History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Hosp » 23 Apr 2018, 18:14

pretty sure the spinvid was SL when i asked moszat many yers ago but my memory might have failed me
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 23 Apr 2018, 18:20

Smibu wrote:
23 Apr 2018, 18:07
SLE is a part of Elmanager. So Elmanager = Replay manager + Replay viewer + Level manager + SLE. The screenshots in the homepage are from SLE, Replay viewer and Replay manager.
Great! It's fixed now.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 23 Apr 2018, 18:21

Hosp wrote:
23 Apr 2018, 18:14
pretty sure the spinvid was SL when i asked moszat many yers ago but my memory might have failed me
If someone has better memory or can even ask him, please!
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Zweq » 23 Apr 2018, 18:46

14XIITBANSL was driven 15th may 2013. However the very first rek to the top of loop de loop was driven 24 july 2010 in some incomplete version of milaSL http://kopasite.net/up/9s3xw2ax31anpg1/14ztop.rec dunno if it's interesting though.


btw I'm building quite hefty list of corrections to the article, but it's such a long article that I have no idea how long it's gonna take :S So far I've gone through 20% of V. age of eol and listed 29 factual corrections, typos or grammar corrections. I have no idea if I'm doing a useless job but it's kiiinda fun)
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Zweq » 23 Apr 2018, 19:04

I think totem's work should be documented in some way, he created a 3D replay viewer and a level editor called NEW! it was possible to test levels inside the editor (not 100% sure) and it also had lev generator where user could implement the algorithms himself but I never understood it. (I don't know if anyone else than totem did :D)

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6930
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6126
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by bene » 23 Apr 2018, 19:33

Abula wrote:
23 Apr 2018, 18:14
bene wrote:
23 Apr 2018, 08:32
Correction: Spinboost is not used in that WR.
But you gas the first 0.2sec to make it to spin faster? Zweq didn't do that. You did it without knowing it?
In my wr rec I turn and gas all the time it's a zweq style that is different from the wr before it but it's gasing all the time never braking and thus never spinboosting.

Spinboost start is http://www.recsource.tv/r/drxmtsoyjf which is different again
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Lukazz » 23 Apr 2018, 20:03

Hosp wrote:
23 Apr 2018, 18:14
pretty sure the spinvid was SL when i asked moszat many yers ago but my memory might have failed me
Yes, I'm also prett sure someone told me that it's SL. Also seems pretty impsy otherwise.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 23 Apr 2018, 20:31

bene wrote:
23 Apr 2018, 19:33
In my wr rec I turn and gas all the time it's a zweq style that is different from the wr before it but it's gasing all the time never braking and thus never spinboosting.
Ok so there isn't any (public) WR which utilizes spinboost..?

(Zweq: go, go with the list)
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Zweq » 24 Apr 2018, 06:24

I don't think there is any rec atm that utilizes spinboosting in such an effect that it matters. However, reverse throttling before first alo has been used for ages in such an effect that it made a key difference. Many battles have been won thanks to that trick. I have a perfect battle example in my mind that I can dig up when I get home.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Zweq » 24 Apr 2018, 18:15

found an example of utilization of 'reverse throttle' before spin in a battle

http://kopasite.net/up/x8544bppyvo3c3e/m099982.lev
http://kopasite.net/up/z678iqpq73k5fi2/ ... 159Kaz.rec

give it a shot yourself and then merge recs to see the power of this trick in this level
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 25 Apr 2018, 19:28

Removed the Bumpy Journey part in Spinboost.
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Re: History of Action SuperCross and Elasto Mania

Post by Zweq » 25 Apr 2018, 19:52

milagros wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 14:12
Abula wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 09:45
Who got the pro tools first!? Russians or a flying Finn? This is like in real sport, maximing everything :)
32tt project starting in june 2010 (let's say after table 313 on 23.6.2010) and smibu's tools were published 18.6.2011 (table 335). I'm quite sure general TAS tools were around much earlier.

I don't think it led to any style finding at the beginning (or at least the styles did not seem possible without sl). Looking at the tables, during that year Zweq drove wrs in turnaround (not sure if that wasn't before), ramp frenzy, tunnel terror, bumpy journey, o&u, twinpeaks and framework. Out of this list only tunnel terror was the new style found in sl. Possibly o&u, if it counts as a new style, but that wasn't beaten since that either.

edit: the first version of hourglass, the software used to do first TAS runs, has been released in november 2009 ( http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8750 ). I has been used my anpdad (and kazan?) before other cheating tools were made public.

edit2: on the first page of that topic there is a comment : "This sounds fantastic, I can't wait for when this is all stable. Dying to see a TAS of Elastomania :)"
I can confirm that tunnel terror style was found in saveload. Ashamed of this little piece of history tbh.
iirc OAU style was found by accident in EOL and then polished in sl - 'the style' was all about using low enough fps to rotate the bike enough to not wheelie before long jump over the first killer, the rest of the level was same old shit already seen in coc0k video.

edit: ok i checked OAU and first rec with new style is in sl folder 19th november 2010 with 28.8x time, 3 days later 29.41 was wroomed in EOL folder. So another piece of history to be ashamed of :)
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Zweq » 25 Apr 2018, 20:52

Finally done with checking errors in chapter V. age of eol. I'm scared to start another chapter because this took quite a lot of time, and I didn't orka mention many expressions that were kinda hard to read. Probably missed some typos too as my concentration level varied.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pek6_ ... bJJvkbnwas
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Hosp » 25 Apr 2018, 21:37

why ashamed of styles found in SL, equally skilled to find them just faster than mongoing around live
all styles nowadays except in like balles and stuff is basicly SL found imo, especially cuplevs and such
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by milagros » 25 Apr 2018, 21:56

Hosp wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 21:37
why ashamed of styles found in SL, equally skilled to find them just faster than mongoing around live
because SL was not public
even though some alternatives (hourglass) already out there
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by milagros » 26 Apr 2018, 18:51

Most mentioned players in History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018):

# Player Nat. Times
-----------------------------
1. Zweq FIN 170
2. Markku FIN 56
3. Abula FIN 52
4. TorInge NOR 50
5. Zero FIN 48
6. John SWE 44
7. Kazan RUS 42
8. milagros SVK 40

still better than 29.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Hosp » 26 Apr 2018, 21:19

hosp is mentioned 3 times in diff lists!! I'm Fejm ous!
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by zebra » 28 Apr 2018, 07:57

I'm also currently reading the article through and seeking some typos etc. But it will take at least a week for me to finish. Very impressive article!
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 1 May 2018, 10:13

Zweq wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 20:52
Finally done with checking errors in chapter V. age of eol
Great list, max thanks! Fixed them. Some comments:

12. PeXi invented total time idea, not Balázs if you didn't know that. Or I didn't get your point?

13. Your 1h tt 40:44,67 isn't better when related to the contemporary WR tt.

There were two "This must be rewritten somehow." but they are difficult because I have already did my best and it's frustrating to try to understand what's the problem. Is it bad language or unconvincing or what? Just a tip for the next suggestion lists if someone bothers to do.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Grace » 1 May 2018, 11:20

I will read at some stage.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by bene » 2 May 2018, 07:36

Abula wrote:
1 May 2018, 10:13
12. PeXi invented total time idea, not Balázs if you didn't know that. Or I didn't get your point?
12. The location of the text (1htt battle section) combined with the wording makes it sound like you intended to say PeXi invented the concept of 1 hour total time battles or something else.

* Why is the fact that PeXi invented total times in 1998 part of the 1 hour tt section? Shouldn't this fact be in 1998?
* If it's there it should be rephrased. An example: "Ever since PeXi came up with the concept playing to improve total time in 1998 there have been many battles to achieve the best total time in a short time. In 2000 Abula started 24 hour tt competitions. The earliest record of a one hour tt battle is from 2001"
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Zweq » 2 May 2018, 08:34

i suggested rewriting of these snippets because they're clumsy and difficult to read :)

snippet #1

Do you look at short, long or infinite playing time levels? Classics or best made levels? Or the one with the most awesome Youtube video? But I have done two exceptions: one World Cup and one battle replay included.

Now i see you have rewritten it to this

Do you weight short, long or infinite playing time contests? Classics or the best made levels? Or the contest with the most awesome Youtube video?

for the record full context is

Next we will look at the fanciest replays since 2010. WR and Pipe replays are in different chapters so what we have here are more artistic and experimental replays. We don't have a chapter for the best external level replays because it's practically impossible to tell which of them are the best ones. Do you weight short, long or infinite playing time contests? Classics or the best made levels? Or the contest with the most awesome Youtube video?

Sorry to say but it's not any better :D

I giv up with that paragraph, it's not easy to write clean sach or-lists. If I had the full power i'd just drop everything after "... which of them are the best ones". Have you heard of the saying that book is ready when you can't remove anything anymore? ;)

----------------

snippet #2

Another clumsy text snippet was this

Driving pipes got even more insane in Age of EOL. Very tight, very long and even new pipe types. Some of the classics got smashed as well.

"Driving pipes got even more insane..." could simply be rephrased to "Pipe driving got even more insane..."

"Very tight, very long and even new pipe types." looks like there is entire expression missing before teh. Perhaps "Pipes became tighter and longer than ever before and new pipe types were introduced"

"Some of the classics got smashed as well." Maybe simply "Some of the records in classic pipes got smashed as well"

Now when I put everything together it's still clumsy. one more final try

"Pipe driving got even more insane in Age of EOL. Kuskis became capable of finishing longer and tighter pipes than ever before. New more difficult pipe types were introduced to accommodate increased skill levels. Records in classic pipes got absolutely smashed."

I don't mean to be negative if it sounds like that, the content is great, but the expression could use some work in some places :) Your finnish blogs are a nice read, but the english needs some work. I'm a terrible writer myself so I should shut up. Maybe some sierra or lousk or luther or someone with skills in writing could help you out. I understand polishing a single paragraph can take ez an hour of work from unskilled man like me. Maby those mans I mentioned can just spew out perf paragraphs in 3 mins.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 2 May 2018, 22:04

Thanks! I'll check those out a bit later. I think some paragrahps were better, some worse. In the beginning I was more careful but it took just too much time. I'm more than happy to receive better texts if some native bothers but I won't do much thinking anymore by myself - already too deep into the next thing. Maybe after 10 years when I'm much better in English and nostalgy hits again :). Nonetheless I guess most ppl just watch some replays and skim through the images so not a big deal.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by jaytea » 3 May 2018, 06:58

I happen to think it's brilliantly written. sure, there are grammatical errors and inconsistencies, but this is a casual article on a computer game ffs, not a damn phD thesis. much more important than syntax in this kind of work is content and presentation, with which Abila did an absolutely commendable job. there are many native English speakers who could not have written something even half as engaging as this article.

with all the absurd solecisms, malapropisms, and SoCisms that permeate the community's jargon, it would seem inappropriate for the language of such an article to be technically perfect.

by the way, the first line my eyes fell upon when checking out Zweq's google doc is wrong:
11. Zweq became number one again => The number one (there is only one number one ;))
"the number one" requires a noun, ie. "the number one player". "became number one again" is correct.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Zweq » 3 May 2018, 09:20

It's very likely that some of my suggestions are grammatically incorrect just like I pointed out to abula in casual EOL chat ;)

I don't think the goal should be phd level correctness either, but the text should be at least readable, otherwise mans will just skip the text and eye pics and vids and the time spent to write the text was wasted.

Right now the only section I've gone through thoroughly is V age of eol and it is mostly fine and readable and I assume it was the most difficult to write for abu because he wasn't around and it's the most rushed because he doesn't have nostalgy / passion for that era.

Just because I point out possible errors or clumsy phrases in 1% of the text of that section doesn't mean that there are a lot of issues nor that I want the text to be phd level.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 4 May 2018, 15:41

Yes well it's actually my phd thesis, master's thesis took less than 200h :D Age of EOL was also rushed because I wanted to get the article ready asap at that point. Writing took much longer than I estimated in the first place (200h).
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 4 May 2018, 15:53

If someone knows how to free memory after playing a replay with recplay, please share. Now browser gets slow after watching too many replays. Refreshing fixes it but it's not the best solution.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by pawq » 10 May 2018, 18:38

The Article is out!!!

http://www.moposite.com/news.php

Can't wait to read all! :beer:

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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Labs » 10 May 2018, 18:52

Code: Select all

The WR table is still open and all the records are possible to improve except Slalom.
Why you say Slalom is impossible to improve?
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by AndrY » 10 May 2018, 20:13

Fuck, thiss seems very sad. like elma is really dies
https://media.pulu.org/palsta/files/60/ ... 1-2017.png
We are in 2004-2005 years level now :(
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by mena » 10 May 2018, 20:35

AndrY wrote:
10 May 2018, 20:13
Fuck, thiss seems very sad. like elma is really dies
https://media.pulu.org/palsta/files/60/ ... 1-2017.png
We are in 2004-2005 years level now :(
It is still 32.8 battle every day though?
Half of those 19k battles were TL remix levels when barely anyone played. :)
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by pawq » 10 May 2018, 21:57

Hmm, massive drop in 2016, any idea what caused that? In 2017 the slight drop could be cuz of WCup I guess.

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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by kuchitsu » 10 May 2018, 22:29

probably just TL became less active or something))

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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by zebra » 11 May 2018, 10:54

Finished reading! I read through the whole article. It was worth it!

The errors I found:

An hungarian programmer -> A hungarian programmer
meikäkäisiä -> meikäläisiä
for exmaple -> for example
succesful -> successful
---
4. Teams: Other active and successful teams in the Across years were T98, HC, ahf, PRA, CWS, SSC and tLD. Team FM which later… <- Team names of those teams (at least Flowertouching Men) could be mentioned, because the teams earlier in the chapter are named.
---
iniated -> initiated
mentiond -> mentioned
Chapter 9, Seppolaakso: The term “Seppolaakso” is explained nowhere
as far as possible from it to not die -> as far as possible from it not to die
a five members jury -> a jury of five members
---
The article says: “the lower the FPS is, the better grip the bike has on the ground”
The link to veezay’s mopolauta post says: “better grip when vsync off”
So with way it is, vsync on or off?
---
The game has a bug where one apple is registered as two when it's picked by two wheels at the same time. <- should you also mention that the bug occurs also with wheel and head?
---
succesfully -> successfully
No center camera -> No centered camera
succesful -> successful
---
Zebra reversed start and end positions in 2005 <- I do not remember doing this, but I might be mistaken too if you have some proof?
---
Zebra published IFLP (Internal Feeling Level Pack) in 2004 <- That’s partly correct, but IFLP was designed by team TAP, not solely by myself.
---
chat with each others -> chat with each other
guitted -> quit
quitted -> quit
---
In many tables: “*) must be in top-100 in total points to keep it somewhat comparable”
Where is the * referring to?
---
comming -> coming
tradion -> tradition
---
11. Gameplay videos: the first video (Elasto Mania Done Quick 2007) doesn’t work: “Videon omistaja on estänyt videon toistamisen muissa sivustoissa”
---
downloadeble and uploadeble -> downloadable and uploadable
previos -> previous
The quality of the videos have improved -> The quality of the videos has improved
Watch saveload Trick Abount -> Tricks Abound
opionated -> ?
involded -> involved
elevetor -> elevator
obvisouly -> obviously
succesfully -> successfully
surprisingle -> surprisingly
Hiqh -> High
intellingence -> intelligence
---
Also in many places I would have placed commas differently, but I’m not very good at them, so I’m not mentioning them.

All in all, thanks very much for the amazing article, Abula the Great! :)
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by pawq » 11 May 2018, 13:48

zebra wrote:
11 May 2018, 10:54
involded -> involved
elevetor -> elevator
obvisouly -> obviously
These are some brilliant typos :D

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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 12 May 2018, 18:22

Labs wrote:
10 May 2018, 18:52

Code: Select all

The WR table is still open and all the records are possible to improve except Slalom.
Why you say Slalom is impossible to improve?
Just joking because SL WR is same as normal WR in Slalom.
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by pawq » 12 May 2018, 19:40

Which it isn't... Slalom SL WR is 38.27

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9843

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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 13 May 2018, 08:07

Thank you Zebra! Fixed most of your suggestions. Dame EDQ2007
zebra wrote:
11 May 2018, 10:54
The article says: “the lower the FPS is, the better grip the bike has on the ground”
The link to veezay’s mopolauta post says: “better grip when vsync off”
So with way it is, vsync on or off?
Uh, this is an all-time most annoying thing to explain. Maybe someone can fix the paragraph. I'm too confused.
zebra wrote:
11 May 2018, 10:54
Zebra reversed start and end positions in 2005 <- I do not remember doing this, but I might be mistaken too if you have some proof?
Hm, dunno where I got that but looks like it was bob:

viewtopic.php?p=217744#p217744
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=59&p=386
zebra wrote:
11 May 2018, 10:54
In many tables: “*) must be in top-100 in total points to keep it somewhat comparable”
Where is the * referring to?
It refers to the whole thing. It's not 100 % logical but I guess people get the point (= extra information) and it's good looking because it doesn't require more than two chars: "*)"
40:02,71 (104.) | WCup4: 8. | 3x WR | 3x GAA | 9x FEM | KOM | Article | UPLOAD

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Abula
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 13 May 2018, 08:11

pawq wrote:
12 May 2018, 19:40
Which it isn't... Slalom SL WR is 38.27

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9843

:wink:
Ok, no joke then.
40:02,71 (104.) | WCup4: 8. | 3x WR | 3x GAA | 9x FEM | KOM | Article | UPLOAD

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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by sunl » 13 May 2018, 15:00

Reposting here because I guess you don't really use discord :D

10:31 PM] sunl: hey
[10:31 PM] sunl: For the xkcd line, this is Leek not me using a custom LGR (not a fancyboosted LGR)
[10:31 PM] sunl: Sla's 02 record (beaten by Spef) used a spinboost (sla has public link somewhere asking him)
[10:32 PM] sunl: Spef's 02 record is available publically: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9327 (he posted it somewhere at one point)
[10:53 PM] sunl: Craaazy amazing article Abula :smiley:
[10:54 PM] sunl: Super nice hearing all the across history and stuff and having some insight into the anti-cheat was also really interesting



Also very sad:
There is even one older dynamic records system that I'm aware of. It was made for the Czech community by Bobisek in 2001. I haven't found the website anymore but Bobisek has dated the Czech meeting report to 2001-10-06 on the same background as the records system was running. I can assure you that I remember the background because I was jealous of his system and even bought a book to learn to program in PHP. Thanks for the inspiration!

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Abula
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Re: History of Elasto Mania (1995-2018)

Post by Abula » 19 May 2018, 19:08

Thanks! Fixed xkcd, Sla's spinboost WR and edited Bobisek part a little bit. Many new comments in the article, really appreciated!
40:02,71 (104.) | WCup4: 8. | 3x WR | 3x GAA | 9x FEM | KOM | Article | UPLOAD

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