History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

General discussion about the games and the scene.

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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by Abula » 31 Mar 2018, 20:08

milagros wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 20:03
it was done with darmoed's autoplay
wat?

You mean those videos are not by it? There were o&u, dhill, hiflyer and other perfect replays which looked like cheated. And "AVR" sounds like some extra system was used.

At least that Downhill is over 2 seconds faster than the contemporary WR (#300).
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by milagros » 31 Mar 2018, 20:26

Abula wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 20:08
There were o&u, dhill, hiflyer and other perfect replays which looked like cheated.
to my knowledge, they were cheated by using darmoed's autoplay
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by Abula » 31 Mar 2018, 21:42

milagros wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 20:26
Abula wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 20:08
There were o&u, dhill, hiflyer and other perfect replays which looked like cheated.
to my knowledge, they were cheated by using darmoed's autoplay
You are not very clear. I would like to know if those videos (300 AVR part 1 and 2) are the ones you are refering by "Coc0k" and "darmoed's autoplay"?

I checked the WR history and found only a few suspicios WRs before 2011-06-23 and after 2008.

Hi Flyer 0:30,22 by ap (#295): classic SL level, only WR by him, from politically controversial country making it tempting to be discredited and from a country which is better known by technological devices than Elma WRs

Expert System #317 and Framework #321 by romy4: Apart from Jappe2, does any real player really include number 4 in the nick name? His only WRs and both look hard new styles. In addition the Framework replay has a suspicios ... hm, is it public? The five years limit has passed so: there is a fuck-up in the end which could try to hide the fact it's too perfect.

Well the point was not trying to hunt them down but they are interesting piece of history :). I'm not willing to fix anything at least :D
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by milagros » 1 Apr 2018, 00:48

Abula wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 21:42
You are not very clear. I would like to know if those videos (300 AVR part 1 and 2) are the ones you are refering by "Coc0k" and "darmoed's autoplay"?
yes
Abula wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 21:42
I checked the WR history and found only a few suspicios WRs before 2011-06-23 and after 2008.
Coc0k's replays were not sent to the table and he declared them to be driven with darm's cheat I think
i don't think ap or romy4's wrs are suspicious
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by Grace » 1 Apr 2018, 05:55

I forgot about ap :) I seem to recall it's a fake nick from some other pro? There's probably some discussion about it on lauta from around the time of the WR table.

romy4 is legitimate. He's part of the russian community and is/was a very good player + stylefinder.

@Abula here is the post where Coc0k published 300 AVR part 1 to community. Again, it's an interesting read, particularly how the strong and very active internalists at the time condemn it.

For a large part of the community there were quite a few new styles shown off in these new vids (first time BB shown with this route, although bad style), and I wouldn't be surprised if Zweq/anp etc. were so hostile in response to that first video because they were quietly holding some styles until they drove WR with them.

Coc0k never tried to suggest they were legit though, he said they were fake pretty quickly.
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by sunl » 1 Apr 2018, 08:20

Abula wrote:
29 Mar 2018, 19:07
Does someone have the "29.rec" which bene mentioned as an example where head goes through the wall (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9349#p243679)? Not very easy filename to search for.
I made this challenge level which uses the concept

http://www.recsource.tv/r/auwdxqrgms

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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by sunl » 1 Apr 2018, 08:24

milagros wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 19:20
Abula wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 17:20
It sounds like impossible amount of work to play long levels like DarMoeD did and even new WCup levels etc.
less than playing normally
darmoed was quite decent, i guess he would get normal wrs too, if he didnt cheat

Way before 32tt project, there were many wrs beaten and new styles found with darmoed's autoplay in russian/ukrainen community - most recs driven by C0C0k (or how was his nick spelled). For example o&u, downhill, haircut. Recs are probably somewhere on youtube.
I had this in my table of best replays: http://www.recsource.tv/r/jthgiwkesp

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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by FinMan » 1 Apr 2018, 13:50

I have a feeling you have to ask more precisely who drove the "coc0k recs". Other russians were involved imo and romy4 was a style finding monster i heard. dunno where to find reliable info about this.
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by Abula » 1 Apr 2018, 15:34

FinMan wrote:
1 Apr 2018, 13:50
I have a feeling you have to ask more precisely who drove the
Yes I removed that part. Thanks everybody giving more info. It was a tough task to keep it balanced, honest and fair but we will see. Text can be fixed luckily. But I'm afraid if someone actually will bother to read this. 400k chars passed, Bible has 3.6M so over 10 % of Bible written, quite insane, we have been too productive!
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by Abula » 1 Apr 2018, 15:49

Actually one more question about SL: what is this "hand animation" thing? Some of the patches included different hand animation? Whose? Anyone got caught by this method? Any other known SL patches than mila's and Smibu's?
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by Abula » 1 Apr 2018, 23:12

* http://kopasite.net/up/0/TRICKY2.lev
* http://kopasite.net/up/1/tricky2clSL.rec

"Saveload patch was interestingly used to finish some old and very hard unfinished levels. For example <em>TRICKY2.lev</em> is a good example of a failed start position. The level designer most likely forgot to move the start to the correct place after testing the level. The level was created in 1998-09-23 and it was finished in 2014-11-24 by culinko."

I can't get this working with Maxdamantus replay viewer, probably because it's an across level. Does anyone have a good example of Elma level of this kind? I find it interesting when SL was used this way, to finish a level which was once doomed to be impossible because of a level desining accident.
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by sunl » 2 Apr 2018, 06:56

Here is the level file and replay file converted from Across to Elma format
Attachments
tricky2bcSL.rec
(172.43 KiB) Downloaded 9 times
TRICKY2b.lev
(2.59 KiB) Downloaded 11 times

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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by Abula » 2 Apr 2018, 09:59

Fantastic! Thanks!
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by magicman » 2 Apr 2018, 10:01

Zweq wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 21:23

WCup312 designer, it says "iDeAs wcup lvl" in the level name, was there a kuski called iDeA ?
Not the best level but was max jealous when he got a level in the World cup!
iDeA is my neighbor from childhood times, we were in teams like IA (Innersjö Acrossers) and UA (Umeå Acrossers, mengerles team).
We had some epic competition in internal levels, among with CoLiC and eDDe and my brother: Klumpen.
We met meng irl back in 2001`? Saw him pwning Uphill Battle and went through his massive movie/serie collection he had on hundreds of burnt CDs, after that we went in to town and his friend bought me and iDeA some beer from systembolaget.

I did Elma Rap by Anton vs Simon with iDeA(Anton), should be mentioned somewhere in the article imo :)

Sorry for off-topics.
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by Abula » 2 Apr 2018, 13:36

magicman wrote:
2 Apr 2018, 10:01
I did Elma Rap by Anton vs Simon with iDeA(Anton), should be mentioned somewhere in the article imo :)
Covered!

Code: Select all

Good songs of the era in Elma Ultimate DVD:

* 2000-04-08: Community > Audio > Songs      > InnersjMCAntonvsSimon.wav
...
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Zero » 2 Apr 2018, 16:49

How well have you covered the every day battling scene in EOL? It covers the biggest part of the community activity after all looking at the played hours and amount of players.

Battle level designerc etc could be mentioned. And the variety of the popular battling mode. Can also compare irc battles to eol battles and the differences in the levels over time.

Also rivalries such as Bjenn & Madness, adi & Markku
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by milagros » 2 Apr 2018, 16:56

Zero wrote:
2 Apr 2018, 16:49
How well have you covered the every day battling scene in EOL?
i guess it is hard to write if you were not part of it. The same, when it comes to any other part of the history. I would not be able to write about across times 95-99 either.
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by ArZeNiK » 2 Apr 2018, 18:07

btw 1rd april is already passed you can fix teh front page of moposit abu
this signature is just as useful as elma in my life

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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 2 Apr 2018, 19:00

There's a lot of battle material but of course not that much passion because .. as mila said. Personally I see battles as a training area for internals like all other contests too. I don't value the number of hours used but progression and new creations. But I will consider the feedback of course when it's time for that. Battles (and all other contests) are important for the players involved but who werent't present (most of the readers, even most of the community) it's not interesting. But there are like 20 pages of battling stuff so don't worry :)

Update: for me community = all people who have played Elma for years (sometimes during 1997-2018), experienced the community and still think that Elma rocks :). Not just the players who are playing now. Actually many have never played a single battle or like 10-50 battles because that was not the thing back in the days. Still we played a lot and did things.
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by ArZeNiK » 2 Apr 2018, 19:19

cool and good osv but you didnt change the header back from TEH ARTICLE
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by ArZeNiK » 2 Apr 2018, 19:21

now it's not in 1 row like it was befoar
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by ArZeNiK » 2 Apr 2018, 19:22

now is good
thancc
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 2 Apr 2018, 19:23

ok thancc osv

but let's not make this a chat thancc osv
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by ArZeNiK » 2 Apr 2018, 19:25

ok good osv
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by bene » 5 Apr 2018, 07:57

Abula wrote:
29 Mar 2018, 19:07
Does someone have the "29.rec" which bene mentioned as an example where head goes through the wall (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9349#p243679)? Not very easy filename to search for.
This would be http://www.recsource.tv/r/bykdgelvri which is the final rec for headbanger in the tas of elma video. "29.rec" is a false name because I don't know why.
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by bene » 5 Apr 2018, 08:05

Abula wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 21:42
Apart from Jappe2, does any real player really include number 4 in the nick name?
I'm a real player and I really included the number 4 in my nick name when I was nicking Ben3eeE for a long time.

Seriously though. romy4 is his real name/irl nick name? It's how mans with name Roma are called by friends everywhere in rus 4 looks similar to rus Ч letter and is pronounced as "ch".
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by Zero » 5 Apr 2018, 09:04

bene wrote:
5 Apr 2018, 08:05
Abula wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 21:42
Apart from Jappe2, does any real player really include number 4 in the nick name?
Seriously though. romy4 is his real name/irl nick name? It's how mans with name Roma are called by friends everywhere in rus 4 looks similar to rus Ч letter and is pronounced as "ch".
Yeah. Nekit always called him Romych in Skype group calls.

I think his times are legit. He was good at externals and internals alike. Smart playing all around
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 6 Apr 2018, 17:46

Cool shit! I really should learn the cyrillics but I've been postoning it until going there first time (it's under planning). Ben3bee isn't same because the 3 mimics "e", maybe for practical reasons (Benebee was already taken) or for coolness reasons. romy4 just didn't make sense until knowing this linguistic aspect.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by bene » 6 Apr 2018, 17:50

Ben3eeE is from a friend back in my teenager years. I've always been called bene by everyone and he would randomly yell BEN 3 EEEE when excited about something and wanting to tell me about it. I found it extremely funny and started nicking it :bear:
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 7 Apr 2018, 15:25

Anyone has a decent replay to reach the secret area in Bowling? I've got only a bad one and I think this level has the most interesting route to go there but no one wants to watch a 3 minutes replay.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by bene » 7 Apr 2018, 16:34

Abula wrote:
7 Apr 2018, 15:25
Anyone has a decent replay to reach the secret area in Bowling? I've got only a bad one and I think this level has the most interesting route to go there but no one wants to watch a 3 minutes replay.
Found http://kopasite.net/up/s6kpxi9kb6lf4gf/46zsecret.rec in my rec folder pretty oke fast zweq rec for reaching secret area
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 7 Apr 2018, 22:11

Hah, that was max! Thanks
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 8 Apr 2018, 10:37

I haven't updated in a while but all chapters are written minus Afterword and Bonus (one night needed there). I'm spell-checking now but there are still several other small tasks left. I'm trying to find pre-readers atm (I'll ask you). "secret fm article pre-release gala" has been scheduled. I'm pretty sure the article will see the Mopolauta release in April.

Age of EOL took 169h, you have been damn active and productive.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by ArZeNiK » 8 Apr 2018, 10:41

wow najs
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Re: Article: Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by jaytea » 8 Apr 2018, 14:08

Zweq wrote:
25 Feb 2018, 09:49
I'm more thinking stuf like random example: 24.24 jaytea precarious, in theory it could have a 0.1 faster move prev unknown with shitty playing because jaytea. Everyone assumes everything is known because it's worse time than SL record 23.xx or current legit WR
sorry but this is a truly stupid example. i am o̶n̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ the greatest höyla the world has ever seen; my ride was perfect and the best possible ride with styles known at the time.
im pretty good at elma

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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by jaytea » 8 Apr 2018, 14:12

HOWEVER, i am also a masterful stylefinder and it is highly likely that i developed new moves in my quest for the wr.

therefore your comment was somewhat reasonable.
im pretty good at elma

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Re: Article: Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by jaytea » 8 Apr 2018, 14:17

Abula wrote:
4 Mar 2018, 00:03
As it will be obvious in Belma Period, Markku beat jaytea in battles.
Markku was a worthy adversary, but i got exponentially better after that month and eventually retired as the greatest battler in the history of the planet. belma was the death of battles. bring back IRC battling.
im pretty good at elma

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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 12 Apr 2018, 19:43

Oke, first pre-reader got it. Let's hope he can finish it in a week. I'll try to find a few more.

Image

Code: Select all

      Briefly
      Article history
      Disclaimer
      Introduction
   I. Across Days              (1997 Feb - 2000 Feb)
  II. Prelude to Elma          (2000 Feb - 2001 Jul)
 III. Golden Era               (2001 Jul - 2007 Jan)
  IV. Belma Period             (2007 Jan - 2010 Jul)
   V. Age of EOL               (2010 Jul -         )
      Final Results
      Utopia
      Conclusion
      Bonus
      Afterword
      Comments
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Hosp » 12 Apr 2018, 19:57

stoke stoke stoke (in bold)
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Tisk » 14 Apr 2018, 15:38

Pre-readed article. Only took like 10 hours.

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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 22 Apr 2018, 08:51

I will publish the article today in four hours at 12:00 UTC (Moposite time). I've made five levels dedicated for the article which will be played today in EOL. Also the leikki levels are already running as well.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 22 Apr 2018, 13:05

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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Smibu » 22 Apr 2018, 14:40

article wrote:Nicolas programmed the first version of ALE in 2003. Smibu adopted the popular project in 2009.
Some feedback about this:

* I didn't really adopt ALE (Elmanager does not use ALE's code at all). I wrote SLE from scratch. I definitely copied some ideas from ALE.
* Might be worth mentioning the editor name "SLE" at least once.
* I published the first version of SLE on 15 August 2010. At first it was unnamed but I named it on 23 December 2010.

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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Zweq » 22 Apr 2018, 18:13

amazing contribution, didn't read everything yet, maby 20%. I felt like saveload gak was a bit incomplete, or maybe I missed stuff because I moved on quickly (i still spent 2h holy :cow:)

I felt like these are worth mentioning in saveload section:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q79YKh6fEbU here i followed a special method of building levels around the autoplay/rec, generated 100% impsy recs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXTR4kJvDzs some spin gak
http://kopasite.net/up/9fd8hq4m487kg65/14XIITBANSL.rec an answer to the ancient question is it possible to get on loop-de-loop top, the answer is yes, with 2 styles
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by ArZeNiK » 22 Apr 2018, 18:15

Zweq wrote:
22 Apr 2018, 18:13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXTR4kJvDzs some spin gak
moszat did not sl iirc, at least he doesnt say that anywhere
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by bene » 23 Apr 2018, 08:32

Haven't read everything just searched for "bene" to check if there are any errors or mistakes there because easy for me to check and found one:
Spinboost was used first time in the start of Bumpy Journey by Bene in WR table #376 (2014-08-15) sunl pushed the trick to a new level.
Correction: Spinboost is not used in that WR. It is faster to do spinboost here because it allows the last volt in the start to be alovolt but it's only been finished slower than wr. This saves like 0.05s to spinboost at most so nat ez wr with it.

I discovered this spinboost start after the post by sunl explaining spinboost.

The spinboost start also allows for playing wtih a higher fps which makes mid faster and end easier so there might be more time to save with this trick because of the higher fps.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 23 Apr 2018, 17:51

Smibu wrote:
22 Apr 2018, 14:40
* Might be worth mentioning the editor name "SLE" at least once.
Oh, sorry! Actually I had SLE there at one point but then I thought Elmanager = SLE but apparently not so could you elaborate what's the difference between those? The screenshot of Elmanager looks like it's also a level editor. So are there two editors or is Elmanager a new name of SLE?
40:02,71 (104.) | WCup4: 8. | 3x WR | 3x GAA | 9x FEM | KOM | Article | UPLOAD

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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Smibu » 23 Apr 2018, 18:07

SLE is a part of Elmanager. So Elmanager = Replay manager + Replay viewer + Level manager + SLE. The screenshots in the homepage are from SLE, Replay viewer and Replay manager.

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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 23 Apr 2018, 18:10

Zweq wrote:
22 Apr 2018, 18:13
I felt like these are worth mentioning in saveload section:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q79YKh6fEbU here i followed a special method of building levels around the autoplay/rec, generated 100% impsy recs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXTR4kJvDzs some spin gak
http://kopasite.net/up/9fd8hq4m487kg65/14XIITBANSL.rec an answer to the ancient question is it possible to get on loop-de-loop top, the answer is yes, with 2 styles
Thanks! Hadn't seen Spinvids. Added it to Zweqspin chapter because it's not said to be SL. Also added this special method level, didn't know this fact.

When 14XIITBANSL.rec was driven?
40:02,71 (104.) | WCup4: 8. | 3x WR | 3x GAA | 9x FEM | KOM | Article | UPLOAD

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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 23 Apr 2018, 18:14

bene wrote:
23 Apr 2018, 08:32
Correction: Spinboost is not used in that WR.
But you gas the first 0.2sec to make it to spin faster? Zweq didn't do that. You did it without knowing it?
40:02,71 (104.) | WCup4: 8. | 3x WR | 3x GAA | 9x FEM | KOM | Article | UPLOAD

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