nations cup(?)

kuiva · Post by **kuiva** » 12 Dec 2002, 14:52

i had this nice idea that i thought should be written down..

and the idea is: nations cup.

cup where 5(or more) players from one country would compete against other countries. first there could be a qualification round where players would play against players from their own country..and 5 best players would gather a team and would go on to fight other countries.

maybe in countries where there r lots of players like finland,sweden,norway or denmark there could be more than one team. for example denmark-1 and denmark-2..in the first team there would be the 5 best players from qualification round and in the second team there could be the players who positioned 6-10 in qualification.

maybe it would work best so that in the tournament one country would play against other country and the winner would continue to next round...until there would be only one country left.

i wouldn't arrange this myself though...maybe moposite or guyb or somebody else?

and it could be in next summer or so...not too soon anyway...any thoughts or ideas about this?

naoman · Post by **naoman** » 12 Dec 2002, 15:06

Great idea though some countries will not be able to collect 5 players that will play in it and ofcourse the winner country will be Fin or Nor, not much chance to any other country.

Jonas · Post by **Jonas** » 12 Dec 2002, 15:34

What about Russia?...and Sweden of course =)

Post by **SveinR** » 12 Dec 2002, 15:39

naoman wrote:Great idea though some countries will not be able to collect 5 players that will play in it and ofcourse the winner country will be Fin or Nor, not much chance to any other country.

I think that there could be one "other" country, that consists of the five best players in a round that were played between people of those countries that doesn't have that many players.

...this may have sounded very difficult, but the thought isn't

insane guy · Post by **insane guy** » 12 Dec 2002, 16:01

i dnt understand
im glad nobody knows where im from andthis country wontparticipate eithre

Alexey · Post by **Alexey** » 12 Dec 2002, 16:05

I didn't understand. Country wins if it has the best time, or it'll be some point for first 5(or 3) places? If it is just first place, then Russia'll win

chux · Post by **chux** » 12 Dec 2002, 16:37

I like the idea, theres only 8 people in GB according to the moposite list, top 5 are: MJXII, (Mozzy's been taken off!), JameS, Nathanaelb, me (weeee!) and Chris. Sounds like a good 'underdog' team to me

MagnusB · Post by **MagnusB** » 12 Dec 2002, 16:38

Sounds like the kind of team that also 'stays down'. No offence. :D

chux · Post by **chux** » 12 Dec 2002, 16:40

lol, well yeah, Im not saying we'll win, but we can try! C'mon guys, lets kick some Scandinavian ass!

kuiva · Post by **kuiva** » 12 Dec 2002, 16:52

alexey, yes i was thinking that only the best time of the team would matter.

Xhomaz · Post by **Xhomaz** » 12 Dec 2002, 16:53

Good idea this nations cup! Guess I will have to change nationality and become latvian or something to get the chance to participate

GuyB · Post by **GuyB** » 12 Dec 2002, 17:19

I really like the idea, but to manage this event will require alot of work .

.. I am willing to do it, but it will some time before I can do it .. First the wcup has to be over, and after that I am hosting the dk-cup a bit later ..

After that I am able to do it ... ( providing people show enough interest of course )
I spoke with kuiva and he thought about this summer .. which I find a good time .. any thoughts on that ??

GuyB[rdk]

Xhomaz · Post by **Xhomaz** » 12 Dec 2002, 17:41

I like the summer yes

Post by **Abula** » 12 Dec 2002, 17:48

kuiva wrote:alexey, yes i was thinking that only the best time of the team would matter.

Maybe avarage of top4 players, that's more a team contest then (not top5 because one player can get sick, be travelling or something). Because in the case only the best time matters the events go like in WCup in FM now: Tisk finds styles, Karlis hoyls victories (roughly). Or maybe it's fine?

I like the idea but maybe in qualification round some finnish semi-n00b team finds some cool style and the team takes top5 of finnish qualification. Because we need players who can do well everytime. Ok, that problem is here always, cannot be solved well.

petsen · Post by **petsen** » 12 Dec 2002, 18:05

hmm how should it work, of the 5 players in a team only the best time goes on.... then maily mambo and raider will win fore denmark i think, maybe rigger too, but surely not me...

Xhomaz · Post by **Xhomaz** » 12 Dec 2002, 18:06

Average top-4 seem to be a very good solution. In that way, the teams will have to co-operate more, and we won't have the same winner from one country every time

If only best country time should win: Winner will be Russia

If average top-4 : Winner will be Finland (most likely)

Jonas · Post by **Jonas** » 12 Dec 2002, 18:59

yeah xhomas is right....If there is a average-top4 Finland will win...NO other cuntry stands a chance...Norway could have if Nostrada and zyntifox were cheaters....but now that they are itÂ´s impossible for any country to beat Finland....

kuiva · Post by **kuiva** » 12 Dec 2002, 19:29

i don't like the average-time idea.

because:

1. it could lead to cheating. one member would drive more than just his own time.

2. if there would be an average time, then for sure the winner would be some scandinavian country..but if only the best time then more countries would have chances.

..and if someone from country-team makes the best time then the whole team would get the fame.of course..some doods r good in long levs and some in short ones.

GuyB · Post by **GuyB** » 12 Dec 2002, 19:33

To make sure it really are the best people representing their country I thought of this .. take five levels and people get a certain amount of time to ride them .. The 4 or 5 best ttÂ´s for the levels qualify for representing the country ...

what do you think about that way of determining the people representing a country ?

GuyB[rdk]

kuiva · Post by **kuiva** » 12 Dec 2002, 19:44

guyb...maybe yea...but thats a bit "big"....i mean it's only the qualification round =)...

and if it would be done so that some countries could have many teams, 2 or 3...then in that way i think that all the good players would get in.

Post by **Abula** » 12 Dec 2002, 20:33

GuyB: if you take five different levels' total time you must multiple some short level times to get it fair. If not only long level experts would rule in total time.

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » 12 Dec 2002, 20:49

I like the idea...
Anyway, if it will occur sometimr, it will be after this WCup...

Hey, I will be on the top 5 of my country! nice!

Antz · Post by **Antz** » 12 Dec 2002, 21:17

yep i think the biggest prob is that ppl inside a team would drive for other teamers.. second biggest is that i don't think i'll make it to the cup =). why oh why

chux · Post by **chux** » 12 Dec 2002, 22:53

well how about one for experts and one for n00bs...?

GuyB · Post by **GuyB** » 12 Dec 2002, 23:30

and if it would be done so that some countries could have many teams, 2 or 3...then in that way i think that all the good players would get in.

I can see the point of doing so, and especially countries like finland would find good use for it ..
It could be done so that every country had 2 ( provinding thay had enough players ) teams .. One team consisting of the 4 best in the tt-prelliminary contest, and one team consisting of the ones placed 5-6-7-8 ..
.. .. .. .. Whether or not this will be done I donÂ´t know .. .. ..
The original concept was a team from each country, so plz share your opinions on this idea

well how about one for experts and one for n00bs...?

Hmm.. I think it will give me way to much work .. .. sorry

yep i think the biggest prob is that ppl inside a team would drive for other teamers

I donÂ´t think it is possible to do anything about that .. For the life of me I canÂ´t emagine how it could be avoided.. I guess its just a question of attitude .. and hopefully people wonÂ´t do it

GuyB: if you take five different levels' total time you must multiple some short level times to get it fair. If not only long level experts would rule in total time.

It will of course consist of different types of levels.. to even the playingfield .... Almost all kuskit are best at one style of level .. long, short, tricky, ect .. the few preliminary levels will consist of very different types ... When the times gets nearer I will advertise for levels here and elsewhere. I wonÂ´t make the levels myself.. since I suck
at making levels

kuiva · Post by **kuiva** » 13 Dec 2002, 01:17

the cheat that one player would drive rides to teammates can be avoided easily: no average times!!! =)

and don't u think that the 'manylevs-totaltime' qualification round would be too big and time/effort takin for both players and organizators...because if there r many teams per country almost everyone would get through the qualification anyway...

but if it still is a totaltime-qualification then wouldn't 2 tracks be enough?

in my opinion the best kind of qualification would be only one level for a week...wcup-style...different level for all countries.

onlainari · Post by **onlainari** » 13 Dec 2002, 01:36

yeh..finland-1 finland-2 finland-3 can match up with every counry...maybe even fourth team from finland. Every country could have many teams to get everyone who interested.. Then if there were like 12 teams or 8 teams... a league or a group tournament to not get knocked-out after first match. Maybe a swiss-system if anyone knows it..it's like a cup but u get another chance.

Then other option that I almost prefer is a tough cup that any country has only 1 team and everyone in that country can participate.. Someone from that country is a captain of the team and gatheres everyone's recs and then sends the best replay. Then maybe a channel for finnish elma players that is invited only for finns and that way they could know what is current best time for team finland. Maybe in topic there could be a rec for the current best time that every finnish player can download and try to hoyl it better to improve the finnish time.

Or then a same thing as above except that everyone from that country can't participate and it's only for 5 or 10 best players in that country.

I kind of like the 2nd one best,but there is a problem...other finnish people might for example not like me to get access to best replay,when i'm in a same team as abula and some others I have argued with,they might think that I could work for norwegians or swedes or whatever. So then the third one would be better. But when it's about Nations I wouldn't do it. And if there was like a price...that all the finnish players that have had a best time on some level and have participated could get a diploma if finland wins..

And I prefer the one-best replay not any average, Kuiva's propositions..

bob · Post by **bob** » 13 Dec 2002, 03:31

AUS: Mick0r, McLEod (me), m0nkeii, stevo and EnTiTy
wood kill it...

Post by **Abula** » 13 Dec 2002, 06:15

onla: What was that Abula part? Like I would behave in that way just because we have had some tiny debate here? If there will be such a contest and rules are those, of course I would share the replay for you too, if it even was up to me.

m0nkeii · Post by **m0nkeii** » 13 Dec 2002, 11:23

i don't like the idea of 'only the best time counts'
this sort of screws up the idea of having teams.
for eg.
australian team
mick0r, one of the best players in the world
along with mcleod, me, entity and steve (all with tt over 46) maybe we forgot asamakl
just wouldnt be fair if only mick's times were counted and we were all relying on him
same with russia and dmd

average for top 3 would be best
and we can't avoid the cheat for one player making recs for whole team
this could (not saying it does) happen in world cup. there is nobody stopping it. we should have an average, cheating is inevitable, we can't help if someone likes false pleasure

kuiva · Post by **kuiva** » 13 Dec 2002, 13:20

omg monkeii! =)

i mean really...when there is a good way to prevent cheating then why shouldn't it be done!?...just no average times...

of course the whole team would get the credit for the victories even if one of the players would make all the best times...figuring out styles is more important then hÃ¶ylin the drive...i'm sure the rest of the team can help (for example) mickor and dmd out.

and of course teams that would have 4-5 players would play very tight teamplay...at least in irc it's very easy to create an own channel and discuss about styles and drives there...and when it's about nations i think that ppl will really want to do well. =)

onla, could u tell about that swiss-system? sounds intresting.

onlainari · Post by **onlainari** » 13 Dec 2002, 15:00

I dunno abu sorry bout it.. but anyway you think that would be even good idea to have anyone from that country in same team? I just can't wait this nations cup starts ..it sounds cool

http://tourneys.igl.net/tourneysystem/h ... eelim.html

swiss system is more complicated.,but this system could be a good option. ..Double Elimination.

[edited]

chux · Post by **chux** » 13 Dec 2002, 16:45

that sounds quite good, but it'd require a lot of updating

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » 13 Dec 2002, 20:04

OK! if this cup will occur... we need to make an Israeli team...
if we choose it by tt, it would be :
Ikop, Xupacabra, Naoman (ManaMan), Z-oren (me) and another player... guess it would be RoniMox or CrAcKeR-PoLy if he still plays... and MosH_MaN is invited too...

A preety nice team...
Any objections from any Israelis?

naoman · Post by **naoman** » 13 Dec 2002, 21:18

I would like to be in an Israeli team, it would be awesome, though Israel stand no real chance.
Whoever gets to make this contest should really get the new anti-cheat programs to prevent cheating (as much as possible).

MagnusB · Post by **MagnusB** » 13 Dec 2002, 22:30

Omg, MosH_MaN!

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » 13 Dec 2002, 23:04

I talked to MosH_MaN but he stopped playing... guess we need RoniMox in our team or maybe we'll have to go to our last chance...UE...no,I don't think so!

MopoGirl · Post by **MopoGirl** » 14 Dec 2002, 11:00

tut tut oren, i told like MONTHS ago that mosh man is an ass

btw my tt is now 57:56:83
just haven't sent to moposit yet

edit: 56:56.xx now

Karlis · Post by **Karlis** » 14 Dec 2002, 11:13

the team cup system was ok, maybe we could use that....

dz · Post by dz » 14 Dec 2002, 15:50

...says someone from the best team in the "scene"

i think we should really look for another interesting options, i like the idea of nations cup, though i don't like the idea picking up certain players (eventhough there are qualifications)
there can surely be a way where everyone can take part, it just requires careful thinking and preparations

GuyB · Post by **GuyB** » 15 Dec 2002, 18:47

A nations cup
...
1) Some think that there should be a national team for each country.
2) Some think that there should be more teams for each country.
3) Some think that everyone should be allowed to play..

here is how I see the different ways :

1)This method will require some sort of contest or way to select the players that are allowed to be in the team representing the country..
it could be done the following ways :

Simply select the players with the best tt in the country
( bad way, maybe they arenÂ´t willing/able to participate )

A contest where people are driving a few levels in a given timeperiod and the ones with the best tt proceed to represent the team
( here teams can help eachother 8( , but all in all a pretty fair way )

All people in one country can sign up, and a poll determines who is to be the captain .. he then selects the teammembers he wish to have from the list of people signed up..
( providing the poll isnÂ´t tampered with this method is ok... As far as I can see )

---- Insert other ways here ----

All in all this way can give some involvement in the preliminary fase for the entire community in one nation .. When the real contest begins, however, only the team is involved.. all others are spectators..
I think that most people would like to be involved in this contest, rather than be spectators...Its alwsays more fun to participate, than spectate

I can emagine myself, however, waiting for the results of a given round.. and looking forward to seeing how the "national team" had done

Also, it would be the elite only who competed, and that is always fun to see

2 ) More teams would make it possible for more people to be involved, but again, some people ( at least in some countries ) could/would be left out ... All in all my view is like on the single team version ... only now more are involved and therefore the playing isnÂ´t done only by the elite

Here comes now the problem of selecting which team people should belong to..
You could simply choose for yourself, ei, let people make the teams for themselves.... ( an ok way, but some people might feel unwanted due to lower skill levels than others, and that isnÂ´t a nice feeling )

people who were willing to participate could sign up, and the team could be chosen randomly, sort of like a lottery ( bad way, if a nations cup will be I would want the team/s from my country to be as good as possible )

In the rules for the event a fixed number of teams could be set, and people could compete in a try/out contest.. the ones with the best result/tt in the contest were in the A-team, next ones were in the B team, and so on and so forth ... ( again, teammembers could help eachother and that makes it less down to the individuals skill level if they are to participate ) .... All in all I find this way the best for selection

3)If everyone are allowed to play then the level of participation is high all the way through the tournament, since everyone who wishes to represent their country are able and allowed to...
The individual kuskit in a country would then help eachother with styles .. ei, some find the styles, and some hÃ¶yl them .. chatrooms for the countries could be made and everyone could be as involved as they wish to be ( this is properly the most user-oriented way of doing the contest and properly the one I like the most ... )

When all this is said and done, we also need to find out how the event should be ... I would be stupid ( imo ) to have 1 on 1, and the winner proceeds...( We are not that many countries, so the tournament would be over very quickly )

The countries could ( by lottery ) devided into two groups and then they all played eachother .. one wictory over another country would give 2 points.. draw = 1 point .. and if you lost = 0 points ... Then the 2 best from each group could play the 1 on 1 battles to find a winner ...

other ways are also possible .. this was just a quick idea ..

everyone, plz share your opinion about how you would like to see the event ..

kuiva · Post by **kuiva** » 15 Dec 2002, 19:02

hmm...well maybe i'm warmin up to the teams 'average time' -idea...but there r few bad problems in it..

firstly i would like to know that do the world class players have motivation to hÃ¶yl hard if they r the only good players in that country/team...

and secondly how could the cheatin be prevented...i mean think about a situation where 4 players out of 5 have good times but one kuski would have totally sucky time...cheatin might feel tempting at that point...

maybe some kinda 'captains' should be picked out from every team and they would have to swear and guarantee that his team wouldn't cheat..?

chux · Post by **chux** » 15 Dec 2002, 20:46

GuyB wrote:the ones with the best result/tt in the contest were in the A-team

yey, I wanna be in the A-Team...crazy foo'

Jalli · Post by **Jalli** » 15 Dec 2002, 21:36

I feel that to choose by tt wouldn't be fair to all players. There are many players that don't play internals very much. Atm I have the 20th best tt in Norway and still I am the best Norwegian in WC4, so tt isn't everything...

skint0r · Post by **skint0r** » 15 Dec 2002, 22:43

if the bracket type tournament is chosen, maybe this kind of script could be of help to make updating easier http://www.planetquake3.net/neur0soft/? ... p/features

there's probably more and/or better scripts like that around too

bob · Post by **bob** » 16 Dec 2002, 00:27

even tho i dont like this way, i would still think it was fair for everyone:
Everyone plays and whoever wins gets points for their nation, people could still help their nation people too

bad thing bout this wood be that finland and shit like that would overrule too badly...and russia, coz dmd could just own...

blah

Post by **Abula** » 16 Dec 2002, 02:16

kuiva wrote:maybe some kinda 'captains' should be picked out from every team and they would have to swear and guarantee that his team wouldn't cheat..?

And the whole team would be put to some 'not trustable people' list :].

KD · Post by KD » 19 Dec 2002, 15:02

Nations Cup is a great idea, we had some argues about it a year ago on the hungarian elma page.
I have some ideas.
First of all, team of nations is senseless, because:
Everybody could download the levels, and ride better times (if he can) than the team members, and then give the recs to them. So i prefer to play the whole nation agains the other nations.
How could it be possible to decrease alone-hyper-hÃ¶ylas chances?
An idea from me (maybe it was mentioned before, then sorry):
There should be 3 or 5 levels in a week, and every nation should organize their own rec trade and other thingz, like who plays which lev, etc... and then send in the best recs of the levs to Abu, or the man who makes this cup.
About the point-system:
There would be total times every week from the 3 (or 5) levs, and the nation who has the best total time, would get eg 100 points, the second one 90, etc. I think It's important that every nations should get points. There would be about 10 of them i think, so 100, 90, 80,...,10 would be good. Besides this, the bests of the single levels would get points too, but not as much as the total, like the first would get 20 points, etc...
I think this idea could work, the only problem with this is that many-many levs needed, 30 (or 50) levels for 10 rounds. Btw these levs could be short ones.
I'm waiting for replys about this idea. It would be cool to organize this nations cup thingy.

Kopaka · Post by **Kopaka** » 19 Dec 2002, 18:38

KD: You have some very good ideas there, it can't be maked better I think...

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » 19 Dec 2002, 21:05

Yea...this is the only way to do a cup like this...

nations cup(?)

nations cup(?)

I like the idea

how to pick the kuskit representing the country

elmarebelz opinions and suggeztz

Israeli Team

my opinion

Re: my opinion