Golden Apple Awards 2012

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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Kortsu »

Nice setup, I only have peanuts.
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by pawq »

damn timezones, thought it was going to be later than 18, missed again >:(((((((((
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by roope »

Still going o,o
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Tigro »

darn i missed that DAMN sick damn
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Igge »

It's so sad that so few of the winners are present these days. What if the winners were informed before-hand and could write a speech which would be sent to the jury before the GAAla is held. I love the idea behind the GAA, but seeing it like this doesn't do it justice...
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by abruzzi »

where exact stats concerning the votes amounts?
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Igge »

will probably be published later tonight or tomorrow)
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by A.K.B. »

You all live in stupid timezones, come to this side of the world. Thanks!
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Labs »

abruzzi wrote:where exact stats concerning the votes amounts?
Will be not published :(
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Igge »

How come? they've always been published before?
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Grace »

Labs wrote:
abruzzi wrote:where exact stats concerning the votes amounts?
Will be not published :(
At least - it might be prudent to give more than 14 hours to do it. Compiling these stats is not an instant thing.
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Kortsu »

Since 2010 the amounts have not been published.
SveinR GAA 2010 wrote:Because there has been some negative reactions towards that..
Better to not reveal them, and instead show the true top 5 based on community+jury votes.
Also it might be less fun for the winner to see that you weren't #1 from the community, and vice versa.
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by niN »

Oh damn, I see I was in top five in one. Sorry, I am offline on a skiing trip atm. No internet access. Did I win?
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by roope »

Nah, cp080ff won :p
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by snajdig »

would be nice to share the results, wouldn't be?
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by SveinR »

Quick list of winners here: http://kopasite.net/up/hmehptx0knss733/ ... inners.txt

More detailed results post coming.
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Grace »

07. WR - 50. Expert System: 49,67 Zweq #356
08. Style - Zweq's Expert System
09. Internal Replay - 50. Expert System: 49,67 Zweq
10. External Replay - ib9814.lev: 21,88 Zweq

Must have been some sense of dejavu in the chat here.
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by pawq »

Lesson pt. Zweq - how to take 3 GAA's with one run :D
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by snajdig »

why there is no best rec in battle category?
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Grace »

snajdig wrote:why there is no best rec in battle category?
External Replay.
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Kopaka »

Well for best kuski there is internal, external and battle, in replay only two of them. Of course battle replays go under external replays and given that a battle replay actually won it's hard to complain about that lack ;)
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Chris »

Haruhi wrote:
snajdig wrote:why there is no best rec in battle category?
External Replay.
This isn't the same.
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by snajdig »

For me external and battle levs are not the same. The difference between them in my mind that external levels are the 'official level packs' and battle levs those ones started in EOL. In summary there should have been a unique category for best battle rec, lev. [If I remeber well, (orka to check) there was at the previous GAA]
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Lousku »

snajdig wrote:For me external and battle levs are not the same. The difference between them in my mind that external levels are the 'official level packs' and battle levs those ones started in EOL. In summary there should have been a unique category for best battle rec, lev. [If I remeber well, (orka to check) there was at the previous GAA]
No there wasn't. You had a chance to suggest it here.
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Igge »

There was a lot of nice ideas in that topic you just linked to, including battle level, battle replay etc. I wonder if these ideas were considered by the jury? Seeing as the scene and game itself have evolved a lot these past 10 years worth of GAAs, perhaps we should do a complete overhaul of the categories, and really everything GAA-related (the categories, the jury, the GAAla, dates? time?, everything really). I think we could really improve the Golden Apple Awards as a whole, and make it more fresh and intriguing. Might be worth a new topic.
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by SveinR »

Igge wrote:There was a lot of nice ideas in that topic you just linked to, including battle level, battle replay etc. I wonder if these ideas were considered by the jury?
They were, but for a number of reasons the ideas were rejected this time. Note that the Internal/External Replay split was added, however. I don't see how a separate Battle Replay is needed in this day and age where there are not that many cups and levelpacks. Half the nominated replays were from battle levels.
Igge wrote:Seeing as the scene and game itself have evolved a lot these past 10 years worth of GAAs, perhaps we should do a complete overhaul of the categories, and really everything GAA-related (the categories, the jury, the GAAla, dates? time?, everything really). I think we could really improve the Golden Apple Awards as a whole, and make it more fresh and intriguing. Might be worth a new topic.
This is a fair point and I would welcome the discussion! However there is something to be said for tradition, at least in the case of categories.
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Kopaka »

As SveinR mentioned we discussed adding new replay and level categories. But it largely comes down to what actually happens in the scene. Multi WR as its own category was removed some years ago because there were simply too few, we discussed removing team this year because team acitvity seems very low nowadays etc. Making internal, battle and external replay or level categories doesn't make a lot of sense at the moment with the low amount of levelpacks and cups we have. And having internal and battle only would make it impossible for the few we does have of external. And a battle rec actually won this year over cup replays.

So a lot comes down the activity of the community, same thing with voting system. It was discussed to give community full power and we did that if there is over 30 voters in a category but that was not the case in any this year.

It would be nice to spice up the gala though.
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by umiz »

Well, well I'll spice up my levels during 2013, so I can feel the glorious taste of beeing GAA-winner one time before i die.
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Bludek »

I like your levels a lot, you just do not produce enough of them compared to other designers ;)
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Grace »

In the first GAA jury meeting for 2012 we discussed the splitting of level/replay at some length. Our conclusions were (pretty unanimously) based on the following points:

1. The expansion of the categories to allow for greater competition in "less important" forms of play was important. We wanted to find a way to recognise battles and battle levels as an equal art to cup levels, internal levels et cetera.

1.5. If we expand the categories, it may increase the desire to create levels in the styles of the new categories - resulting in more levelpacks and importantly, more contests (Contests is perhaps the most under-represented category.)

2. Level and Replay have - historically - been two of the categories with the least amount of community representation. Specifically - level for the past 3 years has had the least amount of votes and submissions from the community of any category. We needed to keep in mind that if we split these categories too vigorously, we may find that the community submissions become too thin and we struggle to separate 10 serious contenders from the mass of levels or replays.

3. The suggested potential splits:
- Internal (for replay only)
- External
- Battle
- Cup
- Pack

4a. LEVEL - Based on point two - we considered splitting the level categories into battle/cup pack, or into battle/external or some form of other split. The general consensus was that in 2012, there was only about 15 Cup levels anyway, there was about 2-3 packs released and the rest would be battles. If you take into account a pack category, you have some Jeppe levels, some BlaZtek levels (and maybe some more that i don't care to look for for this post) and that's ALL of them - there just isn't the competition. The same goes for pack. Sure the cups this year had guest designers, but the competition isn't fierce enough to consider doing it. Based on this, we decided to leave level unsplit for 2012 and to revisit in 2013.

4b. REPLAY - Again based on point two, we considered replay slightly more kindly. In the past 95% of the replays for GAA have been internal replays (new styles, wr recs etc.) - which left NO representation to the external scene. It was decided pretty quickly to split internal and external replays into separate categories. As far as external goes, we considered the same points as in 4a - deciding that there isn't enough replays to consider a further split and to revisit.

5. The important thing is that these decisions will be revisited next year by the jury.

I'll maybe post a little more later, but i just want you to know that we DID deliberate at length about these things and i truly believe we made the correct decisions.
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Igge »

Thanks for your response. It's nice to know that the categories are still undergoing such scrutinizing.

Speaking from my own experience I know level is the only category where I've never voted, and this is not because I don't care about it, but rather because I care too much. I've always felt that just giving the voter a pack of all levels just like that to base his votes upon doesn't really do them justice. There's no way I can download 10 levels and immediately see which one deserves to win. To make a just decision I would at least have to get an accompanying replay pack with all best styles and times for each level in order to see which one deserves to win the most.

But then you're stuck with another problem, and that is that most people would not bother to go through all that trouble of watching some ten, twenty or even thirty recs just to vote on the levels. I have a solution to this, which I think might be beneficial not only for the level category, but for all, but I have to think about it some more)

Anyway, it's nice to see this discussion, and I like where it's heading. I think we should try to improve the GAAs (and really, the scene in general), while at the same time trying to keep it as traditional as possible. I'm looking forward to the end of this year already. 8)
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Grace »

Igge wrote:Thanks for your response. It's nice to know that the categories are still undergoing such scrutinizing.

Speaking from my own experience I know level is the only category where I've never voted, and this is not because I don't care about it, but rather because I care too much. I've always felt that just giving the voter a pack of all levels just like that to base his votes upon doesn't really do them justice. There's no way I can download 10 levels and immediately see which one deserves to win. To make a just decision I would at least have to get an accompanying replay pack with all best styles and times for each level in order to see which one deserves to win the most.

But then you're stuck with another problem, and that is that most people would not bother to go through all that trouble of watching some ten, twenty or even thirty recs just to vote on the levels. I have a solution to this, which I think might be beneficial not only for the level category, but for all, but I have to think about it some more)

Anyway, it's nice to see this discussion, and I like where it's heading. I think we should try to improve the GAAs (and really, the scene in general), while at the same time trying to keep it as traditional as possible. I'm looking forward to the end of this year already. 8)
Okay time for some more:

I'm all for rejigging the GAA system - some of it is slightly outdated and needs work for sure. In particular - this year, the GAA Jury was assembled later, deadlines were missed and the GAA show was very far into 2013 because perhaps too much work has to be done by the jury and more importantly SveinR. Svein even abstained from being a jury member this year and still his workload for the GAA show was massive.

The point is - how do we improve it? The thread that sat in this forum all of 2012 for community suggestions was a great idea and actually helped the jury an incredible amount, so i feel that setting that up again for 2013 is probably a wise idea. However, i think it would be prudent to spend a month or two collecting community ideas for other ways to improve the GAA system.

I feel that there are a few things that could easily improve it:

1. Awareness - Currently the only people getting regular notifications about GAA are the people who frequent lauta - we have a chance now to maybe integrate it into the programmed fabric of the game with the Elma 2 project, perhaps we should look into working with Smibu/ropelli etc to try and achieve that. I feel that if you could nominate a person/level/replay in game and conduct the actual GAA process (the 5 steps) in-game, we would have a FAR larger participation than we currently have.

2. Community participation (5 steps.) - There was some other discussion about minimising the involvement of the jury in determining the winner. SveinR devised a system where if a certain number of community voters was reached for a category, the jury would not take part (or take a lesser part) in the decision for that category. Obviously, the best system is where the entire the only contribution that the jury has on the outcome is determining the top10 - and that's not really down to subjectiveness but rather a wise thing to be done by the jury due to having good amounts of information, good understanding of the nominees and categories etc.

3. Complete restart of the categories / deliberated changes. - The GAA jury is hyper aware of trying to maintain a set of relevant categories and strives to keep them that way, however we are a bit too reserved about changing them too much, lest we affect competition. That has resulted in categories that are still relevant - but not optimal. For instance, there is always discussion about the Rookie category. It works for what it's designed to do, but it's not perfect, it could be improved. As SveinR said as well, some things could be said for tradition. What happens in 3 years time when people have forgotten a Multi-WR GAA existed at all?

I'm open for suggestions and may start a thread discussing this stuff in more detail to see if we can find any improvements.
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

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Elma 2 project?
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Tigro »

still no moposite updatinga.
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by A.K.B. »

That huge wall of text is like a big shit on a toilet wall. Very annoying to scroll past.
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by Bludek »

is there a .txt of whole #gaa chat? thx in advance
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Re: Golden Apple Awards 2012

Post by abruzzi »

SveinR wrote: 25 Feb 2013, 23:28 Quick list of winners here: http://kopasite.net/up/hmehptx0knss733/ ... inners.txt

More detailed results post coming.

Hello are there anywhere archives of detailed results of GAA 2012?
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