radim's levelmaker - new dimension on levelmaking

General discussion about the games and the scene.

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psy
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Post by psy »

BarTek wrote: 1. What if there was a new pacth for elma that made bouncing LOT higher and driving that was EVEN faster? How would the wr brakers that worked for so loooong with the records FELL, huh??? Same thing ok!
There's been a couple of those patches and they were banned, because affecting the playing is quite different than affecting levmaking. You dont compete on how fast you build a level.
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Post by insane guy »

hmm....
i think i came to a decision because lots of people posted intelligent stuff here:
i wont use this prog, because its too complicated (noitsnot - i know) andi dont like that way of making levs...
but: levs like i make and like wont be easier to make because you have to edit a lot until every gap works (someone said that)...
and if you want perfect and detailed forms and figures why not use this prog?
its maybe like cheating against traditionals but sooner or later nobody will complain about it..
ITS THE SAME WITH ALOVOLT (at least to me) i alwaysplayed elma without knowing the alovolt trick, then somebody told me left+right key butwhen the patch for alovolt button came, i didnt like it because it reduced the skill you need to play elma "professional" (at least in my opinion)...
but now everyone accepts it and i guess many cant imagine elma without that patch any more....
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Post by MagnusB »

BarTek wrote:What if a patch made it easier to drive those levs you got wrs on? so even noobs could with bit of luck make wr, how would you feel?
You're missing the point again. If even noobs could drive as fast as you could without the patch, then surely you would be able to driver much faster than them with the patch. And besides, this is completely different. You seem to think that there's no skill involved in using the program, have you even tried it?
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Its great prog!

Post by MaZ »

I have heard many people whining about the lousy editor in original Elma, now when there is a new editor people are whining against it. DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

I understand BarTek, he's a great leveldesigner. But why are people talking about a new simplier editor when they dont want it?

I would like to say. stop whining about a simplier editor if you dont want one.
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Post by Harald Hasch »

nobody's whining about the lousy editor in original elma.
its great!!

maybe i'll try that prog once. but i think the people shouldnt use it in LOM.
there should be a seperate thing....
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Post by MagnusB »

No, seriously, the elma editor really isn't good. It's not horrible, but it could've been so much better.

I've asked twice already, but no one has answered. Those of you who are against the program, do you not want people to be able to make better levels?
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Post by insane guy »

sure i want, but read my post somewhere up there^^
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Post by Harald Hasch »

maybe your right Magnus, its not "perfect".

but we should be happy with what we got :wink:
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Post by dz »

someone post screenshots inside the new editor?
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Post by SveinR »

dz wrote:someone post screenshots inside the new editor?
I haven't tried the program, but from what I've read at seems like you just make the lev in a draw program like MS Paint.
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Post by MagnusB »

Like Svein said, there's not actually an editor. All the program itself does is to convert a bitmap to vectors.
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Post by Vaitork »

this topic could be called Radim's LeverHELPER, since u can't actually MAKE a level, just those cool details of one 8) that's why i think even Bart can take advantage of it and make lots of great levels like he always do :D
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Post by MagnusB »

As you can see the topic name is "Radim's levelmaker", not "Radim's level editor".
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Post by Vaitork »

MagnusB wrote:As you can see the topic name is "Radim's levelmaker", not "Radim's level editor".
My point is that u can't MAKE a whole good level just with this, but it could HELP doing one :wink:
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Post by Harald Hasch »

thats the problem vaitork!
it would be better if you use it for decoration or small parts of the level.
not that the old editor wouldnt be used anymore...
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Post by 2fast »

I can`t get this program working.when I enter the make.bat then it says Bad command or file name and yea I downloaded the other program(19MB)
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Post by MagnusB »

You have to right-click on the bmp2lev.bat file and select Edit. Where it says '-loadbmp x.bmp', x.bmp should be a bmp file you have in the same directory. '-savelev x.lev' means that it saves the level as x.lev.
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Post by 2fast »

Thanks,I got it now
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Post by teajay »

has Bartek in the first place ever tried the program for making levels?
there is no way that levels could be better with only the shapes in better conditions.
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well

Post by Viper_KillerGuy »

I don't think anyone without leveling experience will make good levels with this patch.
I rather think it will start a new wave of super-noob levels, where some moron make a level with the one purpose of showing the most nude people.
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Re: well

Post by SveinR »

Viper_KillerGuy wrote: a level with the one purpose of showing the most nude people.
Hmm, I hadn't though of that... ;)
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Post by MagnusB »

1-bit porn just doesn't cut it. :lol:
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Post by epp »

BarTek wrote:Shiit

- Elma just became more boring now!
- Even noobs can win LOM now!
That was low, BarTek...
What a sucky thing to say! Just coz´ ppl havent played as long as you did, or they havent made as much lev´s or just did anything for the elmascene, theyre n00bs ! At least if ppl ask you 8[

So would you plz stfu ?
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Post by Loz »

this rocks, gotta use it more often, maybe a gui in the next update???
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Post by MagnusB »

Let's try to maintain an acceptably high level of intelligence in our debating here, PLS?
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Post by marty »

BarTek wrote:eppej: ok tnx, ps: u can shut up too
jesus christ, get a fucking life already. how old are you? you're like the dirty old complaining man of elma.
eh.
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Post by skint0r »

this program doesn't need to be "validated" by moposite.
and i'd like to see the day when you actually start argumenting rationally bartek.
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Post by Antz »

bartek your comments arent much more than childish mocking of other posters. it seems like you're just pouting . well pout all you like if it makes u feel any better. it's fun to read what u have to say.
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Post by sonic_fruit »

look everyone, it's just getting personal now.
calm down.
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Post by Kopaka »

omg, why does you ppl don't understand BarTek ? He's the best in the world making those little polygon details, and with this new program, everyone can do what he can do without it. :/
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Post by Antz »

i can very well understand why he doesn't like the program, but the way he has commented against it, simply insulting everyone else telling his opinion (that differs from barteks), is what i don't like about this.
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Post by Chris Penrose »

BarTek wrote:<You can kill teh levmaker but u cant kill the levmaker within you>
That sounds so cool. I'm on bartek's side now.
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Post by Harald Hasch »

me too :P
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Post by MagnusB »

I understand perfectly why you don't like the program, but I still don't agree with you. I respect your opinion, but I really don't get it. Have you noticed any changes whatsoever in levelmaking since the editor was released? There have been a few stupid levels with text and things like that in them (I've made one myself), but seriously...is it really such a big deal.

You make it sound like the program will make you a worse levelmaker, while all it really does is to make other people better levelmakers. Maybe the program could help you too? Have you even tried it?

I'm sorry that the program will make it easier to do what you've been worked hard on for a long time, but that really isn't a good argument.
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Post by Juble »

Definte No No for LOM(people put a lot of time into LOMs and just see someone to easily draw pictures and you sit there for 30 mins drawing it in the normal editor and they just import pictures in to it :x ) .

But for personal levels its fine with me :) .
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Post by Kloque »

Dont forget the number 1 defing principal of a good lev, is it fun??? Well nothing about this prog can make it easier to make funner levs, and from what I've seen you cant really make them THAT much better, just alot faster. so in the end really people like me (I've made 500+ levs) will get more appreciation for good levs withought the prog.
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Post by jw »

BarTek wrote:omg you ppl are stupid!1
2. What if all formula 1 drivers got a computer program installed that made driving lot easier, how would Mika Hekkinen feel??
This patch isn't about making driving easier, it's more like making it easier to make a road, not all handjob, but with the help of a machine
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Post by Kopaka »

When I saw the LOM april levels, I got kinda sad. It was easily to see that two of the levels was made with this prog. And then you think, is all the polygon made with the prog, or only some of them ??? Must have been hard for raters to rate this.

So pleeeeaaaaaaase don't use this prog in level contests like LOM, eLopa, ILDC ect.
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Post by J-sim »

Kopaka wrote:When I saw the LOM april levels, I got kinda sad. It was easily to see that two of the levels was made with this prog. And then you think, is all the polygon made with the prog, or only some of them ??? Must have been hard for raters to rate this.

So pleeeeaaaaaaase don't use this prog in level contests like LOM, eLopa, ILDC ect.
WTF is all i have to say. That is a stupid and unnesecary comment, and this has even been debated before. Radims tool is hard to use to just make a lvl like that, you always have to edit in the "real" editor afterwards. And not like levels just become perfect cos you use this program, you still have to have the original idea and bring it to life, this can just be a help along the way. Why not make it easier?! Plus in those contests you mention picturing the levels is also very important and that cant be done with this program. SATAN
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Post by MagnusB »

MagnusB wrote:The point here is that the program doesn't make it easier to make good levels! It makes it easier to make complicated shapes, and that's about it.

If someone invented a new kind of computer that was 1000 times faster than the best computers today, should we boycott it because the people who made the old computers were offfended?
It's just progress.
I'm quoting myself to show that we've been through all this before. Don't you have any better arguments than "It makes it easier to make levels!!! It's not fair!!"?
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Post by Harald Hasch »

all the people that support this program, i understand...
but all the people that use it in LOM and stuff, it would be fair if we know wich levels are helped with radims thingie
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Post by jw »

I still didn't try the program, but you can make a print on a sheet, stick the sheet on your monitor and than it isn't to difficult to coppie a drawing/photo, you can think of a lot of other tricks, but have people to say if they use it? Some people have friends who are better kuski's so they can make test-drives, do they have to say that? I think a leveldisigner can use what ever he want as long as he ends up with a nice level.
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Post by Antz »

jw wrote:You can make a print on a sheet, stick the sheet on your monitor and then it isn't to difficult to copy a drawing/photo.
seriously that's complicated, just find some cool blacknwhite pic and do a level of it it's that ez.
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Post by jw »

Yeah, I know that this prog is easier, but I mend, if the prog isn't aloud, or people think it is to easy, what is aloud and what isn't?
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Post by MagnusB »

There are no rules. No one asks how you made the level. There's no such thing as 'cheating' in level making (except for stealing other people's levels of course, if that's possible).
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Post by Kopaka »

OK, then use it and destroy the fun of level contests....
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Post by insane guy »

...with themes
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Post by Juble »

MagnusB wrote:There are no rules. No one asks how you made the level. There's no such thing as 'cheating' in level making (except for stealing other people's levels of course, if that's possible).
yeah I call it cheating in contest

and it takes the skill out level designing

In april LOM you can clearly see who used it.
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Post by Antz »

yeah but those levels weren't any better than the rest of the levels, and at least nr3 (i'm fairly sure it's made with radim prog) wasn't any good because it was made with the prog, it was cleverly built. and it sure wasn't ez and quick to make even as a picture.

i don't think radim prog levels are any better, just different. you can do things that aren't possible without it, but you can't do things that are any better (except in amount of detail) than normal editor levels.
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Post by MagnusB »

It does not take the skill out of level designing. I'm about to give up now, it's apparent that you're not listening to what we're saying anyway.
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