berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

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berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by roope » 8 Dec 2018, 22:55

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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by Grace » 9 Dec 2018, 00:43

I'm in a bit of a rush as I have a performance to get to shortly, but I just watched this and have some few words about this. I'll write more later when I have more time.

I think this is a nice gesture and definitely seems quite genuine to me; and I fully understand your feelings. It's quite a strange community here in the past and quite a few people have made some mistakes through immaturity only to continue being accepted in the community afterwards. Perhaps for a while you had some quite toxic attitudes and actions, but it was only a short time really and most of the time you were being more annoying than damaging.

That said, if you ever weren't welcome in the community, you wouldn't BE in the community. But, you are, and I think that represents that people are overall completely happy to have you around and involved; and I think there was only ever a few months where that wasn't the case (nearly a decade ago now). I think you stopped the dumb shit years and years ago and it's well in the past in my eyes.

Nonetheless, I appreciate the reasoning and value behind your statement. I'm quite prepared to say that I don't think the "berh" name evokes any chaos in my mind, and I hope that puts your mind at ease a bit. I had no idea until recently that "misz" was you and I found this randomly skilled "misz" guy in EOL quite skilled, kind and enjoyable to chat with in short interactions. :beer:

I hope you enjoyed PEM.
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by milagros » 9 Dec 2018, 04:04

didn't listen yet, but fuck you berh
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by FinMan » 9 Dec 2018, 10:53

might listen but fuck you regardless
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by Tigro » 9 Dec 2018, 11:54

Grace wrote:I had no idea until recently that "misz" was you
Wait. WHAT?

hi berh.
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by kuchitsu » 9 Dec 2018, 14:45

I have to say I found it surprisingly short. I mean, a lot of stuff happened over the years and now people get this very condensed summary with a quick apology. And the way roope presented it with no context whatsoever also made it look kinda weird and incomplete. I didn't even know the misz thing before reading Grace's post. I'm not criticizing and I understand that it's really hard to give speeches like this. I just want to say that I would like berh to elaborate on his feelings about this whole situation. He seems sincere but I believe there are more things he needs to express before we can all move on.

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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by Tigro » 9 Dec 2018, 15:23

kuchitsu wrote:
9 Dec 2018, 14:45
I have to say I found it surprisingly short. I mean, a lot of stuff happened over the years and now people get this very condensed summary with a quick apology. And the way roope presented it with no context whatsoever also made it look kinda weird and incomplete. I didn't even know the misz thing before reading Grace's post. I'm not criticizing and I understand that it's really hard to give speeches like this. I just want to say that I would like berh to elaborate on his feelings about this whole situation. He seems sincere but I believe there are more things he needs to express before we can all move on.
I find this very douchebaggy.
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by kuchitsu » 9 Dec 2018, 15:33

I would like you to elaborate as well then. :o

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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by FinMan » 9 Dec 2018, 17:14

Berh always seemed sincere and friendly etc. Yet I could name 5 people that fell for him and found out to be stabbed in the back the next moment.
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by Zweq » 9 Dec 2018, 19:26

when was the last time berh did something shitty anyway? like 8 years ago? or am i missing something? maybe it's time for everyone to move on
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by milagros » 9 Dec 2018, 22:53

Zweq wrote:
9 Dec 2018, 19:26
maybe it's time for everyone to move on
it's like having a shitty girl-friend in the past
you move on, but you don't want her to be anywhere near you
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by ROKKEBOL » 10 Dec 2018, 11:04

Zweq wrote:
9 Dec 2018, 19:26
when was the last time berh did something shitty anyway? like 8 years ago? or am i missing something? maybe it's time for everyone to move on
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by Ramone » 10 Dec 2018, 12:20

As I remember it berh hacked EOL site during WC601 and told ppls times before event was over.

Also, maybe he have changed, maybe he could be in scene now. But, ppl just seems totally unaware of what happened.

Someone here said it was only for a couple of months... Yeah, right.

At least for me, if berh were to be accepted by scene, at least he should write down in detail everything he has done, so ppl know the full story. Only then can they make their call.

Some idiot also said he was mostly being annoying and not actually doing any harm. Get your facts straight ffs!
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by Ramone » 10 Dec 2018, 12:22

Very weak speech. Kinda brushed it off like
"I never meant any harm"
"I ALWAYS liked scene"

To be accepted man teh fuck up and tell the full story.
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by Zero » 10 Dec 2018, 13:11

The speech seemed sincere for sure and I agree that we should all move on here but I think Ramone is right.

A lot of shit has happened throughout years and a detailed explanation would be in order to avoid confusion and to emphasize the amount of extra work that has been done just as a result of all of this. All of which without getting a penny. Because of all that effort we have been able to play EOL without many problems at all for all these years and it has been truly amazing!

Thanks so much for that Kopaka, Milagros, Markku and others! :beer:
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by umiz » 11 Dec 2018, 17:29

I see Berhabdul has finally listened to my words: be kind, it's kinda nice. I do not know if he remembers this. But i talked/chat alot with him some years ago. Anyway, I think it's a nice gesture of him in a generally kind community. So please everyone, be kind, its kinda nice. I doubt he will do evil things after this umiz salvation.

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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by abruzzi » 12 Dec 2018, 00:05

Hello guys, now as PEM has ended I have more time to respond. Obviously many people made mistakes in the scene, but my behaviour wasn't just a simple 'mistake', but a continuous activity aimed for harming the belma, EOL, battles, contests, websites, etc. At times one could compare it to a full-time job with a decent degree of devotion. For sure neither it can be forgiven by each and every one of you nor my guilt can be cleared easily.

Sounds stupid, but somehow I acted like a bad guy and at the same time I didn't actually mean all the words I said or even the things I did as I was still close with some guys and during my ups I even tried to be productive for the scene, what many of my fellow compatriots can confirm. Finman noticed that I had been forgiven several times yet I was still doing the same after some time. Milagros couldn't have put it better making a comparison to some shitty ex-gf.

However, I'm not expexcting to be forgiven by everyone, or to become a local hero, or to be welcome at FEM anysoon or ever. I thought that at an official Elma Meeting I would have a great opportunity to confess and to make it clear I regret those creepy times and that I want to make up for them as much as possible.

My apology maybe wasn't exhaustive, but I didn't want to prepare anything beforehand as it would probably sound artificial, moreover the stream was mainly for the diplomas ceremony, so I kind of felt bad with the thoughts I would take more time than the actual winners. Also, we were in hurry to start the Onion Cup.

Therefore the only thing I want to ask for now is to be allowed to play with my old nickname, today I made a donation for the server as 'berho', will have to ask Kopaka later if it went through. As Abula said - the time will tell if the bias situation is still fixable.

Once again thanks for Kopaka and milagros for the incredible work which keeps the unbelievable community in unlikely shape as the game is quite elderly. Thanks for providing us the private server for the meeting and being around all the time to resolve any problem. I can only have tears in my eyes when I put your unconditioned kindness against my evil throughout.
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by culinko » 12 Dec 2018, 22:08

I forgive you 8)
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by analcactus » 13 Dec 2018, 06:20

Not that I had a vote here yet, but I would love to read the history of deeds, the majority of which past behind me.
I myself was acting weird hostile and weird for big periods of time when I was active in Elasto Mania, renaming myself Hitler, making swastika levels, and so on. But I never meant to be fascist in any way, never meant to irl insult anyone, that was just mascot, not sure if that is the right word but i orka google translate.
After watching this video I am just inspired, because damn, this community is so outstanding! Can't really imagine such stuff in other games anyhow.
Have a good day everyone :beer:
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by pawq » 13 Dec 2018, 16:46

Time to share my thoughts on this too. I've been in the scene long enough to have been affected by berh's adventures, but I certainly wasn't impacted as much as some others. A long time has passed, I chatted to berh a couple of times, then we had a pre-PEM skype group call, and then we met... And my main impression is that he's a norm cool guy. Initially I may've been a little reserved, but through all of PEM I saw not a hint of bad intentions from him, not towards others and not towards anything else. Maybe a slightly odd sense of humour at times, but nothing too out of the ordinary. We talked quite a bit and it was... just normal. (In the good sense.) I also noticed a fair amount of guilt and shame about the past when talking to him, or when he talked about the upcoming speech.

That's my impression of berh from the meeting, but at the same time, it's very hard to forget all the things he's done. I guess I could say that I've forgiven him (though because of recent non-elma related events I'm increasingly unsure about the meaning of this word), but I can't just erase the past from my head. Can't forget the times I couldn't play belma (as in, at all), because he would keep disconnecting me, or the hateful, tear-inducing posts on lauta... I don't mean to rant now, or to write a litany, but I felt like I needed to bring up a couple of personal examples. I can understand people who were affected much more than me, who were perhaps even targeted individually, who can't forgive and still don't want to hear about berh. I too think that mila's comparison to an ex-gf is very accurate.

As for the speech itself, I think it's good that it wasn't rehearsed, and I also got the impression that it was honest. But to be frank, it also felt short to me. Short relative to the massive story behind it. I have to admit that I would also like to see a "litany" of berh's wrongdoings, but I think it could only come from him. I think the apology, though honest, feels incomplete without a proper admission. Apologising for "everything" feels almost like brushing it off. I know you meant it berh, but perhaps it would seem more sincere and genuine if it was "backed up" by a broader statement on what exactly you apologise for. Countless angers had been induced and countless hours had been spent because of those things... I think the newer kuskis deserve to know about this too. Ramone put it nicely I think, "man teh fuck up and tell the full story".

As for playing with your old nick, I'm all for that, since it's been known (and allowed) for a long time that you played as misz anyway. All mods who shared the opinion so far agree, so I think you can go ahead and submit a nick change request on EOL.



So, to sum up, thanks for your speech and being open about it berh, I think it helps, and it was nice to meet you, but sadly it won't be enough to make everyone accept you straight away. If you keep at it though, I believe eventually it will yield the result you're hoping for!

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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by milagros » 13 Dec 2018, 23:58

eol could have been better, if i didn't have to waste time on stupid shit
secondary effect of stupid shit is also loss of motivation
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by ile » 14 Dec 2018, 08:15

dont mind me, just a newfag passing by

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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by Mielz » 16 Dec 2018, 16:37

No words would make berh a loved person by everyone, obviously. It shouldn't be expected that mila, Kopaka, and all the admins/mods/harmed in any way mans in the scene, would instantly forgot about all the issues from the past. If I was hurt more personally, it would be harder for me as well probably.

What I can say though is, berh feels like a really kind and genuine man irl. Preety much anyone present at PEM could confirm this. Noone is perfect and noone will ever be, it really seems like his past behaviour is what he is ashamed for, he has been friendly only for quite a long time already. He does have my respect, and I wish him all the best now.
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by jblaze » 18 Dec 2018, 01:23

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by gimp » 28 Dec 2018, 03:43

You didnt do anything to me directly, but you did waste time for the 'leaders' around here. I cant speak for them, but when I have been hurt by somebody, words are usually not enough. Actions speak louder than words as they say, so give it time, keep being a good guy - maybe after a few years you can get your nickname back.
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by zebra » 1 Jan 2019, 11:43

I agree that berh's behaviour has been unacceptable and is really hard to forgive. I also remember that he ruined many battles which I tried to play or arrange.

On the positive side, at some period of time it was a positive thing: I was so addicted to Elma that I wanted to cut down my playing time. Berh's actions made Elma playing impossible or at least less interesting so I didn't play so much and gradually got rid of my addiction :)
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Re: berhabdul's speech at Polish Elma Meeting

Post by jblaze » 6 Jan 2019, 04:33

i have condoned being called a kiddo + already bought my lollipop.

forgiven.
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
(Devann) u are the master of your own universe. remember that

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