Why is the supervolt clockwise?

Lousku · Post by **Lousku** » 24 Sep 2010, 12:58

Programmers, what's the reason for supervolt (alo, whatever) being clockwise rather than counter-clockwise? I'm not saying it would be more logical of it to be counter-clockwise, but there must be some reason for inequality.

Does anybody know?

twipleyy · Post by **twipleyy** » 24 Sep 2010, 13:41

mawane wrote:What is alovolt? How has it come about? Why louder sound, why right and not left, why, why, and why.

Ves · Post by **Ves** » 24 Sep 2010, 14:10

Supervolt and Bounce bugs, and the Maths behind it

ribot wrote:mila has explained both of these bugs, however you know how he talks right? doesnt explain it very well.

supervolt is something like this:
press left and add force
press right and add force
if left button is pressed force clockwise
otherwise if right button is pressed force counter-clockwise
so if both buttons are pressed the force is double and direction to left

Lousku · Post by **Lousku** » 24 Sep 2010, 14:52

Sorry, I searched but missed that topic.

Anyway, it doesn't explain it too well. If someone has something to add, please do.

twipleyy · Post by **twipleyy** » 24 Sep 2010, 15:16

hex wrote:- why does the pressing of the brakes under pressure make such a violent push in a direction perpendicular to the ground?
- why does the simultaneous pressing of both directional keys produce this strange volt? after such a delay? of that intensity?

twipleyy · Post by **twipleyy** » 24 Sep 2010, 15:26

labroue wrote:the alovolt-patch invention came about as a tricks-abound necessity.

John · Post by **John** » 24 Sep 2010, 15:49

Possibly just the greatest unintentional bug ever? I don't know if that's likely but I can't imagine Balazs making the alovolt intentionally without making a countervolt the other way around. Perhaps he once had the idea of every level going from right to left (like the kuski is facing) and that the alo therefore would make the kuski go up on his backwheel. But that's unlikely too :S

jonsykkel · Post by **jonsykkel** » 24 Sep 2010, 15:58

i gues it just has smth to do with the order of left/right volt handling in the code

Lukazz · Post by **Lukazz** » 24 Sep 2010, 16:00

i remember reading that alo is a bug, yes. but i can't remember where i read it. ;o

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 24 Sep 2010, 16:09

Lukazz wrote:i tried to brutal with my mountain bike but it didn't work =(

Memphis · Post by **Memphis** » 24 Sep 2010, 16:13

haha I remember when I first played this game with some buddies we didn't know how to alo volt. I remember watching a replay or two with the alo done and were like, that looks like a cheated spin. We couldn't figure out how to do it until one day i accidently did it and then tried doing it a few times again which was quite difficult.

Ves · Post by **Ves** » 24 Sep 2010, 16:47

LousQ wrote:Anyway, it doesn't explain it too well

what you don't understand? want a piece of asm code from disassembled elma?

Lousku · Post by **Lousku** » 24 Sep 2010, 17:22

Ves wrote:
LousQ wrote:Anyway, it doesn't explain it too well
what you don't understand? want a piece of asm code from disassembled elma?

Efter kareful investigation of ribotext, I understand.

Pab · Post by **Pab** » 25 Sep 2010, 15:41

i saw the mopo twin peaks rec for years without finding teh alo, impsy start (

trew · Post by **trew** » 27 Sep 2010, 11:39

Memphis wrote:haha I remember when I first played this game with some buddies we didn't know how to alo volt. I remember watching a replay or two with the alo done and were like, that looks like a cheated spin. We couldn't figure out how to do it until one day i accidently did it and then tried doing it a few times again which was quite difficult.

exactly same happened to me, except I didn't have buddies.

Kazeta · Post by **Kazeta** » 5 Oct 2010, 01:05

if supervolt was anti-clockwise, he would be asking why it is anti-clockwise

Lousku · Post by **Lousku** » 5 Oct 2010, 01:22

Kazeta wrote:if supervolt was anti-clockwise, he would be asking why it is anti-clockwise

LousQ wrote:I'm not saying it would be more logical of it to be counter-clockwise, but there must be some reason for inequality.

Thanks for contributing.

Kazeta · Post by **Kazeta** » 5 Oct 2010, 02:45

you dont understand what i say, supervolt is clocokwise, but why? supervolt is anti-clockwise, but why? when elma gods created elma they on a furious battle to chose wether anticlockw or clockw they fliped a coin and clockwise won end of the story

Bismuth · Post by **Bismuth** » 5 Oct 2010, 05:09

The question is not "why is it clockwise and not counter-clockwise" but more "why is it clockwise only, and not counter-clockwise too?"

And since it has been specified (hence his quote from himself), your post was actually irrelevant.

Ves · Post by **Ves** » 5 Oct 2010, 08:53

Kazeta wrote:when elma gods created elma they on a furious battle to chose wether anticlockw or clockw they fliped a coin and clockwise won end of the story

except the fact elma gods are not omniscient and they just ported accidentally invented trick from across without changes

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 5 Oct 2010, 09:24

Kazeta wrote:you dont understand what i say, supervolt is clocokwise, but why? supervolt is anti-clockwise, but why? when elma gods created elma they on a furious battle to chose wether anticlockw or clockw they fliped a coin and clockwise won end of the story

as lous was saying and bis stated, the question is why there is no ballance? doesnt matter if its clockwise or anticlockwise

twipleyy · Post by **twipleyy** » 5 Oct 2010, 14:05

ribot wrote:mila has explained both of these bugs, however you know how he talks right? doesnt explain it very well.

supervolt is something like this:
press left and add force
press right and add force
if left button is pressed force clockwise
otherwise if right button is pressed force counter-clockwise
so if both buttons are pressed the force is double and direction to left

LousQ wrote:it doesn't explain it too well.

I concur. I do not understand that explanation. The extra y in twipleyy introduces questioning.

jonharkulsykkel wrote:i gues it just has smth to do with the order of left/right volt handling in the code

Probably. But, what exactly happens there, in code execution, just under the rendered graphics?

Kazeta wrote:when elma gods created elma they on a furious battle to chose wether anticlockw or clockw they fliped a coin and clockwise won

I so would need a video of this to get to understand it better.

Lousku · Post by **Lousku** » 5 Oct 2010, 15:29

This topic is now mocking a stupid question.

Kazeta · Post by **Kazeta** » 5 Oct 2010, 22:17

its like ask why the fuck the game is called elasto mania and not maniac elasto

Lousku · Post by **Lousku** » 5 Oct 2010, 23:36

If the name of the game was the result of a bug and had anything to do with gameplay, yeah.

(feeding a troll)

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 6 Oct 2010, 10:24

Kazeta really doesn't get it o,o

For twipley (my interpretation from ribots post) :
When you press left or right, the code first counts force to a rotation. Hence if you press left and right simultaneously, you get double force. Then the code checks whether a pressed key was left or right. Because you pressed both buttons at the same time, the first if-statement is always true and that's why the alo is as it is. The if-statements could also be in different order and it wouldn't change a thing except alo would be counter-clockwise then. It really isn't the same thing than questioning why the game isn't called Maniac Elasto o,o

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 6 Oct 2010, 11:40

that doesnt explain the delay does it, or am i being more retarded than usually =D

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 6 Oct 2010, 20:10

ofc takes more time to process when it's two commands instead of one!

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 6 Oct 2010, 20:29

i haven't analyzed volts in the detail (yet) but it is something like:
a constant rotation speed is gained at the beginning during first part of the volt, other much weaker "rotation acceleration" is gained during whole volt and depends also on current rotation

first part in alo is 0, those constants from both volts sum up to zero, thats why the alovolt start is slower
the acceleration part makes it non-symetric because 2nd volt already depends on the gain from previous one and the effect is then doubled, that's why alo is stronger

you can see that non symmetric effect for example in bumpy, where if you first volt left and then right (not alo), it does not make your rotation 0
i tried to swap tests for left and right volts and it made alovolt other direction and hands shaking were opposite

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 6 Oct 2010, 20:49

milagros wrote:i tried to swap tests for left and right volts and it made alovolt other direction

hmm ez some wrs by mila in next table xd

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 6 Oct 2010, 21:27

tried it 7,5 years ago and yes did some nice 14.20 flattrack and spread it as next wr style.. ppl laughed and next week zsolt made wr:)

Kazeta · Post by **Kazeta** » 6 Oct 2010, 22:38

this ppl think and think im a retard

NoZKeY · Post by **NoZKeY** » 7 Oct 2010, 06:21

ribot wrote:mila has explained both of these bugs, however you know how he talks right? doesnt explain it very well.

Well.. now this is perfectly understandable:

milagros wrote:i haven't analyzed volts in the detail (yet) but it is something like:
a constant rotation speed is gained at the beginning during first part of the volt, other much weaker "rotation acceleration" is gained during whole volt and depends also on current rotation

first part in alo is 0, those constants from both volts sum up to zero, thats why the alovolt start is slower
the acceleration part makes it non-symetric because 2nd volt already depends on the gain from previous one and the effect is then doubled, that's why alo is stronger

you can see that non symmetric effect for example in bumpy, where if you first volt left and then right (not alo), it does not make your rotation 0
i tried to swap tests for left and right volts and it made alovolt other direction and hands shaking were opposite

so, that 'rotation acceleration' is just a variable which doesn't specify direction... and if both constants sum up to zero i guess that 'rotation' variable include direction in sign...

am i right? when you say 'it depends on current rotation', do you mean it just 'adds' a value to the current 'rotation' without altering sign... or does it use another variable (the weaker rotation acceleration) aside from 'rotation'?

i hope you will understand what i try to say..

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 13 Oct 2010, 11:22

I have a question and not wana mayke new tropic:

What shape is elma mans head? I once tried to trace it but it became very boring very fast. I would like to know the exact mathematical shape. Something like this:

So how does it count the head???

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 13 Oct 2010, 14:27

head is perfectly circular the code says:)

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 13 Oct 2010, 14:29

(Not to scale.)

jblaze · Post by **jblaze** » 13 Oct 2010, 15:18

why kuskis head behaves like in rec when pressing turn very near polygon?
why does it depend on where is head turned?

http://up.k10x.net/logzrldpanqcw/xxx.lev
http://up.k10x.net/exijupuamsjzs/xxx1j.rec
http://up.k10x.net/dqtchcvpjbvkp/xxx2j.rec

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 13 Oct 2010, 15:23

no matter what animation is, the head as either turned one way or another
it is a bit in front, so if you turn, it get further back and it gets there immediately, not as it looks to be due to animation

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 13 Oct 2010, 17:56

What? It can't be perfectly circular o,o My ultimate tracing told so. Also when watching recs in Smibu's replay manager I see situations where the circle goes through polygons.

NoZKeY · Post by **NoZKeY** » 13 Oct 2010, 20:51

Ville_J you made an epic question

DDDD:D:D:D:DDD
Here my try:

Oh i forgot this: L // L'

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » 13 Oct 2010, 21:22

my interpretation:

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 13 Oct 2010, 21:32

my interpretation:

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 13 Oct 2010, 21:41

i framed my solve

John · Post by **John** » 13 Oct 2010, 21:54

The Pollock explanation:

Lousku · Post by **Lousku** » 13 Oct 2010, 22:16

Also some offtopic mathemagics in my solution. I hope it helps.

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 13 Oct 2010, 22:47

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 13 Oct 2010, 23:02

igge founded brake lauta function

NoZKeY · Post by **NoZKeY** » 13 Oct 2010, 23:03

Ban igge

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 13 Oct 2010, 23:53

my confession is in the middle of break

ville_j · Post by **ville_j** » 14 Oct 2010, 07:33

Ahhahaha gotta love topics where people start drawing stuff! Maby we can now consider this myth to be busted!