What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

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AndrY
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What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by AndrY » 23 Oct 2019, 00:18

(not sure there wasnt such topic or such talks)

I was comparing some battes from 2017-2019 and 2011-2014 years.
If today 15 mans in balle is WOW, in ~2011 it was very usual situation. There were many balles with 20-30 players, and that seems was norm. Also there were 1.5 or 2 times more balles a day.

What i am getting at?

No new players appear last 3 years. Or sometimes appear and then throw.
Really, i think, there must be some point of no return, when there will be SO few balles and SO few mans online, that all eol system will collapse (mb except fem days or some cups, if they will be).
Usually this moment is coming suddenly, after (for example) another brake in eol server, or moposite. And there is a illusion that all is going oke but if there are few ppl, the system is not stabil. The meaning of doing smth in elma (make quality levels, programming, just hoyling...) is getting lost bcz there is almost nobody to estimate. Hmm... cant to find right words but i think you know some abandoned games and sites to imagine how its going.

Each year old layers throw elma (because of age usually imo). Where are toringe, hehe, grob, cap (and all other st-petersburg's mans), madness, kowal, all the HHIT, ramone, sla, xira..... ?

Need to force promote elma i think to get new players.

The first problem for new ppl is to download and install the EOL. I did it once with dll-s and such shit, and now just copy my folder. But what new ppl have to do?? Everybody have windows 8 and 10 now. Mb im not right and now its ez to install eol, then reply.

Oke, elma is not popular game and hard to understand. But imo it need to try to involve your friends, relatives in it (i was trying, but no result).

Or maybe need some real advertising. Maybe organize some money price cup for new players with advertising in some sites? Oke, "new player" is a little indefinably, but its just an idea.

what do you think about it? mb its just my bad night mood, and all not so bad?
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by abruzzi » 23 Oct 2019, 12:48

first we have to wait until jonsykkel prepares OKEOL which will be the new version, also until kopaka totally finishes the new site, and we can go with total advertising, probably in 2021 because we have to do the World Cup first, most probably in fall of 2020
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by kuchitsu » 23 Oct 2019, 12:52

I think Elma needs an HD remake with fancy graphics, achievements, dubstep music and shit. It should look very appealing at first glance so that people would give it a chance and play it long enough to begin appreciating its complexity. In its current state most people will see Elma as some amateur Flash game. It doesn't have a cool nostalgic aesthetic like NES games for example, it just looks poor and hopelessly outdated. I don't see how you could advertise it in this form.

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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by ArZeNiK » 23 Oct 2019, 14:09

as an online player for only 25 months i can still say eol is more inactive than it was when i entered
imo either we pull out something major out of our ass for world cup 8 (like the pcgamer article recently) or we're gonna get fucked in about 5-10 years
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by AndrY » 23 Oct 2019, 20:18

What about to create a browser elma version, where no internals (probably), but where are always battles (autogenerated levels)?
When Stini will make final ai version, would be poss to add bots there.
All the structure of elma is saved ofc (maybe except lgr).

would be such a middle stage between noobiness and playing real eol
just idea:/
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by Kopaka » 25 Oct 2019, 13:09

AndrY wrote:
23 Oct 2019, 00:18
The first problem for new ppl is to download and install the EOL. I did it once with dll-s and such shit, and now just copy my folder. But what new ppl have to do?? Everybody have windows 8 and 10 now. Mb im not right and now its ez to install eol, then reply.
You're not right and now it's ez to install.
abruzzi wrote:
23 Oct 2019, 12:48
first we have to wait until jonsykkel prepares OKEOL which will be the new version, also until kopaka totally finishes the new site, and we can go with total advertising, probably in 2021 because we have to do the World Cup first, most probably in fall of 2020
We can never know for sure those things will actually happen. We may be waiting for nothing, or we may wait too long and there's no community left to advertise.

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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by umiz » 26 Oct 2019, 14:56

I must say I'm worried!
Today, saturday around 16.00. Perfect elma time for most people before party or whatever. No balle que, few players.

One thing is for sure and that is i will continue for eternal time making balles. Some good, some bad (or even infinite minus bad like Arzenik told me). The importance of starting balles can not be underestimated!

So please, pick your shit together and start your levels. It doesnt have to be great all the time. Start and play while putting a new balle in que!

Also we must have some vocalic guy talking about elma and playing on twitch or sach. Ramone where are you? Your elma talking is like poetry.
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by ArZeNiK » 26 Oct 2019, 15:32

umiz wrote:
26 Oct 2019, 14:56
or even infinite minus bad like Arzenik told me
i am very sorry for being rude i had a bad day the level didn't actually suck that bad and keep on creating pls and fuck negative critics
edit: i looked in chatlogs and the level was actually awesome i'm just unable to play anything that's more than 10 seconds long
umiz wrote:
26 Oct 2019, 14:56
So please, pick your shit together and start your levels. It doesnt have to be great all the time. Start and play while putting a new balle in que!

Also we must have some vocalic guy talking about elma and playing on twitch or sach.
ok i will start balles
i can also stream on twitch but i'm not that well followed person so teh only ppl who would watch it would be some close friends and existing elmers
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by Ramone » 26 Oct 2019, 16:50

Ive been concidering setting up pc since came home from fem. Been home sick from work this week but still didnt.

I miss Elma abit sometimes.

I miss mostly Zero though. But it reallyhas nothing to do with Elma.

I have, however, come up with tons of ideas for levels and contests (fem20) but since never connecting I forget most stuff anyway.

:)
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by jonsykkel » 26 Oct 2019, 17:25

not fun 2 pley vhen no batles
not fun 2 start batles vhen only nabs pleying
not fun 2 pley batles vhen only nabs pleying

ppl ned to make more batles
pros ned to pley more elma

:idea: :arrow: :wink2:
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by Zweq » 26 Oct 2019, 19:55

some pro needs to make .dll so can make lev
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by ArZeNiK » 26 Oct 2019, 20:46

jonsykkel wrote:
26 Oct 2019, 17:25
not fun 2 pley vhen no batles
not fun 2 start batles vhen only nabs pleying
not fun 2 pley batles vhen only nabs pleying
noobs improve by playing balles
sorry for sucking
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by umiz » 27 Oct 2019, 08:42

i am very sorry for being rude i had a bad day the level didn't actually suck that bad and keep on creating pls and fuck negative critics
edit: i looked in chatlogs and the level was actually awesome i'm just unable to play anything that's more than 10 seconds long
No problems Arzenik! I love you :) I know some of my levels are impsy and some are great, thats how i work :) I was just amazed by infinite bad rating, it's creative and I love creatvitiy :)
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by umiz » 27 Oct 2019, 08:43

Ramone wrote:
26 Oct 2019, 16:50
Ive been concidering setting up pc since came home from fem. Been home sick from work this week but still didnt.

I miss Elma abit sometimes.

I miss mostly Zero though. But it reallyhas nothing to do with Elma.

I have, however, come up with tons of ideas for levels and contests (fem20) but since never connecting I forget most stuff anyway.

:)
Fixxa pc now :)
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by Ramone » 27 Oct 2019, 12:37

There is no need to try and make every level you make for battle good. Even if you do you will fail, and often some raw shit turns out amazing. Regardless ppl have different taste, you will never please everyone.

Having proper packnames with actual titles instead of "Unnamed" helps. Random filenames makes lev feel less special for me at least.
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by Ramone » 27 Oct 2019, 12:39

Ok Umiz, I'll setup for you.

Tonight 20:00 swe time (in 7h 20 min) Ill be up and ready with a 60 min Ramone battle.

For you!

(Given my PC will start again after FEM)
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by Chris » 28 Oct 2019, 10:01

Since it's difficult to bring new players, we need to do more to bring old players back. But the thing is as we age we have less time for elma. Maybe more cups like is good idea. When there is cup you can be sure that there will be people. Also okeol might be good, because we can potentially have new battle modes to test etc.
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by Bjenn » 29 Oct 2019, 16:31

I could stream and maybe use mic but only if I have some other guys to talk to, like using Discord elma voice channel :)
I like when I can concentrate on playing and let other guys do the most of the talking xD


Awesome speech umiz I love your levels and that you so often make new ones! A M A Z I N G STUFF!

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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by AndrY » 29 Oct 2019, 21:41

duno is it fun or sad
hope it wasnt seriously:/
[20:36:02] (MrHrz): level at rawb02 is too hard to get at least 59 99 time.
[20:37:09] (MrHrz): sorry, but im tired of trying. it was nice to play with you.
[20:38:31] (MrHrz): i,ll stop playing elasto mania. i delete to elasto mania game.
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by Chris » 30 Oct 2019, 09:10

AndrY wrote:
29 Oct 2019, 21:41
duno is it fun or sad
hope it wasnt seriously:/
[20:36:02] (MrHrz): level at rawb02 is too hard to get at least 59 99 time.
[20:37:09] (MrHrz): sorry, but im tired of trying. it was nice to play with you.
[20:38:31] (MrHrz): i,ll stop playing elasto mania. i delete to elasto mania game.
It reminds me of that. viewtopic.php?p=238245#p238245

Elma is game that easy to learn and hard to master. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that everyone will be instantly be good at this game. If elma was easy, we wouldn't even be here. I can understand that some people might be frustrated if all levels are very difficult, but that wasn't even case in that battle or that eveing as I looked at battles that were started that evening. Perhaps some pro styles were difficult, but that's the point of this game.

I hope he will be back, but that was strange reason to quit. I know games that are much less forgiving to new players, yet they are the most popular games in the world. Like these battle royals or moba or counter strike like games. In elma unlike in these games you can at least play at your own pace and you are not getting killed or you don't hear insults if you aren't good.

Also on the great news is that ramone is back and he is probably the best designer in elma. :>
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by kuchitsu » 30 Oct 2019, 09:35

Well, in popular games you can find many players of your level no matter how unforgiving these games are. In Elma you can't choose a room for noobs that you actually have a chance of beating. You're always near the bottom of the table and that's hard to handle psychologically. You could say "no need to be number one, just try to get as good time as possible" or whatever, but people want to win from time to time, and that's something noobs can't have in Elma.

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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by pawq » 30 Oct 2019, 10:40

kuchitsu wrote:
30 Oct 2019, 09:35
people want to win from time to time, and that's something noobs can't have in Elma.
I've been playing for 11 years and still rarely happens to me :lol:

You're right tho :(

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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by roope » 30 Oct 2019, 11:18

We've had this discussions and even plans from time to time, but it always falls over because we're waiting for thing X, or the discussion just dies down. Waiting for permission from Balazs to spread Elma. Waiting for Elma 2. Waiting for okeol. Fearing that the server can't handle a big influx of new players. I think someone needs to go rogue and just do something like advertising in a big way. But that's the thing, someone is naturally someone else than me.
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by Orcc » 30 Oct 2019, 13:07

One relatively good way of advertising would be to showcase Elma in some speedrunning marathon, but the problem has been that none of the internal pros have been interested. It wouldn't need to be u40min single segment run, just nice cruise with safe styles according to the kuski's skill level, and someone to comment the run. In one marathon a while back they did long casual Trackmania run and then showed some wr replays after the run, was very nice to watch.
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by ArZeNiK » 30 Oct 2019, 14:21

Orcc wrote:
30 Oct 2019, 13:07
One relatively good way of advertising would be to showcase Elma in some speedrunning marathon, but the problem has been that none of the internal pros have been interested. It wouldn't need to be u40min single segment run, just nice cruise with safe styles according to the kuski's skill level, and someone to comment the run. In one marathon a while back they did long casual Trackmania run and then showed some wr replays after the run, was very nice to watch.
pretty sure it's not that easy getting a game to any marathon
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by Orcc » 30 Oct 2019, 14:26

That could be another issue, but on the other hand Elma is quite well known and the marathons often tend to have the same games being played.
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by Chris » 6 Nov 2019, 10:41

kuchitsu wrote:
30 Oct 2019, 09:35
Well, in popular games you can find many players of your level no matter how unforgiving these games are. In Elma you can't choose a room for noobs that you actually have a chance of beating. You're always near the bottom of the table and that's hard to handle psychologically. You could say "no need to be number one, just try to get as good time as possible" or whatever, but people want to win from time to time, and that's something noobs can't have in Elma.
Elma problem is that unlike Fortnite that is also very frustrating game, there isn't constant stream of new players coming and trying game. In Fortnite even if fraction of players who try that game, stick to it for long, it's still very big number. Keep in mind that most of people also aren't going to win a single battle royale. In Elma there there aren't many people who try this game, so accordingly the number of players who stick to the game is also small. Modern client like Okeol and presence on Steam etc could help grow the scene without changing much of core gameplay, because it isn't the problem IMO.
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by Hosp » 22 Nov 2019, 07:55

The 'ok boomer' generation is the problem, they want ez games that have no challenges. Success has to be a guarantee, that's why very few young players come except cool kids like TGR and Xira.
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by ArZeNiK » 22 Nov 2019, 14:11

Hosp wrote:
22 Nov 2019, 07:55
The 'ok boomer' generation is the problem, they want ez games that have no challenges. Success has to be a guarantee, that's why very few young players come except cool kids like TGR and Xira.
competitivity in such a game is hard to understand/get a reason for to enter but when you're already there it can be pretty addictive. but then again such major league competition hasn't really been meta in video gaming culture only since like 2010 when SDA got popular and people started turning everything into speedgames
i can quite understand why older people don't tend to like elmaic games
made a speedrunner friend around my age try out eol recently. he seems to quite like it but idk if i have the soul to make him go competitive. he tends to get easily and heavily addicted to video games
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by ile » 22 Nov 2019, 16:48

Hosp wrote:
22 Nov 2019, 07:55
The 'ok boomer' generation is the problem, they want ez games that have no challenges. Success has to be a guarantee, that's why very few young players come except cool kids like TGR and Xira.
or because nobody has even heard of this game

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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by Hosp » 23 Nov 2019, 15:00

Almost everyone have heard of elma, most people I show it to recognize it but have only played very little or seen friend play!
Arzenik, I meant younger people, the ones who say 'ok boomer'
But ofc is just generalization but to my understanding most young people need flashy stuff happening all the time, and payable upgrades and skins and instant max level purchaseable to hev fun. Let's start selling WC target time state.dat to young people for 20E a piece imo :) Ez
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by milagros » 26 Nov 2019, 02:55

eol willbe 10 years old soon (i think it was release in 2010, not sure which month)
party time
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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by Kopaka » 26 Nov 2019, 09:20

august 2010, soon eol will be half the age of elma

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Re: What will happen with EOL (elma) after ... years

Post by ROKKEBOL » 26 Nov 2019, 12:26

https://elmaonline.net/battles/4

Battle in sp01 by jonsykkel [BAP]
Wheelie

July 26 2010 08:24

Normal, 8 mins. See Others, One Wheel

1st battle in database with players
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