How about an offical league?

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ribot
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How about an offical league?

Post by ribot » 8 Sep 2021, 11:54

I have been working on different league systems for elma over the years, and it has always seemed like a popular idea in the community. The problem from my side is that they have always been kind of hacks and haven't been included by eol. However, I think that now it's possible to have a league that's supported by elma online which can be created and held by the community.

Why there should be a league?
Cups are special events but leagues are ongoing seasonal events that show us who has been at the top of each season.

League Format Suggestion
This is a suggestion, based on being easy for the community (because the community is small and effort is not always available).
- League battles can be held in the normal battle system, but flagged as league (official) battles.
- Only approved (within the eol role system) level designers can host league battles. These designers are also responsible to hold the battles at proper times, when they have special levels. This way they will also be responsible for advertising league battles (which means a shared community effort for these battles to happen and continue to happen)
- League can be divided into seasons and divisions
- There can be different leagues for popular formats (I wouldn't suggest for all battle formats, but since for example chris often host apple battles there could be a league for that)
- Even teams could have their own leagues

League Battle Example
To make this easy to understand I will have an example with just a few players. In reality we will of course hope for more players for these battles.

So say there was a single official league battle with these results:
1. AKB
2. anpdad
3. deww
4. moshman

Now within this battle several matches have been going on (every player has met every other player)
AKB - anpdad: 1 - 0
AKB - deww: 1 - 0
AKB - moshman: 1 - 0
anpdad - deww: 1 - 0
anpdad - moshman: 1 - 0
dew - moshman: 1 - 0

This in turn would result in this league table:
AKB 3 wins 0 loss
anpdad 2 wins 1 loss
deww 1 wins 2 loss
moshman 0 wins 3 loss

And then you would apply the point system I suggested, where it doesn't matter how many matches you play in a season (as long as you play the minimum amount that can be decided later). Each win counts as +1 and each loss counts as -1:
AKB 3 wins 0 loss -> +3 points
anpdad 2 wins 1 loss -> +2 - 1 = +1 points
deww 1 wins 2 loss -> +1 - 2 = -1 points
moshman 0 wins 3 loss -> -3 points


Programming
Programming this could be a one time effort, kind of like with cups. After that it could be established online.
Last edited by ribot on 12 Sep 2021, 08:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How about an offical league?

Post by farnsworth » 9 Sep 2021, 21:13

i thought about having a small cup every (second/third) week or so with a little money prize from donations or something and winning prizes can put them in next cups prize, if dont want or donate to eol top3 get something and like someone random in the buttom 5 - becuase we like every participant!
Like the ones barry made, the 7x7 8x8 9x9 etc.
after dinner around 20:00-21:00
1-10 levels in 1 hour-2 hours.
So its just battles with scoreboard on eol.
then there's some points for winning individual battle like from other cups.
this means no hard grinds. just fun(any fun battles?hehe) battles for 1-2 hours.

just to nab to set it up and start it, but i can put in a little something so it can run at least a month with 50eu for top3 and one in buttom 5. and hopefully some other ppl think it could be fun too, so it can run more weeks/months=)

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AndrY
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Re: How about an offical league?

Post by AndrY » 10 Sep 2021, 05:16

How about an offical league?
Yes, pls!

really was thinking too about make some tree-type cup, but this would be niec too.
anyway im too lazy now to make anything
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Re: How about an offical league?

Post by Kopaka » 10 Sep 2021, 23:00

Some kind of battle league/cup is something I've wanted to make for a while. Old site had something but could be more fleshed out, with option of being one offs, or with seasons, multiple point systems etc. Maybe a bit more a kind to eolcup.pro, but I don't really remember the details of that. I seem to remember it made it easier to arrange than it was on old eolsite, and it was nicely presented to players as well. Any ideas is welcome, how to make it easy for arranger, how to make it easy to understand that something is going on.

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Re: How about an offical league?

Post by Dorknoob » 11 Sep 2021, 00:15

I think some kind of a team aspect to the league could be really cool too.

Not sure if battle style or cup style (much longer to play) is best. But current ranking system while quite nice isn't quite a replacement because a lot of people play some battles just casually. So something that encourages players to turn on play hard mode would be really cool.

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Re: How about an offical league?

Post by Dorknoob » 11 Sep 2021, 00:18

Also, I think that if it doesn't require too much time commitment it could really bring some older players back. Like if it was just 1-2 hours twice a week. Or maybe could split the league into different parts so people could join just some events and not get too penalized.

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Re: How about an offical league?

Post by Dorknoob » 11 Sep 2021, 00:22

Also, what about a system where people can compete during the short official event but also recognize times beyond the initial event (either for a week/month after, or maybe just for all time). Just some sort of a league page that lists both the league event winner and the current record holders or w/e.

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Re: How about an offical league?

Post by specter2 » 11 Sep 2021, 16:31

a league is a good idea for sure and has been talked about for a decade at least. however it is a bit challenging if the fixtures are normal battles because people might miss them easily and the league could become somewhat unbalanced quickly.

ribot wrote:
8 Sep 2021, 11:54
Now within this battle several matches have been going on (every player has met every other player)
AKB - anpdad: 1 - 0
AKB - deww: 1 - 0
AKB - moshman: 1 - 0
anpdad - deww: 1 - 0
anpdad - moshman: 1 - 0
dew - moshman: 1 - 0

This in turn would result in this league table:
AKB 3 wins 0 loss
anpdad 2 wins 1 loss
deww 1 wins 2 loss
moshman 0 wins 3 loss
this is also a bit problematic since it's dependent on the amount of players, so some rounds would randomly have more weight than others.

what comes to coding it is a trivial thing and could be as simple as letting a user create a new league and manually adding the ids of the battles that are part of the league, getting results and generating tables from those battles is easy.

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Re: How about an offical league?

Post by ribot » 11 Sep 2021, 18:41

specter2 wrote:
11 Sep 2021, 16:31
a league is a good idea for sure and has been talked about for a decade at least. however it is a bit challenging if the fixtures are normal battles because people might miss them easily and the league could become somewhat unbalanced quickly.

ribot wrote:
8 Sep 2021, 11:54
Now within this battle several matches have been going on (every player has met every other player)
AKB - anpdad: 1 - 0
AKB - deww: 1 - 0
AKB - moshman: 1 - 0
anpdad - deww: 1 - 0
anpdad - moshman: 1 - 0
dew - moshman: 1 - 0

This in turn would result in this league table:
AKB 3 wins 0 loss
anpdad 2 wins 1 loss
deww 1 wins 2 loss
moshman 0 wins 3 loss
this is also a bit problematic since it's dependent on the amount of players, so some rounds would randomly have more weight than others.

what comes to coding it is a trivial thing and could be as simple as letting a user create a new league and manually adding the ids of the battles that are part of the league, getting results and generating tables from those battles is easy.
My idea was such that it doesn't matter how many battles you play. It's inspired by rocket league's system where it doesn't matter how much you play.

For example a win is 1 point and a loss is -1 point. So if you get consecutive wins you climb up, but if you win as much as you lose you remain at zero. Then there could be a minimum amount of matches per season in order for your position to count.

So people don't have to play each battle, which means a lot easier to organize
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Re: How about an offical league?

Post by specter2 » 11 Sep 2021, 18:50

im sorry but i don't understand how that point system works

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Re: How about an offical league?

Post by ribot » 11 Sep 2021, 18:57

Dorknoob wrote:
11 Sep 2021, 00:22
Also, what about a system where people can compete during the short official event but also recognize times beyond the initial event (either for a week/month after, or maybe just for all time). Just some sort of a league page that lists both the league event winner and the current record holders or w/e.
It's a good idea
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Re: How about an offical league?

Post by ribot » 12 Sep 2021, 08:04

specter2 wrote:
11 Sep 2021, 18:50
im sorry but i don't understand how that point system works
If you take this table from the original example, where every player played 3 matches in one battle:
AKB 3 wins 0 loss
anpdad 2 wins 1 loss
deww 1 wins 2 loss
moshman 0 wins 3 loss

And then you would apply the point system I suggested, where it doesn't matter how many matches you play in a season (as long as you play the minimum amount that can be decided later). Each win counts as +1 and each loss counts as -1:
AKB 3 wins 0 loss -> +3 points
anpdad 2 wins 1 loss -> +2 - 1 = +1 points
deww 1 wins 2 loss -> +1 - 2 = -1 points
moshman 0 wins 3 loss -> -3 points

So if a person plays 100 matches in a season, with 50 wins and 50 losses, they would end up with 0 points. And another person who performed similarly, playing 50 matches, with 25 wins and 25 losses, would also have 0 points.
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Re: How about an offical league?

Post by specter2 » 12 Sep 2021, 09:14

alright but it doesn't really solve the problem i think

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