EOL moderating revival

General discussion about the games and the scene.

Moderator: Moporators

Post Reply
User avatar
Kopaka
39mins club
Posts: 6610
Joined: 23 May 2002, 13:59
Team: LAME
Location: In a northern danish city beating YOUR record.
Contact:

EOL moderating revival

Post by Kopaka »

This is an update from your friendly neightborhood EOL mods.

So in the recent past a number of people have mentioned an unpleasant environment in eol, embodied in an often overly negative attitude, an excessive use of profanities or other things like that. As this is not exactly what we'd like to see, we've started a bit of a shake up in the mod team and how we do things. This includes the following initiatives:

- More active modding
We'll take our part of the blame for letting things slide, as the amount of active modding in eol over the last couple years has been very minimal. We're trying now to be more active. An important thing to note as part of that, is that it may seem like suddenly we're being more strict, that we're changing "the line" or that you're being unfairly treated because something likewise went unpunished in the past. This is not the case, rather we're actually starting to enforce certain rules again, getting things back on track to were we wanted it to be all along. So bear this in mind.

- Reporting wrongdoings
While the amount of modding might have been limited the last couple years, the amount of people reporting things has also been almost nonexistent. We can never have enough mods that we can be around all the time, so it's important that if you see something bad happening, you report it to a mod. It doesn't have to be something you think deserves a ban, but for anything unpleasant it's useful to report it, so we get a better idea of what happens and what people dislike. The reporting feature on the website is one way, but it doesn't give a notification so response may be slow. A better way is discord or lauta pm. You can see who's a mod here and in the userlist in discord.

- New mods
As part of the shake up we've removed a couple inactive mods and have so far added two new ones. Welcome to pawq and danitah. There could still be room for more, either mods or aborters, so if you're interested in either read this post from the last call for eol crew and send me a pm.

- Disciplinary mechanics
A few things involving getting warnings and bans in eol might not work quite optimally, so just a few notes about that. In the past you didn't get any notification when getting a ban or warning, which means especially for warnings you may not have noticed it. Check your userpage on the eolsite now to see if you have any. If they're grayed out they're over a year old and don't count anymore. From now on you'll be getting an email to let you know of a new warning/ban. While you are there also make sure you have an email in the system on the settings page, as some were lost a while ago.

- Possible public ban list
A suggestion we've discussed is having a public ban list, for example a locked topic here on lauta. The point of this would be to avoid confusions, to let people know that mods are actually active, to acts a deterrent, and so people would know bans are given for a good reason rather than rely on hearsay. The cons would be that people may feel like they're being hung out and possibly more negative feelings towards those people than they deserve. So I would like to hear peoples opinions on this.

- The line
So were do we draw the line? What is the behaviour we're trying to break down on? Well there's the rules here, but certain things may be considered somewhat vague (and we may yet make some changes to make it more clear) but those things are also impossible to really define in words. At the end of the day we want a pleasant environment for everyone. This doesn't need to result in bans, but can often be solved just by talking. If you're being told to stop doing something, even if it doesn't make sense to you, just try to have an open mind. It doesn't have to mean you can never do it, but at least try to limit it, so it doesn't get out of hand.

Most cases, especially formal warnings/bans will be discussed in the eol mod team. So if you're being told to stop something, don't take it as a particular person disliking you, but rather that person trying to accomplish the goal of the mod team, which in turn is based on our perception of what the community wants. And you're always welcome to ask about or formally appeal an action, if only to get more information. Most cases when someone gets banned is when someone is out of reach or purposely ignores rules, if you listen and have an open mind it can usually be solved without one.

I didn't make this topic to have a discussion about what's okay and what's not, since it rarely goes anywhere constructive, but if you feel you need to, you're always welcome to of course.


That's it for today, any thoughts on any of this or other ideas on things we can do are very welcome.
Last edited by Kopaka on 11 May 2018, 17:19, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
pawq
38mins club
Posts: 6547
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 19:56
Team: TR
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: EOL moderating revival

Post by pawq »

Hi everyone!

As I mentioned earlier on Mopolauta and on discord, and as Kopaka kindly introduced above, I joined the EOL mod team on 30 April. This wasn't planned in any way, it was a consequence of my deliberations as to how to make the Elma scene a better place. It also wasn’t a consequence of the recent 3-day stormy discussion about the atmosphere in the scene on Discord – I actually spoke to Kopaka before that.

As a new member of the mod team, my goal is to reinvigorate it, and to help it stay on top of the day-to-day things, as well as hopefully contribute with some of my own ideas. I’ll add headings to the post below, like Kopaka has cool headings, just to make it a bit more readable :) Sorry for too many letters, I know reading is hard work :wink:

- Notifications for warnings and bans
One of the first things that I suggested was making sure that when disciplinary action (i.e. a warning or a ban) is taken, the affected person should be immediately notified. This is to avoid situations where a person receives a ban, not aware that they already had a warning. For the lack of a better system, Kopaka agreed to manually send e-mails directly to the e-mail addresses registered with the accounts. I’m hoping that it won’t need to be used too frequently, but when it does, it should reduce the amount of confusion surrounding bans.

- Support ticket backlog
A major “project” that I have embarked on when I joined was catching up with the entire backlog of support tickets on elmaonline.net, some of which were dated as far back as to 2012. The list has sadly built up due to the lack of a notification system, and likely simply mod inactivity. This is something that nobody can be blamed for, as Elma is an extracurricular activity for all of us, and our commitment is dictated by tons of other things, i.e. life. I have now gone through all the tickets (all 126 of them). They ranged from old ban appeals, through technical support questions, to incorrect levels in the WCup_4 pack. I replied to every single one that was submitted by a registered user, so if you ever submitted any ticket on the website, you should now see a reply on the bottom of your profile page. Most cases were naturally outdated, so all I could say is apologies, but some issues were resolved as well. From now on I will stay up to date with the tickets, so feel free to use them if needed. Discord and Mopolauta are obviously more reliable ways to get a response, but some matters, such as warning/ban appeals should be submitted through the website. If you’re wondering how long I can stay on top of this, then think of the Best Internal Total Times topic, which has been updated since 2008 :wink:

- Unconfirmed users
When looking through the support tickets, I have sadly encountered more than a dozen tickets submitted by people who for various reasons couldn’t register, run the game, or connect to the server, and never received a reply. Apparently some of them eventually managed to play under different usernames, but it seems that most never have. This was particularly heart-breaking for me, given how small our community is, and so I gathered all the unfortunate usernames, asked Kopaka for their e-mails from the database (which he naturally provided, thanks again!), and I sent a very lengthy e-mail to all of them. It included apologies, reassurance of further support, and most importantly detailed instructions of how to run the game and where to go in the scene (such as Mopolauta or the Discord server). I haven’t received any reply so far, but not even a day has passed yet, so we’ll see. Even a single reply would make it worthwhile for me!

- Public ban list
This was briefly introduced by Kopaka in his post, but I would like to expand on it a little. The idea was motivated by numerous cases that we’ve seen over the years, where the person didn’t know they were warned/banned, it wasn’t clear why the disciplinary action was taken, where other people were not aware of bans, or thought they were handed without proper justification… Overall, situations where confusion, misinformation and lack of information dominated, instead of clarity and transparency. I thought about this quite a bit, and saw these potential advantages to having a public ban list on Mopolauta:
  • The entire community would be aware when actions are taken. This would prevent complaints about lack of action, but above all it would simply make everyone more informed. For example, until a few days ago I was unaware that TL is currently halfway through a 1-year chat ban. I think wider awareness is something that our community needs.
  • Also, it would make people, both the affected and the observers, see that the warnings and bans are used as a fair and formal means of rule enforcement, not as vindictive sticks. Warning/ban statements would include more or less detailed reasoning for the action.
The idea was met with mixed response after I proposed it to the mod team. The biggest concern is the affected players’ right for privacy, and that having a public ban list would make it seem like they’re used as scapegoats, publicly crucified as examples for others. I do understand and appreciate this concern, but I see it in a different way. Making example, but in the sense of clearly showing the community what is not acceptable, or deemed to be beyond the line, rather than pointing to the affected players. I believe we’re all mature enough to understand the purpose of a disciplinary system, and to refrain from mockery. Moreover, the majority of the bans are discussed publicly anyway, so having a public list with bans and justifications would just make those discussions more informed.
To summarise, it’s a trade-off between system transparency and personal privacy, and it’s a difficult one. Constructive and reasonable arguments from outside the mod team are certainly welcome, as they would help us reach a better consensus.

- Final words
Overall, I would like to help our community be more positive and friendlier than ever before. This includes being friendly to Zero when he joins a battle last minute and wins instead of telling him to fuck off, being friendly and grateful to designers instead of telling them their levs are shit, and being friendly and welcoming to any and every person that is a part of the community, or may potentially join it. I am planning to use my new (UNLIMITED!!!!) powers to help towards this goal when necessary. But this does not mean throwing bans left and right. It means above all talking to people, and any disciplinary decision will always be discussed with the mod team first, unless a particular case is 100% clear.

One thing I’d like to highlight is that, if you ever feel like you were treated unfairly, you should write an appeal on the elmaonline site. All genuine and serious appeals will be calmly discussed by the mod team and responded to, as we have already done twice since I joined the crew.

Bottom line:
Mods respect everyone and act with the best intention at heart, so please give them respect as well

:beer:
Last edited by pawq on 11 May 2018, 17:40, edited 1 time in total.
ile
Kuski
Posts: 138
Joined: 11 Feb 2014, 16:56

Re: EOL moderating revival

Post by ile »

tldr?
User avatar
Kopaka
39mins club
Posts: 6610
Joined: 23 May 2002, 13:59
Team: LAME
Location: In a northern danish city beating YOUR record.
Contact:

Re: EOL moderating revival

Post by Kopaka »

TLDR:

1. More active modding happening
2. Please report more
3. Added new mods
4. Check userpage to know about warnings, in future you get notification
5. Public ban list yes/no?
6. Just don't be dick
ile
Kuski
Posts: 138
Joined: 11 Feb 2014, 16:56

Re: EOL moderating revival

Post by ile »

lol k
edahl
Kuski
Posts: 51
Joined: 14 May 2007, 20:58

Re: EOL moderating revival

Post by edahl »

:bear: :beer: :bear:
Good work guys!
New old newb :beer:
Image
sunl
Kuski
Posts: 346
Joined: 27 Jul 2013, 16:23

Re: EOL moderating revival

Post by sunl »

Sounds amazing!

I guess I'm not a huge fan of the public ban list but I don't have a super strong opinion.

Thx eveyrone as always for being amazing
User avatar
insane guy
Kuski
Posts: 1673
Joined: 22 May 2002, 20:53
Contact:

Re: EOL moderating revival

Post by insane guy »

thanks for making the effort to keep eol a friendly and positive place. If you are active a lot I think sometimes it's hard to see the changes in the general atmosphere because they happen gradually. It's kinda like watching a child grow VS seeing the child once a year.
For me it actually needed Ramone's and Zero's posts to really see that things had changed. I hope this more strict and active moderating will not result in a lot of bans but rather in a more social and nice atmosphere. :beer:
"Every night, me go to sleep, me have wet dream..."
User avatar
kuchitsu
Kuski
Posts: 1423
Joined: 13 Aug 2010, 20:31

Re: EOL moderating revival

Post by kuchitsu »

It's great to see you guys putting so much effort into making EOL a more pleasant place to be in! And yes, yes, please have an easily accessible public ban list. I'm a member of another web community where people get banned silently and I really dislike their policy. I still have no idea why some of my favorite users are no longer welcome on the site as it was never properly explained to the public, and most likely I'm not even aware of some of the bans. This situation makes me rather angry sometimes. I want to know what happens to our dear friends and why it happens.
User avatar
danitah
Kuski
Posts: 818
Joined: 24 May 2004, 16:22
Contact:

Re: EOL moderating revival

Post by danitah »

kuchitsu wrote: 12 May 2018, 12:05 It's great to see you guys putting so much effort into making EOL a more pleasant place to be in! And yes, yes, please have an easily accessible public ban list. I'm a member of another web community where people get banned silently and I really dislike their policy. I still have no idea why some of my favorite users are no longer welcome on the site as it was never properly explained to the public, and most likely I'm not even aware of some of the bans. This situation makes me rather angry sometimes. I want to know what happens to our dear friends and why it happens.
I've had a quite long discussion with pawq about this for the past week or so, and while I still disagree with having a public ban list, I am less opposed to it than I was before. It's been a very constructive discussion I think.

Most of the time getting a ban does not mean that you are not welcome in EOL any more. It is our wish that EOL is a nice place to come back to for anyone who has been away. Also the nice thing about EOL ban system is that we can give bans in quite restricted areas. If you are getting a start battle ban, you can still come online to play battles and chat with people.

What I have advocated for is having an announcement topic in Mopolauta where we make announcements of bans when we feel like there is a reason to. Obvious examples for me are really long chat bans, or cases like cheating where the community deserves to know. An example of a case that I think would be better of kept in private would be any kind of personal conflict that simply escalated too much.

Lately EOL has been a nicer place than ever for me. I think it's partly because I have changed my own attitude quite much about certain things, but I also think the community has collectively been improving.
User avatar
pawq
38mins club
Posts: 6547
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 19:56
Team: TR
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: EOL moderating revival

Post by pawq »

Following an appeal, Dawid's permanent ban has been revoked.

He had been given two 1-year bans for repetitive cheating, which later resulted in a permanent ban. Given the time passed since the last ban and signs of his good will, the mod crew collectively decided to give him another chance.

Should you see any cheating online (e.g. incorrect battle win times), please report it to the mod crew, either on discord or on http://elmaonline.net/help/support.
Post Reply