World cup VIII format

General discussion about the games and the scene.

Moderator: Moporators

Post Reply
User avatar
Kopaka
39mins club
Posts: 6459
Joined: 23 May 2002, 13:59
Team: LAME
Location: In a northern danish city beating YOUR record.
Contact:

World cup VIII format

Post by Kopaka » 9 Oct 2019, 10:53

Would like to see some discussion on the format of a possible upcoming world cup. This is things like length of events, amount of events, types of levels, special events etc.

In World Cup 7 we tried a couple of new things.

2 half week events
- to not make hoyling a short level too boring for an entire week
- to shorten the overall length of the world cup while still having 15 events

1 event that lasted the entire cup during other events
- give people something to do if they're bored of current event
- possibility to add a level some may consider too long for a normal event
- to shorten the overall length of the world cup while still having 15 events

Except for world cup 3 and 4 (20 events) all world cups have been 15 events.

Possible discussion points:
- What did you think of special events in world cup 7?
- How many events and how many weeks is appropriate?
- Is 1 week per event still the best format?
- Other ideas you have thought of?

User avatar
Orcc
Moporator
Posts: 1641
Joined: 19 Oct 2004, 20:44
Team: IS
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by Orcc » 9 Oct 2019, 11:09

- What did you think of special events in world cup 7?
Half week events can be deadly if they happen to occur during a busy period in life. People have höyled short internals for years, so one week for a höylä lev is not that much really. For a long level that lasts the entire cup it felt like people didn't really find time for playing it, also point-wise it's better to focus fully on single week events.

- How many events and how many weeks is appropriate?
20 weeks is overkill, that's close to half a year of intense höyling and people get really exhausted. I think 15 weeks is maximum, maybe even consider 12.

- Is 1 week per event still the best format?
Yes

- Other ideas you have thought of?
One skip is good to have for some flexibility and a chance to load your batteries on a level you don't find enjoyable.
NoobSty2-competition

"If you're afraid of pedophiles - grow up"

User avatar
pawq
38mins club
Posts: 6163
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 19:56
Team: TR
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by pawq » 9 Oct 2019, 11:34

- What did you think of special events in world cup 7?
Half-week events can be fun, but as Orcc said, many can be unable to play at least one for personal reasons, very ez to not find time for 3 days. The whole-cup event was nice (sik lev), but no time to play, always more urgent to play the current event, so ended up playing a bit just in the last 2 weeks. Judging by the (shit) results, I think that was the case for almost everyone, so having the choice, I think I'd rather avoid it.

- How many events and how many weeks is appropriate?
15 weeks is overkill, that's close to half a year of intense höyling and people get really exhausted. I think 12 weeks is maximum, maybe even consider 10.

Honestly, just think how quiet EOl was after WCup7, everyone was so burnt out. I know WCup is meant to be about endurance and all, but the reality is that we're not 15-year olds at school with infinite time anymore (no offence arse), so it's getting harder and harder to commit that much time and energy. Given that WCup7 was 13 weeks long and still felt long af and burnt people out, I'd (seriously) consider 12 or even 10 weeks.

- Is 1 week per event still the best format?
Probably yes

- Other ideas you have thought of?
One skip is good to have for some flexibility and for the how??? lev where you just do really shitly

Also, maybe could consider 2 simultaneous 1-week events to spice things up? Solves the problems of not finding time to play in 3/4-day events and of postponing a level forever in the 13-week event, it's more like a mini total-time battle, as in need to prioritise which lev to play now (where there's potentially more gain). Doing this, say, once in the middle of the cup could be a nice way to break the routine and have some fun (and torture ourselves with 10h/day hoylsessions :D)

Also, I'd very strongly support an actual 1-week break in the middle of the cup. I think this wouldn't hurt the hardcorers that much, but could potentially help the non-hardcorers a lot. I remember dying for a break in WCup7 after like 10 events or so. Could be perhaps nice to do like 6 weeks (5 normal 1-week events + 2 simultaneous events in 1 week), then a week of break, and then another 6 weeks, perhaps again with a double event at the end. That would allow people to catch a breath in the middle, and also encourage like a final straight push at the end of each half.
Last edited by pawq on 9 Oct 2019, 11:43, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
kuchitsu
Kuski
Posts: 1246
Joined: 13 Aug 2010, 20:31

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by kuchitsu » 9 Oct 2019, 11:36

I liked shorter events very much and I would like to see more of these. It was hard for me to stay excited about the same level for a week, so usually I would play a lot in the beginning and in the end but slack off in the middle, resulting in a weird "rhythm". However with these 3-4 day events I was really motivated to hoyl every day. Short events can also make the cup less exhausting due to taking less time. Remember that World Cup 5 had many short events, and that was a great cup. But I understand that back then most players had more time because they were younger, going to uni, etc.

The last level (the one available for the whole time) seemed very unsuccessful to me. If I had motivation for wcup hoylng I would usually focus on the current level, and if I wanted to take a break from it I would just play battles. I think very few people played it really seriously?

I don't like idea of a pipe event because if you're not a good piper that's pretty much a forced skip and then you have no skips left. But you could make an argument that wcup is supposed to test all sorts of skills I guess. Still, I would prefer 2 skips so that non-pipers would have some choice too.

User avatar
FinMan
36mins club
Posts: 1913
Joined: 13 Feb 2007, 11:14
Team: dat
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by FinMan » 9 Oct 2019, 12:02

Shorter events too easily become a question who has the ability to do the least of anything else during the event. Of course being able to do a good time in any given time will reward the best performance but having something unavoidable on let's say 2 of the 3 days an event is on easily results in you not having a chance to get on the same line with others.

Shorter events aren't a bad idea though, it just emphasizes the need for good level design more, where you don't likely need to go for some insane 1 in a million type of shortcuts or similar, but instead more raw skill (or höyling) based levels.

just random 2 cents to throw out there
... .. Pipe levels ... . ...Höylä levels .. ...
"Those who are heartless once cared too much."

User avatar
SveinR
Moporator
Posts: 5380
Joined: 21 May 2002, 08:05
Location: Oslo, Norway
Contact:

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by SveinR » 9 Oct 2019, 13:24

First off, great to see that work is being done on organizing another World Cup! :beer:

2 half week events
I don't mind this, I like having some shorter hoyla events. But as others have pointed out, it might become an issue if you don't have much time during those 3-4 days. One solution that would also shorten the overall length of the cup could be to have two simultaneous hoyla events instead? So you could have one week to play both. Or there could be some overlap maybe, let's say total of 8 days for two five day events? Something like that.

1 event that lasted the entire cup during other events
I don't think this worked, sorry. Maybe would have worked better if the lev was pure cruise, I just didn't find it that enjoyable so didn't play it much...

What did you think of special events in world cup 7?
See above.

How many events and how many weeks is appropriate?
15 events seems good. 3 months/13 weeks maybe?

Is 1 week per event still the best format?
Yes, but as said above could vary it for some events. I wouldn't mind a battle or two either but I see that it would be difficult to make it fair, even if was like "choose 1 of 3".

Other ideas you have thought of?
I think 20th anniversary of Elma should somehow in some way be a part of the World Cup in 2020. But no idea how.
Was it cast for the mass who burn and toil?
Or for the vultures who thirst for blood and oil?
Rules | FAQ

User avatar
Bjenn
35mins club
Posts: 2361
Joined: 25 Apr 2007, 14:23
Team: EF
Location: Östersund, Sweden

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by Bjenn » 9 Oct 2019, 14:54

1 event that lasted the entire cup during other events
I didn't like this, felt like I didn't have enough time to play the level that spun over the whole event. I want to focus on one level only for 1 week.

2 half week events
Even shorter levels should have 1 week each, that way you can rest if you feel like you are done with it early in the week.

User avatar
kuchitsu
Kuski
Posts: 1246
Joined: 13 Aug 2010, 20:31

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by kuchitsu » 9 Oct 2019, 18:57

This might be off-topic but I hated how some people persistently played shown despite being kindly asked to stop many times. Really damaged the magic wcup feel, especially in the early events. I'm not sure if it's possible to make everyone hidden (I've heard nowadays we have a bit more control over the server?) and if it would be too harsh to punish people for playing shown, but maybe they should be at least publicly shamed somehow. It's really disrespectful imo.

User avatar
Zweq
35mins club
Posts: 3946
Joined: 28 Nov 2002, 15:54
Location: suo mesta

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by Zweq » 9 Oct 2019, 21:08

if i was to improve the wcup7 experience:
- switch one of those 60 min battle levs to a basic höylä (703, 707, 711, 712)
- no event that runs throughout the entire cup
- more varying design styles. E.g. less speedloops and smooth surfaces, more roughness and brutals / bounces required.
Image

User avatar
abruzzi
Kuski
Posts: 1351
Joined: 17 Sep 2007, 21:07

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by abruzzi » 9 Oct 2019, 23:55

i'll just quote=Orcc cuz kinda same entry
Orcc wrote:
9 Oct 2019, 11:09
- What did you think of special events in world cup 7?
Half week events can be deadly if they happen to occur during a busy period in life. People have höyled short internals for years, so one week for a höylä lev is not that much really. For a long level that lasts the entire cup it felt like people didn't really find time for playing it, also point-wise it's better to focus fully on single week events.

- How many events and how many weeks is appropriate?
20 weeks is overkill, that's close to half a year of intense höyling and people get really exhausted. I think 15 weeks is maximum, maybe even consider 12.

- Is 1 week per event still the best format?
Yes

- Other ideas you have thought of?
One skip is good to have for some flexibility and a chance to load your batteries on a level you don't find enjoyable.
<Pawq> at a gym you have only 3 options: 1. have your eyes closed, 2. stare at yourself, 3. stare at others, all of which are either super boring or disgusting

User avatar
iCS
Kuski
Posts: 274
Joined: 31 Dec 2015, 11:36
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by iCS » 10 Oct 2019, 08:52

saw many good ideas.
we could celebrate the 20 years by making wcup8 as simple as possible :D
10x1 week events
more short levs, less marathon levs
levs should have at least one noob-friendly (slow) route
"more brutals / bounces" and other shortcuts for the skilled players
pipe lev: i can't, but it looks good in wcupmovie :mrgreen:

diff idea:
maybe 1 rest-day between the events?
like results on saturday evening, and next event on sunday evening (yes, that's 6 hoyladays only, but might be enough)
can help if insist on 15 events

User avatar
Bludek
38mins club
Posts: 1587
Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 10:56
Team: CART
Location: Some pub in Prague

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by Bludek » 10 Oct 2019, 09:19

agre with many mans

idea
Instead of two short 3-4 days events there could be 2 levels in one week at the same time and kuski can choose, which one to hoyl. They could be similar or wastly different, it does not really matter, I guess. But as I understand it, there likely won't be a shortage of levels (everyone wants to have a lev in Wcup), but the playing time is a limiting factor for many players. Event like this would not make sense in a smaller cup, but in wcup with many players it could be a success. People can choose a level that would fit their playstyle more or a level they think might interest less players (and get more points like that).


12-15 events oke
1 week per event oke
at least 1 pie is a must
1 rollercoaster level is a thing of the past, imo, and not needed
there could be one level with wastly different rules (like bananacup4-different), but not more. It is a world cup after all - traditional cup with great history

User avatar
Bjenn
35mins club
Posts: 2361
Joined: 25 Apr 2007, 14:23
Team: EF
Location: Östersund, Sweden

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by Bjenn » 10 Oct 2019, 11:10

I liked this level in Rambo cup) https://youtu.be/e_wZvuCYRro?t=104

User avatar
SveinR
Moporator
Posts: 5380
Joined: 21 May 2002, 08:05
Location: Oslo, Norway
Contact:

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by SveinR » 10 Oct 2019, 11:17

Bludek wrote:
10 Oct 2019, 09:19
idea
Instead of two short 3-4 days events there could be 2 levels in one week at the same time and kuski can choose, which one to hoyl. They could be similar or wastly different, it does not really matter, I guess. But as I understand it, there likely won't be a shortage of levels (everyone wants to have a lev in Wcup), but the playing time is a limiting factor for many players. Event like this would not make sense in a smaller cup, but in wcup with many players it could be a success. People can choose a level that would fit their playstyle more or a level they think might interest less players (and get more points like that).
I think it's better that they are two separate events where you send in to both. Very annoy if hoyl some level max but turns out everybody else did also and you get some 30th place on that where similar run would get let's say 10th place in other level. Just from being unlucky in what lev you chose. Playing two hoyl levs in one week should be very doable (maybe even preferrable, if get tired of the one lev after max hoylage).
Was it cast for the mass who burn and toil?
Or for the vultures who thirst for blood and oil?
Rules | FAQ

User avatar
pawq
38mins club
Posts: 6163
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 19:56
Team: TR
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by pawq » 10 Oct 2019, 11:20

I agree with SveinR, and I actually suggested that above already :upside_down:
pawq wrote:
9 Oct 2019, 11:34
Also, maybe could consider 2 simultaneous 1-week events to spice things up? Solves the problems of not finding time to play in 3/4-day events and of postponing a level forever in the 13-week event, it's more like a mini total-time battle, as in need to prioritise which lev to play now (where there's potentially more gain). Doing this, say, once in the middle of the cup could be a nice way to break the routine and have some fun (and torture ourselves with 10h/day hoylsessions :D)

User avatar
Ramone
50mins club
Posts: 1916
Joined: 20 May 2002, 15:42

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by Ramone » 10 Oct 2019, 21:33

Complex new rules or ideas wont make it better.
Less than week events very cruel and for many only more stressful.
Separate events were in wc5 (if played a cant play b, so abit different) still bad. Ppl fail even the easiest of rules.
One long event is just bad, also idea to make that lev a monsterlev is just stupid, put everyone off even more.
World cup is, and should be, 1 week events. Perfect format.
There are other formats, great formats, but they are not WC, and thats why we have other events.
Less events seems like a good idea to me.

How about a one week break after each three events? Of a total of 12 events. It means 15 weeks from start of cup to the end of cup. With 2 skips (worst scores dont count, so you will still get a better chance if you play all, and not get punished so hard you quit if you by any reason cant play all) With 10/15 its a possible 1/3 of the time you can chill/catch up irl. And with 10 scoring events the theoretical max score is 1000 and that is just cool.

Also it would be better I made all levels. Levels from top players or teams, even edited is abit off. I would prefer to have one testplsyer for feedback/help that will not share info or play cup. Then it will all be a surprise. But need to be testplsyer who actually gets elma and me.
Elasto Mania - ez better

User avatar
Ramone
50mins club
Posts: 1916
Joined: 20 May 2002, 15:42

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by Ramone » 10 Oct 2019, 21:37

Conclusion: simplify

Current trend: opposite
Elasto Mania - ez better

User avatar
pawq
38mins club
Posts: 6163
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 19:56
Team: TR
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by pawq » 11 Oct 2019, 09:27

Ramone wrote:
10 Oct 2019, 21:33
How about a one week break after each three events? Of a total of 12 events. It means 15 weeks from start of cup to the end of cup.
This actually sounds amazing.

Currey
Beginner kuski
Posts: 1
Joined: 10 Oct 2019, 09:28

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by Currey » 11 Oct 2019, 12:25

What do you think week-long breaks would accomplish?

User avatar
ArZeNiK
39mins club
Posts: 455
Joined: 30 Jul 2016, 09:18
Team: Ferrari

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by ArZeNiK » 11 Oct 2019, 13:01

Currey wrote:
11 Oct 2019, 12:25
What do you think week-long breaks would accomplish?
players having time to relax
I like turtles
Image

User avatar
Bludek
38mins club
Posts: 1587
Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 10:56
Team: CART
Location: Some pub in Prague

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by Bludek » 11 Oct 2019, 13:54

One does not have to play every day in a week in every event. You can make breaks whenever you want. Three week-long breaks seem completely unnecessary to my.

edit: one break in teh middle might be oke, true.
Last edited by Bludek on 11 Oct 2019, 13:58, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
abruzzi
Kuski
Posts: 1351
Joined: 17 Sep 2007, 21:07

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by abruzzi » 11 Oct 2019, 13:56

ye bad idea lowering the hype
<Pawq> at a gym you have only 3 options: 1. have your eyes closed, 2. stare at yourself, 3. stare at others, all of which are either super boring or disgusting

User avatar
pawq
38mins club
Posts: 6163
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 19:56
Team: TR
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: World cup VIII format

Post by pawq » 11 Oct 2019, 17:45

You do have to play every single week if you want to be competitive. And that may not only be impossible, but also drains many players like hell (just look at how many quit before the end). Having these breaks (or break at least) should allow people to live closer to normal lives and not get too overwhelmed with WCup, while not reducing the competitiveness of the cup (if not even increasing it by keeping more players till the end).

Post Reply