Target List v1.3 BETA

Lukazz · Post by **Lukazz** » 1 Nov 2007, 13:02

hm i think hill 15.20 is too easy, with the new style it's almost impossible to get over 15.00 when finished without any big mistakes!

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 1 Nov 2007, 15:02

Hx wrote:
Xiphias wrote: Don't know who did this program

Here: http://www.mxb.dk/upload/STATS%20Target ... 0Final.EXE
does anybody have a working link for this program?

http://up.k10x.net/pgscolyfnucns/STATS% ... 0Final.EXE there you go

Hx · Post by Hx » 1 Nov 2007, 19:24

rhanks

ill test it tomor whrn i sober up

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 23 May 2008, 19:45

I think it's time for an update on the target list. It's been over 2 years since last update.

Times I suggest at least get update are:
Steppes
Hill Legend
Ramp Frenzy
Animal Farm
Apple Harvest

Anyone agrees with me? Or people just want to keep the 1.3 target list so you don't lose your World Class/Pro times

and zworqy gets his Beginner times back

Well, discuss =)

Mushroom · Post by **Mushroom** » 23 May 2008, 19:56

hill is okay up to good.. You can change pro and wc if you like ..

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » 23 May 2008, 21:31

tunel terror should be changed too imo

John · Post by **John** » 24 May 2008, 00:19

Yes update... put the job on zweq, he can set good targets

Lukazz · Post by **Lukazz** » 24 May 2008, 00:32

Xiphias wrote:I think it's time for an update on the target list. It's been over 2 years since last update.

Times I suggest at least get update are:
Steppes
Hill Legend
Ramp Frenzy
Animal Farm
Apple Harvest

Anyone agrees with me? Or people just want to keep the 1.3 target list so you don't lose your World Class/Pro times
and zworqy gets his Beginner times back

Well, discuss =)

Yes, i agress, but Animal Farm shouldn't be changed imho, still too little ppl who've done new style
Steppes WC target should be 11.30 or so
hill legend 14.80 maybe
ramp frenzy 49.50? dunno
Apple Harvest 1.22 or such

OtorK · Post by **OtorK** » 24 May 2008, 06:55

why change apple harvest (and maybe ramp)? i dont see reason for changing targets in level, where only two people were available to handle better style

Lukazz · Post by **Lukazz** » 24 May 2008, 07:38

OtorK:
Ramp Frenzy Brutal made by:
Me, Kowal, Bjorn, talli, Zweq, Kazan;

OtorK · Post by **OtorK** » 25 May 2008, 14:32

i wrote especially about ah

Lukazz · Post by **Lukazz** » 25 May 2008, 18:38

OtorK wrote:i wrote especially about ah

hm well, i think more ppl would hoyl it after the target change!
i think it was quite similar with hill legend, only 4-5 people did 15.xx, then target changed and about 10-15 ppl did it!

Bismuth · Post by **Bismuth** » 9 Feb 2009, 04:06

I would suggest revising some beginner times.

First of all, in my opinion, it's harder to get New Wave Beginner target (1:48) than to get under 20 in Hooked. I would probably suggest 1:35 for Good, 1:42,50 for OK or something like that and 2:00 for Beginner, because I can't even drive it under 1:50 and still, I get 39,low in bumpy journey and 18,high in hooked. Go figure.

Warm Up: 16,00, 14,70 for OK
Twin Peaks: 27,00
Over and Under: 37,00
Uphill battle: 28,00
Tunnel Terror: 1:20
The Steppes: 40,00. Imo it's harder to get under 38 the long way than doing the easiest shortcut (for 25-26)
Hill Legend: 24,00
Loop-de-Loop: 23,00 and 20,50 for OK
Upside Down: 1:30 is way enough
Ramp Frenzy: 1:30
Pipe: 40,00
Labyrinth Pro: 4:30, 3:35 for OK
Fruit in the Den: 1:30
Jaws: 1:40
Enduro: 1:15
He He: 1:20
Downhill: 1:40 (still can't believe New Wave has a faster beginner target than Downhill!)
Expert System: 1:30
Tricks Abound: 1:35
Apple Harvest: 3:40, more than 3-run = extreme nab.

I know it doesn't make an enormous difference for pros, but nabs like me would appreciate, even if for many of them, it doesn't affect me anymore. I just think there was a major mistake in evaluating nabness.

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 9 Feb 2009, 09:53

Very. I was more the guy who did all the long levels better and still had a hooked above 20 when I went under 48 or someteh.

pawq · Post by **pawq** » 9 Feb 2009, 11:57

levs played the most by a player are from his patience and particular skills, one will play long levels, another hoyla will play the short ones, like jarkko. But in fact, few targets are crappy, believe me.

Dyrox · Post by **Dyrox** » 19 Feb 2009, 11:05

Wondering if anybody played bplev194...
Would be nice to have a rec on that level.

Lukazz · Post by **Lukazz** » 19 Feb 2009, 18:06

Dyrox wrote:Wondering if anybody played bplev194...
Would be nice to have a rec on that level.

wrong thread?

Mawane · Post by **Mawane** » 19 Feb 2009, 23:04

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 20 Feb 2009, 00:19

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 20 Feb 2009, 09:00

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 18 Oct 2011, 23:46

14.06
15.20
17.70
29.90
20.05
30.90
30.50
20.90
56.50
11.00

23.50
21.00
14.20
17.80
52.50
1:24.50
54.20
44.70
36.90
59.50

14.45
39.00
36.20
43.00
24.40
22.22
34.50
50.90
43.50
33.15

1:15.00
42.80
58.00
36.90
2:16.00
58.20
54.00
29.65
39.50
1:22.50

38.60
48.00
56.90
11.60
32.65
55.00
19.50
47.00
38.70
53.00

43.00
24.80
17.31
1:18.00

Some new targets (yet to be named) based on world top10. Some levs the target time is better than top4, like enduro simply because nobody has really höyled that lev for 5 years. Just tried to reach some kind of difficulty balance. Nothing too serious, just spent 15mins on this

Thundr- · Post by **Thundr-** » 19 Oct 2011, 01:50

looks decent enough

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 19 Oct 2011, 13:32

need a couple of internalists to take a look at it and write lists of 10 easiest and 10 hardest in their opinion

Jarkko · Post by **Jarkko** » 19 Oct 2011, 16:28

I got few suggestions on some levels.

01: 14.05. Thats the time every real pro should be able to do with the basic style, and then even better with other styles.

03: 17.69. Just because 17.6x or better is elite club in this level and you clearly need the "new style" for it.

04: 29.69. That you can't do it with basic style.

05: 19.99. Of course. You need under 20 to be in the elite club.

07: 28.99. You need WR style for this. Might be hard but so what.

08: 20.79. Under 20.80 in this feels like a solid run. And this is quite unhöyled level at least behind WR time.

14: 17.79. At least. Or could be also 17.75. You need a quite decent run, but not yet so max.

21: 14.49. Maybe .45 is too much if compared to some other levels. This was just so höyled recently by many players.

31: 1:13.99. WR style required. Or maybe even 1:12.99.

52: 24.75. So unhöyled level. Could be even 24.69

53: 17.19. Another unhöyled level expect for few top players.

In general. Don't look at the top 10 times. Some levels are just not equally höyled. This "elite" target should be time where you need WR style or best known style, but not necerrary so höyled or max run. Or maybe second best style and absolutely max run.

And all targets must be under something, not even number. So usually it's .x9, in some cases .x5 is fine too. It's much better that way.

Uncle Milty · Post by **Uncle Milty** » 19 Oct 2011, 16:54

by that logic apply 50.xx to serp??

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 19 Oct 2011, 17:49

thanks Jarkko. I agree target should be a second break when possible. I don't know how hard the targets should be, that's entirely up to the public. You want them harder, good, I'll keep that in mind. However in your targets hi flyer and hangman are not balanced. After all there exist like 6 runs under 29 in hi flyer, but thousands of under 14.50 in hangman

Thundr- · Post by **Thundr-** » 20 Oct 2011, 15:03

28. 50.90 - wr is some 2.5 sec better with obviously different style and at least half a sec better pos with common style/route. Maybe 50.00 or 49.99 is better target for this since its not doable, or at least max hard, with common style?

Uncle Milty · Post by **Uncle Milty** » 21 Oct 2011, 07:58

Dudes! Participate plz!
Zweq asked for a couple of internalists to write a List of 10 hardest / 10 easiest in their oppinion.
I would, but i dont think i have enough experience in all levels to decide, whether they are hard or not.

For me i guess some targets are very over the top, e.g. 25, 38, 51 while others are comparedly far from wr like 09, 43, 53.
in other words: some must be done by super super pros, others can be "lucked" by semi pros with a lil hoyling.
Like jarkko said for hooked: target 17.31 might reflect the top ten, but even i did 17.39 within 2 days of hoyling. It's not the target, true, but with a lil more hoyling, i could beat it, but i shouldnt be able to beat any target (besides serp maybe).

anpdad · Post by **anpdad** » 21 Oct 2011, 09:30

I would, but i dont think i have enough experience in all levels to decide, whether they are hard or not.

this. 56:50 in int09 is ridiculously easy though.

Grace · Post by **Grace** » 21 Oct 2011, 09:43

27: 34.50 can be beaten with nonWR style just with good run. Most of pros could beat this time imo. Perhaps 34.00 would be more appropriate or 34.25 (Better than Kaz' old WR)

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 21 Oct 2011, 09:52

Thanks for the feedback

Thundr: I think 49.99 for bounce back would be quite unreal target for now. I could write different versions of "elite target" (different difficulty balance), where bounce back is u50
Anpdad: Yeah long levs look very easy for skilled people like you

and höyl levs extremely hard. For nabs it's vice versa, long lev targets look impsy, while höyl levs look at least theoretically possible.
Haruhi: True, shelf life is one of those levs im "blind" in. I need help especially with determining the target for 12, 21, 27, 30, 42, 52, 53 and maybe a couple more

Grace · Post by **Grace** » 21 Oct 2011, 10:26

Some thoughts:

04: Can be done by good run with old style so i presume maybe some 29.80 or even better would be more appropriate
05: 19.99 of course. Can be done by most pros with a lot of hoyling.
21: 14.45 is probably a bit better. There's so much difference between .45 and .50 in this lev.
29: I think with the new WR style that came out this could be moved to 43.00. John is like 5th in this lev now

30: 33.00 seems like logical target. Maybe hoyling for it could prompt some more movement in the top10 here and we could get a few more sub33s
43: 56.50 Would prompt more people to hoyl this lev. Relatively unhoyled atm.

Madness · Post by **Madness** » 21 Oct 2011, 11:07

All targets are pointless, it will never be estimated correctly and will always be out-dated... You're wasting your time here. Following World Top10/20/50/100/etc times for getting appropriate targets is sufficient enough. Also I wonder who, besides a few people with 35-36 tt, will be arsed to try to achieve these impsy targets you are suggesting.

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 21 Oct 2011, 11:48

everything is useless and the precious time "wasted" here is currently at 20 mins

Thundr- · Post by **Thundr-** » 21 Oct 2011, 13:17

Madness wrote:All targets are pointless

The old targets are implemented in various websites, and people refer/care about them all the time despite knowing that they are outdated as shit. Hence targets are far from useless when people are using them as landmarks and motivational fuel (perhaps not the megapros since they are usually far above wc on all levels).

Though admittedly these new targets will be mostly only achievable for a rare few and no one will probably ever get all these targets, and the common nabs will only have a rare few, if any at all, times in this newer category of targets.

Bjenn · Post by **Bjenn** » 21 Oct 2011, 13:39

Haruhi spoke, ez 19.99 upphill. Ez 14.45 int21

culinko · Post by **culinko** » 21 Oct 2011, 15:25

anpdad wrote:
I would, but i dont think i have enough experience in all levels to decide, whether they are hard or not.
this. 56:50 in int09 is ridiculously easy though.

but only few ppl know the wr style:)

Grace · Post by **Grace** » 21 Oct 2011, 15:58

Björn wrote:Haruhi spoke, ez 19.99 upphill. Ez 14.45 int21

"Elite" targets. Is there a problem with these times? Feel free to post your thoughts as i have posted mine.

I notice that you have neither of those times. Perhaps you should focus on improving them rather than complaining about what other people think.

There are indeed more people that have sub 20.00 in Uphill and 14.45 or better in int21 than - say - better than 56.50 in Tunnel Terror as anp suggested. I do wonder how much thought you put into your misguided attempt to demean my post, as you seem to have foolishly strayed into the "youtube comments" styled area of social interaction.

Jarkko · Post by **Jarkko** » 21 Oct 2011, 16:00

Alright, 14.45 hangman is good. But what about for example Flat Track? There is only two guys really höyled it and with the same percentual difference than hangman it would be 14.96. So is 14.99 fine in this?

But or course you can't compare it straight like that.

On that same logic some short and höylish levels would be like this:

01: 14.07
03: 17.59
05: 19.90
08: 20.70
10: 10.85
12: 20.76
13: 13.95
14: 17.70
25: 24.37
26: 21.96
30: 32.98
32: 42.59
34: 36.57
41: 38.35
44: 11.52
45: 32.63
47: 19.26
52: 24.64
53: 17.18

Still, I see it very plausible that someday top10 times in those levels would be something like that, if people just would höyl internals more.

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 21 Oct 2011, 16:18

it's not about some relative difference to wr. In relative difference 14.05 in wu would mean some 2.12.high in lab pro. 14.49 in hangman is about the same hard to get as some 15.19 in flat track, but yeah hangman time might not be balanced with the other höyl levs

Thundr- · Post by **Thundr-** » 21 Oct 2011, 18:05

49: 38.70 - Style and wr is max old and even i have 38.87 which is from some 2007. Also from what i can gather top 20 hasnt changed that much over the last 5 years, the average time/year seem to be around 2007-2008 so i guess pretty unhoyled level?

Bludek · Post by **Bludek** » 21 Oct 2011, 22:08

Jarkko wrote:...percentual difference...

Yea, that's bullshit to compare them like that. You have to put a little bit more thoughts into making those targets. Not just math. There are completely different (and also differently hard) styles in those levels. And (as Zweq wrote) wr is not the thing that matters. Top10 (or top20 or smth) is much more accurate here, coz not every wr is shared (ppl could never make wr-like time if they don't know actual style).

But its not correct that only 2 guys hoyled int02. Many did, but not many had skills/luck or most importantly style to make u15 times. "Elite" targets should be very hard, but reachable.

madik wrote:All targets are pointless...

No, they are not. I like them. Many do. You yourself hoyled internals to reach World class targets. And different ppl care about different targets. "Elite" target is good idea.

Jarkko · Post by **Jarkko** » 22 Oct 2011, 00:24

Bludek wrote: Yea, that's bullshit to compare them like that. You have to put a little bit more thoughts into making those targets. Not just math.

Yes, of course. Like I said, thats not the way to do it. Just calculated some times for fun.

Bludek wrote: But its not correct that only 2 guys hoyled int02. Many did, but not many had skills/luck or most importantly style to make u15 times. "Elite" targets should be very hard, but reachable.

Isn't the WR rec shared? What is keeping other to hoyl under 15. But I really don't know anything from this level so that might be very hard.

My last contribution to this matter. Just the levels I know good enough.

01: 14.05
03: 17.67
05: 19.99
08: 20.79
14: 17.75
45: 32.63
52: 24.75
53: 17.19

culinko · Post by **culinko** » 22 Oct 2011, 12:08

Jarkko wrote:Isn't the WR rec shared? What is keeping other to hoyl under 15. But I really don't know anything from this level so that might be very hard.

there is a "miniwheelpop" bug in the start in the WR rec.

Madness · Post by **Madness** » 22 Oct 2011, 14:04

That miniwheelpop doesn't affect it at all. People just haven't tried out this brakeless style yet.

Bjenn · Post by **Bjenn** » 25 Oct 2011, 07:30

I think this: Culino is right, Madness is wrong. But it's not a bug.
Oh and pretty neat post harihi, I didn't realize this was elite times (I thought it was pro times). Maybe make a new topic instead of "Target List v1.3 BETA" or change it to something like ELITE IMPSY WORLD RECORD TIMES

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 25 Oct 2011, 08:57

nabs. The mini wheel-pops matter a fuckload and is definitely a software bug, or do you think balazs intended there to occasionally be a weird wheelpop when using extremely low fps.

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 25 Oct 2011, 10:31

While I agree with you, one still has to consider such things as the animal farm rooster trick, which is also a bug, that matters way more than a wheel pop.

Zweq · Post by **Zweq** » 25 Oct 2011, 11:32

Don't underestimate the mighty mini wheel-pop, you can do it in really many places. At least theoretically speaking it can cut several seconds from the total time

Igge · Post by **Igge** » 25 Oct 2011, 11:40

Well, of course they could affect a time significantly if you are extremely lucky, but do small pops really matter? I honestly have no idea if they alter your speed or something like that. But clearly pops could theoretically be used for some extreme styles, like popping a wheel in the end of new wave or over and under to grab the flower quicker, or enduro to pick the last apple without having to slow down. But if we don't count actually touching objects or touching other polygons for some pushes or so - do they actually have any impact on the game itself, rather than just looking weird?