Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

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Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Ruben »

Get stoked, folks, it's time for:

ELMA GRAND PRIX 3: GUEST EDITION

Time And Place
Elma Grand Prix 3, or EGP3, will be hosted first coming SUNDAY 9/10/16, 18:00 GMT, in EOL, and I'm sure most kuskis can agree that it's worth the trip.

General Information
EGP3 will be almost the same as the first two, but with added mystery. The levels are longer, they are harder, the battletimes are unknown to all, even me, and for the first time in EGP history none of the levels were made by me. The only predictable elements are the standard six levels and the points distribution which remains the same as in EGP2. As always, EGP3 is about scoring as many total points as possible in the levels that are presented during the event.

Rules
Total event time: 1-2 hours
Individual level time: Unknown
Number of levels: 6
Winner: Whoever has the highest total of points at the end of the event.

Points
1. - 20 points
2. - 17 points
3. - 15 points
4. - 13 points
5. - 11 points
6. - 10 points
7. - 9 points
8. - 8 points
9. - 7 points
10. - 6 points
11. - 5 points
12. - 4 points
13. - 3 points
14. - 2 points
15. - 1 points

Prize
Just like in the previous two EGP's, the winner will be awarded a picture I've found on the internet. Not the same one as any previous winners, of course.

Good luck, and may the best kuski win!

Results
Here are the complete results of all point scorers (for the first time in beautiful spreadsheet format):
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Congratulations Jblaze for finally getting that 1st place. Well done!

Reflections
Having other people make levels for you is more work than making them yourself. At least now the can is open and anyone can contribute with levs to future EGP's, if you wish. Most levels in the future will probably be made by me, and it seems most mans want it that way, which I'll take as a compliment, but I do appreciate collaborations very much if anyone is interested. All in all I'm happy that so many showed up, and if we can keep getting ~30 players for these things then that's a very nice in my opinion. I thought it was fun, and I hope you thought so too, and that you'll show up for the next one. I can't reveal any details of course, but a little bird told me it would be the shortest and the hoylaest of them all.
Last edited by Ruben on 9 Oct 2016, 21:21, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - SUNDAY 9/10/16 18:00 GMT

Post by Ruben »

Someone (I won't name names, but it was roope) suggested that I post a countdown to EGP3. Here it is, and in true patriotic fashion it's of course centered on Oslo time. Now there won't be any ambiguity, it starts when this clock says 0:00:00:00.

https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/g ... nt=cursive
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - SUNDAY 9/10/16 18:00 GMT

Post by Ruben »

OMG! Only one day left!
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - TODAY 9/10/16 18:00 GMT

Post by Ruben »

Only THREE HOURS to go!!!

Also, quadruple post ftw!
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Ruben »

Results
Here are the complete results of all point scorers (for the first time in beautiful spreadsheet format):
Image

Congratulations Jblaze for finally getting that 1st place. Well done!

Reflections
Having other people make levels for you is more work than making them yourself. At least now the can is open and anyone can contribute with levs to future EGP's, if you wish. Most levels in the future will probably be made by me, and it seems most mans want it that way, which I'll take as a compliment, but I do appreciate collaborations very much if anyone is interested. All in all I'm happy that so many showed up, and if we can keep getting ~30 players for these things then that's a very nice in my opinion. I thought it was fun, and I hope you thought so too, and that you'll show up for the next one. I can't reveal any details of course, but a little bird told me it would be the shortest and the hoylaest of them all.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Sla »

Interesting list, looks very nice. This could be system for every EGP to get it more serious.
In my opinion this EGP wasnt as good as 1st and 2nd, i think this is by the mix of levels. But if you make your own levs on nexts EGPs, it will be better imo.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by ville_j »

It was fun again, but yeah I agree the levels weren't as good as earlier. Also a bit weird that many levels by same designers, but ofc it doesn't really matter who made the lev if it just is oke. Next one being the shortest and hoylaest sounds a bit horror to me, but anyways going to participate for sure! Can I just ask that pls no levels with volt starts ty, this one had one such lev and beisikli that cost me a lot of points because I am physically and mentally impaired of performing a volt start. So it would be only fair not to make volt start because it adds nothing to the level, except a bit of bad playability. But yeah, seeing the stats is really nice and keep it up!
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Ruben »

ville_j wrote:It was fun again, but yeah I agree the levels weren't as good as earlier. Also a bit weird that many levels by same designers, but ofc it doesn't really matter who made the lev if it just is oke. Next one being the shortest and hoylaest sounds a bit horror to me, but anyways going to participate for sure! Can I just ask that pls no levels with volt starts ty, this one had one such lev and beisikli that cost me a lot of points because I am physically and mentally impaired of performing a volt start. So it would be only fair not to make volt start because it adds nothing to the level, except a bit of bad playability. But yeah, seeing the stats is really nice and keep it up!
I don't understand how this can be a problem for you, I see no other mans having to deal with it. I get that you don't like volt starts for that reason, but they are very useful. In short hoylas every second of playtime counts, and you really don't want two seconds of fluff at the start before anything happens. Volt starts against polys are great for getting a lot of speed very quickly in a controlled way.

I don't mean to sound like a grumpy fart, but you're gonna have to change something up because I can't promise no such starts, not unless this is a widespread problem. It kinda feels like someone complaining that the running contest is unfair because they only have one leg while everybody else have two. Like, what is your actual issue? I don't see how I can't be easily resolved.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by jblaze »

thxthx, feels nice to finally win it but my average EGP result is still 2nd! :(
bit surprised by winning as i could smell a very bad performance this day
and yes, the levels had some annoying points and some tiny luck factors, but it was still nice (im not a complaining guy when it comes to rating levels anyway) previous EGPs' levels were bit better in some way.
still enjoyed ofc and cant wait for next edition!

PS: ville 2nd, i am w0w :=P
gz for 5duple post ruben, najs score :DD
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by ville_j »

I am not the only one having that issue, but maybe I do have a specific way of making things sound bigger and worse than they actually are while others can just ignore it.
FinMan wrote:Though, I agree with ville_j, giving a player a few seconds to relax before the actual action starts makes playing/höyling way more relaxed and you don't have to esc within 0,2 sec if you fuck up the setup etc. Instead you can just hit that enter and chill. Doing volt+brake setups also results in retarded 0,03 faster start styles which make the battles a lot less relaxing. I would suggest avoiding those, same thing with drop starts. Sometimes even skipping shorter levels (or I was when played more battles) because the level had one of these horrible features.
That's from here.

So actually that's quite the opposite opinion from yours Ruben, not saying either one is right or wrong of course. The exact problem that I have is that when I need to use left volt and gas at the start, my right hand doesn't have fingers free to press enter, so I need to move my left hand to press it and then move it back to the playing position. If I need to brake instead then there is this problem that the menu cursor will jump to 'best times' when I press brake (I am using brake alias on keyboard x). These might sound like a minor issues, but when you play this game for 16 years it's the tiniest things that really start to get to you. I, too, have skipped some levels just because it has this kind of a start, and in this egp level I just refused to do it even though I am of course physically capable of doing it but mentally not so much. I know it gives you a boost and speedy start, but is that what you really need to put in a level knowing it might be an issue for some players (even though they don't start a shitstorm and yell horror lev over it like I do). I honestly think it doesn't do any level any good, or maybe in some very exceptional situation that I can't think of now. Of course, some people probably love these kind of starts, but I'm sure some day a world could exist without them and nobody would complain about it.. maybe?
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Ruben »

ville_j wrote:I am not the only one having that issue, but maybe I do have a specific way of making things sound bigger and worse than they actually are while others can just ignore it.
FinMan wrote:Though, I agree with ville_j, giving a player a few seconds to relax before the actual action starts makes playing/höyling way more relaxed and you don't have to esc within 0,2 sec if you fuck up the setup etc. Instead you can just hit that enter and chill. Doing volt+brake setups also results in retarded 0,03 faster start styles which make the battles a lot less relaxing. I would suggest avoiding those, same thing with drop starts. Sometimes even skipping shorter levels (or I was when played more battles) because the level had one of these horrible features.
That's from here.

So actually that's quite the opposite opinion from yours Ruben, not saying either one is right or wrong of course. The exact problem that I have is that when I need to use left volt and gas at the start, my right hand doesn't have fingers free to press enter, so I need to move my left hand to press it and then move it back to the playing position. If I need to brake instead then there is this problem that the menu cursor will jump to 'best times' when I press brake (I am using brake alias on keyboard x). These might sound like a minor issues, but when you play this game for 16 years it's the tiniest things that really start to get to you. I, too, have skipped some levels just because it has this kind of a start, and in this egp level I just refused to do it even though I am of course physically capable of doing it but mentally not so much. I know it gives you a boost and speedy start, but is that what you really need to put in a level knowing it might be an issue for some players (even though they don't start a shitstorm and yell horror lev over it like I do). I honestly think it doesn't do any level any good, or maybe in some very exceptional situation that I can't think of now. Of course, some people probably love these kind of starts, but I'm sure some day a world could exist without them and nobody would complain about it.. maybe?
Heh well, every EGP level has a volt start or a drop start, precisely because of the reasons fm said (exept I have the opposite opinion). Hoyling starts at 00:00:00, no waiting around. This means less "wasted time" so to speak, especially in hoyla levs I find this to be important. Very annoying if there is an 8 second lev and nothing happens for the first 2 seconds. That makes 25% of the level worthless, and also 25% of the playtime. In a >30 second lev that initial 2 seconds aren't so important, and having more relaxing start is better. The thing is, though, I don't want it to be relaxing, this contest was initially made with the soul purpose of being stressful, and with that in mind I want to utilize every type of start possible, except for still flat gas starts, which I find extremely boring and frustrating to play.

This might sound really mean, but you kinda deserve to lose points if you refuse to move your hands the way every player moves them. Unless it's an actual physical impossibility I kinda don't want to limit myself. I've learned that some keycombos are genuinely impossible on many backwards keyboards for Windows, and I try to avoid those, but holding in a few buttons at start shouldn't be too tall an order.

Differing opinions in levmaking will always be there, and it's just impossible to please all, especially when there are so many opposites.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by ville_j »

That's all true of course and if you really think that's the kind of a start a level has to have in your opinion then you can ofc make it. I don't want anyone to make a level and leave important stuff out just because someone isn't going to like it, the point is more to raise awareness of this syndrome I have and what's causing it. But quite objectively said the egp level I am talking about would not have really been any different without the push start, it just is there and does absolutely nothing except causes a stress but if that's the whole point then it is very good. It probably wastes more time than a non-push start because need to place hands and fingers and probably esc more because of it. And yes I do agree that I deserve worse results if I won't go through the same troubles as other people go through just because I want to live a smoother life. I have learned to accept my illness and how it affects my everyday life and weakens my performance but it doesn't stop me from participating in egp. Some people have to live with a cancer too.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Ruben »

ville_j wrote:That's all true of course and if you really think that's the kind of a start a level has to have in your opinion then you can ofc make it. I don't want anyone to make a level and leave important stuff out just because someone isn't going to like it, the point is more to raise awareness of this syndrome I have and what's causing it. But quite objectively said the egp level I am talking about would not have really been any different without the push start, it just is there and does absolutely nothing except causes a stress but if that's the whole point then it is very good. It probably wastes more time than a non-push start because need to place hands and fingers and probably esc more because of it. And yes I do agree that I deserve worse results if I won't go through the same troubles as other people go through just because I want to live a smoother life. I have learned to accept my illness and how it affects my everyday life and weakens my performance but it doesn't stop me from participating in egp. Some people have to live with a cancer too.
That's the edge Orcc has on you, isn't it xD
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Madness »

Brake at start:
1) Hold down arrow
2) Press up arrow once
3) Press enter

Alternative solution:
1) Use brake alias
ville_j wrote:The exact problem that I have is that when I need to use left volt and gas at the start, my right hand doesn't have fingers free to press enter
This is not a problem, you have 5 fingers and only need to press 3 keys.

If you use arrows:
1) Ring finger -> up arrow
2) Index finger -> left arrow
3) Middle finger -> enter
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Pab »

i didnt read any of the above post (LOTS OF LAUGHTER). Just wanna say that after not being so active playing online as i not long ago was able to be, it was sick nice to play this battles among many ppl, very intense and fun battles, nonetheless norm battles :>
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by ville_j »

Madness wrote:Brake at start:
1) Hold down arrow
2) Press up arrow once
3) Press enter
And after 16 years this is getting very tiring. Especially when you know that it's absolutely unnecessary thing, the level could 100% exist even without it.
Madness wrote:Alternative solution:
1) Use brake alias
Try reading my post again
Madness wrote:
ville_j wrote:The exact problem that I have is that when I need to use left volt and gas at the start, my right hand doesn't have fingers free to press enter
This is not a problem, you have 5 fingers and only need to press 3 keys.

If you use arrows:
1) Ring finger -> up arrow
2) Index finger -> left arrow
3) Middle finger -> enter
I use index finger to left volt and middle finger to gas. I really don't want to go through these little tricks. As I said I rather choose not to do it and get a disadvantage even though I very well could be doing it.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

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ville_j wrote:If I need to brake instead then there is this problem that the menu cursor will jump to 'best times' when I press brake
Oh my god I hate this so much.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Bjenn »

I press and hold gas or brake when I die or before I escape, so I don't have to use that trick of pressing down arrow then up then Enter. Lyfe hacks, you herd it from me first ;o
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Zweq »

PLÖÄ and OKLÖ master races for play again..
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by AndrY »

kuchitsu wrote:
ville_j wrote:If I need to brake instead then there is this problem that the menu cursor will jump to 'best times' when I press brake
Oh my god I hate this so much.
similar problem but with gas ("v" button) :D btw, why I'm not in table. I participied in 1st Lev)

edit: oke I uderstood
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Ruben »

kuchitsu wrote:
ville_j wrote:If I need to brake instead then there is this problem that the menu cursor will jump to 'best times' when I press brake
Oh my god I hate this so much.
Just use alias brake. Need it for hilling anyway (unless you're doing some weird thing where you have both hands on arrow keys) and it's nifty in a few other situations as well, so I don't understand why people don't use it.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by ville_j »

I am using brake alias as I already said and it doesn't solve the problem; if anything it makes it even worse since if you have brake on normal down arrow the menu cursor will jump to 'replay', but when I have it on x the cursor will jump to 'best times' which is the farthest menu item from play.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Ruben »

ville_j wrote:I am using brake alias as I already said and it doesn't solve the problem; if anything it makes it even worse since if you have brake on normal down arrow the menu cursor will jump to 'replay', but when I have it on x the cursor will jump to 'best times' which is the farthest menu item from play.
What? I got alo on x, never had that happen. Why don't you change keys then? Seems kinda pointless to have alias when it's unusable.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by ville_j »

Maybe you don't have the search feature enabled on eolconf. You know when you are browsing levels you can use your keyboard to type and quickly jump to certain level file. Changing elma keys is not really that simple, you know how important it is to know the controls so well you could play blindfolded. My brake alias is not unusable, it is actually very usable 99.9% of the time but every once in a while someone thinks it's a good idea to make a brake-volt start and that's when it's almost unusable. Even jblaze has brake alias on x, that proves that it's the right choice.

A bit similar dilemma I have with default ground/sky and high/low details and/or highq.lgr. Would be nice to have different ground textures and see pictures, but every once in a while someone thinks headbanger mode is good or making weird masking. Again, if you really think that's important for the level and you think you absolutely have to have brick and ground combo then feel free to do it but it just ruins the playability for many people.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Zweq »

I have to disagree on the importance of key locations, as long as the pattern is the same. I moved my keys many times in my elma career and never had any problems adjusting, as long as the pattern is tetris-shape triangle for the most important keys. Sure if you put throttle to q and right arrow to k and left arrow to v then you're fukd. I've moved from arrows to numpad to PLÖÄ to OKLÖ, and multi was never a problem with WASD.

I have noticed the nonimportance when playing with left hand, can easily do 15 times in warm up, much better than beginners (I think 17 times would be expected result). Most important in elma is brane forecasting what will happen on the screen and keys being in familiar place in relation to eachother.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Ruben »

ville_j wrote:Maybe you don't have the search feature enabled on eolconf. You know when you are browsing levels you can use your keyboard to type and quickly jump to certain level file. Changing elma keys is not really that simple, you know how important it is to know the controls so well you could play blindfolded. My brake alias is not unusable, it is actually very usable 99.9% of the time but every once in a while someone thinks it's a good idea to make a brake-volt start and that's when it's almost unusable. Even jblaze has brake alias on x, that proves that it's the right choice.

A bit similar dilemma I have with default ground/sky and high/low details and/or highq.lgr. Would be nice to have different ground textures and see pictures, but every once in a while someone thinks headbanger mode is good or making weird masking. Again, if you really think that's important for the level and you think you absolutely have to have brick and ground combo then feel free to do it but it just ruins the playability for many people.
I do have the search function on, but it only works while holding down ctrl, so it's not an issue.

When it comes to masking, I always use sky as sky, just because every other combo makes my eyes bleed. I also have pictures in the back, because obsuring the bike is just super annoying. People can make horrible brick/stone combos all they want, I just won't play. You'll probably not play voltstarts, but it's a really big disadvantage in cups. Both of these things are fixable in config, so it's a very non-issue.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by ville_j »

Yes of course it is not important what the keys are if the layout is the same, I also play with laptop numpad occasionally np. Well it is a bit hard to find the keys in the dark if they are some random ones in the middle of the keyboard. But that's not a big problem if you don't need to constantly move hands and fingers to weird positions just to be able to do a volt-start.

Anyways, this has nothing to do with egp. All these problems could be solved by editing eol.exe, but at the moment it is too limited. "Fixing" them on eolconf comes with a price that affects the eol experience daily so it's not a proper solution either. While these might be non-issues for you they are very important for me. Most of the time everything's nice and smooth, but that one time you come across this kind of level.. all hell breaks loose.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Madness »

ville_j wrote:
Madness wrote:If you use arrows:
1) Ring finger -> up arrow
2) Index finger -> left arrow
3) Middle finger -> enter
I use index finger to left volt and middle finger to gas. I really don't want to go through these little tricks. As I said I rather choose not to do it and get a disadvantage even though I very well could be doing it.
That's like saying "I hold the steering wheel with my right hand so I can't change gears". Wtf... :D

As for the brake alias, I recommend you change it to left alt. It's close to x, so it shouldn't be a problem to get used to.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Lousku »

Forgot this problem exists after putting brake to LCTRL. It feels like a non-problem since you have a billion keys on your keyboard for bind choices. And lev design shouldn't need to compromise for bad setups.

But at the same time, it does take an annoying transition period to get used to new buttons. This multiplied by every kuski is a lot of combined suffering. Also, it usually isn't crucial for lev quality to have that kind of start, so you might as well make it a relaxed start to accommodate bad setups. It just "wastes" some fraction of a second on each run.
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by ville_j »

I see for some people it is probably impossible to understand what the deal is. If you don't want to optimize your routine then that's fine, but after all these years I've spent playing this game I do want to make it as smooth as possible. I wouldn't call it a bad setup when it works flawlessly and is natural for me 99% of the time; it's the best setup I can come up with. When I started using brake alias I really thought through what suits me the best and it's this one. I have esc alias on z so I don't really need to move hands at all when playing. And yes, level doesn't need to compromise to suit some certain setup but in this case it is hardly ever compromising anything. But it's not a level design flaw per se, it's the combination of that and the poor usability of the exe.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Orcc »

Ruben wrote:
ville_j wrote:That's all true of course and if you really think that's the kind of a start a level has to have in your opinion then you can ofc make it. I don't want anyone to make a level and leave important stuff out just because someone isn't going to like it, the point is more to raise awareness of this syndrome I have and what's causing it. But quite objectively said the egp level I am talking about would not have really been any different without the push start, it just is there and does absolutely nothing except causes a stress but if that's the whole point then it is very good. It probably wastes more time than a non-push start because need to place hands and fingers and probably esc more because of it. And yes I do agree that I deserve worse results if I won't go through the same troubles as other people go through just because I want to live a smoother life. I have learned to accept my illness and how it affects my everyday life and weakens my performance but it doesn't stop me from participating in egp. Some people have to live with a cancer too.
That's the edge Orcc has on you, isn't it xD
Well axxually I have been complaining about these starts for a looong time. Not because of ville_j-type finger control disorder, but my laptop keyboard, which simply doesn't allow me to press enter with certain multi-button starts. For example I can't press left rotate and throttle at the start of the lev. It gives you quite a handicap in höylä levs. I've tried ~all the locations of the keyboard to move the keys, but even the best working keys don't work in all key combinations. Maybe if I could setup enter alias to a random key it could work.

So yes, get the fakc rid of lev starts with many simultaneous keys, it's not hard to design a good start without them.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Lousku »

ville_j wrote:I see for some people it is probably impossible to understand what the deal is. If you don't want to optimize your routine then that's fine, but after all these years I've spent playing this game I do want to make it as smooth as possible. I wouldn't call it a bad setup when it works flawlessly and is natural for me 99% of the time; it's the best setup I can come up with.
This mayke no sense! If you're willing to adjust to new better buttons, why nat set brake to a button that eliminates this problem?
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by ville_j »

Because my hand and fingers feel awkward if I put to other buttons!
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Ruben »

Lousku wrote:Forgot this problem exists after putting brake to LCTRL. It feels like a non-problem since you have a billion keys on your keyboard for bind choices. And lev design shouldn't need to compromise for bad setups.

But at the same time, it does take an annoying transition period to get used to new buttons. This multiplied by every kuski is a lot of combined suffering. Also, it usually isn't crucial for lev quality to have that kind of start, so you might as well make it a relaxed start to accommodate bad setups. It just "wastes" some fraction of a second on each run.
When you go out of your way to make a stressful experience, it's quite counterproductive to make "relaxing" levs. There are a few principles I stick to when making EGP levels, that admittedly don't all fit normal battle or cup levels. It also kinda went out the window for EGP3:

1. The levels should be easy to finish and hard to perfect. However, a pseudo-perfect run should be possible within a short timespan.

2. Hoyling starts at 00:00:00. By this I mean there there is no room whatsoever between hitting enter and starting to hoyl. No waiting around, holding gas for five seconds etc.

3. Give the kuskis something to do:

3a. If you think about it, given how short the levels are, you really cannot spend much time doing nothing, the solution is simply cramming a lot of moves and adjustments into a very small space. That means either a lot of speed, or very tight levels.

3b. Change direction often, it forces people to think thoroughly about what moves to make, and it breaks up the look of the level, making it feel more interesting even if the moves are relatively simple.

3c. Avoid long polygons unless they serve a very specific purpose. There are better ways of getting speed that doesn't force the kuski to sit and hold gas for an eternity (>2 seconds count as an eternity). I intentially broke this rule for one level in EGP1, but notice that the ground is not just "straight."

4. Ez better. Although this failed when mans found very hard great styles that I didn't see at all.

5. Make it look pretty.

If you do this you'll get a good collection of good looking, thickly paked, yet small levels. Coupled with short battletimes it'll make for a very stressful contest. Obviously, in a cruise FF these rules are not so great, and that's why I find levmaking so interesting in this game, much more so than in any other game.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Ruben »

Orcc wrote:
Ruben wrote:
ville_j wrote:That's all true of course and if you really think that's the kind of a start a level has to have in your opinion then you can ofc make it. I don't want anyone to make a level and leave important stuff out just because someone isn't going to like it, the point is more to raise awareness of this syndrome I have and what's causing it. But quite objectively said the egp level I am talking about would not have really been any different without the push start, it just is there and does absolutely nothing except causes a stress but if that's the whole point then it is very good. It probably wastes more time than a non-push start because need to place hands and fingers and probably esc more because of it. And yes I do agree that I deserve worse results if I won't go through the same troubles as other people go through just because I want to live a smoother life. I have learned to accept my illness and how it affects my everyday life and weakens my performance but it doesn't stop me from participating in egp. Some people have to live with a cancer too.
That's the edge Orcc has on you, isn't it xD
Well axxually I have been complaining about these starts for a looong time. Not because of ville_j-type finger control disorder, but my laptop keyboard, which simply doesn't allow me to press enter with certain multi-button starts. For example I can't press left rotate and throttle at the start of the lev. It gives you quite a handicap in höylä levs. I've tried ~all the locations of the keyboard to move the keys, but even the best working keys don't work in all key combinations. Maybe if I could setup enter alias to a random key it could work.

So yes, get the fakc rid of lev starts with many simultaneous keys, it's not hard to design a good start without them.
This is a much more understandable standpoint. Being used to non-retarded Mac keyboards I've never come across this issue, so I wasn't aware of it until you complained during EGP2. It's still quite annoying that you have to keep these things in mind, because it does limit variety quite a lot in short levs. And yes, I will always be an advocate of (non-shitty) short levs.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Lousku »

There are much longer sections of doing nothing in EGP levels than the length of start pause that would be necessary to eliminate Idiot System coordinated team nabbing.
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Sla »

Ive played several years with an old keyboard wich didnt allow me to do just 1 combination (brake+left and then press gas quickly). I thought that was oke, just one little combination. But then i bought an antighosting keyboard and i can do every single combination. I agree those starts sometimes are a bit annoying yes, sometimes i get into Replay cuz i dont press arrows before esc or dying. But at the same time, those starts gives speed and depends on wich lev, fun.
What i want to say is, some of us have been playing the game for more than 10 years, do u really want to ask all elma players to not make this kind of starts? Are u going to complain about every lev where you/your keyboard doesnt allow u to make it well?
I really like this game, so i wont just give up trying to play it as good as i can just because nowadays keyboards are not made to play games, but just to write with one or two keys at the same time.
If you have Fast search on eolcfg, you will have the start problem if you set a common key for alias brake, try with other keys.
If you still having problems pressing more than two keys, i recommed any antighosting keyboard. Play Elma without restrictions no matter what lev you play!
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by BlaZtek »

[/quote]Ruben:
Just use alias brake. Need it for hilling anyway (unless you're doing some weird thing where you have both hands on arrow keys) and it's nifty in a few other situations as well, so I don't understand why people don't use it.[/quote]

Need for hilling? I use down arrow for brake as forever and I can hill. o,o I don't use brake alias because never knew the benefit for it or where I should put it.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Ruben »

BlaZtek wrote:Need for hilling? I use down arrow for brake as forever and I can hill. o,o I don't use brake alias because never knew the benefit for it or where I should put it.
For people who can hit both up and down arrow with same finger simultaniously it's probably not necessary anywhere else but start. But on my keyboard doing that is really awkward, so alias works great. I got it on z and alo on x.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by axxu »

Right hand middle finger on gas, index finger on left volt, ring finger on right volt, thumb on break. If need to press gas + break + left volt in beginning like freefall for ex. then ez to press numpad enter with pinkyfinger. All problems solved without any alias keys o,o expect that problem where cannot press too many buttons at same time, this is fixed by better keyboard.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Madness »

axxu wrote:Right hand middle finger on gas, index finger on left volt, ring finger on right volt, thumb on break. If need to press gas + break + left volt in beginning like freefall for ex. then ez to press numpad enter with pinkyfinger. All problems solved without any alias keys o,o expect that problem where cannot press too many buttons at same time, this is fixed by better keyboard.
I do it a similar way. Index finger on left volt, middle finger on brake, ring finger on gas and pinky on right volt (pressing brake with the side of my thumb sounds uncomfortable to me). It's quite funny to see people struggling to work out how to press 4 or even less buttons with 5 fingers and having to use an extra button for that...
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Ruben »

I got tiny arrow keys and no numpad, so alias is very nice.
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Re: Elma Grand Prix 3 - RESULTS POSTED

Post by Hosp »

Orcc first made me realize how bad these starts are so nowadays i always try to make levels where at least doesn't have to do anything in the first second, sach annoy brake starts gaaah
Also upiking can be done with default key setup (Alo on A thou), never have i ever put 2 hands on arrow keys wtf
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