EOL2 - updated 23.12.2017

Feature requests and ideas for the new unofficial versions of Elma and general talk related to those.

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Smibu » 10 Jan 2013, 10:09

Updated wiki. Added the flicker bug also although I still couldn't reproduce it.

For everyone: you can create an account in the wiki yourself and add any new bugs directly in the wiki page. It saves some work.
Xiphias wrote:Is it on purpose that the terminology has been changed in the options menu?
Not really, but they don't have to be exactly the same either.
Madness wrote:it sometimes crashes when I try to enter a level
Does the debug version crash randomly too? If so, what are the error messages?

Same for Orcc: Run the debug version and paste error messages here. The latest error message you posted is not from debug version and that's why it's not very detailed.

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Madness » 10 Jan 2013, 11:09

Smibu wrote:
Madness wrote:it sometimes crashes when I try to enter a level
Does the debug version crash randomly too? If so, what are the error messages?
It doesn't show any error messages, it just turns off.

Today again, no crashes at all ._.
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Lee
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Lee » 10 Jan 2013, 12:03

Maybe set a limit to how far you can zoom in/out. Currently it seems that I can zoom in/out forever.

Bug:
This one is pretty fun.
To reproduce it: Enter any level. Press and hold the 'Zoom Out' button. Whilst holding that button press and hold any other button on your keyboard (except the 'Zoom In' button). The view then rotates 180 and proceeds to zoom in.
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Exit the game and run it again. The view is still 180'd until you reverse it (by using the same method).
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I tried the same thing with holding the 'Zoom In' button, but all that happens is it zooms in slower than normal (no flipsy).
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Madness
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Madness » 10 Jan 2013, 13:01

Madness wrote:Today again, no crashes at all ._.
2 hours later...
Now it crashes about every second try.
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Bjenn » 10 Jan 2013, 13:07

Madness wrote:
Madness wrote:Today again, no crashes at all ._.
2 hours later...
Now it crashes about every second try.
Your computer probably starts some service or other shit that elma 2 makes a conflict with. Look in event viewer the time your problems started, and try figure out what your computer did at this moment. Check both system and program logs.

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Xiphias » 10 Jan 2013, 14:06

Lee wrote:Maybe set a limit to how far you can zoom in/out. Currently it seems that I can zoom in/out forever.

Bug:
This one is pretty fun.
To reproduce it: Enter any level. Press and hold the 'Zoom Out' button. Whilst holding that button press and hold any other button on your keyboard (except the 'Zoom In' button). The view then rotates 180 and proceeds to zoom in.

Exit the game and run it again. The view is still 180'd until you reverse it (by using the same method).

I tried the same thing with holding the 'Zoom In' button, but all that happens is it zooms in slower than normal (no flipsy).
Omg this is the best :D

There is another bug with holding the keys down and entering a level.
Hold down the alovolt key, right volt (or left volt) and brake (or throttle) keys before entering a level. Then when you have entered the level release the Right/left volt key and the Throttle/Brake, so you only hold down Alovolt. The bike will stop alovolting and start doing the left/right volt instead. With still holding the Alo key down and you enter other levels the bike is still doing normal Volts.

---
I recorded the bug Leeland found. http://youtu.be/F-HOn21dtk0
Sorry for the shit frame rate :P
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Madness » 11 Jan 2013, 17:20

I managed to record the window in the background when it turns off.

This is when I'm in the menu.
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This goes on after trying to enter a level.
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Ropelli » 11 Jan 2013, 17:38

Oh, it's just an exception that occurs probably while trying to save the options. I don't know why it's not handled properly, last time I wrote the code it handled exceptions aswell. If it happens in some other event, then it's certainly a bug.

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by klisse » 21 Jan 2013, 21:50

OMG nice, didn't know about this project. Do you have more information to share? What is planned to do, what is done and skipped? What about linux, osx, other OS's?

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Smibu » 21 Jan 2013, 22:17

@klisse: I added a link to the feature document in the wiki page. As for "what has been done so far", read this topic :) we try to list all the new features/bug fixes after each release.

The project is cross-platform, but so far we've only compiled binaries for Windows (should work on XP/Vista/7/8). Other supported platforms should be Linux and Mac OS X at least.

@Madness: That is hopefully fixed for next version now.

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Tigro » 29 Jan 2013, 21:28

Smibu was saying something about a velocity arrow showed in one-life battles at start (in level format thread). That reminded me of one suggestion here: Is it possible to make an arrow displayed on the top of the screen in flagtag battles, which will point to the kuski with a flag? (maybe showing distance to kuski as well..)
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Lee » 30 Jan 2013, 01:18

Or big arrow means farther away, small arrow means closer or just off the screen.
That way you wouldn't have to read anything to know the distance.
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Tigro » 30 Jan 2013, 22:24

yes, i was wondering something similar..
because it sucks when you have to zoom out before each FT balle, and to look closely to minimap to spot the green dot.
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Xiphias » 8 Feb 2013, 16:13

When new version for testing? Don't want to seem pushy/intolerant. I'm just wondering =)
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Smibu » 9 Feb 2013, 14:16

About arrows in flag tags: yes, good idea.

@Xiphias: When some more of the current bugs are fixed and some new features added. It's just useless to release a new version if there's not much new to test.

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Mats » 16 Mar 2013, 00:18

Think Rocket launcher is needed in flag tag, when someone is on a impsy place. After 1 min its enabled so you can shoot them down and get the flag
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by analcactus » 16 Mar 2013, 07:06

where's new version with boobs
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Thundr- » 23 Mar 2013, 10:47

Rocker launcher idea actually sounds interesting to some degree. Ok yes it fundamentally changes elma into something else, im just thining destructible polygons could be fun to try once, but no more.

Dont really want regular balles to be replaced with 10 different "death match" modes (Worms armageddon with motorcycles)

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Smibu » 29 Mar 2013, 08:01

IRC channel has been changed (again) because of lost ops. It's now #new_elma. The new channel has a re-opping mode in case everyone loses op, so it shouldn't be necessary to switch channel anymore.

So leave the old channels (#new-elma and #newelma) and join the new one.

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Pab » 20 Apr 2013, 04:09

Im totally lost in this elma2 thing, no idea what happend in 2012. Anyway wanted to leave an idea but dunno where.

After you die or finish a ride you get the Play again, Replay, Save rec, Best times options. Something i would use like crazy, at least in battles (if this has something to do with new eol version dunno) is a Merge option; to instantly merge my ride (probably a fail ride) with my actually saved pr ride. This would substitute saving every ride i want to quickly merge into a "trash" replay, going on merge and selecting both replays.

Probably a non generic option or important as the others, so it might be not useful every time, Im thinking more in eol and playing battles (in that case it does help imo). Of course you can add the option to hidde Merge option or show as elma does with Menu stuff.

Ok thats it, ty for reading.
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by pawq » 20 Apr 2013, 10:40

It would be great, indeed!

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 29.12.2012 (added debug version 30.12.)

Post by Xiphias » 20 Apr 2013, 12:11

Before I forget about it:

In original elma - When merging replays apples do not reappear if you rewind. Animation of the arms also does not replay after rewinding.
I think apples are more important than the arm animation.
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Smibu » 27 Apr 2013, 21:35

It has been about 4 months since the previous version. Many bugs have been fixed and some new features added, so it's time for a new version. Download here.

NOTE: You need to delete the options.dat file because the options format has been changed. It will crash otherwise. This is a bit annoying bug so it'll be fixed in the future of course.

List of fixed and unfixed bugs is here, so I won't repeat them in this post.

New features:
  • Arrow displays the direction of gravity in gravity apples.
  • Time is shown after ride (and whether it was finished or not).
  • Reset defaults -button for keys.
  • Toggle show/hide button for multiplayer mode (hides/shows the player's view).
  • Grass is shown.
All files are now in one zip to make things simple (elma2.exe, elma2_d.exe, datafiles folder, elma2_log.bat).

If elma2.exe isn't working for you, run elma2_log.bat. It will run elma2_d.exe and create a file called elma2log.txt where everything is logged, including possible exception messages.

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Mawane » 30 Apr 2013, 16:07

all these files crash when starting them
elma2.exe
elma2_d.exe
elma2_log.bat
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Xiphias » 1 May 2013, 13:12

Got it to work on my machine by following Smibu's instructions. Nice fixes you made. Not many new features though so not many changes to test but I will try to test a bit later this week.

Keep up the good job guys. :)

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Labs » 1 May 2013, 22:27

http://kopasite.net/up/165xt6v5eu8jhnq/shitma2.PNG
http://kopasite.net/up/pqk65b64z3qxxi2/elma2log.txt

This happens all time i start it, same in debug version, same in old versions.
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Xiphias » 2 May 2013, 01:13

I found two issues:

Bug 1: - Doubled gravity arrows when toggling map off
Steps to reproduce:
1. Elma -> Play -> Open Gravity Ride
2. Press O key to toggle map on/off

Map ON
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Map OFF
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Bug 2: - Possible to disable screen with Hide/Show feature both in Multi Player and in Single Player
Steps to reproduce:
1. Elma -> Play -> Start any level
2. Press "1" on the keyboard

In-game while playing
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When dead
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Smibu » 2 May 2013, 18:58

Mawane wrote:all these files crash when starting them
elma2.exe
elma2_d.exe
elma2_log.bat
This got resolved already (he forgot to delete options.dat).

Labs: very strange bug... hopefully we can reproduce that so it could be fixed.

Xiph: Bug 2 was kinda known, I agree that it doesn't make sense to hide the player if the other is already hidden. And bug 1 - nice find, I couldn't reproduce it yet. It might be some undefined behaviour.

About Pab's and Xiph's earlier suggestions: ye, those are good ideas.

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by analcactus » 27 May 2013, 10:39

i absolutely want the linux version asap
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Hosp » 8 Jun 2013, 22:58

I just thought of an idea I have not stumbled upon before on this forum, might've missed it but I'll give it a shot.

I was thinking if it would be possible, or even wise to do this.
If EOL2Chat would be linked with #across chat.
Would be nice since we could all talk together even if you're not playing and if nobody can't abort in-game maybe someone on #across sees it and aborts. idk probably impsy anyways bye

'anyway, instead of #across, it could simpy be #eolchat' -Markku
better idea than #across

Edit: hmm I came up with something else since this would maybe be too messy and hard.
What about a command in EOL like '!abortplz' '!stopplz' or such that sends a message to #across that you want current balle aborted. or just add a feature in elma2 that let's ballestarter abort his own levels o.o
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Igge » 9 Jun 2013, 05:15

Ye I suggested in belma days that there should be an irc channel in which a bot repeated all belma chat, and in EOL there should be a bot which repeated all chat from that channel (other than what the bots are saying). I guess that would serve pretty much the same purpose, but would be a somewhat uglier solution.
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Smibu » 14 Jun 2013, 19:10

analcactus wrote:i absolutely want the linux version asap
Good news is that Elma 2 really works on Linux :) Joey managed to compile Elma 2 for Arch Linux about two months ago: http://users.jyu.fi/~mikkalle/Elma/elma2_archlinux.png

We haven't released any Linux version yet because we don't have a proper build system.
Hosp wrote:What about a command in EOL like '!abortplz' '!stopplz' or such that sends a message to #across that you want current balle aborted.
Instead of spamming #across with such messages, I think the best way to handle level abortions (if moderators are absent) would be to let the players vote for/against aborting the current level. The questions would be - how many votes are needed to abort the level, how much do counter votes weigh, what is the deadline for aborting a level, etc... it would easily become quite complex.
Hosp wrote:or just add a feature in elma2 that let's ballestarter abort his own levels
At least he could be allowed to remove it from the queue if it's not yet started. Not sure about abortion.

Btw, when something is asked in the IRC channel, it would be nice to get answers (=feedback). I'll repeat my question:
23:30 <Smibu> is it just me or is there a very slight keypress delay in elma 2 compared to elma (when vsync off)?
23:32 <Smibu> pls test that

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by pawq » 16 Jun 2013, 17:44

There has been a voting system in belma, no? And to be honest I can't see why a designer couldn't abort his own lev :< After all mistakes happen.

Also, what about the lag after dying which has been fixed before by Smibu's patch, but brought back by mila? It was some bongo sorting right?

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by anpdad » 17 Jun 2013, 06:37

Can't really test anything since the latest build doesn't work for me, just puts out a black screen. Was lazy to fiddle with settings to see if i can fix that, will try today.

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Lousku » 17 Jun 2013, 10:19

idé: running chart in each battle where x is battletime, y is best time and theers a line for each batler. and maybe pasibility to save any rec and then could donga any by cliking points on teh chart. combined with realtime apple counts in standings of ff balles, might be very fun to analyze chart =D sry if too early to be talking about online things. also smibu when will you give us ponies?
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by analcactus » 19 Jun 2013, 21:55

if that's possible, i'd request you to send me the version compiled for linux :)
just i have a low amount of games here so elma would help
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Smibu » 28 Jul 2013, 21:05

Pawq wrote:There has been a voting system in belma, no? And to be honest I can't see why a designer couldn't abort his own lev :< After all mistakes happen.
Voting system in Belma? No, as far as I can remember.

About aborting own lev - maybe this could be a separate privilege that could be revoked if someone abuses it. So by default, it could be enabled.
Pawq wrote:Also, what about the lag after dying which has been fixed before by Smibu's patch, but brought back by mila? It was some bongo sorting right?
That was never a bug, but a feature in original Elma. Probably because Balazs thought that you might want to see how you died before the game went back to the menu.
anpdad wrote:Can't really test anything since the latest build doesn't work for me, just puts out a black screen. Was lazy to fiddle with settings to see if i can fix that, will try today.
Well, did you get it to work?
Lousku wrote:idé: running chart in each battle where x is battletime, y is best time and theers a line for each batler. and maybe pasibility to save any rec and then could donga any by cliking points on teh chart. combined with realtime apple counts in standings of ff balles, might be very fun to analyze chart =D sry if too early to be talking about online things.
Yea, not bad ideas at all. It's early, ye, but any ideas are still welcome.
Lousku wrote:also smibu when will you give us ponies?
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analcactus wrote:if that's possible, i'd request you to send me the version compiled for linux :)
Patience please :) there will be a Linux version eventually, although I can't say any exact dates.

Another thing: Realtime channel log for #new_elma is here. It has a basic search feature. Clicking a line after searching will show the surrounding lines so you get some context.

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Hosp » 30 Jul 2013, 05:51

Dunno if more suitable topic than this one but just wanted to tell which of the ideas I like (from here and possibly some comments on them, since for some reason I cannot upvote/downvote them o.o (says this: sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on)
Xarthok wrote:All-around improvements to the in-game level editor to match and improve upon current popular external editors such as ALE. Undo button, draw shapes, text, import images, copy, split, transform polygons, open several levels at the same time, etc.
This is a good idea but would be cool to have the normal one to choose from in-game too, sach used to teh and ye also if this I would like it to be same kind of style on the design of all those new buttons/options.
Lousku wrote:Levels without a flower.
Imo this is a must. It is possible to create levels with the same concept already, but this would be better, and when you have taken all the apples except the last one the last apple always turns in to a flower the instant you take the second last apple.
Xarthok wrote:Option to select any replay to use as a ghost bike.
I always missed this but in some way I feel like it would change the game too much. Not quite sure how I feel about this.
Pingywings wrote:have greatest amount of apples collected in level similar to shift f5 best times. would be good for really long first finishes like cp080ff and other levs like wat2 so you could see how far people got
This is a must imo.
Purvillo a.k.a. Leeland I guess wrote:Fully customizable biker shown to other players instead of just the shirt.
This sounds nice, but then would be nice with some easy built in thing in elma where you can create those pretty simply.
Xarthok wrote:Left alovolt as an option with either separate flagged record tables or only useable in brand new levels that explicitly allow it.
I think at least some kind of way to use left alo would be cool. like shift f6 or something for best times with left alo :P (some kind of mode has to be activation from menu when want to be able to use it)
Xarthok wrote:Possibility to make moving and otherwise interactive (scripted?) objects in levels, such as switches that open doors, button push puzzles, etc.
This idea was used in some elma video on youtube don't remember who it was but not active kuski I think. Could be interesting.

pingys hat comment also nice but the way I interpret it is that you can change just colours and such on helmet, maybe skin colour too if people want to be niggers or latinos (for pab)
other ideas seemed bit fun too but didn't orka comment on them and also many seems just too big change and much work.
Would be nice to be able to have a cup of tea in some lev with friends and not ride the bike all the time. :) (from Xarthoks idea: The possibility to leave your bike and continue on foot)

ok very long post bye
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Pingywings » 31 Jul 2013, 01:09

my hat comment was more of a cheap joke at TF2's hat "updates" :D i think the changing of helmet colour and skin ect would come with the fully customizable bike idea, which should definitely be used imo. its a pretty useless update i guess but come on everybody wants to vroom along in a sick custom bike 8D
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Lousku » 10 Aug 2013, 23:12

Polygon objects?
then again i don't know anything
maybe easier not to think abouut alöl things thought than not things thought ... or something..=?

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Hosp » 20 Sep 2013, 02:44

I think this would be a nice option for elma2: Ability to use Shift F5 to show Best Times in a lev, when watching a replay.
Maybe been suggested before dunno.
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Lee
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Lee » 4 Jan 2014, 06:27

Could we get a quick update on how Elma 2 is coming along? Something like "still making it" is a fine response.
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Smibu » 4 Jan 2014, 08:28

Elma 2 is still being worked on :)

Most of the changes lately have been refactoring (organizing code better), and most of this refactoring has happened in November/December (but there has been some activity every month since April, except October). So from the user's perspective, not much has changed and that's why there's no new version yet.

Another goal is to have a Linux version for the next release.

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by Lukazz » 4 Jan 2014, 14:06

linux version would be much appreciated.
TT: 36:59:53 || Avg TT: 38:09:65

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by analcactus » 4 Jan 2014, 14:55

and ondroed and ipone
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Zweq
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Re: Single-segment speedrun?

Post by Zweq » 15 Jan 2014, 19:43

i found this image on the internets, might be interesting... I also might be in danger for posting it, but imo mans deserve to know the truth
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Re: Single-segment speedrun?

Post by Thundr- » 15 Jan 2014, 20:24

Sounds like a lot of bullshit from the cock of my ass

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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by A.K.B. » 21 Jan 2014, 08:12

Sounds legitimate to me gentalmen.
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by ribot » 23 Jan 2014, 02:29

It would be interesting to know about how the bugs work. Most probably the bounce works, but how about other vsync wheel thru ground stuff?

Here are some ideas for features:
  • Any of 360 degrees direction gravity, with an arrow both in editor and visible on apple while playing
    Optional instant turn screen so that gravity will always be down on screen
    Optional instant turn bike
    Option to play with across bike physics
    Include level generators in game
    Allowing for thousands of vertices per polygon, in order to reproduce quantum physics bugs in the ground
    Availability for crossing polygons, and drawing lines in levels - I don't see why not
    Breaking with one wheel at a time
    Make svg into levels
    Follow flag owner in flagtag, see the flag during F1+enter
    Having more custom looks than just the shirt
    Make chat not autoscroll and not disappear when dying
    Don't crash game and lose data on internal errors, don't even exit game
    Allow more apples
    Show how many apples are in the level
    Delete levels from inside the game
    Autojump to current battle level
    Display bounce strength and add bounce strength battle type
    Bubbles coming out from the mouth of elma dude
    A story for each internal
    Optional lines indicating position of each remaining apple and flower
    Optional Elma player's nick[team] shown with letters next to the bike; as well as chat in a bubble, and a label with the player's current battle status, such as time, starter, leader, winning streak; bike speed, bounce force
    Counter of successful zweq spins, and other impsy tricks
    Indicator of skill level on internal times, such as whether the user's time is pro, world class, etc
    !lev !rec system
    ability to see all current level's recs from the level's menu, instead of separate rec menu, with rec mergin
    rec merging showed with rec file label, to easily see who is who
    seeing online info about level in the game, such as comments for example
    intelligible private chat system
    ghost bike from selected rec file
    helmets indicating GAA, administrator, chat banned :D
    copy-pastability in chat, to be able to copy and paste links

- ElmaWars http://zzz.ink/war - lauta
- Elma Title
- Elma 3D HD (RPG GAME, GAA nominee)
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Re: Elma 2 - updated 27.4.2013

Post by J-sim » 23 Jan 2014, 15:24

those are some really really good ideas. i agree with most of them. braking with seperate wheels i feel should be optional though.

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