Elma Online rules discussion

Kopaka · Post by **Kopaka** » 29 Nov 2008, 17:40

I thought it would be good with a set of concrete rules and banning system in the new version so I wrote this http://zworqy.com/elmawiki/index.php/Ne ... suggestion

Didn't get much feedback from the test group so I would like to know what people think of it.

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 29 Nov 2008, 17:59

what does 1.2 rule means? i dont understand teh... whats bad in it?

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 29 Nov 2008, 18:23

Looks good, but it's category, not catagory.

Also, this doesn't make sense to me at all:

3.1 Started the same a battle on the same level with same settings more than once

And:

In extreme cases these can give an imediate one year or even permanent ban.

Finally:

you can send a ban apeal

But like I said, looks good.

Smibu · Post by **Smibu** » 29 Nov 2008, 18:27

First time disobeying a rule you'll get a warning, second time a one week ban and third time a one year ban.

Isn't the third time ban a bit long? I think it should be maybe 1-2 months if second time is just a week. And maybe 4th time disobeying, 5th disobeying etc... should result in some less-than-a-year ban. Year only in extreme cases.

New rule: Not allowed (Chat): Insulting other players for no reason.

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 29 Nov 2008, 18:36

I think when it comes to cheating the banning system is really okay. Same goes for the starting balles thing, I mean, we have to be strict on that. About that language thing, I think the rules are kinda flexible there. It's not like you get a warning for using the word orka. In any case, rules apply to those cases in which the appeal to common sense is not preferable.

Post by **SveinR** » 29 Nov 2008, 18:37

Looks OK, but as Smibu said, quite big gap between 2nd and 3rd time. But then again, people should have learnt their lesson after a 1 week ban...

Since some offenses are a lot more serious than others, I feel they should have stricter punishment (1.1, 4.2, for instance). And some should perhaps have less strict, such as 2.1, 2.2.

zworqy · Post by **zworqy** » 29 Nov 2008, 19:35

tijsjoris wrote:Also, this doesn't make sense to me at all:
3.1 Started the same a battle on the same level with same settings more than once

I means "Starting the same battle more than once in a certain level".

Does that sound better?

FinMan · Post by **FinMan** » 29 Nov 2008, 20:20

And, crippling possible after the real battle or if it was already crippled, you can start normal there.

western · Post by **western** » 29 Nov 2008, 20:24

why ban? they just change nick or wait for ip to change and get back on it again. just tell them it's not good and ask them to stop and they will. won't they? it's not like they're immature jerks that without some form of punishment have no motivation to change their actions for the better... /2 cents

Kopaka · Post by **Kopaka** » 29 Nov 2008, 20:52

Okay have added that minor offenses might be overlooked the first couple of times, and agree with what jappe just said, so changed 3.1 to "Starting a battle on the same level more than once"

Sla · Post by **Sla** » 30 Nov 2008, 01:58

Jappe wrote:
pawq is stupid btw, did you guys know this?

oh yes mr, i have noticed of it some days ago. cant agree more.

western · Post by **western** » 30 Nov 2008, 03:46

Pawq wrote:what does 1.2 rule means? i dont understand teh... whats bad in it?

I don't understand it either. does that mean I'm stupid too?

Grace · Post by **Grace** » 30 Nov 2008, 04:01

well rule 1.2 works in 2 ways.

for battle types such as first finish, there is a 1 minute countdown before you play the level, and rule 1.2 prevents people from EXITING BELMA, TAKING THE LEVEL TO A NONBELMA FOLDER AND TESTING IT BEFORE THE COUNTDOWN IS OVER

also, in one life battles, disconnecting from belma, going to elma.exe and testing the level a few times before using your life in belma.

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 30 Nov 2008, 10:00

omg great
this reply jappe is much more kind and those 2 explained to me the whole thing. and big thanks to guys who said that i am stupid, those answers helped me the most with understanding the rule

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 30 Nov 2008, 12:19

And what if you go to editor?

totem · Post by **totem** » 30 Nov 2008, 14:38

I always do that, no problem imo

It's not as if you were playing the lev

EDIT : 3.3 Starting battles on offensive, buggy or otherwise unsuitable levels
i'm not sure this rule could be applied effectively. One can say the first nab's lev to break that rule, although it's just a nab lev

insane guy · Post by **insane guy** » 30 Nov 2008, 15:26

3.3 Starting battles on offensive, buggy or otherwise unsuitable levels

This is hard to define: is a really bad noob lev an offensive or unsuitable lev? Sometimes people shout to abort a noob or crap lev, just because its not that much fun, allthough it is a playable lev. I donÂ´t really have a solution for this, but itÂ´s kinda unfair for noob designers if their levs always get abortet.

Bug levs ez abort.

western · Post by **western** » 30 Nov 2008, 15:42

well personally, I think if the nab has basic knowledge of the game, he can still make something nice

totem · Post by **totem** » 30 Nov 2008, 17:21

western wrote:well personally, I think if the nab has basic knowledge of the game, he can still make something nice

and if he doesn't, he can still be banned. At least he has 3 tries to make a lev considered as enough good
definitely, this rule has to be reconsidered

Kopaka · Post by **Kopaka** » 30 Nov 2008, 17:29

Ofcourse rule 3.3 should only apply for levels that are impossible to finish and such. "bad" levels should never be aborted.

I know you can't know if someone goes to editor or something to see/play the level, but that doesn't mean it should be allowed.

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 30 Nov 2008, 17:35

I personally agree with Kopaka. In One-Life or First-Finish balles players are supposed NOT to know the levels, so even only looking at teh in the editor can change everything, and sometimes even the nabbiest kuski could win if he looked at lev in the editor. Dunno if this is possible, but maybe mila could do such feature, it would just lock the balled (countdowned) level so hard, that nobody can open it in 60sec. it would prevent few ppl from cheating.

western · Post by **western** » 30 Nov 2008, 17:53

or else permit what totem said. if there is no way to stop it, then allow it.

Post by **SveinR** » 30 Nov 2008, 18:06

Not checking lev in editor is stupid. Or, you're atleast creating a disadvantage for yourself, for no reason. It's hardly cheating to use one of the game's built-in features to have a look at the level.

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 1 Dec 2008, 01:17

Right, but sometimes I have this nifty use of surprise in onelife balles, for instance 2 days ago when I was in belma after a 3 week nonelma streak, I made a long slope with the flower underneath it. When you drove fast, you died to a wall. Everyone could've checked that in editor, and I think only leetskeet did (out of 10 perhaps?).

In any case, it's still impossible to avoid this, so I continue to watch in editor myself. It was just a devil's advocate thingie on my side saying that.

Secondly, I like to react to this thing about bad levels. I unfortunately end up with unfinishable levels quite a lot with my levelmaking skills, does it mean that I'm gonna be banned for a whole year when belma eol final comes out? That would kinda suck yea.

western · Post by **western** » 1 Dec 2008, 01:24

a one-year lauta ban ensuring the stalling of your post count should suffice. ;)

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 1 Dec 2008, 01:25

hey wise guy, shut up.

Orcc · Post by **Orcc** » 1 Dec 2008, 10:30

What about playing own levs? Not really a bannable offense, but still...

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 1 Dec 2008, 10:37

Oah damn I do that too ;s

Bosky · Post by **Bosky** » 1 Dec 2008, 11:55

What means 'Drunk'? : o

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 1 Dec 2008, 12:13

wonder why did you paste pic with bug:/

Kopaka · Post by **Kopaka** » 1 Dec 2008, 14:09

Yes tijsjoris, in fact I've already added your ip to the ban list.

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 1 Dec 2008, 17:54

damn, it looks a bit complicated. first of all, what does 'apple' batlletype means? who has the most apples is normal..

next, speed balle goal is to reach the highest average, or top speed??
finally, see times and apple bugs are rly addictive, but drunk??]
thx for explanation in advance, even if my questions are rly stupid -_-

western · Post by **western** » 1 Dec 2008, 18:14

man, top speed would be awesome! highest air time too!

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 1 Dec 2008, 18:22

O_o highest air time sounds great

and also the biggest height (highest jump) would be max nice, could u think about it, mila kopa or anybody?

western · Post by **western** » 1 Dec 2008, 18:38

my first idea was highest height too, but I've figured that (given physics laws) this was almost the same as highest air time (since there isn't any air in the kuski world, helmet's purpose being to provide oxygen), condition being not to touch any kind of ground as air time is synonym for no-ground time.

Post by **SveinR** » 1 Dec 2008, 18:38

Pawq wrote:damn, it looks a bit complicated. first of all, what does 'apple' batlletype means? who has the most apples is normal..
next, speed balle goal is to reach the highest average, or top speed??
finally, see times and apple bugs are rly addictive, but drunk??]
thx for explanation in advance, even if my questions are rly stupid -_-

Speed is highest top speed. A normal battle is pretty much a highest average speed battle.
Drunk is reversed throttle/brake and left/right, if I am not mistaken.

western · Post by **western** » 1 Dec 2008, 18:41

SveinR wrote:Drunk is reversed throttle/brake and left/right, if I am not mistaken.

that sounds stupid, just change keys input and voila!

Post by **SveinR** » 1 Dec 2008, 18:45

western wrote:
SveinR wrote:Drunk is reversed throttle/brake and left/right, if I am not mistaken.
that sounds stupid, just change keys input and voila!

It's reversed for each apple you take, sorry for omitting.

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 1 Dec 2008, 18:46

thx and im waiting for the rest of explanation, but i wont agree in the matter of highest average speed. there could be 2 ways, one short and slow, the second much longer and also faster, and while av. speed of first run is 10m/s and time is 10s, and av. speed of the second run is 12m/s and time is 20s the second could win. thats what i meant

Post by **SveinR** » 1 Dec 2008, 18:49

Pawq wrote:damn, it looks a bit complicated. first of all, what does 'apple' batlletype means? who has the most apples is normal..

Probably this:

milagros wrote:b) apple collecting balle (pro needed)- secret-area-like apple collecting where you have to take most number of different apples but deosn't have to be in one run, replay won't be saved, flower hidden(?)

Everything is pretty much explained here: http://mopolauta.moposite.com/viewtopic ... 02#p143502

Post by **SveinR** » 1 Dec 2008, 18:52

Pawq wrote:thx and im waiting for the rest of explanation, but i wont agree in the matter of highest average speed. there could be 2 ways, one short and slow, the second much longer and also faster, and while av. speed of first run is 10m/s and time is 10s, and av. speed of the second run is 12m/s and time is 20s the second could win. thats what i meant

Hm yes, indeed. For some reason I forgot about styles/runs having different path lengths from the start to the exit.

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 1 Dec 2008, 18:56

oh, thx sveinr its rly good explained. but only one "

"

milagros wrote:expected time of release - feb08

It is currently 1 Dec 2008, 18:56
dame
could u renew the expected time of release plz?

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 2 Dec 2008, 05:23

Pawq wrote:oh, thx sveinr its rly good explained. but only one " "
milagros wrote:expected time of release - feb08
It is currently 1 Dec 2008, 18:56
dame
could u renew the expected time of release plz?

Christmas

Lukazz · Post by **Lukazz** » 2 Dec 2008, 10:16

Jappe wrote:dont think so

summer 2009? o_O

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 2 Dec 2008, 21:32

in the year 2525,...du du du, du du du du du, etc. insert some orchestra here.

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 3 Dec 2008, 08:43

only mila knows, probably have to wait a while for multi & cheatprotection (thanks to all those that xiited) and possibly some other features. problem is not mila not knowing how to do it all, he surely has a clear vision of how and what to do from this point to a finished version. it is just he cant be arsed.

if he really wanted, we'd play new version in 2 days from now on

but he's like 5 mins on sunday morning procoder

western · Post by **western** » 3 Dec 2008, 16:04

Zweq wrote:probably have to wait a while for multi & cheatprotection (thanks to all those that xiited)

oh, heyyyy... those kind of things pretty much are inevitable in such a scenario, you know

zebra · Post by **zebra** » 4 Dec 2008, 07:25

Code: Select all

3.1 Starting a battle on the same level more than once

hmm... this means that internal battles are forbidden, even 24htt battles and such

Code: Select all

3.2 Starting battle in levels created by somebody else

What's the problem here? If the level is new for everybody. Like, if your brother had made some levels and he had given permission for you to start those in elma online.

Code: Select all

4.4 Joining a team you're not officially a member of

Does this mean that there are no team passwords? I think there should be...

Joining a team shouldn't be possible just like that because then you could easily check if team member have shared some recs to each other (if kopaka implements that feature).

Kopaka · Post by **Kopaka** » 4 Dec 2008, 13:55

Should add "common sense allowed"

Anyway, not sure what we're doing about teams yet no. Any ideas are welcome (:

zebra · Post by **zebra** » 4 Dec 2008, 17:28

Kopaka wrote:Should add "common sense allowed"

Anyway, not sure what we're doing about teams yet no. Any ideas are welcome (:

The team system could be like in moposite, if not directly from there (i guess not if the players are not from there either). One player makes a team and can add/remove players from the team. Other team members can then add/remove players too if they want. Actually team password isn't needed if played can't join a team by himself.

There could be team statistics like internal total times and ranking and stuff (and i guess there are already?). In belma there is that 'team members can see each other' option, is it still working?

And that replay thing, I think we agreed something about it in irc. I guess it was like this: Player can 'validate' his replay on a certain level by uploading a replay file on the site. He can choose who can see the replay: level designer/team members/all. This wouldn't mean that every record should be 'validated' or that it wouldn't be accepted officially without the replay file, but in this way ppl could easily share the recs they want and other ppl would be happy to see great recs