BELMA - Battle Elasto Mania

Feature requests and ideas for the new unofficial versions of Elma and general talk related to those.

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BELMA - Battle Elasto Mania

Post by milagros » 24 Nov 2006, 20:33

I was playing recently with patching and now when I'm in patching mood I was thinking about a few possible patches. The only problem is that I need some app running on the server for that. Anybody has any where I can upload and run any application I want? (I don't really want to hack anything, don't worry)

possible patches were :
1.fix eol so it will connect to the server and you can choose which player you want to play with and everything will work automatically. Some chatting there would be ez (or not hard) too, dunno if necessary.

2.some battle mode where evrybody will see everybody else playing (so there will be 20 kuski shown..) and the first one who finishes wins(or any other rule). It would automatically restart if you die, like in flag tag. Only 1st player will be saved in teh rec. It would work a bit different way so 1st player will not lag only the others depended on the quality of the connection (normal UDP). Might be fun in pipe levs.

BUT I NEEEEED SERVER!!!!
if there won't be any, I won't start doing anything. Otherwise maybe during christmas.
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Post by Cerasti » 26 Nov 2006, 15:49

What do you mean by server? I can lend out my webspace if that's what you mean.

BTW: Make that patch and I'll start to worship you :)
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Post by milagros » 26 Nov 2006, 18:02

i wanted some windows server where i can run executables (exe or dll)
Zerox[COS] has already offered help and can do what i need, if there will be any problems i can you also your server
i'll try to do it soon, maybe first version next weekend (prolly not public yet anyway)
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Post by milagros » 3 Dec 2006, 17:33

hmm, managed to show more then 2 players so that battle mode is ez to do
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Post by teajay » 3 Dec 2006, 21:27

watefak ;o

Milagros, if you publish such a program that is:
  • easy to use
  • with melee mode
  • on a server
  • rather unbuggy
then I will transfer 20e to your bankaccount. :wink:

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Post by Abula » 4 Dec 2006, 02:19

And because milagros is rich as hell he wants to redirect them directly to Moposite.
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Post by teajay » 4 Dec 2006, 11:29

Ofcourse. :wink:

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Post by milagros » 4 Dec 2006, 16:02

Abula wrote:And because milagros is rich as hell he wants to redirect them directly to Moposite.
ye ez redirect if i ever satisfy tijs's conditions:)
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some random requests

Post by onlainari » 5 Dec 2006, 15:07

ides for later versions and such...

that bullemode where level is started, then you can play it with flagtag or sach style, until you get your first touch on the flower. That is your time on it.

- With that style, a mode where the game ends when first one touches the flower, the winner.

- Same except everyone finishes, and other positions are also determined.

So if teh is teh, then mabe extend for a little more advanced mode, where there are more than 1 level. This could ease the pain of checking back irc between contests, because with 1 level, a contest would last only as long as one or everyone has finished the level, so less than most likely the 5 minutes.

Like you could have a grand prix bulle with mates. You have some 10 levels. And after each, there is a menu screen, with the results of the latest. Then comes a total points table, where players get points of their position, or optionally by total time.

Another mode similar as above, except the player who became last on the latest level is dropped from competition, and in the last level there is only 2 left (+ other curious observers :)


How is the level database handled ? If there was a big list of levels inside teh, and you could tag and mark which levels you want to take in teh competition or something... These are features like on the online slicks n slide game called turbo sliders.

- being able to recognize who controls which bike :I
Last edited by onlainari on 5 Dec 2006, 17:34, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by milagros » 5 Dec 2006, 15:15

so next week i'll be at home and i'll try to do that

first step will be:
make the program work on windows server and for everybody it will show all players playing same level. Youll simply run some battle.exe and it will automatically connect you to battle server and after you choose the level it will show all players playing that level (all other players will look the same - impsy to recognize markku from zworqy).

next steps might be implementation of different battle rules, automatic donwloading/uploading, making soem tables with results inside elma, automatic quit after timeout and in best times there will be results and so on..

next week there won't be probably more than working first step i guess.
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Post by A.K.B. » 6 Dec 2006, 07:03

Sounds awesome, but is this all in the Elma.exe interface?
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Post by milagros » 6 Dec 2006, 15:36

everything in exe and new dll file
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Post by A.K.B. » 6 Dec 2006, 22:14

sweet!
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Post by Kestas » 7 Dec 2006, 00:25

milagros you're my hero! all these rumors about the elma battling online with more then 2 players that have been hesitated to be impossible for years and you've made it look possible. i mean it's like a dream come true :o i've been thinking of these possibility's since the very start.. tho i gave up of this dream ages ago thinking that no one would ever do it for such a game. man it's gonna be something like defrag in queke's 3 mod! i have so many offers for that pach on records system and so on, but i'll suggest these later on when the basic progress will move on.

btw it would be awesome if a script would save all of it's battled levels in one server and players would have the ability of callvoting where anyone could vote for any external level they want and a server would load it if it has it in it's hystory and if a majority would agree on that of course by passing /vote 1 or 0 or just something similar like this. that way all external battle levs would have their own record tables. for example if i want to play alu696 (which has been battles) i call a vote and everyone agrees on that, then server reloads us all on alu696.lev. if some ppl dont have this lev, autodownloading script should dl it to them from it's permanent server's hystory or they could manually download it by themselves from something like this http://defrag.own-age.com/maps/ . this way battle server would be active 24/7 and ppl wouldnt have to wait for 2 hours for someone to do them a level. servel could have a sript for registering all the nicks, their times on a certain level and their placements amont the others. so if i'd made my first finish it would print on the very top saying to all the battles something like this: kestas reached the flower in 15:746 and is now 5th out of 34 or kestas broke the server record with 15.112!! (-128). i hope you got the idea mila after making the hardest basics in online battling it should be a peace of cake for you, would be only a matter of time. if you'll do so, elma would be a huge revolution! i'll send you a check with 15e when i'll see this update, if not i'll eat my hat

i'll talk about the details later when others will pass their oppinions and mila will think about it

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Post by 8-ball » 7 Dec 2006, 01:05

what he said ^
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Post by berhabdul » 7 Dec 2006, 13:55

Yes, that's a truly really being-looked-forward idea. Probably it is going to be another major elma-playing breakthrough :) But it could've been made much earlier, if only mila weren't that lazy and bossy :P
Of course I do do approve of your former achievements, mila :) Just if you have much time, and you are capable of doing such great things, why not work harder and more often, devote more effort.

Personally, I guess it wouldn't be uneasy for mila even to compile Elma 2, even with all those 'gadgets', mentioned on Paprika :) Maybe if all of us donated firmly, you could make an extra-super-elma-2-with-everything instead of improving the current version. That's only my dream, sorry for a bit off-topic.

Anyway for now, come on and try to help, find for mila a good server so that he could complete his work and bring us more fun. The sooner the better.

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Post by milagros » 7 Dec 2006, 20:34

just solved last known problem in asm - how to change all players t-shirt according to nick
its saved as bmp im the memory (q1.pcx converted to bmp) so every player will have to upload his bmp otherwise he'll be shown as default kuski
now the last part - network part has to be done (in c+ so not that big problem)..
first beta-version might be ready tomorrow or more probably on saturday
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Post by The_BoneLESS » 7 Dec 2006, 21:27

You mean i could make my own t-shirt (.pcx file) and it would appear in the game!

That would just be awesome
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Post by Kestas » 7 Dec 2006, 21:35

oh man, this is gonna be sick!!

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Post by A.K.B. » 7 Dec 2006, 22:00

what are you gonna call it? :)
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Post by Kestas » 11 Dec 2006, 20:42

milagros wrote: first beta-version might be ready tomorrow or more probably on saturday
any news?

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Post by milagros » 11 Dec 2006, 23:19

we've just tested with kd, it's lagging fucking much:) now its sending some 169 bytes for every kuski so its kinda not very effective
i'll try to fix some bugs, compress it as in rec file (27 bytes there per frame) or even more to 20 bytes or so and do some other changes like showing kuski form previous frame and interpolate it according to time from last two frames so it will look smooth (rec in elma is interpolated same way)
so you might be leading a bit on the screen and won't really be leading, but popping is much more annoying i guess
there is no public version yet and won't be very soon i guess:/ too much work to do fi you want good result at the end
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Post by A.K.B. » 12 Dec 2006, 02:55

This is gonna be insane- do you think you could take some screenshots of it, or record some FRAPS vid? :wink:
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Post by zworqy » 12 Dec 2006, 03:00

Server needed
New topic needed :P

PS: This seems freaking awesome!
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Post by teajay » 12 Dec 2006, 17:32

Fuck, it looks so geeky all those kuskis together, like some sort of elma meeting. :lol2:

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Post by Kestas » 12 Dec 2006, 20:11


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Post by milagros » 13 Dec 2006, 00:30

nah, nto that easy
but you can make 2nd bike some ghost bike (in lgr) so it will look much better
we've played some, it's still lagging but i believe afer i change tcp socket to udp, it will be ok.. maybe tomorrow
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Post by A.K.B. » 13 Dec 2006, 01:33

You don't know how great this sounds, I wonder If it can be considered for GAA06? I would ez nominate for 07 if not.
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Post by Kestas » 13 Dec 2006, 09:08

milagros wrote: but you can make 2nd bike some ghost bike (in lgr) so it will look much better
hmm think that's a good option. but i'd like to see others riding that lev as well when their not close enough to me. i think it shouls be possible with the same thing as graphs low or high is workig as. maybe it's possible to see it programatically when the 2nd bike is coming close to like 100pixels next to your wheel or any parts of the bike with a kuski (100 pixel radius), then it's lgr could switch to something like graphs low, just for the kuski itself? maybe it could extrakt ghost kuski from a ghost.lgr while in-game ?

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Post by milagros » 13 Dec 2006, 10:22

Kestas wrote:
milagros wrote: but you can make 2nd bike some ghost bike (in lgr) so it will look much better
hmm think that's a good option. but i'd like to see others riding that lev as well when their not close enough to me. i think it shouls be possible with the same thing as graphs low or high is workig as. maybe it's possible to see it programatically when the 2nd bike is coming close to like 100pixels next to your wheel or any parts of the bike with a kuski (100 pixel radius), then it's lgr could switch to something like graphs low, just for the kuski itself? maybe it could extrakt ghost kuski from a ghost.lgr while in-game ?
your kuski is always on the top so if other kuski's have different colored wheels (some shadow grey or smth) then it should not disturb you
of course it would be easy to program that radius if i had elma sources.. now don't expect miracles (=milagros in spanish)
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Post by A.K.B. » 13 Dec 2006, 11:51

Hope it doesn't lag too much. :?
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Post by The_BoneLESS » 13 Dec 2006, 22:58

A.K.B. wrote:Hope it doesn't lag too much. :?
Well, if mila switches TCP to UDP, the lag will definitly drop (as he said).
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Post by A.K.B. » 13 Dec 2006, 23:08

I'm no programmer, but what does those mean anyway?

And do you think it'll run smooth on my pc (only about 400Mhtz)
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Post by The_BoneLESS » 13 Dec 2006, 23:46

Simply, TCP and UDP are protocols that allows one computer to connect to another and send data. ( i won't go in deeper details cause it'll get messy )

The TCP protocol is much more reliable than UPD because it verifies if every data it sends was received by the other computer. One effect is that it's way slower than the UPD, which only sends data, without checking if it was received.

Most games use UDP for this reason.

and i'm not sure if it'll run smooth on your PC but i guess it will.
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Post by milagros » 14 Dec 2006, 00:53

so boneless described protocols:) i've packed the data to 17 bytes per player, so i believe that's enough, if i interpolate it same way as in rec files (that's 30fps), then it will definitely work without lagging in udp (i worked on something else today and didn't really tried it yet)
anyway if it lag a bit with bad connection, only other players lag, your player for just fine and you're able to hide others if it disturbs you
i'm going to be away for next ~14 days (from friday), i'll have my notebook, so i'll be able to program but no inet probably or atleast no inet for testing
so now you should write list of things you want there to be

here's the list of things i'm able to do (i think if there won't be any problems)
1. get directly times/apples from any lev you're playing on the server
2. connect with server to irc and act like some irc bot
3. start battle on that irc (prolly with similar command as in ballebot) - what kind of battles do you need - normal battle (you dont see anyone), battle where you see everyone if you want, battle where you see everyone and first one who catches flower wins, battle with most apples taken wins, ...
4. any kind of statistics - battles played (no/hours)/finished/percentages/..
5. automatically save battle rec and best time automatically uploaded to ftp and downloaded by others (if i get some ftp account, zerox said possible)

there are things i might be able to do but i havent tried
1. show topX of some battle played inside elma
2. observer mode where you just connect and switch between players without playing

..any other suggestions?
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Post by John » 14 Dec 2006, 05:50

if u press tab in cs u see scoreboard. maby u could be able to see all the active players and their times/apples/...... if u press tab in this patch...

also u could add possibility to start hillclimb-battles. u could make all players play at same time and the highest run gets some kind of mark or a screenshot of the bike + kuski when being at the peak of the run so that people know what to beat. ;o
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Post by teajay » 14 Dec 2006, 06:46

Flag tag, could that be possible? :P

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Post by dz » 14 Dec 2006, 11:01

Quite as John said, I wish there would be a scoreboard on screen automatically after each round.

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Post by Kestas » 14 Dec 2006, 12:33

ye and saving in "name" hystory how much wins do they have. if server could had top100 as for example it could be a blast. everyone could check on that with certain commands like !top3 , !rank14 (kuskis placement in 14th place with his wins count), !mystats and something like this directly in the game

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Post by 8-ball » 14 Dec 2006, 14:17

dame we don't need elma 2 anymore.. this is 95% dreams coming true <3333
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Post by milagros » 14 Dec 2006, 15:48

1.hill climbing possible - ez to sho highest/furtherest mark on the screen
2. flag tag - at first i didn't plan to do it because you need synchronization for that but i think i can make calculations on the server and send the flag to the players.. sometimes you might think you've touched someone but it didn't give you flag and so on, but we can live with that:) they might be problems with giving the flag to the first player or what.. if there are more
3. score board - i can probably add new option behind best times with best times on the server (also including apples..), i doubt that i can show scoreboard during the game
4. server can save anything to the database - battle victories, hours played (also played some other than battle levels), ..

After I finish it (i hope that will be done till i start school in january again), i'll spread sources for the server, there isn't any secret info there and someone might easily rewrite (copy+paste) it to linux if linux server better or also add some more options there
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Post by Boomer » 14 Dec 2006, 22:59

milagros for president! \o/
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Post by A.K.B. » 15 Dec 2006, 06:17

This is max. Can't wait for release (I say again) :)
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Post by Zweq » 16 Dec 2006, 00:45

As for EOL, we have played a lot with it on local network and have encountered couple of bugs.

First of all, sometimes, if the joiner presses enter before host, both are stuck on loading screen for around 30 seconds. It's quite rare bug though and I don't know what exactly is causing it because normally you get into game with 2-3 sec delay if the host is 2nd presser. We had this bug maybe ~10 times.

Then, as we know there are couple of .exes in the elma folder. It seems that elmaconf affects elma12.exe but not eol.exe, that leads to a problem with defining alovolts and keys. In fact I don't exactly remember what was the problem with this, because it was in the spring we had problems with defining the keys. I remember I had to change elmaconf.exe from another elma folder to get it working, was quite a struggle I remember. Either way it's quite damn confusing, not 100% sure if I can say it is bugged.

This next one is more of a suggestion for MP in general. Something like, Toggle show/hide the other player, it would help tons on levels like HeHe, tricks abound etc.

Otherwise it seems EOL is functioning AWESOME, haven't encountered anything bad with the gameplay itself, the menus, options etc just seem bit clumsy/not userfriendly. I haven't tested through internet yet. I can imagine a chat function would rock there if the two arent on comms.
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Post by 8-ball » 16 Dec 2006, 14:34

would be awesome if you could press T, type a message and it would appear on top of everyone's screen in small font for 5 seconds or so.. um kinda like turbosliders.
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Post by A.K.B. » 16 Dec 2006, 14:37

and quake :)
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Post by milagros » 17 Dec 2006, 23:52

Zweq wrote:First of all, sometimes, if the joiner presses enter before host, both are stuck on loading screen for around 30 seconds.
ye, I know about this 'bug' and knew it would be like that. EOL was done purely in asm (not this server prog, thatt one is 90% c++) and I wasn't really able to do other thread to handle things like noone connected and delete the thread.
Zweq wrote:Then, as we know there are couple of .exes in the elma folder. It seems that elmaconf affects elma12.exe but not eol.exe, that leads to a problem with defining alovolts and keys.
there was some other exe file that handled this (and skipped crc check for elma1.2), i dont remember the name (eolconf.exe?)
Zweq wrote:This next one is more of a suggestion for MP in general. Something like, Toggle show/hide the other player, it would help tons on levels like HeHe, tricks abound etc.
This is already done for this server prog, it would not be that big problem for eol i guess.
Zweq wrote:Otherwise it seems EOL is functioning AWESOME
I didn't really think anyone is playing, i'm really surprised 8O

.. there was no progress on that server prog in last three days, been in ireland at some drinking party
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Post by milagros » 17 Dec 2006, 23:54

8-ball wrote:would be awesome if you could press T, type a message and it would appear on top of everyone's screen in small font for 5 seconds or so.. um kinda like turbosliders.
this seems kinda hard (haven't tried), i do only ez patching;/
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Location: Lithuania

Post by Kestas » 18 Dec 2006, 11:36

yes but that's the most important feature mila. without in-game chatting this patch will be only 50% done. i'm sure someone could help you out with that if you fill some Qs in a couple of c++ forums on the net if you have no idea where from to start.

maybe this can help you?:
http://www.mxb.dk/upload/quake3-1.32b-source.zip
(...\quake3-1.32b-source\quake3-1.32b\code\game\ai_chat.c)

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