14') # elma level id

reclink = struct.pack( 'i', int(1633737894 * random.random()) ) # a random number for linking recs with this level
f.write( reclink[:2] + reclink )

# properties such as level is locked, etc
#levproperties = struct.pack( '8i', -2142987195, -1059911771, -1071493598, 1088481298, -2142987195, 1088337317, -2142987195, 1088349605 )
#f.write( levproperties )
checksum = struct.pack( '4d', sum1, sum2, sum3, sum4 )
f.write( checksum )

f.write('Trivia FFS - by Ribot                              ') # lev name
f.write('DEFAULT\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00') # lgr
f.write('ground\x00\x00\x00\x00') # ground texture
f.write('sky\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00') # sky texture

npolys = struct.pack( 'd', len(polys) + 0.4643643 ) # number of polygons + .4643643
f.write( npolys )
for p in polys:
    # 0 normal|1 grass, nverteces
    f.write( struct.pack('ii',0,len(p)/2) )
    for v in p: f.write( struct.pack('d',v) ) # vertex x|y as double

nobjs = struct.pack( 'd', len(objs) + 0.4643643 ) # number of objects + .4643643
f.write( nobjs )
for o in objs: f.write( struct.pack('ddiii', o[0], o[1], o[2], o[3], o[4]) )

# END STUFF
npics = struct.pack( 'd', 0.2345672 ) # number of pictures + .2345672
f.write( npics )
f.write('\x3A\x10\x67\x00') # end of data
#top10
tt = struct.pack( '86i', -1217788651, -1000739447, 1938816840, -1066353546, 800348127, -1140351475, -1972434845, 950872073, -1594264608, -1979711360, 1617522487, 1098320151, 874941612, -1733885268, -2130795063, -1265123105, -904014000, 1207648580, 945871095, -2108896380, -1852169167, 1796131190, -855870004, -1737185800, 1757086350, -1119040700, -197868391, 1749842571, 1889162072, -869576755, -2132796719, 879988526, 1188302567, -1711096547, -2077805633, -1542367226, 1964893200, 796438570, -276429082, -50735708, 1951674001, -1315833763, -111828234, -1907885277, -403421937, -1942399907, 948907729, 1757122495, -925681504, 999377289, -2013068611, -1669387035, 1465881525, 1273274784, 1811766289, -54119292, 152547729, -1516881007, -1119905676, -1985577634, 1390421892, -1566202012, 1934573712, -1878747084, -1514615521, -997702783, 432851416, 1704402477, 1479932998, 757782322, -1743369475, -1652237695, -1332978919, -1101720187, -1795250888, -622605419, 73998934, 1174900145, 883322003, -120564643, -518025084, -311970109, -161441736, 39569504, -1480450977, -813784227 )
f.write( tt )
tt = struct.pack( '86i', 2132518692, -1488789893, -1414531373, 56927180, -1105910996, 1162821806, 2114277620, -36964375, 1385168780, 491997179, -1413712333, -524795713, 218165015, 325467714, -1896459274, 1354020124, -1205945654, 1292894747, -326858266, -586944031, -1078419733, -805424471, 750985600, -1068620161, -475174840, 297462805, 1960070728, 681190513, -1732987475, -749331964, -795558174, 1471216402, 1454095461, 1004668535, 1161753947, -1343941375, 560923753, 886387172, 604975276, 1017579221, 716528785, -2073309592, -933218751, -54938605, -1281399893, -658237125, -1558338543, -863389944, 40683, -987837453, 679245799, -1991737184, -1999365303, -838445628, -1879070042, -1858589253, -1952203855, -322652327, -1595389392, -1176274212, -1024640864, 674807509, -814901226, 1259558259, -1443751604, 1122737412, 1272390029, -610597077, -2106699741, 872732885, -315048427, 1404440757, 844690809, -689364856, -1746998632, -1553295830, 804785245, 1449897157, -766412346, -312007383, 949813081, -880498733, -982562812, 918656802, -1782377297, 1290363096 )
f.write( tt )
f.write('\x52\x5D\x84\x00') # end of file
f.close()

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 31 Jan 2010, 21:53

Thanks, I think that might help. And first I was using C but then I decided to do it in php to make it ez available. I guess it is possible :Z Anyways yeah, I will now just try to write a new lev instead of examining already created ones with hex editor. Nice anti-cheat idea, hopefully you get your trivia generator done!

ribot · Post by **ribot** » 1 Feb 2010, 00:54

there is one problem i have found. when you write vertex values they have to be written in a certain order. the level created when you open editor in elma by default has the vertex values in this order:
-24.0, -8.0, 24.0, -8.0, 24.0, 2.0, -24.0, 2.0 (x,y,x2,y2,...)

it looks clockwise...but that doens't make sense i think. if you write the values in another order the level will act really strange. i have to figure out how to write the verteces properly. when igge reads this he must go and ask mila instantly!

note that it is not about confusing x and y values, but the x and y pairs cannot be written in any order you like

maybe someone can has saved my level maker tutorial for programmers i made some yeras ago?

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 1 Feb 2010, 10:48

Well, I think writing x and y pairs in random order wouldn't make any sense. As long as the x,y values next to each other are always connected, I don't see a problem. But maybe I just didn't get it..

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 1 Feb 2010, 12:36

I think I have your tutorial from your website at home on some disc.. maybe I can has take a look when school can has end.

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 1 Feb 2010, 22:08

Bleh, I don't seem to be able to write those doubles right way so I must give up. Tried both php and c and fail, only managed to get POT14 right xD Anyways, I would be more interested in designing different kinds of algorithms how to count vertice positions, to make pipes, uphills, nekff, haircut... but writing that lev file seems sooo impsy xD

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 2 Feb 2010, 16:06

I think this is the closest I can get to a lev generator atm:

http://gen.oktobia.org/

It creates a picture of uphill level, which you can then convert with radims levmaker. You can also specify a parameter nekit=true like this: http://gen.oktobia.org/?nekit=true so the script will act like nekit ) Also you can give a parameter objects=true like this http://gen.oktobia.org/?nekit=true&objects=true and the script will add start, apples and end. Of course you don't want those if u gana convert with radim, but just to show that if/when I will be able to write the data straight as a lev, it shouldnt be too hard.

This is just a beginning, I will try to improve it, and make pipes, maybe some flat track kind of hoyla and such. This way it wouldn't be too hard to make trivia levs also, but I think I let ribot to make it perfect xD

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 2 Feb 2010, 16:50

well do you know the exact level structure?

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 2 Feb 2010, 18:55

Yes, Igge's link explains it all I guess. But I just can't write the information in right format.

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 2 Feb 2010, 19:40

ah that .txt was already mentioned

then never mind. maybe you should disassemble the default lev when entering editor(rectangle), try to understand how and why are the double values such as coordinates presented there, then try to make script that creates the same level, disassemble the product of the script and compare

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 2 Feb 2010, 20:58

That's exactly what I've been trying to do, but with no success. Maybe someone who knows more about php could help, Kopaka or someone? For example, if I have a double 5.6 and want to write it to file as binary, and it's size has to be 8 (like one vertex coordinate), does it automatically write 8 bits and right way?

edit: I think I got it right now o,o

edit: Holy shit I just did it! xD Ok, here comes random generated levels!

edit: Ok, now I understand what ribot was talking about that x,y coordinates don't make any sense... they really don't, at least yet. If you know, please tell.

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 3 Feb 2010, 14:18

This is from Ribot's Mongosite. Maybe you could understand the level making a bit better after reading this.

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 3 Feb 2010, 15:41

I think I've got the right idea now. Soon I'll bring that uphill generator available. And plz don't tell me to fuck off like some people in belma when I test played levels. I will also start working with pipes, and flat trackish hoyl levs. If you have ideas, you can suggest.

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 3 Feb 2010, 16:34

Assuming you did, yhy would you balle beta levels though?

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 3 Feb 2010, 16:41

Of course I needed to see how impsy the generated levels are? Turned out not-so-impsy.

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 3 Feb 2010, 18:24

Ok now the beta-version is online http://gen.oktobia.org/.

Lukazz · Post by **Lukazz** » 3 Feb 2010, 21:50

oh, you managed to make a .lev file directly.

congratz ville, this is amazing!

Bludek · Post by **Bludek** » 3 Feb 2010, 22:22

very cool even though I do not like uphills.

edit: it's downhill generator too

Just swich start and end. Funny levs as well.

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 4 Feb 2010, 14:11

Since you already made those three different "modes" (wide - normal - nekit) could you try to make one of those Smooth Uphill types where it is all about Grip?

This is of course not so fun as ff, but I love those uphill grip lvls ;D

I attached one example

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 4 Feb 2010, 15:03

Yes I think it will be easy. Vertex position is always higher than previous one, and the distance between vertice is quite long. Does that sound like something you want?

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 4 Feb 2010, 17:06

"distance = long" Yes
angle difference between each vertex no bigger than 40 degrees or something.

Steepness of the hill should not be more than some 60 degrees.

don't know how your script is set up.

I tried to explain it with a painting

Maybe you could just try something first and then if it doesn't work just do some quick fix? =)

FinMan · Post by **FinMan** » 4 Feb 2010, 17:40

One idea in Xiphis ff's could be that the hardness level would increase in higer degrees than x° and decrease in lower ones. That could make it possible every time and still hard if you understood.

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 5 Feb 2010, 22:29

Oki I made teh smooth thing just like Xiph suggested. No different levels though... yet. You think it's ok?

http://gen.oktobia.org/

Mawane · Post by **Mawane** » 6 Feb 2010, 02:35

can u make different levname for each mode?

EDIT:
noticed taht lev must enter in a particular area of infinity, if not, it glitches when spying people (bike has stop forwarding in borders)
some translation to bottom a little could fix that (since height is too high in Smooth mode at least, dunno about other modes)

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 6 Feb 2010, 13:09

I don't know why I have so hard time understanding you xD I haven't seen any buggy things in those levels, but havent spied those smooth mode levels... you mean like when spied, if bike goes "too" high, you can't spy it anymore? And I really don't get what you suggest to fix it =D Anyways thanks for the info, I will see to it..

edit: Ok I just test balled one and saw it. Very weird that you only see the glitch when spying... I guess mila knows what are good coordinates for spying.

$xmin = 0.0;
$xmax = 180.0;

$ymin = -180.0;
$ymax = -70.0;

These are the variables in my script, so it's ez to change. However I don't see why there is a problem...

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 6 Feb 2010, 13:44

mawane is just picky

If you look in the Elma Internal editor the maximum height/length of a level you can make in is in fact the "spy-radius". (makes sense? xD)
The problem is that Elma actually supports levels bigger than that, e.g. you can make these bigger levels with ALE. This is where the bug occurs =/.

So maybe check what the Length/Height say in the Internal editor (Remember that if you have Smibu's "mega zoom patch" this will be harder to check.)

But as you said. What's the problem? ;D

Keep up the good work =)

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 6 Feb 2010, 14:07

I think you maybe wrong... all those levels work in the original editor and don't say "level height/width too big". Like they do if I create big enough one. Or then you are right and the elma system is not that accurate when checking if is too big?

edit
And in these smooth hills height is smaller than width... and the bike still moves in x-axis, but not y. So thats strange too.

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 6 Feb 2010, 14:36

Let me demonstrate what I mean with a picture.

Edit: Actually now that I come to think of it, notice what I wrote in yellow. Not sure but I think this SpyBug only occurs when the level max Long/Wide. Else it will work as normal spy.

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 6 Feb 2010, 14:40

That is kind of what I ment in my post... But anyways, who knows the max height/width of Good Spy-zone? And is Good Spy-zone y smaller than x, as it seems?

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 6 Feb 2010, 15:08

I'm not good at this =D=D=D=D=D But I think it's fun to try xD

What is wrong with this one? Why does it not work?