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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 12:23 
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Hot kuski
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Introduction

Final video made by ics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv1RPp7LvcI
First rec that we used as a starting point: http://www.recsource.tv/r/axzpwcbfyh

Some people have been asking for more information about the lab pro rec. I initially wanted to make a post with all information turned out it was too much information for a single post so I started making a pdf but I gave up after writing many pages and not being nearly done. Here is a log of events and some information in lauta post instead if someone wants to read who did what and why.

It was extremely interesting to work with zamppe he has so many crazy ideas and I kept being surprised at how casually he presents some 1s faster style. It took me like half a year to adjust, what I felt was perfect was constantly crushed by his inventions and ideas. osv

The start of the project (Chatlog)

<zamppe> im boss fuk yeah osv osv osv
<zamppe> fin d 0.1 faster style for lab pro saveloading !
<zamppe> im started labpro saveload project
<zamppe> 1.3 ahead of amp now at 1:02
<bene> wow very nice project
<bene> much to fi nd osv
<zamppe> hmm i have pervert idia
<bene> gross
<zamppe> we make lab pro under 2:00 legit
<zamppe> project for 1 years
<zamppe> nobody else know and present it in fem17
<bene> brilliant
<zamppe> so i gues in next days il try to make first iteration with some 2:03:75-2:04:25
<zamppe> then just need to improve 4 secs easypeasy right

Event log in next post because limits to post length.

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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 12:24 
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Hot kuski
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(Shampoo is chainpop, name invented by zamppe and very oke name for trik)

Happenings

Code:
  Date          Happening
  -----        ------------
2016-08-01     zamppe gets an idea to start playing lab pro to get 2:04
2016-08-01     zamppe finds a new style at 35 38 seconds that cuts 0.3
2016-08-01     zamppe gets an idea that could make millions. Make lab pro under 2 minutes in 1 year and present replay in FEM2017, all done in secrecy. Zamppe needs someone else to join the projekt now to dodge lunacy. Zamppe presents the idea to bene, because bene is very determined and ultra höyler, just what zamppe needs
2016-08-01     bene joins the lunatik projektik
2016-08-04     zamppe finishes 2.04.54
2016-08-05     zamppe sends .dat file of 2.04.54 to bene, hoping that bene will do all the hard work
2016-08-10     bene finds new spot for 30fps wheelpopping before 4th apple that saves 0.2-0.3
2016-08-15     bene finds new spot for 30fps wheelpopping before 5th apple that saves 0.3-0.4
2016-08-17     zamppe finds new style in start that saves 0.1-0.5 and works with low fps only
2016-08-20     zamppe drives 13.85 first apple
2016-08-21     bene improves zamppes 13.85 to 13.73 with höyl
2016-08-25     bene finds second wheelpop in start and drives a rec for zamppe to do startleap with
2016-08-25     zamppe does 13.67 apple with sick startleap complete with wheelpop
2016-08-25     bene höyls start down to 13.5x
2016-09-09     zamppe does bounce after first apple
2016-09-09     bene does double pop after bounce and drives to 2nd apple
2016-09-10     zamppe does 37.72 third apple, not satisfied and says 36.99 is cool
2016-09-10     bene thinks we need 36.99 third apple because zamppe was not satisfied. bene becomes unmotivated
2016-09-xx     zamppe starts höyling int07 and fuks lab pro project
2016-12-12     bene finds new spot for 30fps wheelpopping, at the end of 25s loop, saves 0.05. Bene hopes this will get project to 36.99 started again
2016-12-18     zamppe drives bounce and wants bene to do an impossible hang to third apple with pops
2016-12-18     bene says huopalahti to zamppe because impsy hang. zamppe replies karvalakki
2016-12-26     bene finds new style for mid, saves 0.4. Bene no longer has to do impossible hang with pops. bene gets a thumbsup from zamppe because very very good loking
2016-12-29     zamppe does 37.08 third apple with insane hang to third apple. We just beat 32tt project 2:00,03 rec to 3rd apple
2016-12-29     zamppe regrets strength of bounce after first apple. We decide to ask Madness to judge it
2016-12-30     Madness replies and says it is acceptable. Bene says he plays lab pro on his own. Madness wonders if bene will do wr and bene says he will likely do wr. zamppe thinks it is funny "leading anp 5 secs ye i ink i can wr not 100% sure but ye i tink so"
2016-12-31     bene drives 13.69 warm up with shampooing that he learned in lab pro
2017-01-07     zamppe drives 1:02,89 to 4th apple. bene says "???? our target is 1:03,50". bene realizes 36.99 was not needed for targets. zamppe used a new style for zigzag that saved 0.5
2017-01-07     bene drives 1:02,41 with shampooing
2017-01-11     zamppe decides to waste time and finish level. Time is 2:01,94
2017-01-17     bene does a wheelpop before zigzag
2017-01-17     zamppe drives 1:02,20 to 4th apple. Wheelpop by bene was not fast but helped to drive zigzag 0.7 faster because could accidentally alovolt and dodge corners smoothly
2017-01-18     bene does wheelpop after zigzag hang when landing that saves 0.15
2017-01-18     zamppe drives part bene landing pop up to shampooing spot because bene is bad and can't do it himself
2017-01-18     bene drives 1:01,65 to 4th apple with shampooing. We just beat 32tt project 2:00,03 rec to 4th apple
2017-01-19     zamppe decides to waste time again and finishes 2:01,00 actually 2:00,92 but he forgot to save dat and refused to go rename autosaved dat and couldn't beat that finish
2017-01-19     bene drives shampooing at 5th apple which is complete waste of time
2017-01-20     zamppe completely ignores bene wasted effort to shampoo at 5th apple and drives a new rec from 4th apple
2017-01-20     bene shampoos again at 5th apple
2017-01-20     zamppe finishes 1:59,84 and is bad and used wrong and slower dat
2017-01-20     we decide to ask Madness about bounce to 5th apple. He refuses to judge without full rec. Madness still doesn't know it is a collab effort and thinks bene is playing by himself
2017-01-21     zamppe experiments with end and drives 1:59,75 still with incorrect and slower dat
2017-01-21     bene finds shampooing after 5th apple in roof feels more playable than on floor that we used in 1:59,75 rec
2017-01-22     we decide to redrive rec from zigzag land because 1:59,75 rec is rushed and uses incorrect dat
2017-01-22     bene improves wheelpop at zigzag landing by accidentally doing a second wheelpop during the landing that saves 0.05
2017-01-24     bene sucks and can't drive 1s segment after wheelpoping. Zamppe drives a dat that sets up for shampooing
2017-01-25     zamppe and bene discusses flaws in current rec and potentially if we should replay or not and from where
2017-01-25     bene realizes that you can't gain anything from shampooing it is complete unhoylable trick. It is either ultra slow (but faster than not doing it) or ultra fast. Nothing in between
2017-01-28     Start of 55s spot depression. 1:59,75 rec had better bike state after poops and need to solve
2017-01-28     Drive current iteration of using two wheelpops, one before and one after 55s spot. As fast as bene was able to with the shampoo we had
2017-01-28     zamppe shares more recs before shampoo that bene should try to see if better bike state
2017-01-30     can't lock onto in
2017-01-30     fun around reading old lauta lab pro guesses and tell culinko to make new guesses mostly to eye his lab pro guess
2017-01-30     we make our own 31tt guess table. But can't share it because it would include 1:56 guess for lab pro
2017-02-02     zamppe drives 10 more recs before shampoo that bene should try to see if better bike state
2017-02-04     After 2 more days of misery not managing anything because 55s spot we decide to use first rec and zamppe drives 4th apple
2017-02-05     zamppe drives above flower part so we have mergerec
2017-02-05     testing idiot ideas above flower because 2.04 rec is maybe not fast. It is weird spot gotta try all
2017-02-11     zamppe tests random ideas with bouncing in loop after 4th apple
2017-02-11     bene has idiot idea for bouncing like 32tt rec and using shampoo in roof for extra speed that is required with legit bounce
2017-02-24     zamppe makes bounce where can poop in roof to push towards bounce towards 5th apple
2017-02-24     bene does as many poops as possible in roof with mega long shampoo
2017-02-25     zamppe does current style by ditching many of the poops in roof
2017-02-25     bene tries to poop on ^ shape before bounce and can save 0.05 from zamppe rec
2017-03-03     bene tries new bounce style to 5th apple. zamppe says good go play rest of lev so I don't have to
2017-03-03     bene finds new wheelpop trick. Can do pops with front wheel when braketrapping. Meaning you actually gain speed from braketapping http://www.recsource.tv/r/zkqwdfvaen
2017-03-04     zamppe uses benes bounce and idiot front wheel poop during braketap poop trick to finish 1:58,62
2017-03-04     bene experiments with end and drives 1:58,18 by adding shampooing in roof before end hill towards flower making bounce on that hill like 2.04 rec so easy it's poss for bene even
2017-03-04     bene and zamppe agrees to go back to 1:15 bounce after done experimenting because it is weak and driven by bene
2017-03-22     zamppe makes the 1:15 bounce and sends to bene now bene has to surive after bounce with pops
2017-03-22     bene gives up after hours of trying zamppe sends more bounce recs
2017-03-22     bene makes 0.40 lead rec with one of the bounce recs
2017-03-24     bene struggles with poop in cave after 5th apple for days. Nothing works
2017-03-27     bene makes poop in cave after 5th apple and zamppe is tasked to bounce
2017-03-27     zamppe makes bounce
2017-03-29     bene makes bounce at 6th apple that is cool and oke fast http://www.recsource.tv/r/enskgjxcwl
2017-03-30     bene finds new last apple style zamppe replies "woaaa sik awesome" and tries it right away
2017-03-30     zamppe says "what a horror pixel apple worst lev of al time i stop trying"
2017-03-30     bene finishes 1:56,99 because zamppe refuses to play
2017-04-01     bene finishes 1:56,78 end experimentation
2017-04-02     bene finishes 1:56,57 0.2 a day keeps zamppe away
2017-04-03     bene finishes 1:56,32 0.2 a day keeps zamppe away
2017-04-03     bene finishes 1:56,10 0.2 a day keeps zamppe away - oh wait its same day
2017-04-10     bene finishes 1:55,98 another 0.2 a day except it's a week later
2017-04-11     bene finishes 1:55,92 with more end experimentation
2017-06-11     zamppe finally does something and bounces at 6th apple faster completely negating all bene effort but its good because that bounce was buggy. zamppe says there is other style he wants to try
2017-06-20     zamppe makes final 6th apple bounce that it is possible to shampoo after and everything much faster
2017-06-20     bene shampoos after 6th apple for final rec
2017-06-21     zamppe makes bounce towards 7th apple and now bene has to make 7th apple style again
2017-06-21     bene manages making it after several hours of playing again
2017-06-25     bene improves 7th apple now final rec
2017-06-30     zamppe contributes with useless rec that we have no use for
2017-07-06     bene finishes 1:55,71 with end experimentation
2017-07-10     bene finishes 1:55,49 almost final rec
2017-07-16     bene wastes time and improves to 1:55,48 final rec

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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 15:55 
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Kuski
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Joined: 27 Jul 2003, 06:44
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Could you share 31tt guess table? Or is it poopfilled times?

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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 17:28 
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Hot kuski
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No I can't share it because it is incomplete (barely done) and yes it has poop times because why make some list of times that doesn't even follow the rules of the official table?

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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 18:08 
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Kuski
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ok, no problem.

could you mark the shampo times? i guess not every level poo positive

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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 19:42 
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Kuski
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spent 2 hours comparing shampo and zwek's normal rec, seems 2:00.xx is very possible without any pooing.


is that 2:01. rec public?

2017-01-11 zamppe decides to waste time and finish level. Time is 2:01,94


thanks!

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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 19:44 
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Kuski
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What makes shampooing less acceptabel than any other wheelpops?

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then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?


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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 19:46 
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Kuski
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reproducing factor of normal wheelpop live: 10,0%
reporducing factor of labpro shampooing live: 0,01% (if possible, cuz as a i heard that long wheelpop sequence is imposs live)

but thats my silly guess, educated benee can tell better

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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 19:57 
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Hot kuski
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Yes I can pull better numbers from my ass

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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 20:03 
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wheelpop is 100% if you just brake at the right time
shampo is 0% because you can't change between 30fps and 999fps (there most likely is some way to do it though)

anyway this is completely irrelevant because the table is for milasl not eol

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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 20:09 
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Kuski
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thanks for clarifying!

most likely i will be stoned for this, but i would recommend shampo and shampoless saveload tables :)

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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 20:26 
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Kuski
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I want a table with shampoo but no alo key, someone play ints like teh for my please, ty.

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then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?


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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 20:40 
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Kuski
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no you don't get it, but maby i'm just too noob to comprehend the superiority of some minds here..

me as a noob and perhaps an out-aged elma player think that SaveLoad table is like a representation of theoretically possible rides of internal levels, which at least THEORETICALLY POSSIBLE on internals. shampooing is not near like that. just like Zweq pointed it out for us, it is impossible in live mode (yea, this means that this point of view would invalide Tricks Abound as well) but i am still convinced and confident, that the two modes of saveloading are incomparable

as i highlighted many times shampooing is a freakin' great way of pushing out the limits of elma, and would be even more freakin' interesting to see whats possible on other levels (e.g. Uphill Battle, Labyrinth, Spiral, Upside Down, etc.)

i really appreciate the effort bene & zweq made in the last 1 year, no doubt! but the rudeness that I get for thinking about some principles differently is very disappointing. instead of starting discussion of it, you just behave like that....

thanks for reading.

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Last edited by Schumi on 6 Aug 2017, 20:42, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 20:41 
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shampoo bad becouse 0% due to fps change during ride to accord to zwek
otherwise intrigue story, thanks for good time


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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 21:16 
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Chainpops are theoretically possible without saveload as you don't have constant fps in Elma (= changing fps from 30 to 999 is theoretically possible - we just don't have the tools yet). Either way, you cannot have another table for WRs without wheel pops, because they are technically undetectable.

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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 21:30 
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Hot kuski
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You don't need to change fps to do chainpops. Changing fps makes it easier and faster. Faster being the reason fps change is abused in lab pro. Like 52s spot in rec I have driven with 38 fps only and it was 0.05 slower than the ride we have in final rec. 52s spot is a very easy spot to do the trick in and where I found them. I did not change fps like a madman when finding the trick I just tried one pop and saw that I could do another. Fps changing was realized much later when I was not able to do some pops in the chain that I wanted because I did not have the correct frame. If you practice you can probably make this spot oke fast live but it is super annoying to do and very hard.
Many other records use fps change mid run to make a better time this is exactly the same except it is done much more frequently.

When I tried to make it live I only managed 4 pops in a chain and it was slower. It was way too hard for me to do live.

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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 21:50 
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well it's quite hard to draw a line what is chainpop and what is not, i have made 4 wheelpops in 2.5 seconds in under03, is that chainpop? Imo chainpop means 30fps pop 999fps999fps999fps999fps999fps 30fps pop 999fps999fps999fps999fps999fps999fps 30fps pop

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PostPosted: 6 Aug 2017, 21:59 
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Hot kuski
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My 52s with 38 fps was 7 pops in under one second and it is the way I discovered the trik. To my it is just repeatedly pooping on the same edge several times. Under is not chain because you pop on different edges.

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PostPosted: 7 Aug 2017, 00:57 
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Sik storytelling, I'm glad that bene delivered as promised :beer: I wonder how many new tricks in Lab Pro are still undiscovered :D

Imo the only way to have a legit SL table without bugs and wheelpops is to have elma where all this shit is fixed and impsy to do. Also I don't think reproducibility should be a way to prove acceptability, anyone remembers Stini's pipe bounce recs? :twisted:

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PostPosted: 8 Aug 2017, 14:39 
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Kuski

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so chainpop is pop on same px but several pops in row is just several pops in a row?


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PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 06:41 
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Hot kuski
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ofta wrote:
so chainpop is pop on same px but several pops in row is just several pops in a row?

wat chainpop is several pops in a row on the same edge

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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 16:12 
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it should have been called springles because once you pop you cant stop HAHAHAHAH

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