ELMA ONLINE

Feature requests and ideas for the new unofficial versions of Elma and general talk related to those.

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onlainari
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Post by onlainari »

magicman yes..and it was awful...lagging alot...and we played just warm up about 3 times...it was hard to see where to go..we just managed to finish warm up multiplayer ..maybe those patches are better now,and I don't know if they work in elma...but they suck...better if it's internal online thing
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Post by Kloque »

yeah, I play unreal tournement withought lagging, with like 10 pplayers, and I have 37 k connection only. :/ So even elma multiplayer with 2 players should be so easy..
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Post by jcl »

Online FPSes are not so lag-sensitive, even 300ms latency is playable (at least in Counter-Strike), but imagine 300ms latency in online elma, it's not even watchable...
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Post by Hibernatus »

if you transfer the physics engine data, not only the positions and angles, you will get a "fluid" display, but still a very buggy behavior, because in elma if you release one button for a quarter of second you can get a big difference of movement, while in FPS games you are more predictable in short amounts of time.
a good looking online elma game is possible to make of course, but a patch would not allow some optimisations and other tricks. that's why i say the *patch* would have a crappy display. but, as long as you roughly see where the 2nd player is, and as long as your kuski is perfectly displayed, it's playable and fun. so it's still a very cool project. and i'm still interested in helping anybody who takes the project.
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Post by magicman »

YE com'on now when we have 1 that helps us with the online-version ;)
<-Hibernatus ok!


COM'ON ;)
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Post by milagros »

it looks somehow easier to do after the THING with big T, H, I, N and G came
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Post by Hibernatus »

the THING doesn't help, milagros... i already answered on the FORUM ;)
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Post by milagros »

maybe you will be suprised
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Post by Hibernatus »

Surprised by how bad a not-real-time display can be?
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Think about the elma online in another way... A Built in bat

Post by Toaster »

:idea: Think about elma online in another way...
A Built in battle mode:

:arrow: Set battletime, and press start battle....

:arrow: ...Auto send level to all the players...

:arrow: ...wait until all players press "Ready"...

:arrow: ...Start the Battle




:idea: Show best time (and the kuski having the time)

:idea: Show top 10

:idea: Show battle time left

:idea: Chat
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Post by Loz »

and it will need to check everyone has EXACTLY the same elma.exe to stop cheating
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Post by KD »

If 1.2 will go over beta testing i guess it will be the common version. It would be good if Balazs accept this, but i think it won't happen, so it will be still "unofficial". Dunno what's the reason i write it here, but i'm a n00b so don't kick me.
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Post by Loz »

thatz an Idea, add online to 1.2! :lol:
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Post by KD »

doing online code is not that easy, even if hib could do it, i think lag would ruin it, or at least make it not that good to play at all. I like watching my teammate's ride too when we are playing multi, and if he crashes his head (or it seems so coz lag) then it confuses me i think. But doing a battle server would be nice.
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Post by MagnusB »

Yes, let's call it battle.net. :D
Seriously though, I reallly like Toaster's idea.
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Post by milagros »

that will be my next goal in the future after finishing the anticheat0r
the main problem is the speed...in LAN it is possbile to make quite ok but through inet it would probably freeze for a few hundreds sometimes and that would cause problems
..so maybe in the faaaaar future
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Post by SveinR »

Loz, why would everyone need the same elma.exe? I don't think that's necessary.
Was it cast for the mass who burn and toil?
Or for the vultures who thirst for blood and oil?
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Post by MagnusB »

Maybe it isn't necessary, but there's no reason why everyone shouldn't have the same elma.exe, so you might as well do it.
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Post by SveinR »

What if someone is really against 1.12 for example?
Was it cast for the mass who burn and toil?
Or for the vultures who thirst for blood and oil?
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Post by Chris Penrose »

Some thoughts on #across,

<Dickybird> if there is ever an elma online, there should be a "shit" key. Like if you make a bad move, you press it and the word shit comes up on screen. Also should be a "hah, im beating you" key.
<Dickybird> just a thought
<MagnusB> you should be able to bind your own keys
<Dickybird> yea. that would be very cool
<darm> and slap ur opponent during run
<darm> with large trout ofcourse
<Dickybird> yes.
<Dickybird> we're just full of great ideas
Watch the birdy...
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Post by MagnusB »

SveinR wrote:What if someone is really against 1.12 for example?
I suppose the online capabilities would only be included in the 1.12/1.2 patch.
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Post by Loz »

everyone would need the same file that controls speed ect. ect. to stop cheating
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Post by Hibernatus »

Ok, i'm going to make the first step :)
I'll add the network capabilities in elma.exe thanks to wsock32.dll.
That's a very tiny part of the project, but i know it will motivate the programmers.
About the battle mode: Would be easy to make. An external program would make the server. Actually, if you don't like patching etc. you can make a very good 100% external solution. About the anticheating, just transfer the code sections of elma.exe to the server. But we shouldn't care about that, just wait for the anti-cheat patch.

About the online multiplayer mode: Well if i make the new import table for wsock32.dll, patchers don't have any excuse not to make it :)
It would look like a normal multiplayer game, but the 2nd player's display would have some lags. Not THAT bad :) I think the replays shouldn't make valid WRs, but we don't care, do we?
Mila, you said "maybe you *will* be suprised" about the THING. Are you planning to try it? You must remember the FPS of the 2 players cannot be the same. A time shifting between the two players would suck (and flag tag is then impossible).
Anyway, i hope you'll make it the other way :) That would rule.
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Post by milagros »

lack of time is the biggest opponent
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Post by Hibernatus »

Indeed. There's much work, mainly for the reverse engineering.

http://membres.lycos.fr/realathlon/pv/elma12/ Net12.exe
Program in 59000-5CFFF (RVA: 95000-98FFF)
Put your static variables in 5D000-60FFF (RVA: 99000-9CFFF)

wsock32.dll functions (god bless emacs :) ):

accept, bind, closesocket, connect, gethostbyaddr, gethostbyname, gethostname, getpeername, getsockname, htonl, htons, inet, addr, inet, ntoa, ioctlsocket, listen, ntohl, ntohs, recv, recvfrom, select, send, sendto, setsockopt, shutdown, socket, WSAAsyncGetHostByAddr, WSAAsyncGetHostByName, WSAAsyncGetServByName, WSAAsyncGetServByPort, WSAAsyncSelect, WSACancelAsyncRequest, WSACleanup, WSAGetLastError, WSAStartup,

in alpha order, call d,[00491180] to call d,[00491204] (step = 4, obviously).

-> no excuse! ;)

If you want to program in C++ instead of asm, make a dll. Now you can easily modify the import table, i've left some room after each structure.
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Post by Hibernatus »

I have finally decided to make the online multiplayer patch myself.
I announce it here in case some programmers would decide to do it too.
I have already tried a first version with onla. The lag was huge but that's because it lacked many of the features i've planned for it.
It will take a long time and i'm sometimes very busy, so don't expect something too quickly. I might even give up. But of course in that case, any programmer will be able to make the missing functions. So it should be made anyway, soon or later.
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Post by Kopaka »

what about the 1.2 patch, when will the final version be ready ?
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Post by Hibernatus »

Well, if nobody finds bugs, it's finished.
All i have to do is to release it. It's ready on my HD.
It's the same as the beta patch + no need for configuring right/left volts for the alovolt + a nice intro pic.
When should i decide the beta testing is finished?
Are you people playing it intensively?
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Post by RedRob »

Yes we are! :D No bugs so far... only maybe the auto save reminder...
sometimes it automaticly starts replaying or it restarts a level before you get a chance to save your replay (although this mostly happens(always?) when you die)

(sorry for posting in wrong topic, but I gotta run of to be in time for a meeting)
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Post by Juish »

ok hib

i was just talking on #across for a while about this

and everyone wants to see this online patch as soon as possible

so i think u should release is as soon as possible

we are all counting on u

:*
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Post by Hibernatus »

Bartek, if you had seen the last test, you would know that it doesn't suck at all. And you should know that an online version would work perfectly on a LAN (what you're asking for).
About flag tag, it may be possible to make the wheels bounce, but only on the local version, and it would require much work.
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Post by soup_can »

why not release the LAN version now? :D That would be good :D
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Post by onlainari »

hibernatus where are you......time is running...damn
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Post by Ragnar »

I already only use Elma 1.2, I think it is overdue for a release!
It would be good to release it as soon as possible.

And ElMa online is great idea!
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Post by magicman »

OMG, u will ruin my life... i love battles... and now omg :)
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Post by naoman »

just wanted to remind everyone that i want the ELMA ONLINE!!!
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Post by Jonas »

You want ELMA online....and I want that blonde chick....she is just to fine ;)
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Post by 2fast »

And I want both of them
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Post by Matsmato »

i'm waiting on a surprise hib.... :wink:
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Post by Captain_Goggles »

Hibernatus wrote:Well, if nobody finds bugs, it's finished.
All i have to do is to release it. It's ready on my HD.
It's the same as the beta patch + no need for configuring right/left volts for the alovolt + a nice intro pic.
When should i decide the beta testing is finished?
Are you people playing it intensively?
ok...its been almost a year and you still havent released even the beta for elma online :P i've been waiting patiently for a while now. can you please upload it atleast, or give me a link to it if you have already uploaded it? thanks.
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Post by J-sim »

Captain_Goggles wrote:
Hibernatus wrote:Well, if nobody finds bugs, it's finished.
All i have to do is to release it. It's ready on my HD.
It's the same as the beta patch + no need for configuring right/left volts for the alovolt + a nice intro pic.
When should i decide the beta testing is finished?
Are you people playing it intensively?
ok...its been almost a year and you still havent released even the beta for elma online :P i've been waiting patiently for a while now. can you please upload it atleast, or give me a link to it if you have already uploaded it? thanks.
He's talking about elma1.2 there which is already out in both the beta version and the final version. Still would be nice with this online/lan patch though! milagros haven't you been working on it too?!
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Post by Memphis »

i could help out too. All i need to know is what program u guys using to read .dat files?
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Post by milagros »

i;ve been working on it too some months ago but don't have time now at all
.dat is not important here btw. (state.dat format is very ez, if you can't read it, hmmm, not high probability to help here)
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Post by Captain_Goggles »

J-sim wrote:
Captain_Goggles wrote:
Hibernatus wrote:Well, if nobody finds bugs, it's finished.
All i have to do is to release it. It's ready on my HD.
It's the same as the beta patch + no need for configuring right/left volts for the alovolt + a nice intro pic.
When should i decide the beta testing is finished?
Are you people playing it intensively?
ok...its been almost a year and you still havent released even the beta for elma online :P i've been waiting patiently for a while now. can you please upload it atleast, or give me a link to it if you have already uploaded it? thanks.
He's talking about elma1.2 there which is already out in both the beta version and the final version. Still would be nice with this online/lan patch though! milagros haven't you been working on it too?!
but Hibernatus said, "I have finally decided to make the online multiplayer patch myself." over a year ago. It shouldnt take a year to make it.
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Post by SveinR »

Captain_Goggles wrote: but Hibernatus said, "I have finally decided to make the online multiplayer patch myself." over a year ago. It shouldnt take a year to make it.
Hib hasn't been in the scene for over a year.
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Post by Undiente »

thats the solution to the lag problem in trackmania:
1) If you have a bad internet connection, you cant see the other ppls positions, but you send and receive the times(so you only connect to send and receive times)
2) If you have better connection but anyway not the best, you send and receive the times normally, but you can see sometimes the other ppl positions
3) If you have a perfect connection, you receive and send positions and times
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Post by ELMA PRO »

i want an elma online
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Post by Crypt »

Now im thinking about Elma Online :p, that would be so sweet!
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Post by Juski »

Then tell us!
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Post by Rez »

yes pleeease :wink:
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