Petition against uphill FF's

Kopaka · Post by **Kopaka** » 9 Jan 2010, 22:13

Belma is getting infested with these boring to dead hard uphill first finish battles that are no fun to play at all.

I'm know I'm not the only one who thinks this, and pretty sure that it's a very few people who actually like them. It's okay everyone once in a while if a few people like them, but I see them many times a day, or just make an uphill as a PART of a level with other things too. So to those who make them, please consider to make much fewer of them :*

I know of a lot of them probably don't read lauta, so when they are battled, complain so the designers know they are not wanted.

Agree?

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 9 Jan 2010, 22:17

http://mopolauta.moposite.com/viewtopic ... 89&start=0

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 9 Jan 2010, 22:17

NO ))

Bludek · Post by **Bludek** » 9 Jan 2010, 22:19

YE ((

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 9 Jan 2010, 22:21

Yes. I agree.

But still, people used to complain about there being too many pipes, now too many uphills.. I'm sure something else is going to come along and take their place soon.

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 9 Jan 2010, 22:22

Everything changes... The weather changes ..Fashion changes .. Belma changes =)

Kopaka · Post by **Kopaka** » 9 Jan 2010, 22:24

Igge wrote:Yes. I agree.

But still, people used to complain about there being too many pipes, now too many uphills.. I'm sure something else is going to come along and take their place soon.

Pipe obsession started after world cup 4, that's about 7 years :/ can't wait that long

Bludek · Post by **Bludek** » 9 Jan 2010, 22:36

little OT: nekit's uphills are still maybe better, than his pipes. They were terrible as hell. Bumpy pies just suck.

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 9 Jan 2010, 22:58

some people really like these levels, that includes me. im serious.

Bismuth · Post by **Bismuth** » 9 Jan 2010, 23:05

agree, as soon as I see that kind of lev, I'm immediately off playing Labyrinth, or simply quitting.

Madness · Post by **Madness** » 9 Jan 2010, 23:42

Hahahahaha ))))
Let's wait for EOL, it'll be just experience... "drunk" nekffs 24/7

(And drunk MadPipes xDD)

And no, I don't agree, Nekffs aren't atleast just boring driving forward.
If there have been only normal battles, not many ppl would complain...

Kopaka · Post by **Kopaka** » 9 Jan 2010, 23:45

Madness wrote:If there have been only normal battles, not many ppl would complain...

Exactly, caus everyone likes those, so make more of those :)

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 10 Jan 2010, 01:13

thanks to these uphills elma feels fresh again. I can actually cruise a level for fun, not addicted to making wrs or addicted to ballewinning attention, just cruise for fun, fucking awesome.

start less FF's? yeah, you are probably right, although personally i wouldnt want normal balles ever anymore, only uphills, uphills and uphills. they are the best fun in this game since 2001. but sure the haters group might have a valid point they dont necessarily have to be started as balle, only shared via zworqy or sash

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 10 Jan 2010, 01:18

Zweq wrote:thanks to these uphills elma feels fresh again. I can actually cruise a level for fun, not addicted to making wrs or addicted to ballewinning attention, just cruise for fun, fucking awesome.

start less FF's? yeah, you are probably right, although personally i wouldnt want normal balles ever anymore, only uphills, uphills and uphills. they are the best fun in this game since 2001. but sure the haters group might have a valid point they dont necessarily have to be started as balle, only shared via zworqy or sash

who is sash??

Madness · Post by **Madness** » 10 Jan 2010, 01:28

Zweq wrote:not addicted to making wrs or addicted to ballewinning attention, just cruise for fun, fucking awesome.

That's so sad. No new WRs by Zweq anymore ?

Mawane · Post by **Mawane** » 10 Jan 2010, 03:38

Madness wrote:
Zweq wrote:not addicted to making wrs or addicted to ballewinning attention, just cruise for fun, fucking awesome.
That's so sad. No new WRs by Zweq anymore ? :(

no, just cruised wrs :)

Grace · Post by **Grace** » 10 Jan 2010, 04:39

Put it this way, they're levels that are made in 30 seconds that are only even doable by a very select group of people, more often than not you get stuck in one place for half the battle and they're always the same.

Please, seriously, they suck.

roope · Post by **roope** » 10 Jan 2010, 07:48

I sign this petition.

I think it's quite selfish to make these levs all day long, as so many people dislike them too. The key word is balance. It's really sad when I see newcomers join belma, and all they see is hard uphill ff's. Some quit and some start making the same kind of levs, and that ain't good.

On a side note, I believe the whole uphill ff boom would languish, if Zweq didn't stand behind it.

Labs · Post by **Labs** » 10 Jan 2010, 10:13

I hate this battle type too. 1-2 daily would be ok.

Drace · Post by **Drace** » 10 Jan 2010, 10:15

roope wrote:The key word is balance.

Thats so true! It ok if there is few uphills/day but not as much as nowadays. And cant those uphill-designers start lev for just 1-2 minutes so people get that lev and then they can play it as long as they want. That would leave room for other balles too.

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 10 Jan 2010, 10:23

ye ban pipes

Kiiwi · Post by **Kiiwi** » 10 Jan 2010, 10:35

Zweq wrote:ye ban pipes

YEEEEEESSSS!!!!!

....On topic, some 3 uphills/day'd be max. But then, who's to control the amount?

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 10 Jan 2010, 13:31

Apropos limiting certain things to a number of times a day, how about limiting parantheses to, say, 1 per line?

Bismuth · Post by **Bismuth** » 10 Jan 2010, 17:46

one ( and one ) so we could still talk normally, and Zweq and Nekit'd have to decide whether they are happy or sad ))())()()( XD()())))()

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 10 Jan 2010, 18:50

The_BoneLESS · Post by **The_BoneLESS** » 10 Jan 2010, 20:19

Uphill battles are fine in my opinion, but i would appreciate some diversity. Bumpy (aka nekit's/zweq's) uphill battles are awesome from time to time but they are getting boring as they are the only ones we ever get.

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 10 Jan 2010, 21:18

Lol and what about all the other shit levels that are on? do ppl forget them? Fucking Belma Level standard has gone down to Shitterest Shit nowadays .. Each and every normal balle is crappier than the other xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxsux

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 10 Jan 2010, 21:34

It's because I don't make balles anymore. ;D

gimp · Post by **gimp** » 10 Jan 2010, 22:42

i dont see a problem with any kind of level, my logic being that there are periods in belma where no level is battled at all for a long time. perhaps if belma was so popular that there was a constant flow of levels then i guess you could bitch about the ones you dont like, but there are times when i am on and any level battled is better than no level at all. for those who want to make an effort let them make an effort and for those who dont then oh well at least its on. also the rules for aborting can be shitty enough as it is this will just be one more thing to be enforced and less freedom for the users of belma.

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 10 Jan 2010, 22:46

gimp wrote:for those who want to make an effort let them make an effort and for those who dont then oh well at least its on.

The way I see it is:

I make an effort in making a level. What do I get in return? A random spike lev someone made in 1 minute that sometimes isn't even finishable.

Grace · Post by **Grace** » 11 Jan 2010, 01:56

Igge wrote:
gimp wrote:for those who want to make an effort let them make an effort and for those who dont then oh well at least its on.
The way I see it is:

I make an effort in making a level. What do I get in return? A random spike lev someone made in 1 minute that sometimes isn't even finishable.

most of the time*

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 11 Jan 2010, 02:14

Not everybody is graced with the great talent of making perfect levels within a minute. =)

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 11 Jan 2010, 08:18

Haruhi, ture.

But all I want is for people to at least put some effort into making their levels. That is all.

FinMan · Post by **FinMan** » 11 Jan 2010, 09:03

Blud wrote:little OT: nekit's uphills are still maybe better, than his pipes. They were terrible as hell. Bumpy pies just suck.

agree with this also.

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 11 Jan 2010, 11:21

I don't think you can just ban some level type, just like you can't ban pie. And I think these uphill things could be ok, if more effort was put into them. So maby ban nekit and morgan? xD This question about what kind of levels should be battled is very hard, because this: If you play balles, you are like taker. If you make balle levels, you are a giver. So why should takers be able to control all the givers and make them as their slaves and make everything like the great ballers, the takers, want. I think if someone is willing to make a lev, then one has also freedom of choice how to make it. I'm not sure if shit lev is better than no lev at all though.

Igge said that when he makes levels, he gets some shit levs in return. That must be true. Of course there are these few good designer whose levels I also enjoy, but 90% of the levels are not the kind I would want to play. What I expect is to be able to spy the level I made. If I miss spy, then I get angrey and think that everything was for nothing. I don't care if I get any good levels in return, that would just be too much to ask don't u think xD That is actually the reason why I started to make levels again. When I first discovered belma, I was so excited to get to play all those nice balle levs. Well, when I saw the quality of those shit levs, I was shocked. I criticized many things in many levs and people just said NO NO ITS GOOD YOU JUST SAY BECAUSE YOU CANT PLAY AND WIN. I was soo furious that I started making these baleNOBxx levels. With those levels I tried to show people what is the difference between hard, stupid and gay. These levels were max annoying and stupid, if someone still has them, I would want to play those again! Anyways, after some time I thought why not be myself and make people love me again, and here I am making nice levs again xD

I got a little carried away, but I end my words by saying: Today somewhere around 8pm GMT+2 I will start an uphill battle. It's not bumpy, it's a mixture of smooth and roughness. And at the end, there is a surprise o,o I think it's a good level, don't ban uphill (((

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 11 Jan 2010, 11:34

many problems will be resolved in eol, level queue, chat ignore, private chat messages, lev-starter not in results, can always spy own level, user rights levels/flags (where default setting cant start a battle so you need promotion to even start one), bans etc. too much energy is consumed to be angry about nothing, too much drama about nothing, just because of one reason, you play too much belma. and now im refering to these abort-battles few weeks ago and teh overdramatized shit everywhere like "die nekit" and so on.

Kopaka · Post by **Kopaka** » 11 Jan 2010, 11:50

As I said in my original post I don't suggest to ban uphills alltogether, I'm just asking designers to consider that many people doesn't like them and maybe make a few less. And to be honest I don't think it takes longer / more effort to make a "normal" level, it doesn't have to be sik igge/ville j whatever quality it's still much more interesting to play, than some uphill or pipe for that matter that is all the same and have no different styles, which I think is why I don't like them. People wouldn't like some level is the all straight downhill or speedloops ect.

Anyway I know that I shouldn't complain as I almost never make any levels myself, so you could just forget what I said, I aprreciate you making levels :*

Madness · Post by **Madness** » 11 Jan 2010, 17:45

ban belma

nick-o-matic · Post by **nick-o-matic** » 11 Jan 2010, 20:14

This is what nom thinks about uphill FFs

- yes, there's atm too much of them at belma even for me
- I understand those who doesn't like them
- mastering both spiky and smooth uphills always makes you better elma player though and those skills are useful at normal levels too after all so I don't recommend people to systematically skip them
- it's possible that you start liking them when you start understanding them (Madness

)
- upping hardest uphills to zworqy instead of battling is a good idea when it's prime time (can you send levels somehow to each other in EOL btw? - that would be nice)
- Smaxa said that uphill FFs are low effort levels but at least I have often used several hours to them - proofing every part to be possible is quite work sometimes
- yes, Nekit really makes them in 1min, but he has a very nice talent to "eyetest" them
- yes, even Nekit's levels are often impossible, but that gives some mystery when some part looks not possible and it's then twice more impressive if some Kazan makes it - in my lev you would know every part to be possible for (nearly) sure
- if you have never really played these uphills you can't say they are boring. imho those cruisish overplanned obvios-style normal levels that doesn't give you any freedom to drive differently are muuuch more boring
- the "Nekit-standard" starts to be a bit overused already though - there's much more other hard (uphill) FF possiblities too like BoneLESS said
- Nekit-speak only suits Nekit
- I think it's sad that the high amount of hard FFs pretty much ruins their reputation. few / day would be nice and sustainable amount
- it's pretty much irrelevant what a lev looks like
- VilleJ's uphill was cool

roope · Post by **roope** » 11 Jan 2010, 20:18

nick-o-matic wrote:

- Nekit-speak only suits Nekit

word.

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 11 Jan 2010, 20:29

- if you have never really played these uphills you can't say they are boring. imho those cruisish overplanned obvios-style normal levels that doesn't give you any freedom to drive differently are muuuch more boring

I used to love spike and uphill FFs, nowadays there a simply too many. And how exactly do uphill ffs provide freedom, when they're basically repeating the exact same movements until you get it perfect on the pixel?

- Nekit-speak only suits Nekit

Well, it certainly doesn't fit pawq, I'll tell you that. Goddamn.. Everytime I see nekit and pawq together I have turn the chat off.

- I think it's sad that the high amount of hard FFs pretty much ruins their reputation. few / day would be nice and sustainable amount

True

nick-o-matic · Post by **nick-o-matic** » 11 Jan 2010, 20:54

Igge wrote:And how exactly do uphill ffs provide freedom, when they're basically repeating the exact same movements until you get it perfect on the pixel?

Well, often it's like that for sure but also often there's several cool styles possible.

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 11 Jan 2010, 21:04

I would say 99% of all uphills offer no varaiation in style, when compared to "normal" levels.

nick-o-matic · Post by **nick-o-matic** » 11 Jan 2010, 21:22

Well... to flip or not to flip? :)

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » 11 Jan 2010, 21:29

Anyone can queue a lev, 1 person can start only 1 level at once, so instead of complaining go, make non-uphill levs and queue them all you like complaining.
I always say: any balle is better than no balle

Grace · Post by **Grace** » 11 Jan 2010, 22:18

nick-o-matic wrote: - Smaxa said that uphill FFs are low effort levels but at least I have often used several hours to them - proofing every part to be possible is quite work sometimes

yes, and truthfully there are people who spend 20 seconds making a normal level, so i don't want to generalise like that, however it seems that usually those making uphill spiky FF's are spending no time to make them at all. Heck, i've seen nekit say he hasn't actually tried to play his own level to test it on no less than 30 occasions.

However, if you spend a while perfecting it, (Like i know you do, nom, i do it with my levels too.) it makes them so much more entertaining.

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 12 Jan 2010, 00:30

last time i made uphill ff for longer time than 1 min (for 1 hour) the balle got aborted so im not surprised ppl arent interested in spending more than 1min making the lev anymore

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 12 Jan 2010, 07:09

I always spend very much time making a lev. And never ever has my lev been aborted!

FinMan · Post by **FinMan** » 12 Jan 2010, 09:08

nick-o-matic wrote:- if you have never really played these uphills you can't say they are boring. imho those cruisish overplanned obvios-style normal levels that doesn't give you any freedom to drive differently are muuuch more boring

Zweq wrote:last time i made uphill ff for longer time than 1 min (for 1 hour) the balle got aborted so im not surprised ppl arent interested in spending more than 1min making the lev anymore

These quotes are connected in right way - if you dont spend too much time makin normal level, it usually becomes better exactly for the noms thing. You dont have time to plan the styles and thats just good, it doesnt need anything else than its finishable with the most players' skills. And fyi, the most of time used in my balle levs usually is 20 mins or so, usually 10. Not saying my quality would be good atm but...

Madness · Post by **Madness** » 12 Jan 2010, 17:23

FinMan wrote:it doesnt need anything else than its finishable with the most players' skills

Sure, hard levels are bad because not every nab can finish them. So logic..