Why is berh not banned?

General discussion about the games and the scene.

Moderator: Moporators

Post Reply
User avatar
Ramone
50mins club
Posts: 1951
Joined: 20 May 2002, 15:42

Why is berh not banned?

Post by Ramone » 8 May 2019, 20:08

Why is berh's ban lifted? He did nothing but keep breaking rules. Only reason he tried to say "I'm sorry..." is to get back into scene. There is nothing sincere in that, if he actually was sorry he would stay away and respect that.

If a father abused his child over and over and got punished and actually got better, he would fucking know to stay away. Maybe not what he really wanted, but he would know it is for the best. If he did not get better he would try to manage a way to spend more time with his child. Doesnt matter if berh thinks he has bettered, he still wants to spend time with his child.

So please explain to me what berh did do to get that ban lifted.

Maybe I do not know the full story?

Thanks in advance
Elasto Mania - ez better

User avatar
Kopaka
39mins club
Posts: 6503
Joined: 23 May 2002, 13:59
Team: LAME
Location: In a northern danish city beating YOUR record.
Contact:

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by Kopaka » 8 May 2019, 22:24

So after last PEM we decided to let him play again on original nick. This was not because of the apology per se, but rather it started a renewed discussion regarding his status. In the mod team we came to the following conclusions, and at least everyone who responded agree with them

- At the time it was 5 years since he last offense, which you could argue is long enough for someone to grow up and not be held too much responsible for the past
- We'd rather put it behind us than having to dig up same old negative stuff from the past time and time again
- Don't want to rob someone of the wonder of that is elma
- It's pretty much impossible to ban someone effectively (even big AAA games are not able to) so as long as he's not doing any harm, better to let him play on his original nick than some unknown phantom.
- Trying to include people and treat them maybe even better than deserved, even those who may have done you wrong, is a way to make the world a better place.

So those are the reasons behind not keep trying to ban him. And yes you could easily argue against these reasons, but on the other hand banning him is not going to accomplish anything either. At least this way you can choose to ignore him if you want. And this is not an argument that people should like him or want him at fem, that's totally valid to not. But would suggest to not let it destroy your enjoyment of the scene and focus on the many good things that do happen.

User avatar
Ruben
Kuski
Posts: 815
Joined: 31 Dec 2012, 18:07
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by Ruben » 9 May 2019, 04:24

Let's not pretend that abusing a child and hacking a game are in any way related. I get that you're trying to illustrate a point, but these things are not even on the same planet.

I understand those who resent him, those who will never forgive him, and those who don't want him to attend meetings. However, I don't believe in punishing people for the rest of time, and refuting their attempts at improving themselves, almost regardless of their crime. Forgiving people, and giving them the opportunity to change their behaviour, is one of the most important, and sometimes hardest, tenets of my ideology. So far since the ban was lifted, berh has been respectful and engaging in a positive atmosphere, at least whenever I have been present. The best outcome, both for us and for him, is to allow him at least the opportunity to show that he is remorseful over his past actions, and has grown and changed in the last five years.

I don't know why I'm telling you this, but I'm going to anyway. Here's a story I've barely told anyone:

The seed for this idea of forgiveness and change was first planted in me in 9th grade, when I was beaten up by another boy in class. He was a real asshole, and it worsened whenever any sport was involved. He HAD to win, or so help everybody else. If a ball was involved in any way, he made sure to throw/hit/kick it as hard as he could at the nearest unfortunate victim. Usually accompanied by loud shouting. He was quite muscular and easily the strongest pupil in the school at that point. All of this made all the girls and most of the other boys afraid of him during gym class, so they would usually do whatever they could to get out of his way. Dodgeball (and all similar games) was the worst. Within the first 2 minutes of any game most of the girls on the opposite team had silently sat down on the bench when the referee wasn't looking, to avoid getting hit by his cannon throws.

During one such class, I commented on his behaviour and how it ruined the fun for everbody else. He was livid. He grabbed my shirt and held me up against the wood-panelled wall, and proceeded to hit me in the head a number of times. Every time he hit me, my head would bounce back and hit the wall behind me as well. Bang-bang! Bang-bang! Bang-bang! Bang-bang! Bang-bang! You have to understand that violence was extremely rare in that school, in fact I can't even remember anybody else ever being beaten up during the 10 years I went there. The class was observing in stunned, terrified silence. I don't know how many times he hit me, I was too busy screaming from the pain (and for the hope that he'd stop). It felt like an eternity at the time, even though it must have happened in only the span of a few seconds. Eventually he'd had enough. He lifted me up and threw me into the middle of the floor then left.

I'd never felt so ashamed in my life, helplessly getting the shit beaten out of me as everyone I knew watched on. I got up and left through another door. I cried, mostly from embarrassment, as I called my mum and told her what had happened. She got off work, picked me up and drove me to the ER, where I was tested and found to have a concussion, but luckily no lasting damage.

For a long time afterwards, and even sometimes to this day, I imagine all the things I'd like to do to him. The torture I would subject him to. Breaking all his bones, or making him bleed to death. People looked at me differently in the following weeks. I hated it. I really wanted to hurt him, kill him, but no retaliation of any form was ever carried out. About a week after that incident we were on kitchen duty together. Fucking great. With the school administration not having the foresight to change up the schedule, the day eventually came around when I had to be alone with him (and the cook) in a room for an hour. All I wanted was to skip the kitchen duty and let the asshole manage on his own, but then he would win, which was unacceptable. So with determination, when the time came we went to the kitchen together. No words were exchanged on the way there. The cook, bless her she's wonderful, looked positively alarmed at the prospect of having to be alone with the two of us. The tension was... well I don't think words exist that can describe it adequately.

Doing everything I could to hide the torrent of emotions within me, I was polite, although strictly professional, every time I had to coordiante something with him or tell him anything. The poor cook looking on nervously whenever we were in close proximity to one another. It went alright. We made the food, we set the tables, and we got everything ready for when the serving group arrived to relieve us.

That's when the extraordinary thing happened. He took me aside to tell me something. He looked miserable. "About what happened..." he said meekly. Was this remorse? I cut him off, "don't worry about it, I've already forgotten that it happened." I hadn't, not by any stretch of the imagination, I just wanted the conversation to end so I could go back to strangling him in my mind. But in that moment his face changed completely. It lit up with relief and gratitude. "Thank you," he said, and we went and sat down with the other classmates.

The change in his behaviour was almost instant, and it only got better as time went on. He became more respectful of everyone around him, started treating the girls like actual human beings, stopped intentionally hurting people in gym class, and through his participation in other classes and the conversations I've had with him since, I realised he was actually quite an intelligent guy. I wouldn't count him as a close friend, but we got on well enough for the remaining year and a half until we went our separate ways for high school. He went to culinary school, became a chef and got a wife and a kid, and knowing the person he was at the end of 10th grade, and just how much he'd grown in such a short amount of time, I'm sure he'll be a great dad and husband.

The simple act of forgiving him, even though I didn't mean it at first, changed him dramatically, and I would be lying if I said that didn't have a profound effect on my life.
Last edited by Ruben on 9 May 2019, 22:03, edited 1 time in total.
My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them.

User avatar
umiz
Kuski
Posts: 355
Joined: 22 Oct 2005, 09:32

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by umiz » 9 May 2019, 15:51

Kopaka elmas Dalai Lama. I agree in every word wise Kopaka says.
[i cruise, i lev, i live]

User avatar
Ramone
50mins club
Posts: 1951
Joined: 20 May 2002, 15:42

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by Ramone » 9 May 2019, 20:54

Ruben, extremelly well written. And yes, you are 100% correct in what you say. Surely a very wise man, well, wise allready as a boy.

I do believe in change.
I am also quite emotional.
Internal war between mind and heart.

Somehow Rubens story made them blend together. Pleasure to read, and I needed it.

Thank you for sharing. <3
Elasto Mania - ez better

User avatar
Ruben
Kuski
Posts: 815
Joined: 31 Dec 2012, 18:07
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by Ruben » 9 May 2019, 22:01

Thank you for your kind words, Ramone. I wrestled in my mind for quite a bit whether I should post it or not, and very nearly deleted the whole thing (after having spent some 2 hours writing it). Now I'm glad I went through with it.
My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them.

User avatar
Lousku
Kuski
Posts: 2907
Joined: 5 Feb 2010, 00:25
Team: BAP
Location: expensive land of dads

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by Lousku » 10 May 2019, 14:39

Kopa wanted this talk moved to another tropic so here.
abruzzi wrote:thx for info i don't belong here, so maybe i will ask Kopa for some phantom again so nobody feels uncomfy
Not that it's my call but I have no problem with you playing EOL. I just don't think it's safe to invite you around people you've threatened to kill. I was actually responding to this:
abruzzi wrote:the sadder thing would rather be lack of the general will to solve such problems what slightly shifts the FEM towards periodic holiday for certain Finmen rather than a true community meeting
This frames the problem as ours. You've changed and now we're the bad guys by rejecting all this love. But avoiding you is not a punishment, it's a matter of safety.
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?

User avatar
ArZeNiK
38mins club
Posts: 678
Joined: 30 Jul 2016, 09:18
Team: Ferrari

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by ArZeNiK » 10 May 2019, 15:50

Warning this is an personal onion
Hi im pretty much of an outsider to this whole berh situation by how i joined in late 2017. I think I can understand the weight of things berh has done to belma/eol in the past but no malicious activity has been seen from him in many years so that most likely means he maturized a bit and similarly during the times when i talked to him he seemed a person with decently normal brain. So imo useless alting if we know its berh anyways, so unban is teh best solution, considering that berh is a lot better person now.
Also i dont get the ones who say he should be rejected from going to fem, even though im not going to fem. Is he a serial killer or what? If you dont like him, just dont be around him, that's all, not that hard imo, although I've never been at fems before so dunno really, but seems pretty straightforward to me. As long as he does not harm the situation in a whole, just let him enjoy the stuff. If he starts being an ass osv then kick him out.
hi im arzenik :>
september 23th 2017 never forget
Image

User avatar
Ruben
Kuski
Posts: 815
Joined: 31 Dec 2012, 18:07
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by Ruben » 10 May 2019, 17:07

ArZeNiK wrote:
10 May 2019, 15:50
Warning this is an personal onion
Hi im pretty much of an outsider to this whole berh situation by how i joined in late 2017. I think I can understand the weight of things berh has done to belma/eol in the past but no malicious activity has been seen from him in many years so that most likely means he maturized a bit and similarly during the times when i talked to him he seemed a person with decently normal brain. So imo useless alting if we know its berh anyways, so unban is teh best solution, considering that berh is a lot better person now.
Also i dont get the ones who say he should be rejected from going to fem, even though im not going to fem. Is he a serial killer or what? If you dont like him, just dont be around him, that's all, not that hard imo, although I've never been at fems before so dunno really, but seems pretty straightforward to me. As long as he does not harm the situation in a whole, just let him enjoy the stuff. If he starts being an ass osv then kick him out.
I think Berh should be allowed to play EOL with his own nick, chat and start balles like the rest of us, for reasons that I believe are already obvious. However, I think him attending FEM would be a mistake, both for his own sake and for ours. Given the feelings of several members of our community who are likely to attend, him just being there would be incredibly disruptive even if everything he says is true and he never does anything malicious. I can easily imagine invisible walls being raised all around, between him and everybody else, and between those who accept him and those who don't. And to be honest I struggle to find any "side" of that argument to be in the wrong, given the history of Elma and Berh's part in it. Not to mention how bad it will feel for Berh himself when he realises that once again he has created an unsavoury situation, only this time by accident. I'm trying to look at this as pragmatically as possible, my personal opinion of him aside, and to me it just doesn't seem like a good idea.
My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them.

Spef
34mins club
Posts: 115
Joined: 25 Jun 2011, 23:33

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by Spef » 10 May 2019, 20:07

My opinions on this should not matter much compared to many others, as I didn't have to go through the experiences many of you did, but still I'll write this once from my perspective.

Berh has behaved normally for the past few years, and has been in several Polish meets now, from where I haven't heard a single bad word about him. This includes him being around people who are among the closest to me in Elma, people who I trust (jblaze, mielz). His apologetic posts are a little awkward, but I think he just finds it hard to express himself. Both because of language and because of the type of personality he has.

I think if he were to attend FEM (apparently not this year) he would spend most of it in a group of his friends (poles, few others maybe) and not bother others if they want that. But I understand just his presence is something that would bother some people, so maybe that's not good enough. As for the death threats, I know even less about those, so maybe they are serious enough to not invite him, just in case.

I guess we will just have to wait and hope he keeps his current direction and one day has proven to be a person that others are ready to forgive.
[10:47:49] (Hosp) tol thinks that all there is in life is a gf, status, money blabl
[10:48:19] (ANATOLIY) not all hosp =)
[10:48:29] (ANATOLIY) but elma must be at second screen

User avatar
milagros
Cheatless
Posts: 4496
Joined: 19 May 2002, 17:05

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by milagros » 10 May 2019, 23:42

fuck berh
[carebox]

User avatar
pawq
38mins club
Posts: 6394
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 19:56
Team: TR
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by pawq » 20 May 2019, 14:06

Amazing story Ruben, thanks for that. I think I should read it again now and then.

Can also undersign everything that Kopa wrote, but wanted to highlight this for permanence:
Kopaka wrote:
8 May 2019, 22:24
- Trying to include people and treat them maybe even better than deserved, even those who may have done you wrong, is a way to make the world a better place.

farnsworth
Kuski
Posts: 51
Joined: 9 Jan 2013, 19:39

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by farnsworth » 21 May 2019, 08:57

pawq wrote:
20 May 2019, 14:06
Amazing story Ruben, thanks for that. I think I should read it again now and then.

Can also undersign everything that Kopa wrote, but wanted to highlight this for permanence:
Kopaka wrote:
8 May 2019, 22:24
- Trying to include people and treat them maybe even better than deserved, even those who may have done you wrong, is a way to make the world a better place.
Even tho that is true, I will always be able to understand Milagros initial reaction.
milagros wrote:
10 May 2019, 23:42
fuck berh

User avatar
Chris
Kuski
Posts: 1098
Joined: 5 Dec 2008, 16:19
Team: Ferrari
Location: flat track

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by Chris » 21 May 2019, 10:12

I guess he was banned, but bans are easy to evade. Many people (including me) didnt realize that he was already playing elma for a long time before PEM. He used nick misz. It wasn't just apology that allowed him to come back, because playing as misz showed that he can behave. 5 years ago if he tried to come back like that I would say fuck him anyway, but a lot of time has passed since his hacking etc and now as I met him IRL I think he is very nice person and the change of behaviour is genuine. Definitely he isn't the same person that he was many years ago.
Lousku wrote:could you mayke shorter sig please :( mega annoying and also against rules :()

User avatar
kuchitsu
Kuski
Posts: 1358
Joined: 13 Aug 2010, 20:31

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by kuchitsu » 21 May 2019, 17:02

It's great to read accounts from people who actually met berh recently. There are a lot of things you can't pick up from online communication, so hearing about what he's like IRL really helps.

User avatar
jblaze
38mins club
Posts: 733
Joined: 23 Apr 2010, 20:36
Location: chair

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by jblaze » 21 May 2019, 19:27

ill speak a word as i consider myself a close friend of berh, especially the last year. we are not much of just elma-friends (yes, we met through the game but elma is definitely not on the top of the list of topics we bring up)

ill just share my little story of my friendship with berh and you take your own conclusions.

year 2010 - i joined the scene, started hearing a lot about the bad cheater berh, hearing "jblaze kid, go buy yourself a lolipop" myself. rather ignored this.
year 2012, march - we decided to do a meeting as we lived in the same city. yes, me being 16 years old kiddik was a little afraid of a well-over-few-years-older bad cheater guy from the internets. from the first seconds we met, he had a positive approach, open for a new adventure, kindly welcoming me in his apartment, already shooting some interesting insights on various topics.
years 2012-2013 - we met a dozen times. berh appeared as outstanding conversation partner with very smart insertions, extraordinary humour and intriguing personality
years 2018-2019 - we met in years before too, but lately we meet quite often. the insights and the inteligent and broad perspective that he has shared through all these years were truly an important factor in understanding and facing many aspects of existence to me. countless hours that we spent discussing and confronting our conceptions about - shortly speaking - life did help me in understaning some things better (not that i understand much anyways, no no). he may not believe it as he is humble person deep inside but he really helped me. he has no will to look cool, which is a very valuable thing to me personally. his unconventional approach is inspiring to me, even if its not understood by somebody. sure, i dont share the same idea on every topic with him but i respect his views and i know he wishes good for people.

we are all different and dont have to agree on every topic but we should learn to listen to each other with understanding. thanks berh, friend!
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
(Devann) u are the master of your own universe. remember that

terba
Kuski
Posts: 18
Joined: 29 Apr 2003, 14:11

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by terba » 23 May 2019, 16:56

If you didn't live thru the years the fucktard terrorized, you're not entitled to an opinion on this matter.


"- Don't want to rob someone of the wonder of that is elma" xD and what did he do then for years :D so mongo argument


Ruben's story: Nice story, thx for sharing, terrible stuff. I can't find a connection with you forgiving and his change, he had changed before that.


milagros wrote:
10 May 2019, 23:42
fuck berh
this.
holja

User avatar
pawq
38mins club
Posts: 6394
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 19:56
Team: TR
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by pawq » 23 May 2019, 16:59

terba wrote:
23 May 2019, 16:56
I can't find a connection with you forgiving and his change, he had changed before that.
I'm sure Ruben will be very pleased to read this revelation.

terba
Kuski
Posts: 18
Joined: 29 Apr 2003, 14:11

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by terba » 23 May 2019, 17:19

pawq wrote:
23 May 2019, 16:59
terba wrote:
23 May 2019, 16:56
I can't find a connection with you forgiving and his change, he had changed before that.
I'm sure Ruben will be very pleased to read this revelation.
"Revelation"? Just a personal linear thought process after reading the story.
holja

User avatar
nick-o-matic
Kuski
Posts: 851
Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 12:53
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by nick-o-matic » 23 May 2019, 20:18

terba wrote:
23 May 2019, 17:29
Thank you for your false news nom, stooq, pawq and others who spread this shit out of nowhere.

I did no threats at any point. Only expressed deep hate towards him.

[8:30 PM] terba: berh better not come, I will hate him forever
[8:30 PM] terba: a total dick
[8:30 PM] terba: or come and face hate
[8:33 PM] terba: he should be banned from eol, for life. biggest a-hole the scene has seen

And in february i even suggested: (thx dani for finding it)
"lets have berh in fem and show him our appreciation with hate and neglect etc like adults :D"

Witch hunt!
nick-o-matic wrote:
7 May 2019, 20:32
Yes Stooq, I think the situation is not just hypothetical. Anyway Berh is not something like banned for coming, this situation is more like about the unfortunate "I won't come if he comes" thing (+ terb0 probably kicking berh's ass). And now it looks like this might be combined with "I won't come if he doesn't come". I don't know what else to say than that this is a really sad situation. Whatever happens it is going to be bad :(
Terb0, I am terribly sorry for you for starting this mess and also for not reacting earlier to this. It was a big mistake to drop your nick there like that, it is easily understood with completely different tone than I intended. It was not supposed to be understood literally as a physical assault, it was supposed to be something like a sarcastic sidenote, emphasizing the difficulty of the situation where some people would not come and on top of that there would be conflicts between berh and some other people. In general, I was not thinking clearly in the situation, people were fighting with each others and you had just said those lines above in the discord and I was kinda desperate, so this mistake happened. I should have wrote there something like "this situation is more like about the unfortunate "I won't come if he comes" thing (+ conflicts with some others and berh on top of that)"
Last edited by nick-o-matic on 23 May 2019, 23:06, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
nick-o-matic
Kuski
Posts: 851
Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 12:53
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by nick-o-matic » 23 May 2019, 20:56

pawq wrote:
23 May 2019, 20:05
terba wrote:
23 May 2019, 17:29
Witch hunt!
Hands up who knows which political figure is well-known for using this phrase!
I don't think terb0 is making himself a favor in this argument by using a Trump reference, but in general terb0 is not the bad guy here simply because he does not forget and forgive berh (there are no bad guys left at this point of time, just a very complex and sensitive situation). Forgiving like Ruben and others is nice and beautiful, and I respect that very much. At the same time, I also respect terb0's decision. He has done nothing but good things and contributions for the community, and still hating someone who everyone hated back in the day is his only "sin" if we want to call it like that. A situation where people who were friends with each other and has only done positive things to the community start to fight each other over a thing like that is the last thing I would like to see.

User avatar
Grace
38mins club
Posts: 4753
Joined: 19 Nov 2005, 10:45
Location: Deep in your Imagination, Twirling your Dreams and Weaving your thoughts.

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by Grace » 24 May 2019, 05:33

Seeing as I can now finally read terb0's actual words, I'd like to note that everything I said still applies x)
Image Cyberscore! Image
___________________________________________________
Image
Targets: 6 Legendary, 19 WC, 24 Pro, 5 Good | 37 Australian Records | AvgTT: 40:09:92

User avatar
milagros
Cheatless
Posts: 4496
Joined: 19 May 2002, 17:05

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by milagros » 24 May 2019, 16:01

a good general rule for life is to avoid shitty people
it has nothing to do with forgiveness
you wouldn't date a shitty ex-gf again, even if she pretended she is ok now
[carebox]

farnsworth
Kuski
Posts: 51
Joined: 9 Jan 2013, 19:39

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by farnsworth » 24 May 2019, 21:38

milagros wrote:
24 May 2019, 16:01
a good general rule for life is to avoid shitty people
It has happened that a ugly duckling becomes somewhat normal:) but yes!

User avatar
milagros
Cheatless
Posts: 4496
Joined: 19 May 2002, 17:05

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by milagros » 24 May 2019, 23:19

farnsworth wrote:
24 May 2019, 21:38
It has happened that a ugly duckling becomes somewhat normal:) but yes!
life is too short to waste on the chance that ugly duckling becomes beautiful
it is statistically better to bet on beautiful duckling
[carebox]

farnsworth
Kuski
Posts: 51
Joined: 9 Jan 2013, 19:39

Re: Why is berh not banned?

Post by farnsworth » 25 May 2019, 09:12

milagros wrote:
24 May 2019, 23:19
farnsworth wrote:
24 May 2019, 21:38
It has happened that a ugly duckling becomes somewhat normal:) but yes!
life is too short to waste on the chance that ugly duckling becomes beautiful
it is statistically better to bet on beautiful duckling
Can't argue mathematics^^! No one can give you those wasted hours back, but ty for elma <3

Post Reply