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PostPosted: 15 May 2007, 09:52 
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We've now possibly found a proper server to use for Belma that will be able to save statistics, along with hopefully being more stable than previous ones. Mila and I will need to test it a bit more for a day or two before anything is certain, but so far the performance has been pretty good. It's a semi-dedicated server located in Germany on a 10mbit unmetered connection, so it should work pretty good for our needs.

Anyway, as long as everything goes as planned, we'll have registrations working in a day or two so no more n00b nicks allowed and it will be easier to ban idiots. And to the point of this post: now that we have a working database, there will soon be some basic stats available, but I need some more ideas about what kind of stats to make.

The server saves absolutely EVERY ride you drive, whether if you finish, press esc or die, and even if you're not playing a battle. As long as you're connected it will save your times in the database. This makes a fuckload of statistics possible to make. So give your ideas about what you would like to see, ideas for point formulas, or anything else. I'll write a little list later on with the stats that has already been decided on to make, but feel free to go crazy in the meanwhile.

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Last edited by skint0r on 26 May 2007, 10:18, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 15 May 2007, 10:37 
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whoa, sounds so cool.

Maybe needless to say but you can get a good example of statistics by visiting my old battle statistics page: http://koti.mbnet.fi/zebra/battles.html.

As you can see, there are stats like best player (points), best designer (amount of levels), best winning row, best designing row, average players per battle, average battle length, average winning time, total number of battles, statistics from each battle, total times, winning ratios etc.
These all would be quite cool. In the stats you can see that most players have been 19 in a single battle. In belma there's over 20 players in almost every battle so this shows immediately the interest in belma.
Maybe some of those stats (total times?) are not so important to have.
But if the server saves all the drives you drive, it could save finishing percentage and total playing time etc.

But more important than the zillions of different kind of statistics (i think) is that you could download the levs and winning recs from the stats page.
Maybe it would be somehow possible in belma for everybody (not just winner) to upload their rec to server and they could be downloaded too?

I have one more idea, which I got from trackmania. Each player would have his score and ranking and you could only get more points by winning a better player than you are (a player with more points i.e. a player with higher rank). For example if markku wins a battle, he wouldn't get any points, because he's already number 1 in the stats and he didn't beat anyone who is better than him. Then if zworqy makes the same, and beats 10 better drivers than he is, he gets 10 points and maybe passes someone in total rankings. I'm not sure how well this would work in elma but at least I like the idea. Maybe an extra point for victory could be given, that markku and jaytea and such ppl would get some points. Maybe even the time difference between players times or the battle length could matter to your points.

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PostPosted: 15 May 2007, 12:03 
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Amount of drives, amount of finishes, amount of deaths by killer, vertice or ESC, amount of improvement, amount of total playing time, amount of battling time versus the total time of the battles you were in, amount of kuskis beaten, average position, average position/amount of battles played, amount of keystrokes used, list of types of battles played and amount of that too, amount of apples taken in total.. everything I always wanted to know. :)


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PostPosted: 15 May 2007, 12:31 
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tijsjoris wrote:
Amount of drives, amount of finishes, amount of deaths by killer, vertice or ESC, amount of improvement, amount of total playing time, amount of battling time versus the total time of the battles you were in, amount of kuskis beaten, average position, average position/amount of battles played, amount of keystrokes used, list of types of battles played and amount of that too, amount of apples taken in total.. everything I always wanted to know. :)

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PostPosted: 15 May 2007, 12:57 
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I think it should be divided somehow into battles in new fresh levels and battles in old levels.

And then ofcourse internals, 1htt, no volt, always throttle ect. have there own stats.

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PostPosted: 15 May 2007, 13:28 
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Kopa, good one. Very clever indeed.


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PostPosted: 15 May 2007, 15:55 
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everything, simply everything. we want to know and to have stats, graphs concerning as many things as it is possible.


Zebra, you have a good idea, I also thought about that, it's a very factual thing, but might need quite a lot of work. Well, my idea was to do something like the chess rating. If it gets concerned, I will expose the details.


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PostPosted: 15 May 2007, 16:14 
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when the server saves every replay, is it possible to automatically upload the winner rec? because sometime it's slow, or someone forgets to upload (or i can't connect to the FTP for some reason... :/ )

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PostPosted: 15 May 2007, 16:17 
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Wrang topic.

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PostPosted: 15 May 2007, 16:40 
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wouldforward to seeing this ;OOO~

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PostPosted: 15 May 2007, 21:38 
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Lukazz wrote:
when the server saves every replay, is it possible to automatically upload the winner rec? because sometime it's slow, or someone forgets to upload (or i can't connect to the FTP for some reason... :/ )


It doesnt save every replay, just the stats about every ride.

And make graphstats of how many % of battles a certain person played each day so you can see how active one person is, so you can brag about playing 80% of the battles a day for a whole week ;O

Also graph stats to view how many total battles / players / total playtime by all players there has been over time.

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PostPosted: 15 May 2007, 23:23 
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also battle-WRs for every level, particularly internals, and battle-wr-tt in teh, and who teh. sach


edit: for example current battle-WR in Warm Up is 14.08, Zweq


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PostPosted: 16 May 2007, 16:38 
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berhabdul wrote:
also battle-WRs for every level, particularly internals, and battle-wr-tt in teh, and who teh. sach


edit: for example current battle-WR in Warm Up is 14.08, Zweq


Awesome idea, but put the effort into the external records pls :) Aaand a list with all the external levels which have been battled would be nice.

Btw thanks for this :)

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PostPosted: 25 May 2007, 01:42 
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Well a proper site is now finally up at http://b.attle.info/. Unfortunately it doesn't work properly in IE, but you should be able to navigate around anyway. As far as stats go, I haven't even started thinking about the system yet, but at least you can see a cute little graph with number of battles played each day.

Thanks for the suggestions so far, I'm still a bit unclear about what the final decision should be about the "main" point system, but I guess we'll figure out in the not-too-distant future.

Do feel free to come with suggestions regarding the site. The next priority is getting an "official" and thorough FAQ up, as there still seems to be a lot of unclear stuff for people about Belma and everything around it. And another priority is getting a panel of some sorts where you can change your nick, password, team and nationality. And some administrative features for the moderators so banning and such becomes easier.

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PostPosted: 25 May 2007, 02:38 
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I'm strongly for a ranking system where some n00b nolifing will not pass a skilled guy who doesn't play as often. Also, beating stronger players should give you more points than beating n00bs in battles. And winning should be significantly more rewarding than finishing second. Also, I think only new, fresh, 'normal mode' external level battle results w/ more than 10 players should count towards those rankings.

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PostPosted: 25 May 2007, 06:54 
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Score and ranking:


Should be in teh. I don't know about the Trackmania's system though, but I have played 2 different games with working ranking systems. Go mainly on KGS, and vp3 on gamespy. Some info and thoughts how they could work in belma.

Go, Kendo and other martial arts ranks:

Players can have 40 different ranks. Total beginner is 30kyu. A beginner is a 20kyu. A club player is around 10kyu. Single digit kyus are active (go ) players. After the strongest kyu player, 1kyu, comes the players who actually knows how to win. 1dan is a weakest "master". and 9dan is the strongest. (in some 10dan).

The way the games count to your rank depends on how strong player you beat or lost to, and how much games you have on your database. (in KGS)

If you have less than some 20 games in your record, there is a ? sign after your rank, which means, that your rank is not solid yet. Also a solid rank e.g. 3kyu, can become to 3kyu? if you stay inactive for long enough.

In belma, a grade from a one battle would need an average performance from it.

Factors:
"a player's rank and solid or non-solid." (Or the harder way. Everyone's game count counts)". Who you beat and who you lost to. If you perform little bit better than your rank said, it will have slight positive effect on the rank and vice versa.

Why the game count should matter? A strong player who starts belma, don't need go the ranks step by step, if he can beat over his average rank consecutively. Easiest way to fix this is to concentrate only to solid and non-solid ranks. Players with non-solid ranks have boosted effect on their rank, while for solid players playing non-solid players they have an opposite effect.

As for in the beginning.. Theorethically everyone could start from the same rank, but the development could be pretty slow. Based on the earlier stats, some active players could be given some direction giving ranks. Actually there in kgs are thousands of different ranks, but there are 40 visible ranks. This can be altered easily. If you look on some players rank graphs, you can see how detailed the development can be in go. First one is a player who has reached his peak. He has been a 4dan for over 2 years in kgs.
http://www.gokgs.com/graphPage.jsp?user=thecaptain or another player, who is clearly getting better: http://www.gokgs.com/graphPage.jsp?user=aquadude




System in VP3: A player with no games played, starts with 1500 points. He'll gain points from each victory. If he beats someone weaker than himself, he gets like 1 to 5 points, while beating stronger, it is something like 20 to even hundred. Nevertheless, the best players are stuck at around ~2400 points afair, so I don't know how to deal with it. Beginners usually have around 500 points. If you drop to 0 points, you reset to 1000. I don't know much details of this, since I didn't play vp3 on gamespy much, but it clearly isn't as good as the kgs go rank system.

Some similar system to vp3 gamespy is in myleague.com ladders at least ..[/url]


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PostPosted: 25 May 2007, 09:50 
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I wouldn't really like such a rank system. It should be rewarded to play many battles. Also if you have achived a high rank, you're likely to stop playing so much so you don't lose it again. I would be happy with just such point system as on zebra's old battles stats.

I do agree that only new, fresh, 'normal mode' external level battles should count towards the main point list.

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PostPosted: 25 May 2007, 09:57 
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kopa, then the ranks will simply state what you just said, who plays the most, not who is the best :/

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PostPosted: 25 May 2007, 10:59 
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why not all kind of stats :
1. most balles won
2. highest percentage of wins
3. highest percentage of players beaten - like if there are 5 players and you get 3rd, you get 50% for that balle, if 2nd, 75%, if 1st 100%
average of those would really show how good you are, it's definitely much harder to win balle with 20 players than some night balle with 5

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PostPosted: 25 May 2007, 11:11 
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Really nice page Skint the whole belma project is so max!!
Will it be possible to download winning rec too?

And is there another way to donate? I hate paypal, its a damn cutthroat.

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PostPosted: 25 May 2007, 11:20 
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No unfortunately I can't accept any other donation method, it's just too much of a hassle, but the thought is appreciated nonetheless. Paypal is just so easy since I also use it to pay for the server.

As far as ranking go, yes there definitely will be a ranking system, though not quite sure how it will work. I guess everybody will start with the same value, then rankings will change every week or so based on who you beat or who beat you in battles. All that will also affect the points you get for battles.

And yea, there will be a weighted system where bigger battles with more players gives you more point for the same placement. There will also be some small bonus points given based on how long you were leading a battle, how fast you got the leading/winning time, and also some relative comparison between times.

Ideas are easy to get, the problem is figuring out some kind of formula to use for all this.

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PostPosted: 25 May 2007, 12:20 
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Quote:
There will also be some small bonus points given based on how long you were leading a battle, how fast you got the leading/winning time,


I wouldn't do that, everyone has his personal style of playing a battle, some people prefer to hoyl/train the level through the whole battle time, and in the very end they make good times.


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PostPosted: 25 May 2007, 13:33 
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berhabdul wrote:
Quote:
There will also be some small bonus points given based on how long you were leading a battle, how fast you got the leading/winning time,


I wouldn't do that, everyone has his personal style of playing a battle, some people prefer to hoyl/train the level through the whole battle time, and in the very end they make good times.


+1

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PostPosted: 25 May 2007, 13:37 
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sounds good skint.

I was trying to figure out the kgs ranking formula, but I couldn't come up with it by simple reasoning, because of the game count factors and all. I could found info from the internet though. http://senseis.xmp.net/?KGSRatingMath it could be helfful.

Indeed getting the thing done must be little bit harder :o) hopefully you will have the energyz to put it in teh high in to-do priority list.... i know elmerz got game, so wont be up to skillz.. math and coder ppl ippai to get hints too.


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PostPosted: 25 May 2007, 19:03 
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Scenario example:
Player 1 gets 21,30, one minute after battle started
Player 2 gets 21,29, one second before end of battle

I think that Player 1 should get some small bonus points for leading the battle so long, and for having a really close relative time to the winner. Again, how much, how the formula should be etc, I have no idea.

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PostPosted: 26 May 2007, 14:52 
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Experience and time will learn which system is the best, question is, will the point system be changeable eventhough results are driven anyway?


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PostPosted: 26 May 2007, 15:07 
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Yes definitely, would be quite stupid if not. All times are just stored in one database table, there's nothing associated or bound to them regarding points. Whenever I'll try some algorithm it will go through that table and calculate points according to it, and store it in another table. Whenever a new battle occurs it will calculate the points for it without having to go through old battles. If the system changes, I'll only have to run the script again and tell it to calculate all the battles over from the beginning.

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PostPosted: 26 May 2007, 15:13 
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OK, it wasn't fully clear to me yet. I will ask my dad soon to help me with his credit card so I can donate 20e (yes, the 20e I should had sent to moposite earlier - this is a better use actually).

I can only stress the fact that we all should donate, I love those guys who already were generous enough for doing so.


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PostPosted: 27 May 2007, 09:59 
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I've noticed that there's this awesome diagram on the index page. I Must know how you did this :D. Could someone gimme a code, or gimme a link to a page which tells you how to do this?

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PostPosted: 27 May 2007, 10:06 
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It's made with a PHP script called JpGraph. You can do all sorts of crazy graphs with it, it's very flexible and customizable. It can be hard to understand at first though.

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PostPosted: 27 May 2007, 10:15 
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skint0r wrote:
It's made with a PHP script called JpGraph. You can do all sorts of crazy graphs with it, it's very flexible and customizable. It can be hard to understand at first though.

Thanks, I'll get to it :)

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PostPosted: 27 May 2007, 20:49 
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tijsjoris wrote:
OK, it wasn't fully clear to me yet. I will ask my dad soon to help me with his credit card so I can donate 20e (yes, the 20e I should had sent to moposite earlier - this is a better use actually).

I can only stress the fact that we all should donate, I love those guys who already were generous enough for doing so.

:*
Yes I can only agree, max thanks to the ones who've donated so far, the response has been overwhelming. I wasn't even sure if the server would stay up another month, but you guys proved me otherwise. LOVE YOU!

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PostPosted: 27 May 2007, 20:52 
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Some clear info about how to donate would be very helpful to me, I would even donate a couple of euros if someone could help me :)

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PostPosted: 27 May 2007, 21:04 
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I'm not really sure if I can make it much clearer, I think the process is already pretty simple enough, or? :)
Clicking the donation link on the right sidebar will take you to the donations page with the list of all the current donators etc., then just click the donate button on the bottom. PayPal should be rather intuitive to use as well, but you'll obviously need a credit card in order to use it.

As for now, this is the only way to donate. Getting money in the mail, being sent checks, or doing bank transfers are just too much of a hassle. Though don't get me wrong, I appreciate the thought. I pay the server through PayPal myself, so having all the money in there is extremely convinient, and it stops me from accidently spending it on something else, like I might have if I had the cash in my pocket instead.

You don't need to sign up to use PayPal, but if you don't have a credit card, then you're out of luck I'm afraid. Perhaps you can get someone else to do it for you?

So far it hasn't been much of an issue, but if there are A LOT of people unable to pay with PayPal, perhaps I'll consider some other options, though it would be best if you could somehow manage to find a way to pay through someone else instead.

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PostPosted: 27 May 2007, 21:46 
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skint0r wrote:
I'm not really sure if I can make it much clearer, I think the process is already pretty simple enough, or? :)
Clicking the donation link on the right sidebar will take you to the donations page with the list of all the current donators etc., then just click the donate button on the bottom. PayPal should be rather intuitive to use as well, but you'll obviously need a credit card in order to use it.

As for now, this is the only way to donate. Getting money in the mail, being sent checks, or doing bank transfers are just too much of a hassle. Though don't get me wrong, I appreciate the thought. I pay the server through PayPal myself, so having all the money in there is extremely convinient, and it stops me from accidently spending it on something else, like I might have if I had the cash in my pocket instead.

You don't need to sign up to use PayPal, but if you don't have a credit card, then you're out of luck I'm afraid. Perhaps you can get someone else to do it for you?

So far it hasn't been much of an issue, but if there are A LOT of people unable to pay with PayPal, perhaps I'll consider some other options, though it would be best if you could somehow manage to find a way to pay through someone else instead.

I'll ask my mom to help me for sure, but she is normally very careful with internet payments and shit so I doubt she will be to keane on it :(.

I've got a card which I use to withdraw money from the bank with, the noobily fella I am, I don't know if that is a creditcard or not. Is it? If it is then I'll ask my mom to help me with the transfer.

I wont give up even if none of the above works. I'd be happy to post the money to you, but as you said - this is not as convinient as paypal. Could you help me out please :P? Is this a creditcard I've got? If not, and if my mom doesn't feel like helping out, could I send it to you in a letter?

thanks :)

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PostPosted: 27 May 2007, 21:54 
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No, that's not a credit card. I don't know about Sweden, but you most likely have to be over 18 to get a credit card there as well (e.g., Visa, Mastercard, American Express, whatever). Maybe you know some other Swedish player you trust, who has a credit card and that you can send money to?

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PostPosted: 27 May 2007, 22:17 
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skint0r wrote:
No, that's not a credit card. I don't know about Sweden, but you most likely have to be over 18 to get a credit card there as well (e.g., Visa, Mastercard, American Express, whatever). Maybe you know some other Swedish player you trust, who has a credit card and that you can send money to?

I'll look into that :) Anyways, I'll be gone tomorrow so no time to donate then. I'll try as soon as possible!

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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2007, 15:20 
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skint0r said few days ago on irc that he still needed ideas.

SmultroNET uses some ranking system.

Code:
Rating is a measurement of how good a player is. High rating means better player. New players start from 1000 rating points, but are rated "Rookie" until they have played ten games (please note that you need to play registered to be rated). When a game is about to begin, every player throws 10 percent of its total rating into the pot.

For example, A, B and C with ratings 1000, 1000 and 2000 are playing. A and B put 100 rating points each to the pot, when C put 200 points.

Because player C is very high rated, he/she has to defeat the players with higher amount of points to not lose rating. The exact rating algorithm can be found here: [url=http://albin.abo.fi/~joanas/smultronet/ranking-algorithm.pdf]ranking-algorithm.pdf[/url].


In smultronet you earn points in the games by taking stones, and the rankings are calculated from how many points you get.

So for this to work in elma you could first use the point system used in old battle stats.

Example:

1. zworqy 25,24 - 8p
2. markku 27,54 - 6p
3. kopaka 27,99 - 5p
4. enil 29,88 - 4p
5. terb0 30,01 - 3p
6. katten 31,22 - 2p
7. tijsjoris 31,23 - 1p

Say everyone has 1000 rating points, which means 700 points are added to the pot. Overall there has been given 29 points. zworqy get's 8 = 27,58% of the total points, which means he gets 27,58% of rating points = 193,06. He gave 100 to the pot, which means he earns 93 ranting points.

tijsjoris got 1 = 3,45% of all points, which means he get's 3,45% of rating points = 24,15. He also gave 100 to the pot so he loses 76 rating points.

It could maybe be calculated from peoples times instead, though I don't know how that should work.

Also juski's suggestion in kopasite topic could maybe be used.
http://www.moposite.com/mopolauta/viewt ... 688#133688


This might be completely stupid ideas though, I can't really figure out if it will be good systems.

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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2007, 07:03 
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sounds good

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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2007, 09:32 
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i think it's dumb to lose points!
if anybody knows how the trackmania nations online ranking works please write here, i would like to have it for belma

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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2007, 09:42 
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How about some other payment option for donation, co'z i find paypal bit hard. Account transfer or something would be good.

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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2007, 12:08 
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I made some simulations and this ranking system seems to be working fine.
It would balance itself, quite well, if we assume 1000 point is the starter, best players would have about max 2000-2200.
More than that is hard to reach, especially when many low ranked players online, you would actually lose points even if you win (guess that can be zeroed at least). :)
Don't think the result times should be involved in rankings.

edit:
tested another system, where you split the players of a battle into two groups, the ones ahead and the ones behind you.
Basically you get points if you beat a high RP (ranking points) averaged group, and lose points if a lower averaged group beats you.
This way you couldn't lose points when you win, neither win points when you are last.
With some fine-tuning of the percentages of these averages and the gained/lost point i found a kind of stable equation that might work. It should be tested on a real database though.

One main problem is you gain less RP when:
- you are in a 4 player game and beat Markku jaytea and axxu,
than
- you are in a 10 player game and beat those three and 6 other noobs.


There could be also a simplier version of this, where you get points after beating equally good or better players, and lose points when you get beaten by equally good or better players.
These comparisons could be done in RP percentages, for example
if you have 1000 RP then equally good players are 800-1200 RP, etc.
You would get let's say 1 point for beating an equal player (at the same time he would lose that 1 point), 2 points for a way better one (1200+ RP in this case), etc.
This would keep the system simple, and would practically limit the amount of RP you can have, so crazy höylas don't get a too big advantage.

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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2007, 17:43 
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KD wrote:
and would practically limit the amount of RP you can have, so crazy höylas don't get a too big advantage.


Why shouldn't they?

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discussed it a bit at across and i came up with some idea that seems to be ok so we will use that one for the time being

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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2007, 09:35 
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milagros wrote:
discussed it a bit at across and i came up with some idea that seems to be ok so we will use that one for the time being
Could you tell what this idea is?

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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2007, 20:12 
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it was like this
lets say players on 1.-4. position had ranks A,B,C,D before
after balles ranks will be
A(n+1) = A(n) * (1 + k*exp(q*(B(n)-A(n)))) * (1 + k*exp(q*(C(n)-A(n)))) * (1 + k*exp(q*(D(n)-A(n))))
B(n+1) = B(n) / (1 + k*exp(q*(B(n)-A(n)))) * (1 + k*exp(q*(C(n)-B(n)))) * (1 + k*exp(q*(D(n)-B(n))))
C(n+1) = C(n) / (1 + k*exp(q*(C(n)-A(n)))) / (1 + k*exp(q*(C(n)-B(n)))) * (1 + k*exp(q*(D(n)-C(n))))
D(n+1) = D(n) / (1 + k*exp(q*(D(n)-A(n)))) / (1 + k*exp(q*(D(n)-B(n)))) / (1 + k*exp(q*(D(n)-C(n))))
there will be also some max/min value of exp(..) so it wont be any unstable
these rules would keep A(n)*B(n)*C(n)*D(n) constant
if someone much better beats someone who sax, it will increase his coefficient by some 1.000001 and decrease the others one byt same 1.000001, if someone much worse beats someone, ez increase weight a bit more, constants q,k will be some 0.01 or smth, simply somehow set (it means the speed of ranks changing), starting value will be some 1000 or 1.000 or smth, goodplayers will have >1, bad players <1
its not decided if 0 apples results are taken, if same times means same position or not and if same apples means same result (definitely for 0 apples)

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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2007, 00:03 
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Definately not the easiest solution :?

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it is ez, you just mutliply by weight if you win, and divide if you loose
ez has some nice properties like if players a,b,c,d play 10000 balles together, after all of them they cant have all more points then at the beginning = not playing balle is kinda nat punished, other thing is that you cant improve by playing only with n00bs

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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2007, 08:21 
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milagros wrote:
it is ez, you just mutliply by weight if you win, and divide if you loose
ez has some nice properties like if players a,b,c,d play 10000 balles together, after all of them they cant have all more points then at the beginning = not playing balle is kinda nat punished, other thing is that you cant improve by playing only with n00bs


Your formulas seem to be quite good i think.

About the thing that players cant get more points: you said that the product of the points (or ranks, is it the same thing) will be same all the time. Now lets assume that all the 4 players have ranks 1, 1, 1 and 1 when they start playing (totally 4 points, product = 1). In the end their points are 1000, 0.1, 0.1 and 0.1 (product = 1), which makes totally 1000.3 points, which is much more than what they had in the beginning.

About the thing that balle is nat punished: the example showed that the three players actually lost points which means that they got punished.

Maybe the constant k would be bigger in longer battles, like (duration in minutes) * 0.001?

Should there be bonus point(s) for winner? Or should the product of the points be little more than it was before a battle? I don't know if this kind of thing is desired, even if it's little (i mean, the more you play the more you'll get points)...
hmm... maybe there are some noobs playing everytime so you get the bonus points from them.

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Last edited by zebra on 25 Jun 2007, 17:43, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2007, 13:23 
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i meant they cant all gain points - if players have 1, 1, 1, 1, after multiple balles they cant have 1.001, 1.001, 1.001, 1.001 - they will simply redistribute points between each other
your example of 1000, 0.1, 0.1, 0.1 is not worth to comment:) its not sum that is asved but product.. anyway all ranks are kinda convergent, noone will get 500, because one 2nd place would lower him then so that he has to win another 100 balles to get to same rank

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