FEM2019: 11.-18.7.!

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FEM2019: 11.-18.7.!

Post by nick-o-matic » 14 Apr 2019, 10:25

Welcome to exotic, beautiful and wild Karelia to be my guests in our (ex) onion (ex) dairy farm! The FEM venue will be at the attic of our old cowhouse, which is now being organized for this purpose. Compared to Virri it is more spacious and naturally more well-ventilated. The sleep and food-related activities will take place in our house, and also two rooms in the granaries will be available for sleeping. In overall there are more beds than in Virri, but the amount of extra mattresses and particularly blankets and pillows is not so high, so it would be great people arriving by cars could take their own blankets and pillows and possibly also the mattress. Also the camping option is a good idea if you can take a tent.

Who is coming?
  • adi Image
  • A.K.B. Image (full time)
  • bene Image (7 nights, 11.-18.)
  • danitah Image (full time)
  • FinMan Image
  • Haamu Image
  • igge Image (3 nights, Thu-Sun)
  • insane guy Image (3 nights, Fri-Mon)
  • jblaze Image (6 nights, 11.-17.)
  • jonharkulsykkel Image (full time)
  • Kortsu Image (weekend)
  • Kopaka Image (6 nights, Friday - Thursday)
  • Lousku Image (full time)
  • Luther Image (full time)
  • nick-o-matic Image (full time)
  • Pawq Image (full time)
  • Ramone Image (7 nights, 11.-18.)
  • Markku Image (full time)
  • Mielz Image (6 nights, 11.-17.)
  • Orcc Image (4 nights, Fri-Tue)
  • roope Image (4 nights, Thu-Mon)
  • Ruben Image (full time)
  • Stini Image (4 nights, 12.-16.)
  • Spef Image (9.-18., helping in organizing)
  • terb0 Image (three nights, 11.-14)
  • veezay Image + Antti Image (full time)
  • vender Image (1 night, Sun-Mon)
  • zebra Image (3 or 4 nights, starting from Thursday)
  • Zero Image (full time)
  • Zweq Image (10.-18., helping in organizing)
High chances (waiting for confirmation):
  • talli Image
Medium chances (waiting for update):
  • Abula Image
  • Bbl Bce Cyku Image
  • chris Image
  • Frosty (DeaD_MoroZ) Image
  • ILKKA Image
  • mr Image
  • Pab Image
  • Suharice Image
  • Zox Image
Slim chances (waiting for update):
  • Hosp Image
  • Ismo Image
  • Smibu Image
Waiting for info:
  • axxu Image
  • Bjenn Image
  • Boomer Image
  • csorfab Image
  • farnsworth Image
  • Frostidllo Image
  • dz Image
  • Harald Hasch Image
  • Honza Image
  • J-Sim Image
  • kzon Image
  • Mats Image
  • milagros Image
  • Mira Image
  • niN Image
  • Olliz Image
  • Polarix Image
  • pseudo Image
  • Quantz Image
  • Stooq Image
  • Tigro Image
  • Tisk Image
  • TL Image
  • Xarthok Image
What is it like in FEM?

To see it perhaps the best way is to check the pictures of previous FEMs, kindly provided to us by Markku:
http://mm.1g.fi/kuvat/FEM2014/
http://mm.1g.fi/kuvat/FEM2015/
http://mm.1g.fi/kuvat/FEM2016/
http://mm.1g.fi/kuvat/FEM2017/
http://mm.1g.fi/kuvat/FEM2018/

FEM spreadsheet

This google docs spreadsheet is to keep track of different plans and needed things:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

When is FEM?

FEM will be one week from Thursday 11.7. to Thursday 18.7.. Since it is my home and it is not rented, you can stay there also before and after FEM and perhaps do some tourism in Finland and use it as your base. You also may help in arranging/cleaning if you stay extra there =) Anyway, the main point is that it is possible to be flexible with your flights and other travel.

Tourism in Eastern Finland

Especially for people coming from other countries or more faraway parts of Finland I would recommend to do some local sightseeing. I did my best to create a semi-comprehesive list of sights to you.

Koitsanlahti village:

Parikkala sculpture park (2km) Café Iloinen pässi (2km)
  • https://www.iloinenpässi.fi/
  • Local food and souveniers
  • For example bison burgers (there is a local bison farm, mb poss go there too)
Border zone signs (1-2km)
  • Signs that tell you not to go any further to the border zones
  • Do not go any further
Local berry farm (4km) Koitsanlahti manor (Koitsanlahden hovi) (3km) Orthodox-Karelian graveyard of Koitsanlahti Parikkala/Rautjärvi/Punkaharju: Uimola smoke sauna (30km) Hinkanranta smoke sauna (67km) Kollaa and Simo Häyhä museum (30km) Papinniemi camping (60km) Simpele antique and collecting summer event 13.-14.7. (10km) Eastern Finland: Savonlinna opera festival (70km) Lappeenranta (90km) The finance part

Attending FEM will again cost something this year, but I don't know the exact prices yet. We do not do any renting this year, but things like electricity will still cost for my parents. Also there will be some expenses in the organizing part as it will be necessary to buy some stuff. Also I am planning to have weekend work parties to clean and organize the FEM venue, and I am going to offer food from the FEM payments and free attendance for the participators. Moreover, by showing up early for doing the last organizing things or staying late for cleaning and re-organizing might free yourself from the attendance fees.

How to get there?

Image

If you are not coming by a car or carpooling you should first get yourself to Helsinki by plane or ferry and then take a bus/train.

Trains from Helsinki:
https://www.vr.fi/cs/vr/en/frontpage
Price 19€ (if you book early) to ~50€ (if you book late).

Busses from Helsinki (Onnibus):
http://www.onnibus.com/en/index.htm
Price ~10€ (if you book early) to ~20€ (if you book late).
Only the 17:00 departures go all the way to onion farm (rest of them stop at Lappeenranta).

Busses from Helsinki (norm busses):
https://www.matkahuolto.fi/fi/
Price 19€ (constant price (I think??)).

Optionally, you can also fly to Lappeenranta if the few flights that exist match for you:
Arriving flights
Departing flights

If these options work for you, Lappeenranta would be the most convenient option. You basically get out of plane, show passport and get through quick security check (Lappeenranta airport is more like a bus station than an airport), take a shuttle bus or walk to train/bus station (they are close) and in one hour you are at onion farm.

You can even arrive from St. Petersburg. There are busses to Lappeenranta and Imatra and you can get a train ticket all the way to onion farm as well (train change in Kouvola).

Image

After you are in either Simpele or Parikkala, someone will pick you up. Simpele is preferable if you come from the south. However, not all trains stop in Simpele since this year, so you might have to go all the way to Parikkala. But all the busses stop there.

If you come by car, there are two possible gravel road routes to our farm, shown on the map. However, if you are coming from Parikkala direction or go to Parikkala to do shopping, please avoid the one small bit of road drawn in this map. It is being maintained by a local farm, and they collect fees from villagemans that use it (it is norm system in Fin countryside). However, we don't pay anything to them so we should avoid traffic which can be related to us on that road.

Is there going to be some rules or other kind of boring stuff?

Yes. FEM is a big community for one week, and as a by-product of fun fun fun there are also plenty of tasks that need to be done to keep things rolling and the place in non-chaotic condition. Most improtantly:
  • Please recycle - there will be own bins for norm waste, cardboard, biowaste, metal and glass. Also bottles and cans worth deposit money will be and as per tradition, they will be returned to the shop and obtained funds will be used as cabin rent money.
  • Please contribute to keeping the place organized. This includes
    • taking the trash out
    • emptying the dishwasher
    • making the dishes
    • keeping the fridge organized (There has been some problems with the fridge space during the last two years. So please try to use fridge space reasonably and organizedly. Drinks can be stored in an outside ground cellar. It's not as cool as fridge but you can take some drinks from the ground cellar to the fridge or freezer shortly before you use them. Also when you leave make sure that you are not leaving anything to the fridges, or if you do, please make sure everyone know that those items are for everyone)
    • all other kind of miscellaneous cleaning and organizing of the place
  • Please contribute to end cleaning before you leave. In each FEM the biggest problem has been that at the end there are massive amounts of trash and dishes everywhere and unlabeled food items in the fridges which means hours of work for the last mans standing. So when you leave please take some trashes out and/or do dishes and make sure you are not leaving any unlabeled food items in the fridges. If you don't want to take some foods with you please donate them for common good or throw them away.
Other ways to contribute include:
  • Returning the empty bottles and cans to the supermarket and giving the €€€ to me (for FEM-money)
  • Boiling some cofe if there's no cofe left
  • Making common food
  • Taking care of warming the wood sauna
  • Most importantly: contributing to the program and competitions or at least making battles for EOL if there isn't anything else going on - the meeting is about Elasto Mania after all =)
Last edited by nick-o-matic on 6 Jul 2019, 19:29, edited 42 times in total.

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Re: FEM2019: When? Please vote for dates!

Post by nick-o-matic » 14 Apr 2019, 10:46

About the working parties to organize and clean the cowhouse attic: I have started to clean and organize it already, and even though there is not anything like impossible amount of work to do, any help is really appreciated. Anyone can come any weekend I am there myself, but it would be great to manage to arrange a working party event with several attendants to also have some activities along the lines of saunaing/elmaing, like a mini-FEM. You will have to pay the travel yourself but food will be offered from FEM money pool and there will be no attendance fee afterwards. I am hoping that there could be one event like this at some weekend in May, any volunteers? :D

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Re: FEM2019: When? Please vote for dates!

Post by pawq » 14 Apr 2019, 13:48

nick-o-matic wrote:
14 Apr 2019, 10:46
You will have to pay the travel yourself but food will be offered from FEM money pool and there will be no attendance fee afterwards.
inb4 all FEM attendees come, so you have to pay them for food and nobody's gonna pay for FEM later :P


Great post nick-o-matic, looking forward to the dates being selected! For obvious reasons I won't be able to come to help with organising, but I'm very high chances for FEM itself :)

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Re: FEM2019: When? Please vote for dates!

Post by zebra » 17 Apr 2019, 13:19

Thanks for the info, nick-o-matic! It's very nice that you are offering this onion farm as venue for the FEM2019!

I visited nick-o-matic and this onion farm last winter and I think this is a good place to organize FEM. The 'attic' or 'barn' or whatever it should be called, is bigger than Virri cottage but it's open-ended so if we get cold weather, it will be quite cold also in the attic. But if it's going to be as hot as it was in previous FEM, there won't be any problem :) But make sure to take some warmer clothes, just in case.

I'm not yet sure when we (my family) are coming to Simpele/Koitsanlahti but hopefully I can come to FEM2019 for at least day or two!
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Re: FEM2019: When? Please vote for dates!

Post by pawq » 17 Apr 2019, 13:51

zebra wrote:
17 Apr 2019, 13:19
it's open-ended
Ah, that's new! No problem if it rains?

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Re: FEM2019: When? Please vote for dates!

Post by nick-o-matic » 18 Apr 2019, 11:17

pawq wrote:
17 Apr 2019, 13:51
zebra wrote:
17 Apr 2019, 13:19
it's open-ended
Ah, that's new! No problem if it rains?
It's not exactly open-ended. It is similar to Virri cowhouse attic in terms of openness, i.e., the walls are just boards. It can contain a little bit of heat so it's going to be more warm than outside if there are plenty of people and computers. It now looks like it is going to be around the 12.-14.7. weekend and cold enough weather to cause problems is unlikely. Probably you will just need a long-sleeved shirt in late night hoyling sessions if it gets close to +10 outside. Too hot weather is far more likely problem, but in that case the situation is going to be miles better than in Virri because you can open the big doors.

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Re: FEM2019: When? Please vote for dates!

Post by Kopaka » 20 Apr 2019, 22:18

Looking good. Just writing here to bump the thread. Since we're a bit late with planning this year (for good reasons) it would be nice if people would answer the poll sooner rather than later, so a decision can be made for the sake of those who need to plan vacation days and airplane tickets etc. And if you know of any who may not see it here but may come, send it to them somehow.

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Re: FEM2019: When? Please vote for dates!

Post by niN » 22 Apr 2019, 21:10

Would be very nice to join... Not to play elma but to chill and hang out.

I will see what dates you guys decide and if I can come for some days.
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Re: FEM2019: When? Please vote for dates!

Post by nick-o-matic » 25 Apr 2019, 11:32

Wow niN, would be sick to have you there :)

Thanks for the bump Kopaka, we got one more answer but it did not change anything. It really looks like that the best option is around the 12.-14.7. weekend. So far it is not okay only for Zero and he can rearrange stuff so even he should be able to come. This time should be good anyway since it is almost surely warm and the night is very long, which is a nice experience for foreigners coming from south! Just for insaneguy's disappointment there won't be any berries :D I can show good wild strawberry spots though if it is a good year for wild strawberries. So since it is really late already, let it be this weekend. Now the starting / ending dates should be decided (unline in Virri, these dates can now be flexible), so there's a new doodle poll for that purpose:

https://doodle.com/poll/yksrcabfhqxequ5i
  • Green = I want to be at FEM at these dates.
  • Yellow = I want to be at FEM at these dates but might not make it.
  • Please add comments to the comment section at the bottom of the page (or to here) if your situation is more complicated.
  • In this poll I have left open the theoretical possibility of two-weekend FEM if there's interest for a very long FEM like in 2014, when it was 10 days and two weekends.
The most likely outcome will be something like 10.-17.7., so if you already want to get cheap tickets, you can do it now. If it turns out to be something like 11.-18.7. instead, there's no worries, because you can stay at our farm anyway as my guest. In general if you want to help organizing/cleaning up you can come early/leave late. The earliest you can arrive will be Monday 8.7. because there's my mother's birthday at weekend.

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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Ramone » 2 May 2019, 11:18

Hello dear friends.

I will have vacation when Fem is happening. Due to being me I am unlikely to plan anything way ahead. If Im going it will be a last minute decision. However, it would be nice to hear who and how ppl from Denmark/Sweden will travel east to the beautiful and missed Finland.

So if you know how or when you will go please hit me up and maybe we can arrange some awesome cotravelling. Also if you kinda maybe wanna go but do not know how or if, hitting me up could be a good thing. I am not a planner, nor an organizer. But once (read "if") anything is decided I am dependable and responsible. Also the journey itself is usually an amazing time and a large part of the meeting.

As it looks right now I think going by air is the way to go, since I dont have a computer. But I do really like the freedom of having my own car and all the excitement of all new wonderful sights it would bring. So, no plans right now, but lets talk and see what could happen.

Since I dont keep up with the scene atm its best to hit me up on other platforms than mopolauta. Also a great thank you to the wonderful mr Johannes for keeping me informed, interested and stoked.

There are so much potential in IRL-Elma and we hardly dug trough the first layer yet. If I come Id like to get a full day for contests and ultra fun that is 100% Elma with no waiting time for sports/sauna/we-will-come-in-five-minutes-ppl. That day Id just non stop make up fun shit and we just go, if you are not there, you are not there. Dont get me wrong, all these other things are amazing, and very needed. But there are usually too much downtime with ppl waiting for the next contest/battle/event. I dont wanna run ppl over (yes, I am aware I might anyway) so a day of Ramone's Elma Fun would be a good thing for many, as it would for me. Also might help me be more relaxed and/or patient the other days.

Tips for Fem19:
Beerbattle needs less idiot/hard/Abula-levs.
More TT battles.
Less down-time-contests. (Ive been a big part of this myself, like the release of HALF (allthough an unplanned accident) that might exclude some ppl from the only-right-now-right-here-amazing-IRL-chaos-that-only-Fem-can-bring. The release of Nice was different because it was kinda like a cool Irl-contest with all the Wtf-moments and generelly loud yellings that makes it all so much fun and makes us feel like a family!

Where is list with planned activities and attendants?
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by bene » 2 May 2019, 19:09

Ramone: I am in Göteborg on 9th July and will travel to FEM from Göteborg on the 10th. If you go by car I would be happy to tag along. Otherwise I will drive from Göteborg to Stockholm and fly from there.

Would need to know pretty soon how you travel to travel with you so we can buy tickets etc and have everything ready.

If I am successful with everything I will have a drivers license and can do some of the driving.
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Ramone » 2 May 2019, 20:56

Tried to call you but was hard without your nr

Thought I had.

Checked ferry? I assume Stena Line Sthlm/Hlsnk?
How much flying vs floating over?
Why not fly from Gbg?

Kinda getting quite stoked rly, should maybe get a pc again... Gahhh!
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by bene » 2 May 2019, 21:43

Ramone wrote:
2 May 2019, 20:56
Tried to call you but was hard without your nr

Thought I had.

Checked ferry? I assume Stena Line Sthlm/Hlsnk?
How much flying vs floating over?
Why not fly from Gbg?

Kinda getting quite stoked rly, should maybe get a pc again... Gahhh!
I can PM you my number. Call me tomorrow.

I didn't check ferry yet. I only checked flight prices. Flying from Gbg was like 2500 SEK for a direct flight, other cheaper options were insane like fly to Riga and wait there for 8 hours and then next flight or change flights twice etc. Compared to I can get a car ride to Stockholm where a direct flight was like 5-600 SEK. I am in Gbg with family and going home on the 10th and they don't mind going by Arlanda on the way home (All prices are excluding luggage cost/other things added to the fee to make it sound cheaper than it is and all prices only cost to go there didn't check return trips).

Checking ferry now:
1460 SEK for 2 adults with car there and same price home. Night ferry both directions. So leave Stockholm at 16:00 and leave Helsinki at 18:00 on the 17th.
I guess the downside of this is that we come there a day late if FEM starts on the 10th so I vote starting on the 11th or later.
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by abruzzi » 6 May 2019, 19:27

hi, we're briefly considering joining the great FEM this year in number of ~5 Poles whereas pawq is quite sure already
therefore i would like to ask if people find it ok for me to join teh too, eventhough my horrible past?
i love the scene, regret everything, and of course would be very happy to be able to do so and have fun with all
if people find it too early or disturbing though, i will understand and continue working hard for years to come
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Orcc » 7 May 2019, 06:44

It would be okay for me, but personally I probably won't be joining this year, so it doesn't really matter.

Maybe this should have an own topic before it turns into a shouting contest (the topic can be split if that happens), but anyway I suppose it'd be best to listen to those guys who will actually attend. Personally I hope that there won't be any "if he comes then I won't come" statements, because it's really annoying to choose between people.
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Lousku » 7 May 2019, 11:06

I'd be happy to meet berh, but if anyone drops out because of this, I'll support and drop out too. And if it becomes a matter of picking between people, berh should definitely be excluded, because this issue is completely his fault.
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?

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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Orcc » 7 May 2019, 12:27

I know he would be the one left out in such case.

In my wedding we had to drop out guests to cut the invitation amount. It was my father who stated that he would not come if certain people would not be invited, who we were initially going to leave out. Like what the fuck? Of course I wouldn't leave my father out but how can someone be so selfish to make such a statement. Surely he apologized later, but that's a really dick move to make.

FEM is not a gang war. There's no need to love everyone but in a big group it's not like a couldn't be around some people who you don't like. If there are several people who are against something it's different, so please share opinions.
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by nick-o-matic » 7 May 2019, 18:16

First of all, sick nice news that so many Poles are considering coming, which is now overshadowed by the berh discussion. Really happy to hear about that. :) Anyway, the berh part is sadly very difficult. Personally for me it would at this point be ok if you came there, berh. That is actually pretty big step for me since back then when you did bully some people and sabotage belma including one of the FF-cups I was truly furious and even hated you, but you behave really differently nowadays, and you have apologized, and I think it should always be possible to forgive if someone is sincerely regretting (well, back in the days you did break the trust given to you few times, but according to other Poles who know you very well IRL, you truly are a max guy nowadays). Anyway, it is not all about forgiving. Imagine if someone bullied you in school and then became a better person and apologized. Even if you sincerely forgave him, you probably still would get some bad feelings and memories by seeing him. So even if everyone in FEM forgave you (which unfortunately probably is not the case), there's likely to be some persons who would not like to spend their holidays with you and thus skip FEM, and that would lead to the really sucky "if he comes I won't come" situation. I would personally hope that these persons could forgive and try to focus on current you, but if they don't, I have to understand and fully support them, I have max respect to them and they have only done positive things for the community, so they should not be given the slightest blame for being too definite because of their decision. In the best case scenario there's no such people anymore and there would not be any problems, but I am afraid there are some people who would not come if you came. In that case it would unfortunately get awkward.

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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Stooq » 7 May 2019, 18:45

Just joining this little discussion as one of berh IRL friends. I fully understand some people that can feel awkward meeting berh after being bullied by him. Moreover I am pretty sure that berh does understand it as well.

Even though I am not quite into elastomania community that deep I considered traveling to FEM this year. I heard many great things about FEM meetings and in some point would love to join that meeting. This is even more true after last PEM meeting which was our Polish mini FEM. Despite fact of people being very welcome to everyone I personally strongly prefer joining FEM together with my Polish colleagues. By making berh presence rather impsy it makes my arrival rather very hypothetical. Not writing here to make any anger on anyone, just stating my personal preference.

Not sure if someone clearly declared absence on FEM when berh comes or if that is just hypothetical. Would be good to not ban berh when there is not big likelihood that someone would really abandon FEM due to berh.

Cheers.

EDITTED: Ok. Now I see very welcome answer from terb.
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by nick-o-matic » 7 May 2019, 20:32

Yes Stooq, I think the situation is not just hypothetical. Anyway Berh is not something like banned for coming, this situation is more like about the unfortunate "I won't come if he comes" thing (+ terb0 probably kicking berh's ass). And now it looks like this might be combined with "I won't come if he doesn't come". I don't know what else to say than that this is a really sad situation. Whatever happens it is going to be bad :(
Orcc wrote:
7 May 2019, 12:27
In my wedding we had to drop out guests to cut the invitation amount. It was my father who stated that he would not come if certain people would not be invited, who we were initially going to leave out. Like what the fuck? Of course I wouldn't leave my father out but how can someone be so selfish to make such a statement. Surely he apologized later, but that's a really dick move to make.

FEM is not a gang war. There's no need to love everyone but in a big group it's not like a couldn't be around some people who you don't like. If there are several people who are against something it's different, so please share opinions.
Btw I think this situation is really different to that wedding thing. Your dad indeed would have been a dick if he wouldn't have came to your wedding. A father should always come to his son's wedding and support the new couple and give an encouraging speech, even if he would be pissed for whatever reason and wasn't particularly having fun there. But in this case nobody has an obligation to come, the whole thing is just a gathering of people in order to have fun. Thus it is fine for anyone not to come if someone else is coming / is not coming, and I can't nor anyone else should put any blame on anyone for that. Ofc a situation like this is still sad though and I would like to see as many people as possible there.

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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Hosp » 8 May 2019, 11:18

I'm unlikely to attend but my thoughts:
Obv there's still bad blood and some cannot forgive berh and it makes sense then to exclude him from the meeting. I personally would only think it was fun if he came. (But it doesn't seem to be a good idea to let him at this point)
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Ramone » 8 May 2019, 19:42

Stooq, I do not think you understand. Its not that "some might find it awkward", or that he said mean things.

He fucking killed belma and almost the scene and game itself.

He did get so many second chances but did not ever respect anyone at all (I am sure he has a different view on what respect means... but well, he is wrong)

He did get a lifetime ban.

But have played still under some new weird fake nick. And for that he is invited back into the scene?

I was really getting psyched about trying to get a new pc and drive/float to Finland with bene. However, if berh comes just tell me now. I wont bother, I am not in anyway calm, cool and collected, with berh there Id just ruin the fun for everyone including myself, excluding berh cause he gets off on shit like that. Fuck you!

Why is it a problem if ppl say "if he comes I wont?" Ppl use their well earned vacation days to travel to an amazing host at an amazing event. And why the fuck should he be there!?!!??
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Ramone » 8 May 2019, 19:50

Wtf Idiot beeh!?

Why in the fuck do you even ask?

G T F O !

Probably should not go. Even if i go and berh wont ppl will think its my fault yada yada

And I wont be able to relax.

Also, is that moron around EOL agsin?
Then no need look into getting a pc at all.

He has a life-time ban ffs

He fucked up alot during wc6, not thst long ago. Many years after got banned. Usually a ban is revoked if it is unjust or due to good behaviour. From what I can see he ignored ban and played online anywsys also fucking hacked eolsite and shared ppls times.

How in the actual fuck is he not bannezd?

Heart megaraising and mood megadropping and plans megafailing.

Just go play X-moto

You do not belong here and you brought it all on yourself.

You are nothing but pathetic.
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by abruzzi » 8 May 2019, 21:23

ok guys didn't want to angrify any terbo or ramone who i respect, i withdraw obviously, so you don't have to be angry
i thought that in a community like we are trying to be - open and welcome to newcomers there is a way back even for people like me, who, due to random brainfarts did very bad things, but understood their huge fault and regret being such an ass in the past

one of the reasons to join the meeting would also be saying sorry to each and every like i did remotely at PEM and trying to prove how much idiot i was and how i don't want to be it that way anymore. even if it would risk 'facing hate' or 'kicking ass'. mentioning all the horrible things live i didn't mention earlier etc.

when back after PEM i donated for the server and apologized Kopaka for the random filthy insults i sometimes threw at him in the past, i had tears in my eyes. not that i very cried but was touched by the relief that it's finally over and the bad things officially came to and end. and guess what. i also felt the relief of Kopaka. relief that the hate was fake, that there isn't really a guy over there actually hating him even though he works very hard for elma. and that his work was appreciated even though it hadn't seemed so. a relief that all this shit came to a let's say happy end, of course obviously it would be best if had never happened

there is a lot of bad things happening in the world and a lot of cruel politicians who deliberately do evil things just because of money etc. great many of such people wouldn't ever admit thier fault even if it was obvious or even on a deathbed. the thing i can offer right now is just this - honesty and slowly but surely, trying to make up for the former wounds. and having in mind the picture of me having fun at FEM with you after having apologized and exhaustingly explained everything if asked - i thought it would benefit not only me but also some of you who were harmed by the belma downtimes - who would see a changed person and also boost some belief in a world where even the worst people ever can come up to a point when they understand their bad times and do everything to make up for. unfortunately that happens rarely

but some of you chose different approach and i have no anger nor any grief up to that. i understood that some people might be still unable to feel perfectly comfortable when i would be around. and it happened.

have a wonderful meeting with as many fresh guests as possible, with pab most probably among them, what shows that the community is perfectly fine and healthy. megaprops to nom who once again does a great job, even involving his family to serve for the good. hope nom's mother will be perfectly fine, the good karma comes back hopefully

thanks for the responses, i only asked with null demand. have fun
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by bene » 8 May 2019, 22:31

Ramone: When call me and plan or post about travel with me here :)
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Ramone » 8 May 2019, 22:40

Bene, planned call today. Wnt here for nr. But saw berhs posts and...
Ill call tomorrow
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by bene » 8 May 2019, 22:49

Me about berh:
I don't mind Berh now, he seems like a guy who obviously did wrong but changed his ways. I have been in the same situation myself. I don't mind him coming to fem. But at the same time I do because of who (At least last year) said they wouldn't want Berh to come. Spoiler: it was not terb0. Maybe they also changed their mind this year or I would use my own opinion more after meeting. I am also very forgiving because:
1. I was not active at the time (Mostly, things happened when I was active but I only heard it as rumor not as a truth)
2. I am forgiving and want to give everyone another chance. I can't let what happened a long time ago when I wasn't there affect my personal judgement and even if I was there I might forgive because I am forgiving. I never gave berh another chance osv.

I think Berh should be welcome and listened to. If he is an asshole we will collectively kick him out like we would with any asshole at fem (This has not happened yet but lousku assured me before last fem that if someone is an asshole and there is an agreement they will be banished and thrown out ass first quicker than spef can finish warm up).

I am in a though position because so many people I trust and love have such an extreme hate for Berh. But at the same time I want to believe :bear:
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by bene » 8 May 2019, 22:53

Ramone wrote:
8 May 2019, 22:40
Bene, planned call today. Wnt here for nr. But saw berhs posts and...
Ill call tomorrow
Skicka your number or text message before call. I suck at answering unknown numbers
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Stooq » 8 May 2019, 23:01

@nick-o-matic thanks for your organizational efforts!

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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Grace » 9 May 2019, 07:38

Obviously I'm not going FEM nor do I have any part in planning. Nonetheless I'm opinionated and quite loud c:

I think that refusing to come because of presence of some other is mindblowing levels of childish. It's an adults only event (many alcohols etc there) and therefore children shouldn't be there, so this problem sorts itself surely?

After this discussion, realistically every single one of you that is there is going to know that terb0 (I can't see terb post but it's referenced in this thread) and Ramone have had toddler tantrum about it, so I doubt any of you are going to be comfortable about it anyway. It's a shame and was totally unnecessary.

It's hard to have a friendly community when you have people causing issues. Exactly as berh caused issues 5+ years ago that have resulted in some Ramone/terb0 getting upset about his return, the approach you are taking to his possible inclusion in this meeting is destructive to the scene and at least in my mind, is not welcome. Credit to Orcc, I like your words in this thread about how berh coming/not coming could be handled, very balanced and thoughtful I think. I quote this bit:
Orcc wrote:Personally I hope that there won't be any "if he comes then I won't come" statements, because it's really annoying to choose between people.
I hope you enjoy the meeting Ramone, you're gonna have to get extra enjoyment out of it for the people who are missing out.
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by nick-o-matic » 9 May 2019, 12:10

Dear all,

First of all, nice post berh, I hope that also Ramone can understand you at least a bit now, and I hope everyone can understand you are not forcing yourself into FEM, since this is getting heated.
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@nick-o-matic thanks for your organizational efforts!

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Stooq wrote:
8 May 2019, 23:01
for "others": http://eolcup.pro/
Grace wrote:
9 May 2019, 07:38
It's hard to have a friendly community when you have people causing issues. Exactly as berh caused issues 5+ years ago that have resulted in some Ramone/terb0 getting upset about his return, the approach you are taking to his possible inclusion in this meeting is destructive to the scene and at least in my mind, is not welcome.
However, please understand Ramone at least to some extent. His post might look immature, but he is obviously a good-hearted person, and he loves the scene and the people there from his each and every heart muscle fibre. Thus there does exist logic behind his reaction:

1) He has not been around with "new berh" really at all, all his berh-memories are from quite long time ago.

2) We should not belittle the extent of berh's baddoings. He arguably basically killed belma and without milagros's EOL work he might really have killed the whole scene, at least internal WR scene for sure. My understanding is EOL would have happened anyway, but he also killed milagros's motivation and EOL would most likely have been better and with more features without berh, maybe mila would also still be playing, dunno? He quite surely made some people to quit, impossible to drop exact names, but statistically this is almost certain.

3) It was 5+ years ago, but the total duration of his bad activity also was 5+ years, and berh was giving at least back then a manipulative / psycopathic impression and after good periods he again kept braking rules. Thus it is logical and reasonable that someone does not believe berh has changed.

4) In overall, Ramone has done anything wrong, he has put thousands of hours into making levs and arranging stuff. Hating berh is the only sin he has done if you consider it as a sin.

In general, it is statistically totally not surprising that after all things he did, not everyone can believe in the new berh and they do see him as a threat to something they love. People think differently and value and experience different things differently, thus the point of believing someone has changed and the point of forgiving and forgetting is different for everyone. In general, in my opinion it is simply wrong to give Ramone a strong counteraction in this complex and sensitive situation.
Grace wrote:
9 May 2019, 07:38
I think that refusing to come because of presence of some other is mindblowing levels of childish. It's an adults only event (many alcohols etc there) and therefore children shouldn't be there, so this problem sorts itself surely?
Grace wrote:
9 May 2019, 07:38
Credit to Orcc, I like your words in this thread about how berh coming/not coming could be handled, very balanced and thoughtful I think.
I understand that the behavior of Ramone and terb0 looks childish. But in general there does exist totally non-childish reasons for not coming in this kind of case. And this case is imo really different to Orcc's wedding example. Let's quote myself:
nick-o-matic wrote:
7 May 2019, 20:32
Btw I think this situation is really different to that wedding thing. Your dad indeed would have been a dick if he wouldn't have came to your wedding. A father should always come to his son's wedding and support the new couple and give an encouraging speech, even if he would be pissed for whatever reason and wasn't particularly having fun there. But in this case nobody has an obligation to come, the whole thing is just a gathering of people in order to have fun. Thus it is fine for anyone not to come if someone else is coming / is not coming, and I can't nor anyone else should put any blame on anyone for that. Ofc a situation like this is still sad though and I would like to see as many people as possible there.
Also consider this scenario: elma people often are quite introverts and insecure, so some of them might become totally exhausted in FEM just because of being surrounded by their best friends, so having any difficulties would be intolerable for these persons.

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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Lousku » 9 May 2019, 12:48

Grace wrote:
9 May 2019, 07:38
I think that refusing to come because of presence of some other is mindblowing levels of childish.
This just makes no sense at all. We're talking about traveling to spend a week of their holidays in close proximity to a person they have perfectly valid reasons to not trust. Do you think they're obligated to do this? FEM is obviously supposed to be optional and fun.
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?

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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Grace » 9 May 2019, 14:07

You're right that there are non-childish reasons to want to avoid being around people you have issues with. Perhaps I over-generalised in my previous post. I appreciate the thoughtful post nick-o-matic; however:
Ramone wrote:
8 May 2019, 19:50
Wtf Idiot beeh!?
Why in the fuck do you even ask?
G T F O !
Probably should not go. Even if i go and berh wont ppl will think its my fault yada yada
And I wont be able to relax.
Also, is that moron around EOL agsin?
Then no need look into getting a pc at all.
...
You do not belong here and you brought it all on yourself.
You are nothing but pathetic.
This is not what that "non-childish" justification looks like. I fully understand people being cautious about allowing berh around again, however taking this approach is horrible and also very damaging to our scene. I expect this from my teenager students having fights in the schoolyard, but I expect better from most people than this. You can dress it up in considered justification all you like nick-o-matic, and you're right to do so - but you are providing rationality to a post that only needs your rationality because it was made with none in the first place.

If you have a problem with berh attending FEM, there are far more simple, respectful and mature ways of handling things. Berh has been that way in all of his comments on this matter. From the very first post he made about it in this thread, he made it clear that if someone wasn't comfortable with him there, he would step out. Even a simple "I would not be comfortable with you being there" would have sufficed and caused no issue at all. Look at how Lousku handled it? Or Orcc? Instead of that, a divisive and vitriolic outburst was given and now put an unnecessary cloud over the event.
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Lukazz » 9 May 2019, 16:59

I agree that Ramone is overreacting, but to be honest I wouldn't want to spend a week with berh either. Not that I was planning to come, but it would definitely be a reason for me not to come. It's not even about the hacking actually, it's being a massive asshole to people for many many years. For those of you who weren't here at the time or can't remember, just scroll through berh's post history from 2008 to 2011 or so here on lauta. He was constantly making fun and insulting people in a very personal way left and right, apparently also threatening to kill people (according to one of Lousku's posts). Why would I want to spend my holidays with someone like that?

From what I can remember his asshole-phases came in waves, there were times when he behaved like a normal human being and then it became worse again, and that's also the main reason why I still don't trust him. I simply wouldn't even be surprised if he goes back to being a jerk again. I wasn't even personally attacked by him, and I wouldn't want to be around him so I can totally understand if there are people who say that they won't come if he comes.
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Ramone » 9 May 2019, 21:06

Since Ruben is such a nice and clearminded man he made me open my eyes and if berh want to come I think he should.

He knows he will get questions, and want to come anywsy, maybe cause of that even. Ill do my best to keep it on a good level. Allthough, I am, as I am sure many of you know, quite emotional, and can sometimes lose hold of all that is reason. But if berh actually changed I should be fine.

Also, the finns are so quiet, need someone to ask him all the hard things ;)

Ill text my nr to bene now, very stoked on going right now. Car + ferry feels like the best option.
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Ramone » 9 May 2019, 21:12

Stoog, its not a threat when ppl say "if x comes I wont".

Its just fact.

Ive been to fem with Luther 2004, 2015 and maybe some other year. Ive met him 100+ times but would not wanna go to fem with him. Still I know it would be great fun. But his history of addiction and my history can make certain situations extremely hard.

I struggle with life, struggled with death. And ppl might have their reasons, valid or not (doesnt matter, still their reasons). But remember, there are reasons for those reactions too, not excuses, reasons. We are all still human.
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by abruzzi » 9 May 2019, 22:54

thank you for the new post and fresh approach ramone, see, it wasn't that hard to change a bit the way of thinking and this is a move forward in my opinion releasing some tension and bringing more love inside

anyway whether you hate me or not you are the person to admire for your incredible passion for the game. your quotes are unique and energetic and fun thing is jblaze knows all of them by heart. watching you encourage ppl to give speeches @ FEM also a fun thing

i don't even mind terb0's aggression if his muscles tell him to be like that. it also has to be noted i'm not scared a tiny bit by his threats

thanks also for Ruben for sharing this story. very well written, quite outstanding and at times scary, but beautiful at the same time

that's what i wanted to propose - to have this finally over and some could maybe benefit from that kind of relief. instead of holding it for forever. sometimes the lifespan is too short to make up in time for everything and it's better to hold together despite hard past. but once again it has to be said i understand if somebody doesn't want me to turn up

the sadder thing would rather be lack of the general will to solve such problems what slightly shifts the FEM towards periodic holiday for certain Finmen rather than a true community meeting

as stated i withdrew already, so nobody has to raise his blood pressure and i was never forcing anything just asked in the most politely possible manner for what i thought would be beneficial for all, also for my fellow Polish kuskis whose chance of coming goes up with each Pole coming (apart from pawq who is almost sure all the time)

maybe i will ask next year if anything changes (20th elma anniversary, maybe something special), thanks anyway for putting your thoughts here
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Grace » 10 May 2019, 08:07

As I am prepared to call out shitty behavior, I also want to applaud the changed approach Ramone shows above. I think we all want FEM to be a cornerstone event for whole community, and as tough as these discussions are, they do need to be had for a better community going forward.
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Lousku » 10 May 2019, 10:41

Lousku wrote:
7 May 2019, 11:06
I'd be happy to meet berh, but if anyone drops out because of this, I'll support and drop out too.
Actually scratch this, I don't trust berh at all and hope I never meet him. All of his posts on this matter stink of manipulation and trying to paint himself as a victim. Yes, FEM is a true community meeting, he just doesn't belong in the community.
then again i don't know anything
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by kuchitsu » 10 May 2019, 12:42

I didn't dare to be the first to say this, but I have to admit it looks like manipulation to me as well. berh seems to be so convinced that he deserves to be treated nicely by the community, as if he already did everything that needed to be done and now it's up to the childish grudge holders to mature and fully accept him back. In this thread he even insists that forgiving him would be beneficial for everyone else, making it sound like he has the moral high ground and people are being unreasonably stubborn. Yeah, he says "I totally understand", but with what I feel is a condescending tone. In particular, "see, it wasn't that hard" really ticked me off, also him "feeling the relief of Kopaka" made it sound almost like he believes he did Kopaka a favor or something.

Anyway, these things are very hard to judge, especially on the internet. It could just be his manner of writing, who knows... If berh is sincere, I think he should try to speak much less with words and much more with actions. And, like... be extremely humble and never ask for forgiveness or anything. IMO if he wants to ever come to FEM, he should just patiently wait for people to invite him instead of asking "so, did you guys finally get over it?" again and again.

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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by abruzzi » 10 May 2019, 12:56

i'm sorry Lousku if you feel that way but i can assure you i'm not a victim here it's my responsibility and i will always state it. even in private conversation when somebody tries to defend me i say the same. i was just asking and of course i expected denial, just maybe put in some other way. thx for info i don't belong here, so maybe i will ask Kopa for some phantom again so nobody feels uncomfy
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by abruzzi » 10 May 2019, 13:16

kuchitsu wrote:
10 May 2019, 12:42
Anyway, these things are very hard to judge, especially on the internet. It could just be his manner of writing, who knows... If berh is sincere, I think he should try to speak much less with words and much more with actions. And, like... be extremely humble and never ask for forgiveness or anything. IMO if he wants to ever come to FEM, he should just patiently wait for people to invite him instead of asking "so, did you guys finally get over it?" again and again.
i think it might be the issue, i really didn't want to be demanding or
berh seems to be so convinced that he deserves to be treated nicely by the community, as if he already did everything that needed to be done and now it's up to the childish grudge holders to mature and fully accept him back
it's just hard to put through some thoughts and everything just by writing. i remember when i apologized publicly @ PEM people attacked me that it was 'too brief' and 'you didn't put everything in detail', whilst i deliberately didn't take too much time mentioning all things one after another so i wouldn't sound artificial or like being proud of them.

also i don't want to sound in a way like i did Kopaka any favour or anything like that, i wanted to say that sometimes different aproach might be better, like look at ramone now, i'm sure that if i hypothetically came to the meeting and we would hug and what not would be more 'beneficial' for us than actually him being nervous year after year about me possibly turning up. same for me, it would close some chapter, and gave me a chance to prove i want to be with you in here.
if he wants to ever come to FEM, he should just patiently wait for people to invite him instead of asking "so, did you guys finally get over it?" again and again.
that's very harsh imo, i definitely tried to avoid sounding this way. what's more i still feel it's WAY to early, but somehow during our internal discussions when pawq thinks it might be his last FEM for some time (moving to Canada prolly) guys convinced me to ask about the possibility

and i expected just nom showing up and just saying yes or no, people still feel bad with that idea etc., and although i am happy too see the approaches i really feel awkward with people using their time to post here, because as i'm stating again it's my fault and i do not demand anything
therefore i would like to ask if people find it ok for me to join teh too, eventhough my horrible past?
i love the scene, regret everything, and of course would be very happy to be able to do so and have fun with all
if people find it too early or disturbing though, i will understand and continue working hard for years to come
and already withdrew after first signs of unwelcomeness
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Kopaka » 10 May 2019, 13:56

He asked, some said no, he accepted it. Can we just move on and talk about fem again. Use the other topic if you have to, but it's sad to see drama is the only time there's this much activity on lauta.

So who's making contests for fem? Anyone else coming?

I'm like 99% coming, but can't decide when I want to take holiday from work, starting either weekend before fem or the fem weekend.

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Pab
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Pab » 10 May 2019, 15:33

I plan to go to FEM this year, tho my current situation is a little uncertain :>
Moved to Barcelona (Spain) few weeks ago, so it' very much possible to go this year and meet you guys, at least for a weekend if time and money give me a thumbs up :>
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Ruben
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Ruben » 10 May 2019, 18:14

Pab wrote:
10 May 2019, 15:33
I plan to go to FEM this year
:O STOKE! I would love to meet you!



But... for my own situation, I will try my hardest to make it, but my own future is very uncertain at the moment, so I can't confirm it quite yet. As I've said before fem is one of the highlights of my year and I really don't want to miss it.
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bene
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by bene » 10 May 2019, 19:03

I am confirmed with Ramone. We will arrive in Ramones car the 11th.
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Ramone
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Ramone » 10 May 2019, 19:14

bene wrote:
10 May 2019, 19:03
I am confirmed with Ramone. We will arrive in Ramones car the 11th.
!Fem19
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Ramone
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by Ramone » 10 May 2019, 19:15

Very stoked!

If I get a pc Ill bring it and then I would have prepared levels. However, benestyle seems good too :)
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ile
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by ile » 11 May 2019, 13:58

wow ramone how have u survived like 1 year without pc? sounds impsy for me

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nick-o-matic
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Re: FEM2019: approximately 10.-17.7.! Please vote for exact dates

Post by nick-o-matic » 16 May 2019, 10:34

Started updating the attendance list :) Stoke :)

Veezay and Antti are most likely coming to help with cleaning of the cowhouse attic next week, which will help a ton <3 However, I need also someone else for some other weekend. So, please, also someone else? :D Also, I would really need 1-3 people to come early (maybe even at Monday 8th of July) and help in the last arranging stage. There wouldn't be heavy duty cleaning left anymore and you don't have to travel twice to our farm, so it should be reasonably ez for anyone, so I really hope to find some people for this task. Also in this case I can of course free you from the FEM fee.

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