Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

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Ramone
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Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Ramone » 5 Apr 2013, 19:11

Ok. I wont add new battles until TL gets unbanned (or someone can post a valid reason for ban that I can understand. current posted reasons all too vague) and I want as many as possible to join me. We currently have no one adding as good battles as TL and he still hangs there alot and staying true to the scene by adding tons of quality levels, why should scene give up on him?
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Lakimies » 5 Apr 2013, 19:12

dont be grazy man.

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by snajdig » 5 Apr 2013, 19:26

I join
Lousku: Snajdig, forgive all my subtle and not so subtle hostility towards you in the past. I can't go on harassing anyone who produces sach sweet wisdom.

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Ramone » 5 Apr 2013, 19:33

Awesome!
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by ville_j » 5 Apr 2013, 19:34

There's so many poorly chosen words in that post. TL was far from the best.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by anpdad » 5 Apr 2013, 19:34

i was about to say i'm not going to start any battles as well, but then i realized that would just make everyone happier :(

i join because snajdig is awesome

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Madness » 5 Apr 2013, 20:28

I join too. No more fumads from me!
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by snajdig » 5 Apr 2013, 20:40

need more ppl to join, let's help for TL
Lousku: Snajdig, forgive all my subtle and not so subtle hostility towards you in the past. I can't go on harassing anyone who produces sach sweet wisdom.

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Chris » 5 Apr 2013, 20:41

I will start more levels if TL not unbanned! :wink:
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by analcactus » 5 Apr 2013, 21:30

i'm not joining
though, i haven't added battles for a while now :C
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by jonsykkel » 5 Apr 2013, 21:45

im join, say gudbye to the critically acclaimed lev10 pack
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Thundr- » 6 Apr 2013, 02:18

This the reason for bane incase someone missed it from the other thread:

Kopaka: "First few bans were for talking finnish, and the 1 year ban was a personal attack of sorts, for which the opposing player also got a chat ban btw."

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by dz » 6 Apr 2013, 06:39

I support. Let him speak once more, for all the battles he provides every day to support our online scene.

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by umiz » 6 Apr 2013, 06:47

I was about to start a lev. Is TL unbanned yet? Ofcourse unban TL. :beer:
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by ville_j » 6 Apr 2013, 08:28

The reason for the ban sounds reasonable, why are some people trying to manipulate and blackmail other people to get this justified ban reversed?
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by snajdig » 6 Apr 2013, 09:07

If I know well the reason of his current ban is that he was negative for months maybe for years. ( Some weeks he uploaded a photo I saw it ) The decision that made by one of the banners was out of the rules, because being negative is not reason for get banned.
Lousku: Snajdig, forgive all my subtle and not so subtle hostility towards you in the past. I can't go on harassing anyone who produces sach sweet wisdom.

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by ville_j » 6 Apr 2013, 09:18

I was referring to this:
Thundr- wrote:This the reason for bane incase someone missed it from the other thread:

Kopaka: "First few bans were for talking finnish, and the 1 year ban was a personal attack of sorts, for which the opposing player also got a chat ban btw."
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Igge » 6 Apr 2013, 09:33

I said this yesterday in EOL, but I figured I'd repeat it here as well.

I don't see how this solves the problem. By not making battles because of this we're only punishing ourselves. There's a high chance whoever banned TL isn't even playing EOL himself, so it solves nothing and just makes things worse for those who are already suffering from this ban.

Don't get me wrong, it's a kind gesture and I'm sure TL appreciates it, but I don't think it's the right way to go about solving this problem.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Ramone » 6 Apr 2013, 09:50

ok. first off, players like Luther and Thundr speak swedish in the chat EVERY day. I rage with caps and swearwords every day, why havent this resulted in a ban? If it was TL you would say that behaviour deserves a ban. If the ops like a guy or not shot not affect the decisions. By not realizing Kopaka has wrong, by not being able to change his decision where we still heard no logic to why TL is banned Kopaka only shows misuse of power, EOL is not North Korea, should be more of a Democracy, imo. And insunlts? Ok, ppl insult Bjenn every time he gets online, have never seen anyone of those get a ban, why not? Because ops dont like Bjenn either? Its just weak leadership in my opinion.

Maybe there is some solid reason for TLs ban, and if so I would like to hear it, and if it was an insult, I need to know what happened. Insults go on on EOL every day, reasons provided is just too vague. Likeable guys break rules, no punishment, TL not liked by many, easy to punish. The ops should be best at following rules and state a good example of behaviour, by being this subjective I feel its quite the opposite.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Igge » 6 Apr 2013, 09:57

^ That's exactly the problem. It would be nice to have the mods tell us what they think in their book deserves a ban, and what doesn't. And maybe they could give us the specifics of this case, because after all, if the ban was just then there should be nothing to hide? Unless it negatively affects the person who was allegedly insulted, I see no harm in disclosing the facts.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by 8-ball » 6 Apr 2013, 10:21

cool cause, I join
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by snajdig » 6 Apr 2013, 10:45

TL could you share the picture you uploaded to zworqy some weeks ago?
Lousku: Snajdig, forgive all my subtle and not so subtle hostility towards you in the past. I can't go on harassing anyone who produces sach sweet wisdom.

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Madness » 6 Apr 2013, 11:31

So basically, everyone wants TL unbanned, no one was harmed by his talk, yet he's banned for a whole one year.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Pingywings » 6 Apr 2013, 12:18

i give up my pingywings classic table levpack
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by J-sim » 6 Apr 2013, 12:23

i'm for the unbanning, just because the thought of losing tl is so horible. for me personally he still makes the battles i enjoy the most.

but either way - and talking more generally - i don't get why anyone should serve a 1 year ban (ONE YEAR!!!). the kind of message this sends is that we as a community want nothing to do with this person whatsoever. so for me a ban like that should only be used in totally extreme cases. and without knowing the specifics of this personal attack, it can never be justified to ban for a year.

also, aren't the general problems we might have had in the beginning of eol: cheating, russian anons speaking russian, general non-english all gone now, more or less. in the last year i haven't been annoyed by anyone in eol to the point where i thought they deserved even a one week chat ban. of course we can all handle different levels of annoyance, and making small bans definitely can help keep things going smoothly. i just feel like we're carrying some really bad banning culture from a time where it was perhaps more necessary.


it seems like tl is actually content with carrying on putting battles up while not being able to chat. but i geuss almost anyone else (except nobody) would have left the community for good with such a ban.

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by ville_j » 6 Apr 2013, 12:34

The banning system has been discussed before and how it should work, I don't think this is the place to start criticizing it now that your fav kuski got banned. Rules are rules, if you get banned breaking them, don't complain. If you get away with it, be happy. But yes, I think the rules should be the same for everyone, but this is not the case in the community in general (not just in eol).
J-sim wrote:also, aren't the general problems we might have had in the beginning of eol: cheating, russian anons speaking russian, general non-english all gone now, more or less.
Yes absolutely. And don't you think it might have something to do with fact that you can actually get 1 year ban and people don't want that to happen? If we only gave some warnings and meaningless bans all the time, people would keep on mongoing.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Kopaka » 6 Apr 2013, 13:08

First of all banners can't be online all the time, would have to give every other kuski ban rights. I rely a lot on people telling me about offenses.

Secondly I didn't give the ban, although it might be clear that I agree with it, given my post in the other topic. And sure personal opinions of banners will always have an influence, can't deny that, but it's not that I have some hate for TL. There's ban appeals for this, in which case I will try to discuss the ban with other banners, so one guy's opinion isn't gonna be law.

Thirdly, for reasons like this I try to be very specific in the bans I give, that is not the case in this ban, however, this is the situation that I mentioned in the other topic http://kopasite.net/up/ry27cucymux6p7h/tlban.txt and that's just a part of it (chat log is offline on the site for the moment(conspiracy?!?), so can't show more).

Although we have not (yet) changed the rules based on the rules discussion topic from last year, as a result of that topic I have become more forgiven when it comes to writing a bit of non english here and there, but not so far as to go back and remove bans. One year ban is tough indeed, there's a few in effect at the moment, all of which are cases of people showing no respect for rules what so ever.

In the end I feel an appeal should come from TL himself, if he feels it's unjustified.

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Lousku » 6 Apr 2013, 13:17

ramone wrote:EOL is not North Korea, should be more of a Democracy, imo.
It's a private community. Nobody is forced to take part. Of course you want democracy, you're not in a position of power. But there's no reason why "the leaders" should listen to you or allow people they dislike to make their experience worse. I don't really have an opinion on TL being banned, but objectively thinking the moderators need no valid reason for banning at all.
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Zweq » 6 Apr 2013, 14:05

donno what happenink, but i usually agree with jon, for a reason
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by pawq » 6 Apr 2013, 17:51

Kopa is possibly the most respected, considerate, reasonable, influential and contributing man in the scene. Also kinda the boss. And you're trying to blackmail him.

Ridiculous. No respect shown whatsoever, to a decision that has been supported with proper arguments, even though it didn't have to.
It's been said many times before, regulations are regulations, and nobody can be allowed to ignore them for any reason, because the regulations stop having a point then. So get over the mods' decision and stfu already.

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Lukazz » 6 Apr 2013, 21:33

ramone wrote:EOL is not North Korea, should be more of a Democracy, imo.
Eh, democracy doesn't mean, that punishments are open for a voting...

I don't care. Saying that TL has a "negative attitude" overall, doesn't even begin to cover it. He insults people randomly and insults other people's lifestyles. It's fucking annoying. One year may be a little too much, but he definitely deserves the ban.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Thundr- » 7 Apr 2013, 03:19

Kopaka wrote: Although we have not (yet) changed the rules based on the rules discussion topic from last year
Indeed though im kind of curious as to why there no was conclusion to that topic: http://mopolauta.moposite.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8664

Why have nothing, at all, happened during the spam of almost a year? The discussion was inconclusive and ran out in the sand? Too little time? Other very time consuming matters? Forgotten? Whats preventing you and the people in charge to take immediate action and post a conclusive result today, tommorow or within less than a week, whether to change them or even to stay with the current rules? Not criticizing here if there is indeed very short of time for you and c/o (working with a game basically for free) Just curious.

Edit: while we are on the topic, a schedule on whats on the agenda for eol would perhaps be nice, posted on eolsite/moposite etc like: Ranking System > Rules > Bug fixes > New improved site and maybe a weekly/biweekly/monthly report on how things are progressing would be interesting

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by A.K.B. » 7 Apr 2013, 04:06

TL creates possibly the worst levels - in abundance. He seriously needs a kick in the pants as far as quality is concerned.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Mats » 7 Apr 2013, 04:57

TL has a few bad battles, but overall 90% good levels.
Chris wrote:I will start more levels if TL not unbanned! :wink:
Didn't you start the other topic...
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Ramone » 7 Apr 2013, 11:38

Lousku wrote:
ramone wrote:EOL is not North Korea, should be more of a Democracy, imo.
It's a private community. Nobody is forced to take part. Of course you want democracy, you're not in a position of power. But there's no reason why "the leaders" should listen to you or allow people they dislike to make their experience worse. I don't really have an opinion on TL being banned, but objectively thinking the moderators need no valid reason for banning at all.
I dont agree at all Lousku, its a private community in a way, but also because of SL leak there are really no other way to enjoy Elma but EOL. Its the official place to play, only way to do wrs and acceptable external times. So saying I dont have to take part and moderators wouldnt need valid reasons is just stupid. EOL is now the heart of Elma, as Moposite once were. And with that in mind its not fair at all to say what you said.

From reading chatlog I see what TL said is of course unacceptable, same with infecteds reply. But I dont see why infected for one week ban where TL got one year. Similar things can be seen in chat everyday. Like all the shit Bjenn been forced to endure. And yes Kopaka, I understand its not always possible for banners to be online and I understand you have to rely on the users to bring unjust behaviour to your table. And I understand its hard to be totally objective in these calls, we are subjective beeings. Still a one-year-ban is totally out of line and really going way too far. J-sim explained this in a good way.

Also Kopaka was clear now and told appeal should come from TL himself, and that thats the only way to break the ban. It feels reasonable but also as with all politics, general opinion matters too, so I guess TL can use these mopolautathreads as arguments for his appeal. Im not sure TL has read all these topics, but Ill PM him when I see him and tell him about it, though last I spoke with him he didnt think it would do any good. But I will convince him to write an appeal anyway.

I understand its not easy to always be fair and unjust decisions can easily wrongly be made, and its not always clear to see whats just or unjust. But that is also why public opinion matters, if most ppl think something feels wrong, it may be worth taking up to discussion. And Kopaka, in the future, try to be more clear when explain reasons for ban. If this ban was handled differently from the beginning Im sure there wouldnt be this much fuzz about it.

So thanks for clearing things up, I see a ban is justified but one year ban dont fit the crime, as I feel.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by ville_j » 7 Apr 2013, 11:47

Saying things like "this happens every day" (and what anp said in other topic that all other finns are more negative) is exaggerating, at least I can't remember seen such ugly shit in the chat ever. If it happens daily then it must be easy for you to point some quotes. I don't know what planet you live on. Or maybe I'm just online at the right time.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Ramone » 7 Apr 2013, 12:02

Well. every day might be some exxagerating, but there have been alot of hostility. Ask Bjenn, he had to put up with way too much shit. And swedish speaking happens every day during daytime.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Thundr- » 7 Apr 2013, 12:15

not to talk about all them russian speaking, probably 3x times any other language

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Chris » 7 Apr 2013, 12:29

Mats wrote:TL has a few bad battles, but overall 90% good levels.
Chris wrote:I will start more levels if TL not unbanned! :wink:
Didn't you start the other topic...
Many people don't like my levels. Anyway, I don't have any plans to start any battles.

Ville_J wrote:Saying things like "this happens every day" (and what anp said in other topic that all other finns are more negative) is exaggerating, at least I can't remember seen such ugly shit in the chat ever. If it happens daily then it must be easy for you to point some quotes. I don't know what planet you live on. Or maybe I'm just online at the right time.
Usually it's friendly atmosphere on EOL, but I've seen worse chat lines on EOL than that. I'm also being called idiot many times and subject of abuse by some mods.... (I'm not talking about my start battle bans, because they were rather reasonable). Usually I don't make a big deal of it, because I can deal with it by myself without any help from anyone, but such a things should be dealt by mods regardless of my stance if they keep mentioning rules as reason of ban. There is no option to report abuse other than talking with mods in person. In reality TL and infected were unlucky, because some mod was reading chat.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by ville_j » 7 Apr 2013, 12:33

Sure, I am constantly insulted too but sadly I don't have anything to back that up. What I have seen about the bjenn issue, it has mostly been lines like "omg nab bjenn XD" which is far from this TL situation in my opinion. I am just speaking in my point of view, but it is very annoying when you exaggerate things to make this situation look harmless. I hope you have reported all those rule breakings you are talking about.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Chris » 7 Apr 2013, 12:39

Ville_J wrote:Sure, I am constantly insulted too but sadly I don't have anything to back that up. What I have seen about the bjenn issue, it has mostly been lines like "omg nab bjenn XD" which is far from this TL situation in my opinion. I am just speaking in my point of view, but it is very annoying when you exaggerate things to make this situation look harmless. I hope you have reported all those rule breakings you are talking about.
Jappe2 was abusing his rights and Jappe2 is still mod. After that I see no point of doing anything with other abuses.

Here is one of examples:

http://mopolauta.moposite.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8355&
[01:43:31] (Yoni) !jew 10*
[01:43:56] (Jappe2) jewlover
[01:44:09] (Yoni) im a jew.
[01:44:14] (Yoni) and proud to be so
[01:44:15] (Jappe2) raus raus juden raus
[01:46:27] (Yoni) anyway, jappe what do you have against us?
[01:46:56] (Jappe2) hitler is my hero
[01:47:08] (Yoni) then i feel sorry for u
[01:47:56] (Jappe2) yoni i might feel little bit sorry for you when you are baking in
[01:48:00] (Jappe2) the oven, but just a little
[...]
[01:52:47] (Jappe2) dont listen to this jew
[01:53:14] (Yoni) jappe, im just curious, are you arab?
[01:54:37] (Jappe2) no yoni im part of the superior race
[01:54:46] (Yoni) which is?
[01:54:59] (Jappe2) look at this stupid jew
[01:55:08] (Jappe2) aryan race
[...]
[01:59:39] (Jappe2) think of the apple as a jew
[01:59:45] (Jappe2) and flower as gas chamber
[01:59:59] (Jappe2) and im sure you will make very fast times
Where is one year chatban for him? Do you understand me now vj?
Last edited by Chris on 7 Apr 2013, 12:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by 8-ball » 7 Apr 2013, 12:41

To be fair while most people just like to tease around and it's all good part of the battling and competitive spirit, TL actually just appears to be a legitimately hateful, bitter, disturbed person. My idea was to give more people some kind of '1 hour mute' rights to get such episodes under control without disrupting the flow of battles. It's obvious that we want TL's product to remain around but he comes as a whole (however damaged) package.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by ville_j » 7 Apr 2013, 12:47

Chris, I totally understand you and this is exactly what I was referring in my earlier post when I said that rules should be same for everyone, but it doesn't happen. Jappe2 has been abusing his mod rights countless times and I don't understand what kind of a position he is in to do that without losing the rights. But I haven't seen this happen on other kuskis occasion.
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anpdad
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by anpdad » 7 Apr 2013, 14:04

Never had issues with TL being offensive or anything, but had been put under influence of his weird funky humor before he got banned. Never seen him insult anyone without being attacked first. Actually, never seen him insult anyone while i was online (being negative? yes). I wouldnt be surprised if something happened before that Infected-TL talk which prompted him to become more aggressive (but it's just an assumption which doesnt change any facts of course. In either case, some punishment is justified, and thanks for responding as always Kopaka).
But, since we have Jappe's case having been ignored for months, Ramone getting away with FUCKFACE GO DIE YOUR LEV SUCKS attitude which lasted for months also, and less major things by many people, such a severe punishment feels like a huge stretch.

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Ramone » 7 Apr 2013, 15:36

I accually said plenty of those bad things. But if you check log I stopped with the personal attacks. I only attack levels now. I feel very bad for saying those things and understand I may have hurt some ppl. There was this documentary on hatred on the web on swedish tv and from that on I didnt do any harsch personal attack. If you feel I deserva a one week ban for this behaviour I wont argue.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by anpdad » 7 Apr 2013, 16:08

ye not talking about now of course, just about some period in the past, sorry if i wasnt clear enough:)

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by gimp » 7 Apr 2013, 20:53

From the earlier talk about jappe2 I'd have to say that's a great example of favoritism. A whole topic was made about simply taking away jappes rights and evidence was given and strong popular favor too that he's basically an ass and nothing was done at all. I personally remember jappe2 harassing me and Devin about being American for no reason at all. Many on here have that motto "rules are rules and that's that". Well that's fine and dandy if they actually apply to everyone. I would support TLs ban but first you have to at least take away jappes rights. He's gotten away with all kinds of shit compared to tl for a long period of time. Kopaka if you say you strongly base your decisions on what you hear then where was the justice in the topic on jappe? How is what he's done different than what you've heard about tl? Btw I do think kopaka is a good guy and is he the right person to address in this issue I don't know? But with great power comes great responsibility so its unlikely being a good guy and all automatically makes someone right. Indeed I probably couldnt do better than him in running the bans.
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by pawq » 7 Apr 2013, 22:12

Jappe case brought up again... Come on, what did you expect, he had been here for too long and is too close to all the oldschoolers for any harm to come to him. Obviously, being so influential and well-known he's under a kind of an immunity. Unfortunately, however we all hate him (I, personally, dislike him very strongly), I doubt anything is ever going to change that.

Going back to TL now. As mentioned above, most of the everyday insulting is in fact quite innocent teasing, and we are all used to that. The responses to that are usually accordingly non-aggressive and peaceful (apart from Bjenn's.) Cases of, as Xarthok nicely put it, "legitimately hateful, bitter, disturbed" behaviour can be clearly distinguished and in my honest opinion should be treated differently.

However, isn't chat ban supposed to be used in cases of chat abuse? Even if a year long, I think that's reasonable. Since, like others, I feel a comprehensive 1 year long ban may be a stretch, I feel that a chat ban of this length would be very reasonable. Nevertheless, this is only an expression of a thought, and I don't intend to combat the mods' decision. Not this time at least; (have I grown up enough not to do it?)

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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by Chris » 8 Apr 2013, 23:31

gimp wrote:From the earlier talk about jappe2 I'd have to say that's a great example of favoritism. A whole topic was made about simply taking away jappes rights and evidence was given and strong popular favor too that he's basically an ass and nothing was done at all. I personally remember jappe2 harassing me and Devin about being American for no reason at all. Many on here have that motto "rules are rules and that's that". Well that's fine and dandy if they actually apply to everyone. I would support TLs ban but first you have to at least take away jappes rights. He's gotten away with all kinds of shit compared to tl for a long period of time. Kopaka if you say you strongly base your decisions on what you hear then where was the justice in the topic on jappe? How is what he's done different than what you've heard about tl? Btw I do think kopaka is a good guy and is he the right person to address in this issue I don't know? But with great power comes great responsibility so its unlikely being a good guy and all automatically makes someone right. Indeed I probably couldnt do better than him in running the bans.
All Kopaka can tell you is that you should get over it, forget, nothing to see here etc. The funny thing is that J2 was given the privileges only because he happened to make some video or something...
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Re: Join my cause - Get TL unbanned

Post by gimp » 9 Apr 2013, 00:09

I know nothing will happen to Jappe, and thats my main point.
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