Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

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Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by 8-ball » 12 Sep 2016, 12:23

phpBB has had a good run but I believe the community would benefit more from an upgrade to a more modern platform such as Discourse or nodeBB.

In the case of Discourse, it offers an almost seamless transition, keeping all user accounts and forum posts of the old forum.

Some reasons to upgrade would be:
- Make lauta usable on mobile
- Make search less useless
- Markdown formatting
- (Subjectively) less cluttered, more modern UI that emphasizes content
- Easier integration with the Discord bot for features such as notifications of new posts in some channel
- Infinite scrolling
- Drag and drop attachments
- Live updating

It's pretty customizable, you can see how it looks used by some other communities here:
https://twittercommunity.com/
https://discuss.atom.io/
https://www.sitepoint.com/community
https://forums.meteor.com/
https://discourse.mozilla-community.org/
http://discourse.ubuntu.com/
https://discourse.soylent.com/

nodeBB is also very much worth considering but haven't looked into it as much personally.
Some examples found here: https://community.nodebb.org/topic/180/ ... ing-nodebb

Ideally this transition would take place and remain on Moposite servers of course but other options are also possible.
Last edited by 8-ball on 12 Sep 2016, 13:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by bene » 12 Sep 2016, 13:05

Change is good you missed reason to upgrade: emoji support. Smilies in phpbb so 1995 and boring.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Madness » 12 Sep 2016, 13:05

Oh God, no!
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by bene » 12 Sep 2016, 13:11

Please specific y u are against change.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by ville_j » 12 Sep 2016, 13:32

I think this is a good idea. I don't really have any problems with this current forum, but it only makes sense to upgrade to some more modern platform because in the end they allow more things. But this isn't a huge issue for me. Only thing that I really want is please someone who can, add some responsive theme so that using this forum with a mobile device isn't so horror.

Please someone add some responsive phpbb theme.

I have waited that for four years already.

Also, if you are against upgrading then would be indeed nice to hear some reasoning.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by kuchitsu » 12 Sep 2016, 14:03

Reason: it always FUCKING SUCKS when you've been using a site for many many years and been totally happy with it, then one day you come and see some ugly modern layout you'll never get used to.

I never understood the idea that older stuff needs to be changed to be more like newer stuff.

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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by 8-ball » 12 Sep 2016, 14:06

An argument for nodeBB and against Discourse: the former requires less than 500MB RAM and the latter requires at least 1GB. If I or someone else needs to self-host it then the cost could make a big difference ($5 vs $10 a month on DigitalOcean at least)
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Sunshine » 12 Sep 2016, 14:14

i was kinda for the change before i saw those examples, they are HORRIBLE. not at all more readable to me, everything just blends together, would never visit again if lauta started looking like that. 70% whitespace i dont know how anyone can like such
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Lammas » 12 Sep 2016, 14:29

loks oke
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Labs » 12 Sep 2016, 14:31

kuchitsu wrote:Reason: it always FUCKING SUCKS when you've been using a site for many many years and been totally happy with it, then one day you come and see some ugly modern layout you'll never get used to.

I never understood the idea that older stuff needs to be changed to be more like newer stuff.
This, also checked "templates", all of em very ugly!
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Bjenn » 12 Sep 2016, 14:53

Didn't like any of the examples.
I hate the infinite scroll function, if you fast want to search for something (ctrl+f) you first have to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll.

Hard to see topics, everything mixes together somehow.

nodeBB looked better but it also has the infinite scroll function which I hate xD

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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by skint0r » 12 Sep 2016, 15:03

discourse max horror to me for some bigger forum with subforums like lauta, nice if just need very simple thing. definitely prefer the nodebb route if going there. would be nice make some old pre-phpbb lauta theme for nostalgia, ez best one anyway! and much easier to make it look more phpbb-like if want for nab users also.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by 8-ball » 12 Sep 2016, 15:12

Bjenn wrote:I hate the infinite scroll function, if you fast want to search for something (ctrl+f) you first have to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll.
This is why the search icon in the top bar is like Ctrl+F but for the entire thread.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Zweq » 12 Sep 2016, 16:57

I don't use mobile devices (yet), so I don't need a new lauta. But I also don't mind lauta entering 2010s.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Kopaka » 12 Sep 2016, 20:31

Haven't really looked into those too much so hard to say if it's worth the switch. As ville mentions just adding some new themes can help with mobile friendlyness, and upgrading to latest version will get us some improvements. The current is still being actively developed even if it seems like they're half a decade behind standards. What we need also is someone active with access to server to do those upgrades and some active mods.

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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by SveinR » 12 Sep 2016, 20:51

Kopaka wrote:[...] and some active mods.
Does anyone want to be a mod? And what should an active lauta moderator do in this day and age, enforce these rules with a strict hand?

If someone wants to be a mod send me a PM and we can make it happen.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Madness » 13 Sep 2016, 00:02

We don't need a new mod, you are the best mod.
kuchitsu wrote:I never understood the idea that older stuff needs to be changed to be more like newer stuff.
Agree 100%.

If Mopolauta looked like anything in those examples in the first post, I would never use it again.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Chris » 13 Sep 2016, 06:28

how is infinite scrolling reason to switch???
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Lousku » 13 Sep 2016, 09:24

I'm suar Discourse layout would be better for mobile devices, but I think it's nat really better for desktop which I guess is priority for most of us still. phpBB has insane amounts of whitespace between posts, but this Discourse has insane amounts of whitespace on the sides. "Responsive design" shouldn't take away from desktop usability.

I hate the pagination gak on phpBB (healoh, no problem to load more posts at once in 2016) but infinite scroll is very annoying too. Maybe if it loaded a large amount of posts by default (like equivalent of 10 phpBB pages or whatever, this could also ez be a user choice) and then had a click to load moar or infinite scroll (choice, why nat). That might be goad. I dunno really but this is a really bad aspect of phpBB in my imo.
then again i don't know anything
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by roope » 13 Sep 2016, 09:44

Call me an old-fashioned nab but I really wouldn't want any change.

Maybe a few coder people would like moderner markup and cool features and gak, but at the same time I think that would estrange some of the old users: for them (and me) it would be just annoy effort to learn new when there was close to nothing wrong with old. Like kuchitsu mentioned, I've had that happen in some sites I very frequently used and as a result I ended up not wanting to use them anymore.

So far arguments I've head for new shiatz is:
  • BBCode sucks - I've never had problems with it, would need to learn new
  • Search sucks - I've never had problems with it, only thing that was answered when I asked why was that it doesn't include (some) short words, which is nat najs ofc but I've never encountered problems with it
  • Too many pages - indifferent about teh, maybe would be oke to have more posts per page but never ever infinite scrolling
  • More features - what features for example?
Of course though if something changed I'd probably be annoyed at least at first, maybe get used to or maybe nat, but then just end up using it anyway, since Lauta is still important enough for me. I just feel like that Lauta is the least of the scene's worries right now; we could focus effort on improving more important stuff.

EDIT: of course mobile usability would be great to improve, not sure but isn't that possible to improve with just adding mobile-suitable themes?
Last edited by roope on 13 Sep 2016, 10:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by bene » 13 Sep 2016, 09:54

Lousku wrote:but this Discourse has insane amounts of whitespace on the sides. "Responsive design" shouldn't take away from desktop usability.
phpBB is impossible to use on desktop with lauta theme cause lines are impossibly long need to move head like an motherfuker when read on 27" desktop monitor. I don't find no whitespace on sides usable for desktop.

I agree that all layout examples look horrible and nonforumy but it should be very customizabel.

Edit: nodebb looks better and maybe a viable solution is to upgrade phpbb version and add responsive themes so don't have this problem with impossibly long lines and mobile support. More mods probably nat needed but mans with server access is neded.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by BlaZtek » 13 Sep 2016, 10:34

Why always need to fresh up and change everything. Old is gold. I don't want any change here in lauta.

NB: This is written from my mobile by the way. As I often scroll lauta with it, and got no problem with that.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Lee » 13 Sep 2016, 11:13

in my onion something needs a change. i seem to recall an attempt to implement a 'Team' option to sit under our avatars (check your 'Edit Profile' page to see what i mean), which makes a lot of sense. but the current version of the phpbb being used is outdated and wouldn't allow it to be displayed. so at least update that to the latest version, etc. just the little new features would be worth it.
btw i wouldn't mind a complete change to some other shiz.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by ville_j » 13 Sep 2016, 13:57

BlaZtek wrote:NB: This is written from my mobile by the way. As I often scroll lauta with it, and got no problem with that.
You have got to be kidding me! Writing a post is the most horrorest when the textbox goes horizontally out of the view and you have to scroll to see what you are typing. Also need to zoom and scroll every time you refresh a page. OMG I can't believe what you just said! Life would be so much easier if lauta had a proper responsive layout. Bring mopolauta to the year 2016!
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Sunshine » 13 Sep 2016, 15:24

seems to me that all the coders etc are for the change and rest norm people are not. i guess this is why websites get horrible UI updates that no one wanted and then alienate the users
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by ville_j » 13 Sep 2016, 16:03

That's because developers understand to think forward and not getting stuck in the 70s with you grannies rocking your black and white CRT televisions.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Labs » 13 Sep 2016, 16:32

They like ugly designs maybe.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Lousku » 13 Sep 2016, 16:37

On teh other hand people tend to oppose change for no good reason. "I got used to this design 15 years ago because it came along with another thing I wanted (elma talk or whatever), therefore it shouldn't be changed." But maybe Discourse is nat the wanted solution.

I hope we wouldn't cling onto old design and oppose change for sentimental reasons.
I hope we wouldn't junp onto new underdeveloped platforms because they're new and exciting.

Not really saying anyone here fits either of those exaggerations.

BTW, I'm pooping as I type this. phpBB is usable on mobile once used to it, but obviously it could be fucktons beter.
then again i don't know anything
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by skint0r » 13 Sep 2016, 21:51

feels norm elma scene thing clinging to old things, can understand but it also makes it hard to go forward. stuff like relying on old patchwork stuff, all information and people spread out. all this causing there to be more people leaving than coming into the scene. no wander so hard to get new people in with relying on old eol haxed together thing, eol site having online stuff, moposite other things, and suddenly forum there we all use even if it's linked on eol site.

you know with new forum, it could be linked to eol db, same user in eol as forum? you could get tt display, teams, minute break badges automatically, integration with anything coming to potential new eol site. proper api (or an axual api in the first place), so you can use lauta data and make stuff like ez discord bot giving new tropic updates and messages, all kinds of shit possible.

duno why people so obsessing over example designs, it's just csss, you can make it look more or less exactly like it does now if you want to. the look is not really the point here at all.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Sla » 13 Sep 2016, 22:42

I like current Lauta and im used to it of course, but i like the idea to get all those updates skint0r said and itll be always better to have an updated site. Could bring new players maybe and a lot of new things we dont even know.
Also i think players like Madness who wrote that they wont ever join Lauta again if it is updated, they will for sure. Simply they will keep reading all topics, uploading and downloading recs, etc.

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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by roope » 13 Sep 2016, 23:15

skint0r wrote: you know with new forum, it could be linked to eol db, same user in eol as forum? you could get tt display, teams, minute break badges automatically, integration with anything coming to potential new eol site. proper api (or an axual api in the first place), so you can use lauta data and make stuff like ez discord bot giving new tropic updates and messages, all kinds of shit possible.
Najs, these kind of examples I wanted to hear, already makes me much less opposed to change :>
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by 8-ball » 14 Sep 2016, 01:16

What skint said. I should have put more emphasis on all that in the original post :)

People not following #developers on Discord are not aware of it but a new wave of exciting developments has started currently focused on making the Discord experience better but more importantly also suggesting the possibility of several people collaborating on a EOL site rewrite taking advantage of current technologies to make it easier to deal with current site issues and to make it much easier for others to contribute and help extending site functionality and integrating it with services like Discord and even Mopolauta. Using a current generation forum software would make a myriad of otherwise unrealistic or currently unnecessarily complicated integrations much easier to accomplish. It's a shame that an open source, collaborative approach at improving the Elma tools, community and experience in general hasn't been taken full advantage of before, seeing how many programmers are present in the scene. They mostly seem to be doing their own thing which is great but I've no doubt a lot more could have been accomplished by a more collaborative approach.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by pawq » 14 Sep 2016, 12:31

I was like "meh" but then wild skint0r appeared
skint0r wrote:you know with new forum, it could be linked to eol db, same user in eol as forum? you could get tt display, teams, minute break badges automatically, integration with anything coming to potential new eol site. proper api (or an axual api in the first place), so you can use lauta data and make stuff like ez discord bot giving new tropic updates and messages, all kinds of shit possible.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Chris » 15 Sep 2016, 19:46

skint0r speaks sense. Simply switching to "modern" system isn't enough, but if we get some extra features I'm in, just plz no infinite scrolling...
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Pab » 16 Sep 2016, 04:05

For my: when i readed 8ball idea i was like fuck yeah baby, but then saw examples in the first post and they were very discouraging.
But there might be some real good ones, this one for example (nodeBB) doesnt seem as bad as those examples in the first post: https://notepad-plus-plus.org/community/, it could be better tho.
You can manually scroll with a button, dont need to use mouse scroll, which is quiet effective against infinite scroll rejection that i share with others.

I dont use lauta that much, right now it works fine for me. But used in phone many times and it was not responsive at all, but at the same time didnt care. DUNNO WHAT TO THINK, whatever is best.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by SveinR » 16 Sep 2016, 13:32

skint0r's idea sound nice, I must say.

However, as I've also mentioned in #across: I would very much like to see an example of how these boards handle massive topics (1000+ posts), which Mopolauta have several of. All the examples I've checked so for only have very small topics, with only about 15-50 posts.

For example, New Internal Times weighs in at a hefty 14395 posts. We need to make sure a new and modern forum design can handle such topics as well.
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by bene » 16 Sep 2016, 23:17

SveinR wrote:And what should an active lauta moderator do in this day and age
* Give access to lauta db to 8ball so we can test nodebb
* Also like 5 mans without updated status that want updated status
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Re: Idea: upgrade forum software to Discourse or nodeBB

Post by Hosp » 23 Nov 2016, 04:03

Those examples was scary bad looking. I like old lauta this kinda forum is the best forum (see: flaskback.org)
But if mans decide to upgrade for new features osv that's oke, but personally I like it the way it is mostly.
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