Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

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Zweq
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Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Zweq »

If you search elmaonline site for qwquu and click on times you can see the detailed ride info http://elmaonline.net/statistics/level/2

The detailed info contains almost everything about the ride, most importantly number of volts.

For some internals knowing this data is basically the same as having the rec public when you play on the very top level.

What do people think about this and what is kopaka's reply for publishing peoples hidden styles without their consent?
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Hosp »

i just talked about this a bit in eol chat this morning, any chance you got thread idea from that? :p
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Hosp »

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this is wat i talked about
and ye, I've gotten quite much help in one level i höyled from this information :p
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Kopaka »

It's been there for years an no one complained before :shrug:
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Orcc »

I had never known about that, had to do a few clicks even after reading this thread until got the popup. It is true that it can reveal some secrets, especially in short levels.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by danitah »

I assume not many people knew about it. I just found it about a week ago. I also assumed it was not intentional since it's not in the stats->internals page.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by AndrY »

big thx! interesting thing. would be more interesting if it have info about when these volts and alovolts were pressed))
and very good that smth new in eol site.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Zweq »

No problem andry! I'm glad you like it
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by AndrY »

Zweq wrote: 22 May 2018, 09:27 No problem andry!
seriously?
really when me see rec, i cant understood sometimes what was pressed, especially when bike is turning. it would very help. hmm :?
But imo need to do it only for times, which have recs, to honest.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by pawq »

Andry, i think you misunderstood some things. As Kopaka said above, this feature has been there fo years, so it's definitely not new. There is no development going on for the old site.

And no, it's not oke. The point is that you should NOT know this information, because it's giving out secret styles.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by bene »

I've used it to figure out secret styles but I already know all of them anyway :bear:

This should be disabled. I thought it was disabled for internals already.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Zweq »

The bigger question is that should elma community finally start to think about moving towards real time wrs and public wr recs (idea stolen from Spef). Or do we keep our wr table-nostalgia and keep hiding everything, in that case yes, this detailed time info should be hidden, or at least the number of volts and throttle / brake times. Although, the damage has been done already.
Last edited by Zweq on 22 May 2018, 10:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by bene »

I think we should have real time wr tables and public recs. But as it is now it should be disabled.

We might still want this disabled because if someone is going for wr with a new style (like dani) he wouldn't want mans checking stats figuring out and stealing his wr like ass.

Public wr recs doesn't mean you can't have a hidden style to wr with.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by AndrY »

imo no need real time wr tables. maybe need update them in one time (once in month for example).
and don't agree with public recs too.

zweq, are u mean this question? :
1) save all like it is now (all hidden, each is playing for himself)
2) or share all recs and try to find optimal styles for each internal together?

first variant is better imo.

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btw (ye imo me misunderstood some things :? ), are there any cheat programs, where you can set (time + pressed button) array, and create rec from this?
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by ArZeNiK »

just soem nab opinion there, imo we should switch to real-time wrs and all ppl shown and all shared recs and shiet when the competition decreases even moar, this could be in some low 202x imo but i hope not
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by edahl »

Zweq wrote: 22 May 2018, 10:12 The bigger question is that should elma community finally start to think about moving towards real time wrs and public wr recs (idea stolen from Spef).
Not that it effects me directly, but this seems like a pretty damn good suggestion.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Cold »

I find it's also a good way to see if it's a cheated time.
I have no idea why no one removed my time from int 1 that I made in 2013 which was obviously by mistake.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Hosp »

times seems to never really be removed from db, they pop up again somehow, so, this happens when people use cheats online and it's NOT nice: Image
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Zweq »

my new wave 1:16 was ultra permadeleted and disk formatted faster than a :bear: can say raa meanwhile pipe is infested with bug rides, go figure!
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Kopaka »

Cold wrote: 23 May 2018, 02:54 I find it's also a good way to see if it's a cheated time.
I have no idea why no one removed my time from int 1 that I made in 2013 which was obviously by mistake.
I mean you could tell someone about it :roll:
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Zero »

Cold wrote: 23 May 2018, 02:54 I find it's also a good way to see if it's a cheated time.
I have no idea why no one removed my time from int 1 that I made in 2013 which was obviously by mistake.
Yeah sure, by mistake. This kind of shit is so pointless and a waste of time for everybody. :evil:
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Hosp »

01. wujekstyle 14.07 need be removed, also int02 Redline time driven with berhs 1.2 speed cheat, probably his int01 too
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Ramone »

I had no clue, I know Ive heard all rec data saves but never thought it was public data.

Anyway, real time wrs could be good. Public wr recs might be a bit problematic. If you find a new style and goes for wr and then when (if) get it anyone can see rec and possibly improve and get wr before stylefinder (or the one who is using the style anyway) managed to attain desired time. Real time wr table seems better anyway, many ppl did wrs that never made it to table cause of px traveling.

On the other hand it would fuckup wr stats (some ppl are really into this). Ofc there would still be stats but "most wr in one table" etc would dissapear. Would real time updates generate wr table nr? Keep going uo from current #3xx table? Id prefer kinda freeze last old school table in moposite and link to new real time table (Eol I assume, or new EOL when/if it comes) kinda like its frozen on elastomania.com. And then start with #1 and go up one nr for each new wr. Would be cool way to scroll wrs and see dates for each new wr.

If public replay Id say at least give it a time frame of (for instance) a month before rec is updated (could also be good cause when real time updates you have a month to submit rec and if not done in month should be removed). Also when rec is sent/uploaded it should be verified and then wr has a note on wr table "verified". So it can be verified way before rec goes public. Rec info should ofcbe hidden during this time frame (time for player to improve.

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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by pawq »

The 1-month window before the rec is published was also suggested by other people. Seems like a cool idea to my, but ofc i'm not one of those affected =)

As for WR tables, I was thinking that we could maybe go up to table #400 on Moposite since it's a cute round number and freeze it then, moving on to automatic tables on elmaonline.net?

I think a could compromise between having real-time WRs and WR stats would be to have weekly WR tables, kinda like non-WR times are released now. I know it's not exactly real-time, but the chance of people missing out on WRs goes down to almost nothing (what are the odds that two people will beat the same WR within a week...?), and it would still give us stats etc. Tho I guess that chance of missing out on a WR is still there (can imagine it happening between Zweq and Mielz in Hooked for example), so maybe not the best solution.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Kopaka »

Ramone wrote: 23 May 2018, 10:48On the other hand it would fuckup wr stats (some ppl are really into this). Ofc there would still be stats but "most wr in one table" etc would dissapear.
WR stats based on table numbers are flawed anyway, "most wr in one table" is easier if px happened to be away and delayed update an extra week. You can have stats based on real time they were driven, so something like "most wr's in one week/month", and those can be backwards compatible as well.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by farnsworth »

My onion on this matter is nothing, but a shared wr table would making it more fun for us noobs, to see you boys trying to beat each other for very little, just to :beer:

I could imagine it being trivial after so many years, but I still see grannies and granddaddies trying to beat each other in other sports :beer:
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by edahl »

Kopaka wrote: 23 May 2018, 12:58 WR stats based on table numbers are flawed anyway, "most wr in one table" is easier if px happened to be away and delayed update an extra week. You can have stats based on real time they were driven, so something like "most wr's in one week/month", and those can be backwards compatible as well.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by edahl »

For whatever reason I thought real time wrs meant adding another digit. The table format is fine imo.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Grace »

pawq wrote: 23 May 2018, 11:23 I know it's not exactly real-time, but the chance of people missing out on WRs goes down to almost nothing (what are the odds that two people will beat the same WR within a week...?), and it would still give us stats etc. Tho I guess that chance of missing out on a WR is still there (can imagine it happening between Zweq and Mielz in Hooked for example), so maybe not the best solution.
I think that this isn't actually the case. There have been many examples of multiple people beating a WR within a week in the past. Was recently talking about int52 hoyl sessions when Zweq/Jarkko/Kazan were all hoyling WRs in that lev and WR got beaten many times over quite a few months.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Mielz »

Holy shit what is this, was it really public all the time o,o

My opinion about these statstics is go hide them probably, yes surely it did some harm already, but maybe we could stop continuing this at least? About that whole public vs not public WRs/recs I am for giving the choice to WR holder like it was all the time, but shortening the time when the rec is autopublished to ~6 months. It would keep the good old elma spirit, having fun from the WR happening two times, both when you see the time on the new WR table as well as seeing the actual ride. Even though I have chosen to play shown and comment live when hoyling WRs lately, with the last int53 exception (but the .92 with old style was shown still).

And if anyone asked me, I didnt know about this until yesterday, I have found int53 on my own just by re-trying old ideas and finding out something was actually possible, knowing only the new WR table time. Very props to Zweq again for doing so without sach knowledge. Oh and also, even if it seems we found same stuff, we cant be 100% sure about it still, there can be some minor but noticable differences also :P
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by danitah »

In case anyone has any doubt, which would be understandable, Mielz got 16.66 before any time data for times better than previous WR was public on eolsite.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Zweq »

Mielz wrote: 24 May 2018, 14:08 And if anyone asked me, I didnt know about this until yesterday, I have found int53 on my own just by re-trying old ideas and finding out something was actually possible, knowing only the new WR table time.
cool, my guess was that you used the info because supervolt count 1->0 is kinda big hint, but i also knew you or team speed in co-op could easily find it by just cruising.
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by milagros »

the site has some features which can show you someone has beaten a wr
go figure:)
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Re: Public detailed time data for some internals is basically the same as seeing the rec

Post by Schumi »

so someone has beaten atleast one wr :)
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