Do we want a new version of Elma?

Feature requests and ideas for the new unofficial versions of Elma and general talk related to those.

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Ropelli
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Ropelli » 9 Dec 2012, 16:52

I guess it's time to tell something about the progress of this project again..

We've been quite busy writing the rendering code, trying to make the elma2 look as same as the original elastomania. We just managed to complete the kuski's rendering code, which includes all the arm animations and kuskis turn animations etc. The rendering code for scenery is roughly halfway done now, and we try to finalize it as soon as possible :p In addition to the rendering code, we have also made some modifications to the menusystem, for example providing resolution changes and windowed/fullscreen mode.

If everything goes well and relatively fast, we maybe could release some very-alpha version of the elma2, mainly for gaining some feedback and suggestions on how to implement the final elma2 version. It's still rather open question how the menu & gameplay should be separated, or how those two should be combined. For example, in eol and belma most of the functionality happens inside the gameplay, and I think that's something elma2 should provide.

And here is the current look of elma2: http://i.imgur.com/pLKkd.png
Note though, the menu "look" is the default CEGUI skin, and it can be easily changed.

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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by pawq » 9 Dec 2012, 17:23

It starts getting exciting, can't wait for more news!

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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by abruzzi » 9 Dec 2012, 17:40

Will it be online-oriented?
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Zweq » 9 Dec 2012, 19:39

is that still using the reverse engineered original physics code or did you already 'separate' physics and rendering? and what kind of decisions have you made or will make about the physics updates per second?

good job, im sure this will turn out great
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Tigro » 9 Dec 2012, 20:31

8O
pls implement folder-recognising in the level and reclay folder, to make sorting levs/recs easier.
This looks so-darn GOOD! :D
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by J-sim » 9 Dec 2012, 22:22

some more or less obvious things for menus:
the option to browse all replays for a level inside the level's menu. the option to chose replays for top 10 times within a level's top 10.
top 100(00..) instead of top10?

dates for replays.
replay playlists.

some cool ways of sorting replays if somehow possible. by driver, date, level, designer, reclength (more?).


i bet there's a lot of other cool possibilities.


edit: download replays from server.

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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Thundr- » 11 Dec 2012, 02:38

Chris wrote:Give me a reason to leave vsync as it is now. Why we should still be bond to someones subjective judgment of what is bug bounce and what is not, while we have now unique opportunity to get rid of them?
All this talk about bug bounces... When talking about bug bounces and "relying on px or Abula judgment": this is something has ever in history only been an issue in enigma. Vsync and fps isnt related only to bug bounces though, the majority of it isnt about bounces at all. Its the small things such as zampee int04 wr style at 40 fps, int02 start, int34 start at 100fps, int 31 bangoing at the rooster head both old and new style at 60 fps, and I believe nekit did his amazing int21 wr at 32 fps? When i did my enduro wr i lowered fps down from max to 400-500 because the bike becomes more flexible and the wheel pressure at the end went from a 1/10 trick to a 1/5. etc etc etc.

Its about grip, flexibility, rotation, and yes, bounces too. When playing a 15 min battle almost none of this matters, you wont have time to think about such fps values and issues and therefore really isnt a part of the game at all. For the internalists however you wouldnt be "fixing" anything, you would be "removing" a feature that makes the game more interesting and then render some tricks, shortcuts and times completely impossible to achieve. Internals would die, and the internalists would quit. For me it seems a little bit like going back to Across. Creating a new set of internals would never have the same affect, would not draw the same attention and a decade of hardcore dedicated stylefinding and amazing wrs. Such a notion seems completely astronomical to imagine, because internals are so incredibly legendary that you cant really replace them with anything. I agree with Madness that it would most likely have the same effect as EOL pack/Lost Ints/OLP pack - all which were good attempts of creating something new internal-wise yet barely reached like what 0,001% attention because of read the previous statement I just made. There are millions of levels and levpacks, people just dont play them as much because we have played these 54 levels for 13 years, and just pasting some new levels and declare them "the new internals forever" is never going to work just because you say so. A good example: Its a little bit like changing the original first super mario 1 level, changing the official color of sonic the hedgehog to green or make Disney produce the next star wars movie, you just dont do that and expect the entire world to recognize. Yet again if you never dedicated to play the internals you wouldnt really understand what Im trying to get with this.

Even after saying all this, no matter how you alter the game mechanics, not everyone will like all the changes. Belma and EOL was perfect because it didnt remove anything, it just added things. In my opinion this project is a superb chance to add many many great things to the game that we have always wanted. But be really REALLY careful when considering something such as "removing" a thing that has a huge impact like FPS. No matter if Balazs original idea with Elma wasnt anything like this, or if vsync is "technically" a glitch. You may think this is simply fixing a flaw in the game, but its a tremendous change to the actual GAMEPLAY which is 100% of what elma is, cuz I really dont think anyone plays this game for the great storytelling.

Its not simply changing/fixing "elma" either. There's a huge distinction between internals and battles for example in terms of gameplay. Left alovolt would be a cool feature to have in battles, the biggest complain would be that we just need to get used to having an extra button to click, but fuck me does this add severe ramifications for playing internals? Millions of hours spent to perfect some styles, now there is suddenly a sea of undiscovered styles in probably every single level. The life-span of playing internals may increase another 10 years. Probably a bad example this, but seeing as no one else has mentioned any differences in battles/internals i thought i just might add this final thought. Someone else can probably conjure up some other differences as well.

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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Madness » 11 Dec 2012, 12:20

Well said, I completely concur with the first three paragraphs. Although adding the left alovolt would have the same effect. It would change everything in Internals so much, that it would feel like completely new levels and some might stick to playing the older version instead.
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Thundr- » 11 Dec 2012, 13:04

Madness wrote:Well said, I completely concur with the first three paragraphs. Although adding the left alovolt would have the same effect. It would change everything in Internals so much, that it would feel like completely new levels and some might stick to playing the older version instead.
The last paragraph was simply an example to demonstrate that there are big differences between internals and battles with a change such as left alo. Personally I dont want left alo either for the exact same reasons you said.

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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Madness » 11 Dec 2012, 14:34

Thundr- wrote:
Madness wrote:
Thundr- wrote:
Chris wrote:Give me a reason to leave vsync as it is now. Why we should still be bond to someones subjective judgment of what is bug bounce and what is not, while we have now unique opportunity to get rid of them?
All this talk about bug bounces... When talking about bug bounces and "relying on px or Abula judgment": this is something has ever in history only been an issue in enigma. Vsync and fps isnt related only to bug bounces though, the majority of it isnt about bounces at all. Its the small things such as zampee int04 wr style at 40 fps, int02 start, int34 start at 100fps, int 31 bangoing at the rooster head both old and new style at 60 fps, and I believe nekit did his amazing int21 wr at 32 fps? When i did my enduro wr i lowered fps down from max to 400-500 because the bike becomes more flexible and the wheel pressure at the end went from a 1/10 trick to a 1/5. etc etc etc.

Its about grip, flexibility, rotation, and yes, bounces too. When playing a 15 min battle almost none of this matters, you wont have time to think about such fps values and issues and therefore really isnt a part of the game at all. For the internalists however you wouldnt be "fixing" anything, you would be "removing" a feature that makes the game more interesting and then render some tricks, shortcuts and times completely impossible to achieve. Internals would die, and the internalists would quit. For me it seems a little bit like going back to Across. Creating a new set of internals would never have the same affect, would not draw the same attention and a decade of hardcore dedicated stylefinding and amazing wrs. Such a notion seems completely astronomical to imagine, because internals are so incredibly legendary that you cant really replace them with anything. I agree with Madness that it would most likely have the same effect as EOL pack/Lost Ints/OLP pack - all which were good attempts of creating something new internal-wise yet barely reached like what 0,001% attention because of read the previous statement I just made. There are millions of levels and levpacks, people just dont play them as much because we have played these 54 levels for 13 years, and just pasting some new levels and declare them "the new internals forever" is never going to work just because you say so. A good example: Its a little bit like changing the original first super mario 1 level, changing the official color of sonic the hedgehog to green or make Disney produce the next star wars movie, you just dont do that and expect the entire world to recognize. Yet again if you never dedicated to play the internals you wouldnt really understand what Im trying to get with this.

Even after saying all this, no matter how you alter the game mechanics, not everyone will like all the changes. Belma and EOL was perfect because it didnt remove anything, it just added things. In my opinion this project is a superb chance to add many many great things to the game that we have always wanted. But be really REALLY careful when considering something such as "removing" a thing that has a huge impact like FPS. No matter if Balazs original idea with Elma wasnt anything like this, or if vsync is "technically" a glitch. You may think this is simply fixing a flaw in the game, but its a tremendous change to the actual GAMEPLAY which is 100% of what elma is, cuz I really dont think anyone plays this game for the great storytelling.

Its not simply changing/fixing "elma" either. There's a huge distinction between internals and battles for example in terms of gameplay. Left alovolt would be a cool feature to have in battles, the biggest complain would be that we just need to get used to having an extra button to click, but fuck me does this add severe ramifications for playing internals? Millions of hours spent to perfect some styles, now there is suddenly a sea of undiscovered styles in probably every single level. The life-span of playing internals may increase another 10 years. Probably a bad example this, but seeing as no one else has mentioned any differences in battles/internals i thought i just might add this final thought. Someone else can probably conjure up some other differences as well.
Well said, I completely concur with the first three paragraphs. Although adding the left alovolt would have the same effect. It would change everything in Internals so much, that it would feel like completely new levels and some might stick to playing the older version instead.
The last paragraph was simply an example to demonstrate that there are big differences between internals and battles with a change such as left alo. Personally I dont want left alo either for the exact same reasons you said.
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by 8-ball » 11 Dec 2012, 15:05

Madness wrote:
Thundr- wrote:
Madness wrote:
Thundr- wrote:
Chris wrote:Give me a reason to leave vsync as it is now. Why we should still be bond to someones subjective judgment of what is bug bounce and what is not, while we have now unique opportunity to get rid of them?
All this talk about bug bounces... When talking about bug bounces and "relying on px or Abula judgment": this is something has ever in history only been an issue in enigma. Vsync and fps isnt related only to bug bounces though, the majority of it isnt about bounces at all. Its the small things such as zampee int04 wr style at 40 fps, int02 start, int34 start at 100fps, int 31 bangoing at the rooster head both old and new style at 60 fps, and I believe nekit did his amazing int21 wr at 32 fps? When i did my enduro wr i lowered fps down from max to 400-500 because the bike becomes more flexible and the wheel pressure at the end went from a 1/10 trick to a 1/5. etc etc etc.

Its about grip, flexibility, rotation, and yes, bounces too. When playing a 15 min battle almost none of this matters, you wont have time to think about such fps values and issues and therefore really isnt a part of the game at all. For the internalists however you wouldnt be "fixing" anything, you would be "removing" a feature that makes the game more interesting and then render some tricks, shortcuts and times completely impossible to achieve. Internals would die, and the internalists would quit. For me it seems a little bit like going back to Across. Creating a new set of internals would never have the same affect, would not draw the same attention and a decade of hardcore dedicated stylefinding and amazing wrs. Such a notion seems completely astronomical to imagine, because internals are so incredibly legendary that you cant really replace them with anything. I agree with Madness that it would most likely have the same effect as EOL pack/Lost Ints/OLP pack - all which were good attempts of creating something new internal-wise yet barely reached like what 0,001% attention because of read the previous statement I just made. There are millions of levels and levpacks, people just dont play them as much because we have played these 54 levels for 13 years, and just pasting some new levels and declare them "the new internals forever" is never going to work just because you say so. A good example: Its a little bit like changing the original first super mario 1 level, changing the official color of sonic the hedgehog to green or make Disney produce the next star wars movie, you just dont do that and expect the entire world to recognize. Yet again if you never dedicated to play the internals you wouldnt really understand what Im trying to get with this.

Even after saying all this, no matter how you alter the game mechanics, not everyone will like all the changes. Belma and EOL was perfect because it didnt remove anything, it just added things. In my opinion this project is a superb chance to add many many great things to the game that we have always wanted. But be really REALLY careful when considering something such as "removing" a thing that has a huge impact like FPS. No matter if Balazs original idea with Elma wasnt anything like this, or if vsync is "technically" a glitch. You may think this is simply fixing a flaw in the game, but its a tremendous change to the actual GAMEPLAY which is 100% of what elma is, cuz I really dont think anyone plays this game for the great storytelling.

Its not simply changing/fixing "elma" either. There's a huge distinction between internals and battles for example in terms of gameplay. Left alovolt would be a cool feature to have in battles, the biggest complain would be that we just need to get used to having an extra button to click, but fuck me does this add severe ramifications for playing internals? Millions of hours spent to perfect some styles, now there is suddenly a sea of undiscovered styles in probably every single level. The life-span of playing internals may increase another 10 years. Probably a bad example this, but seeing as no one else has mentioned any differences in battles/internals i thought i just might add this final thought. Someone else can probably conjure up some other differences as well.
Well said, I completely concur with the first three paragraphs. Although adding the left alovolt would have the same effect. It would change everything in Internals so much, that it would feel like completely new levels and some might stick to playing the older version instead.
The last paragraph was simply an example to demonstrate that there are big differences between internals and battles with a change such as left alo. Personally I dont want left alo either for the exact same reasons you said.
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Thundr- » 11 Dec 2012, 15:55

Just wait for someone to reply to my with an equally long wall of text + quote, please

pls

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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Smibu » 14 Dec 2012, 20:28

abruzzi wrote:Will it be online-oriented?
Depends on what that means :) but of course we'll aim for as good online integration as possible.
Zweq wrote:is that still using the reverse engineered original physics code or did you already 'separate' physics and rendering? and what kind of decisions have you made or will make about the physics updates per second?
Physics and rendering were separated at the beginning of the project. We haven't changed anything about the physics code itself, except some very simple refactorings so that it's easier to read. We have a "test" project to make sure we haven't made any mistakes in refactoring the physics code. Basically we just compare some generated replays with "reference" replays that were generated by original Elma.

Right now the only difference between original Elma and this Elma 2 is that the physics timestep is constant. We haven't really made any decisions yet about the timestep, although I have some opinion on it. So these are the options:

1. Make timestep constant, no changing allowed
2. Allow changing timestep from options but not during ride
3. Allow changing timestep during ride too (with some simple toggling between 2 values)
4. Make timestep FPS-dependent (same as in original Elma)
5. Allow user to choose from options whether timestep is FPS-dependent or some desired constant

The last one would be the most flexible option, but I'm not sure if it's necessary. Options 2 and 3 sound best to me. Option 1 is the worst because we lose the compatibility of earlier records (WRs etc).
Tigro wrote:pls implement folder-recognising in the level and reclay folder, to make sorting levs/recs easier
This is actually already done because levels are searched from subdirectories. We'll do it similarly for replays, too.

@J-sim: Yeah, those are good ideas.

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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Tigro » 14 Dec 2012, 20:52

another idea: pls include something like 1v1 flagtag mode. It will be nice imo to see duels in elma chases. When there are 324584316 people in flagtag balle, it just sucks.
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Madness » 14 Dec 2012, 21:36

Smibu wrote:2. Allow changing timestep from options but not during ride
Does this mean that it wouldn't be possible to change fps during a ride at all or just that there wouldn't be any toggle mechanism in-game? In the first case the compatibility would not be preserved either, in the second case it would be the same as the 5th option, if I understand correctly...
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Zweq » 14 Dec 2012, 23:48

1. Make timestep constant, no changing allowed
Personally I'm mostly into the theoretical limits nowadays and this option would be highly interesting for saveloading purposes and limits seeking. Coupled with bug bounce fix there would no longer be all sorts of randomness that kills the mood for seeking those limits. Also if there will be a fix for bug bounces you already have all old times kinda incompatible. Battles would also be 'standardized' for everyone.

I'm not sure what the timestep should in this case be then, perhaps an equivalent to current 500FPS. I guess this option will never be chosen anyway, but it's still worth a discussion.

2. Allow changing timestep from options but not during ride

I guess this will be chosen. It is not as interesting as the 1st option. You could always go back to current elma for tuning.

3. Allow changing timestep during ride too (with some simple toggling between 2 values)

I gave this a thought some months ago and the conclusion was: gay
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by BlaZtek » 20 Dec 2012, 07:21

EET FUK this is my opionions :lmao:

*I want 60 New Internals from MUE, If new elma, then dont want more of those old ints o,o
*I think Elma 2 will be cool.
*Better graphic is ok, but mind it twice if get new ground and sky types! Those who are in Orginal elma like the yellow , brick and ground is holy ground!!! And
*I think LeeLand is the one to make new shit like graphic, he is pro :)

This looks like a lot of work Smibu, but gogo! :) :beer:
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Pingywings » 20 Dec 2012, 07:52

a necessity: make flags in flagtag spyable!

& have greatest amount of apples collected in level similar to shift f5 best times. would be good for really long first finishes like cp080ff and other levs like wat2 so you could see how far people got

a dream: default LGR expanded? like in ekros.lgr
some really nice pictures in that, its a shame you never really get the chance to use them
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by anpdad » 20 Dec 2012, 08:53

Smibu wrote: 1. Make timestep constant, no changing allowed
2. Allow changing timestep from options but not during ride
3. Allow changing timestep during ride too (with some simple toggling between 2 values)
4. Make timestep FPS-dependent (same as in original Elma)
5. Allow user to choose from options whether timestep is FPS-dependent or some desired constant
Obviously 4 or 5, no ruining of backwards compatibility pls. 5 + 2 would be perfect for everyone i guess, but i like 5 + 3 more, at least theoretically, it will probably make hoyl more comfortable in many internals, and is not something one cannot do in original elma with a bit of work. Can screens run at any refresh rate (up to some upper bound) by the way, or are there restrictions? If there are none, then toggling between 2 values sounds as a plausible emulation/extension of vsync on / vsync off behavior, otherwise it's more on a TAS side of things, and i've now deleted the 2nd half of my post with reasoning because it was too unreadable.

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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Hosp » 20 Dec 2012, 18:11

Remove Battle Mode "Flagtag".
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Igge » 20 Dec 2012, 18:23

If you can have 1v1 flagtag then ez do elo ratings)
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Thundr- » 21 Dec 2012, 06:23

Here are some ridiculous funky ideas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg2-WpP8 ... Zg&index=2

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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by BlaZtek » 21 Dec 2012, 07:23

Object triggers is a cool idea that might would make cool levs!

That spesific appel(s) opens that spesific door(s) :o
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Tigro » 21 Dec 2012, 10:32

i was also thinking about option which allows you to rotate kuski by any angle at the start of the level, which means, with 90° angle you will be able to start sticket to vertical wall or so..
those things in thundr-s post video arent bad, but i find them only as good as drunk balle is.
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Zweq » 21 Dec 2012, 10:42

Tigro wrote:i was also thinking about option which allows you to rotate kuski by any angle at the start of the level, which means, with 90° angle you will be able to start sticket to vertical wall or so..
those things in thundr-s post video arent bad, but i find them only as good as drunk balle is.
ye i thought that too , should be able to define the starting position of both wheels and head also. Start with some weird stretch.
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by BlaZtek » 21 Dec 2012, 11:48

So many ideas by ppl, maybe game will be finished in 3 years xD EET FUK :lmao:
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by pawq » 2 Jan 2013, 00:44

Tigro wrote:(...) start sticket to vertical wall (...)
Hmm this gave me an idea - would it be possible, within elma or in any other edit0r, to actually stick a wheel, two or all to a surface? If you want to make a smooth start with no backspin it's kinda annoying to zoom in a lot to get the wheels exactly at the surface. Also properties for segments like 'horizontal', 'vertical', 'parallel to' and 'perpendicular to' would be pretty darn amazing for making geometrical levs, kinda like in 3d modelling. opinion, totem?

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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by totem » 5 Jan 2013, 00:24

[quote="Pawq"]would it be possible [...] to actually stick a wheel, two or all to a surface?[/quote]
you mean, all three wheels ?

maybe possible, but frankly this doesn't seem very useful compared to the 5 seconds you waste to do it manually

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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Tigro » 5 Jan 2013, 00:26

or would it be poss to make a gravity apple, which player wouldn´t be obliged to take? I mean, that he could finish the level without taking it. The point is, to have some gravity changer that you do not have to pick if you do not want to.
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Igge » 5 Jan 2013, 00:43

It's really hard to understand what you're trying to say, but let me see if i got this straight:
Pawq wrote:would it be possible, within elma or in any other edit0r, to actually stick a wheel, two or all to a surface?
Are you wondering if it's possible to stick one or both wheels to a surface? Or what do you mean by "two or all"?
Pawq wrote:If you want to make a smooth start with no backspin it's kinda annoying to zoom in a lot to get the wheels exactly at the surface.
You mean a start where you can just drive normally, horizontally, from the beginning and not have the front wheel lift? If so that's extremely easy and doesn't require any zooming whatsoever.
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Kopaka » 5 Jan 2013, 00:57

Some sort of general "stick to" feature might be useful, like 3d editors etc. have, so you can easily line up things perfectly, whether that is start or pictures or whatever.

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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Pingywings » 5 Jan 2013, 03:31

Hosp wrote:Remove Battle Mode "Flagtag".
no please
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by 8-ball » 5 Jan 2013, 13:13

Tigro wrote:or would it be poss to make a gravity apple, which player wouldn´t be obliged to take? I mean, that he could finish the level without taking it. The point is, to have some gravity changer that you do not have to pick if you do not want to.
Would be cool to have optional apples in green color or something that would change gravity or some other effect ;)
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by pawq » 6 Jan 2013, 02:19

Kopaka wrote:Some sort of general "stick to" feature might be useful, like 3d editors etc. have, so you can easily line up things perfectly, whether that is start or pictures or whatever.
that's what i meant, "or all" was bangoing obviously.

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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Lee » 7 Jan 2013, 10:44

Feature Requests:
  • Shortcut to zoom fill the level during gameplay. This way you can plan routes on large levels without viewing in editor. + Shortcut to zoom in and out during gameplay.
  • Shortcut to change between textures and single colour fills (like in the mini map). Can be used in combination with zoom fill to better see the map.
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Xiphias » 7 Jan 2013, 10:57

Lee wrote:Feature Requests:
  • Shortcut to zoom fill the level during gameplay. This way you can plan routes on large levels without viewing in editor. + Shortcut to zoom in and out during gameplay.
Zooming in-game is already possible. Check player options.
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by BlaZtek » 7 Jan 2013, 21:15

I just realised this elma 2 will split the scene... will there be no more eol after a possible e2 release?
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Haruhi » 8 Jan 2013, 03:59

afaik e2 will have online capabilities.
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Lee » 19 Jan 2013, 23:49

When I first heard news of Elma 2 I tried vectorising the biker in Illustrator.
This is the progress I made before I forgot about it. It was good practice.
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Tigro » 20 Jan 2013, 00:06

Oh, Leeland, this looks very nice! please finish this! :D
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Xiphias » 20 Jan 2013, 14:21

Tigro wrote:Oh, Leeland, this looks very nice! please finish this! :D
I second this! Very nice job.
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by ville_j » 20 Jan 2013, 15:15

I did this too, maybe a year ago, but also I did not finish it and I think it didn't look that good anyways. But very najs!
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by 8-ball » 20 Jan 2013, 15:37

That looks awesome. Please do finish.
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Lee » 25 Jan 2013, 10:35

zebra wrote:Another question is that Lee will make the graphics? There will be 32-bit graphics (I guess) in this new version. So Lee is good at making 2d graphics?
Chris wrote:I also think that standard LGR should be entirely drawn using SVG or something like that to make game more future proof (very high resolutions friendly).
zebra wrote:To get the game high-resolution-friendly, we need that Lee who could create some new graphics for the game.
Okay, I accept.
With retina displays soon to become mainstream, it will make the game look nice at extreme resolutions.
Just so everyone has a clear idea what SVG is (Scalable Vector Graphics), here is an example:

Image Image

Left = Current EOL wheel / Right = Wheel in SVG format (scales without losing quality)
Zoom in on your browser to see

btw this could make lgr creation a bitch for almost everyone =)
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by jonsykkel » 25 Jan 2013, 11:13

cool, nice work lee
but im prety sure theres no way that most comps especially laptops will be able to handle drawing these at a fast rate and certainly nat many of these bikes at once, unless you render them to a framebuffer or something first which kind of defeats the purpose. of cours one pasibility is to ad support for both vector and raster lgrs
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Lee » 25 Jan 2013, 12:22

I don't know enough about that. If it can't be done effectively then that's the way the cookie crumbles. PNG format is likely the best to work with.
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by ville_j » 25 Jan 2013, 15:49

Yesh I guess you would need to create buffer image from svg, but I don't think it completely makes svg useless. Ofc it doesn't work if you zoom for example during a ride, but it could render teh buffer image when changing reso/zoom and this way you could have some sick zoom and it would still look goad. Then ofc there could be a possibilty to export a rec into some 4k reso movie =) But ofc these features would have to be implemented first by somone.
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Zweq » 25 Jan 2013, 16:23

imo elma graphics too sharp already. make pixelated
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Haruhi » 27 Jan 2013, 05:48

Ville_J wrote:Yesh I guess you would need to create buffer image from svg, but I don't think it completely makes svg useless. Ofc it doesn't work if you zoom for example during a ride, but it could render teh buffer image when changing reso/zoom and this way you could have some sick zoom and it would still look goad. Then ofc there could be a possibilty to export a rec into some 4k reso movie =) But ofc these features would have to be implemented first by somone.
Buffer image probably best. When you select zoom it rerenders image from svg to still look uber quality. I'm presuming you can't zoom in ride ofc (which would be o,o anyway)
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Re: Do we want a new version of Elma?

Post by Xiphias » 27 Jan 2013, 20:43

Haruhi wrote:
Ville_J wrote:[...]
Buffer image probably best. When you select zoom it rerenders image from svg to still look uber quality. I'm presuming you can't zoom in ride ofc (which would be o,o anyway)
But you can zoom in in-game :)
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