EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

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Zero
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EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by Zero » 21 Apr 2018, 21:22

Why do you think it's okay to tell me to fuck off basically every time I join a battle?

Coming online after a shitty day at work only to see people being so rude for no reason is something that simply didn't happen before. This game and the scene has been a major part of my life for years and I've put my heart and soul in to it. Yet it seems like every time I succeed and try to drive the best times I possibly can people get angry for it. I could start acting like a cunt too if that's what you want.

It's not my problem that you fucking suck at the game.

Fuck you guys, seriously.
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by danitah » 21 Apr 2018, 21:45

Yeah something feels different. So much positivity is gone and replaced by negativity. It is currently hard to find motivation to make quality levels. Also seems like no one want special battles (apple battle, ff etc) any more, just being met with negativity if start those, unless find some of the 5 guys that always want them. Then again I feel pushy if I have to always ask them so I duno.

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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by bene » 21 Apr 2018, 21:46

Love you Zero. Any time and every time I have said that it's been meant as a joke because I'm bad and can't beat you :heart: :bear:
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by pawq » 21 Apr 2018, 22:28

bene wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 21:46
Love you Zero. Any time and every time I have said that it's been meant as a joke because I'm bad and can't beat you :heart: :bear:
Same. But I'm ashamed and will definitely not do it again, I'm sorry.

As for the overall negativity... Isn't it kind of centred on inactivity?

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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by danitah » 21 Apr 2018, 22:35

pawq wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 22:28
As for the overall negativity... Isn't it kind of centred on inactivity?
It is definitely both.

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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by kuchitsu » 22 Apr 2018, 00:50

(igge) i just wanted nice friendly balle
(igge) then entire world elite joins



I remember saying similar things to you, Zero. I'm not trying to excuse myself, but I think it's sort of understandable when people feel frustrated. The problem is that we don't have a matching system like in larger online games, so pros and noobs have to compete in same levels. This situation will always be somewhat discouraging for the noobs because the harsh truth is that never winning SUCKS, as it lowers your confidence and makes it harder to keep enjoying the game. Everyone wants to kick some ass once in a while, so it shouldn't be a surprise that you coming to EOL at the "wrong" moment can totally ruin an evening for a less skilled player who happens to be leading at that time. Let's be honest, most of us will never be anywhere close to your abilities, and when you rub that truth in our faces every day by totally pwning us in battles it can hurt a little. I know, this doesn't excuse the insults, but hopefully it explains them.

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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by AndrY » 22 Apr 2018, 01:04

imo there always was little negative in elma, not only now appeared. people have bad mood sometimes, and loss in balle is like last straw.

but usually people are reacting normal to other`s win, especially if rec must be nice))
its wierd to take offence at random insult and write so serious posts imo :(
danitah wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 21:45
Also seems like no one want special battles (apple battle, ff etc) any more,
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by iltsu » 22 Apr 2018, 01:04

I have noticed same thing about pros joining balles. For examble few days ago thunder was leading balle, then zero joined and beated him by 0.2s in middle of balle. Thunder chatted something like "that was fun, bye" and leaved. I just thought how can there be that bad losers. Zero u are welcome to balles. Dont care if some kuskis are bad losers.

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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by A.K.B. » 22 Apr 2018, 01:31

Always love when Zero on. Makes for good challenge! People taking elma too seriously should perhaps stop, grab bear, maybe chip, then have a laugh and chat in comments. Love a good shittalk, but don't like a bad sport
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by danitah » 22 Apr 2018, 01:42

Maybe we need more hidden times battles, i know they aren't very popular for some reason, but seems like seeing themself lead in battle does something to people where they feel like they deserve to win or something. It's quite sad if you can't enjoy elma if you are not winning battles.

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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by danitah » 22 Apr 2018, 01:50

kuchitsu wrote:
22 Apr 2018, 00:50
The problem is that we don't have a matching system like in larger online games, so pros and noobs have to compete in same levels. This situation will always be somewhat discouraging for the noobs because the harsh truth is that never winning SUCKS, as it lowers your confidence and makes it harder to keep enjoying the game.
Obviously the player base is too small for leagues, but I personally find it satisfying to climb the standings even if I don't win, and if Zero is in norm lev, or M/adi is in apple battle etc, it pretty much feels like winning if they are the only ones to beat me. And of course it is super satisfying those rare times I do beat them. Here is maybe another problem, I imagine it is annoying when you are considered pro and people rub it in your face when you just want to casually play a lev and someone beats you, or if you finish 29th in a cup event etc. It's also a good idea to try to find a rival to compete against (I recommend blaztek).
AndrY wrote:
22 Apr 2018, 01:04
its wierd to take offence at random insult and write so serious posts imo :(
It's not just a random insult, I've seen Zero getting these comments all the time.

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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by zebra » 22 Apr 2018, 06:12

Yep, it's a shame that we don't have a ranking system.
Some years ago I played trackmania. In trackmania, you get points by beating better players than you. And the better players you beated, the more points you got. It worked nicely and I felt like winning if I got most points (even if I didn't win the race). Here is an example how the points could have been given:

1. danitah (+10 points, for beating Zero)
2. Zero (0 points)
3. zebra (+3 points for beating iltsu and +5 points for beating bene)
4. iltsu (+2 points for beating bene)
5. bene (0 points)

Another thing is that I tried to make some battle levels and battled them but don't feel like making more of them because I got a feeling that players didn't like playing them... :/
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by Zweq » 22 Apr 2018, 09:50

sorry for calling you a cheater! although it was obviously not serious and a bit funny ;) you're right, it's definitely my own fault that I suck. I made my choice to invest time into internals and it shows as battle retardeness. It's my own stupidity to keep expecting good results from battles when I simply am not battling enough to even play relaxed, not to mention play well. When I have good battle touch on a good day I can at least challenge zero if there is enough playtime and the lev is < 40s, but right now I should just stick to internals and stop getting frustrated with battles.
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by ile » 22 Apr 2018, 11:05

wtf are you on about? lol :confused:

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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by jaytea » 22 Apr 2018, 11:10

Zero wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 21:22
Why do you think it's okay to tell me to fuck off basically every time I join a battle?

Coming online after a shitty day at work only to see people being so rude for no reason is something that simply didn't happen before. This game and the scene has been a major part of my life for years and I've put my heart and soul in to it. Yet it seems like every time I succeed and try to drive the best times I possibly can people get angry for it. I could start acting like a cunt too if that's what you want.

It's not my problem that you fucking suck at the game.

Fuck you guys, seriously.
0, you are amazing at balles and way better than me in my prime. don't let these comments get to you. the lion does not care if the kudu talks shit about him; the lion simply eats the kudu. i went on safari last month and saw it happen first hand.

be a lion.
im pretty good at elma

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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by insane guy » 22 Apr 2018, 11:27

After a while you kinda find a league of your own so I always try to beat the people with similar skill to mine. If Zero comes by: Hell yeah, we will get a great rec and you can still play for 2nd place or so. Or hope for Zero to fail and yourself to be lucky so you can be a star for one moment.

Elma is life but don't take life so seriously imo.
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by Abula » 22 Apr 2018, 11:47

Yea, I have own rivals as well, Tisk, skint0r, SveinR etc.
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by kuchitsu » 22 Apr 2018, 11:49

I wish it was as simple as just deciding not to take it seriously. Recently I had to stop playing chess because I just couldn't handle the frustration from losing multiple games every day. I actually felt like the stress was clearly damaging my life, it was making me pissed every day and during these angry moments I would lose control and disrespectfully treat people around me. So I had to delete my online account to put an end to this and immediately my life improved.

I don't usually get like this in Elma, maybe because it isn't a 100% win/lose game and you can measure your success in different ways as you said. But I think I totally understand all these players that can't lose "like a man". Some of us are just not chill enough. We take defeats personally, we feel almost insulted/humiliated when we lose and it ruins our day. Maybe over a long period of time it is possible to slowly change in this aspect but it's a very difficult process of gradual self-improvement. And if you can't relate to this then I'm jealous as you're most likely a happier person than me.

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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by Abula » 22 Apr 2018, 11:52

Chilling attitude. Winning attitude. Both have pros and cons.
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by umiz » 22 Apr 2018, 15:42

Zero is the king!
I wish i could start more battles so I could see his amazing recs.

I love everyone.
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by danitah » 22 Apr 2018, 23:52

I'm sorry about my pessimistic rant in eol today, I was really mad at myself for not noticing such a horrible spot in that FF. Still don't know how it happened. I thought it was well tested, but that one should have been obvious even with quick eyetest. This, combined with the fact that it only had two players at start in pretty much the best possible conditions for a battle (sunday evening, advertised levels in discord and eol) was quite depressing. I guess it's like a lottery nowadays if get good number of players. Cruise FFs are still my favorite type of levels to make, so I won't stop making them. I'll be working on preparing my next FF cup, I promise that it'll have 10 of my best cruise FFs to date and I hope I have learned from all my organizing mistakes in the past. I'll start advertising it many weeks ahead and make sure every kuski knows about it! :D Let's make eol positive again.

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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by Grace » 23 Apr 2018, 05:03

I'll admit that most times when a really great player joins the battle, I pretty much instantly accept that I'm not getting above second in the battle anymore, but I certainly keep trying and I think it's absolutely bizarre to then flame that person for joining..? :| Zero isn't unbeatable by any means. I've been inactive for the better part of 5 years, I'm not a great player by any standards and I've still beaten Zero in a few battles since returning.

Certainly I feel the negativity in elma nowadays. It's why fresh personalities like edahl with his positivity are having such an impact on the community. It affects not just players, but also designers I feel - quite a few of you saw my rant some months ago in "why aren't you making battles" thread. It just doesn't feel good to spend time making a level and within 1 minute have two of the three people who've joined it go "too many apples bye" or "not easy short normal bye".
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by adi » 24 Apr 2018, 11:23

Yea, especially at nights there is quite much whining, which makes it uncomfortable to join battles. But I would never skip special battles because of that...

Anyway I don't really understand what's all the fuss about winning battles.
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by Orcc » 24 Apr 2018, 13:04

For sure there's fuss about battle wins as long as its the only measured battle ranking data. In cups or internals you can fight for the positions, but at the end of the year all there's left of battles is the amount of battle wins. Being second in every cup event gets you nice total score but being second in every battle gives you nothing.

Elma kuskis are highly competitive so its no surprise that they want to win battles. It's sad that there are not many active pro kuskis battling around so Zero has to take all the blame for being too good. It's almost 15 years since my Elma career peak so nowadays I can cruise without worrying about the results, but I remember what it was like when axxu would tell his time in #battle during last minute and win every other battle. You felt like you lost something that should've been yours by right.

I'm not blaming coders for lack of statistics, but I believe that would help. Just a chance to see your name high in the rankings even if you're not capable of winning. People want recognition and are very interested in themselves. If you see a group photo of the last meeting you attended who do you look at first?
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by Ramone » 24 Apr 2018, 17:44

I dont get this win-thingie at all

So you like to win? Go play Flag Tag with your mom! Its like "I want to be the best but I am not so just kill all that are better than me!"

Pathetic. Yes, in statistics a win is always a win. But who the actual fuck cares! Go play 2500 battes when no one else pkays to climb the ranks, fucking do it.

But dont for a fucking sec think you have the right to tell ppl off! You better adjust.

Zero better than you? Well, he fucking practiced like a motherfuck! You think you can just cruise 1 battle a day without even testing dif styles and be mad you dont win?

Personally, if I do 32 and Zero comes and does 28 and I get 2nd. Well, how can I wish a win from that.

I can get pissmad cause losing, and I have a temper. But, Im mad when Ifeel "Ishould have", "could have" beated butnabed.

If Im clueless I dont deserve win.be mad at your own lacking skills not someone elses superior skills.

It would be same logic as:
"I want best car amongst my friends
They work hard and get money
I am lazy and dont like work
I just want best car
Oh, got it. I go smash all my friendscars and they will be jelous of me for justhaving a car"

Conclusion:
Stfu, or
Gtfo, or
Stop sucking.
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by Lousku » 24 Apr 2018, 23:10

Whoever is saying stuff like this is just a delusional nab. If Zero doesn't join the balle and you win, you didn't actually perform any better, you were still a nab, just without proper competition to put you in your place. Look at it this way: If Zero's presence means automatic loss, any wins you do get are undeserved and lucky.

It's only exciting to anticipate the pro winrec and try to imagine how that time is made.
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?

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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by Orcc » 25 Apr 2018, 07:32

That is a ridiculous way of thinking. So in sports as well there should only be one level where everyone competes from babies to professionals all around the world? Back in the days there were wr tables for mans with over 45 tt and over 50 tt and people had fun competing in those. Same as national records or team records. Of course winning a world battle cup event is a whole other thing than winning a late night battle with five kuskis, but if it means something to the winner why take it away?

Still, there is no reason to bash anyone for being too good, but I'm just trying to clarify the feelings behind it. It should not be taken personally.
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by Zero » 25 Apr 2018, 08:12

Players these days have it fairly easy to be honest. :|

Pros aren't as active as they used to be so pretty much the majority of the battles can be won by players who are not elite. When I joined belma it was common for every single battle to have +20 players including some of the best in the world. It took me months to get a single battle win despite having played the game for 3 years prior. I remember even celebrating a 3rd placement by buying a can of coke or something. :D ayy

If you really want to win don't you want to improve as a player too? Losing and and seeing what you could have done better right after is honestly the very best way to learn. It takes time but hell, every single pro has gone through the process. You can be ambitious without being cocky or rude. I think by being the latter you end up hurting your own development as a player more than anything.

I definitely had my moments of being immature as well but I honestly don't get why one would hate the idea of playing against a better player. Since the early days I had nothing but respect for players like Zweq, adi and Markku and I would love the idea of trying my very best against them. One time during the belma days I even managed to truly outsmart everybody and won with a huge margin. The run was absolutely garbage but the styles were ambitious and smart enough to win the said battle. I was trying to push the limits from very early on, even when I had next to zero chance of winning. I see a lot of people stop playing in the middle of the battle just because they think they have a good enough time. I never ever did that. You can always improve and I have tried to maintain that mindset almost to the point of obsession. That's what it takes to be a winner.
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by pawq » 25 Apr 2018, 08:41

Zero wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 08:12
I see a lot of people stop playing in the middle of the battle just because they think they have a good enough time. I never ever did that. You can always improve and I have tried to maintain that mindset almost to the point of obsession.
This has always impressed me about you a lot. There's never a gay lev, there's never a mongo battle type, there's never a perfect run. Should always keep on playing and trying to improve.

It's not easy, but at least we have someone to learn from.

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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by Lousku » 25 Apr 2018, 15:04

Orcc wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 07:32
That is a ridiculous way of thinking.
no u r ridikulus
Orcc wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 07:32
So in sports as well there should only be one level where everyone competes from babies to professionals all around the world?
We don't have nearly enough players to divide battles into leagues. And this is different from most competitive sports. In something like floorball you can get rekt by a pro team in a way that doesn't even let you play the game in an enjoyable way. They'll just control everything and stop all of your attempts in the first steps.

Meanwhile in Elma battles your performance doesn't suffer from seeing a pro time on F6. Actually it can be the opposite. When Zero enters and beats you by 10 seconds, you'll probably start thinking about better possibilities and find better styles than you initially had. The only difference is people won't get your bad rec to download, but why would you even want them to see it when there's a pro rec available?
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?

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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by FinMan » 25 Apr 2018, 15:41

i agree with the previous post entirely and if you tldrd, read it :beer:
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by milagros » 25 Apr 2018, 17:19

for the equality of outcome, all times should be hidden and everyone should win the participation trophy
world full of winners would be a perfect world to live in
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by ile » 25 Apr 2018, 18:08

milagros wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 17:19
participation trophy
Please don't give them any ideas...

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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by danitah » 25 Apr 2018, 19:31

We already have this: my have: 250+ battles played
Would like to see the same for battles started, not sure if there's a way to check how many battles I've started total now?

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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by Zero » 25 Apr 2018, 20:06

danitah wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 19:31
We already have this: my have: 250+ battles played
Would like to see the same for battles started, not sure if there's a way to check how many battles I've started total now?
2292, it's in the Rankings.

TL is leading with 16879 while Chris is 2nd with 5757. Sick gap.
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Re: EOL is all of a sudden a shitty place to spend time in

Post by Orcc » 25 Apr 2018, 21:03

Lousku wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 15:04
We don't have nearly enough players to divide battles into leagues. And this is different from most competitive sports. In something like floorball you can get rekt by a pro team in a way that doesn't even let you play the game in an enjoyable way. They'll just control everything and stop all of your attempts in the first steps.
I wouldn't compare it to a team sport, but rather a 100m sprint where only the winner gets anything and you're falling behind with every step. Try and gather the motivation to get the most out of you in that run.

I fully agree that the problem lies in having too few players. If there were constantly 15-20 kuskis playing, it would be easy to find own nemeses and let the guys out of your league compete in their own level and still everyone could enjoy the battles. This is a lot harder with five players. That's just something that is hard to fix, since there have been advertising attempts without a lot of success. The veteran guys grow older and have less and less time for Elma which leads to a sad path.

Zero wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 08:12
If you really want to win don't you want to improve as a player too? Losing and and seeing what you could have done better right after is honestly the very best way to learn. It takes time but hell, every single pro has gone through the process.
This is true, but having such a dedication (let alone the capability to improve so far) is very rare. I roughly know my own biggest shortcomings in Elma skills but I don't see the value in spending time to develop then. Most people don't even dedicate their time to the most important things in life, such as studying. People stroll in their comfort zones and are happy with it, or in this particular battle case unhappy. But still it's not your fault that your skills are so far better than the others'. No excuse to be bashed.
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