Yet another "Leveling system"

RiNSpy · Post by **RiNSpy** » 21 Jun 2006, 13:51

Hi everyone,

I have invented a new "Leveling" system, and it actually seems quite good to me, so I would like you to check it out and tell me if it is any good.

First of all, let me try to explain why I decided to create the system and what's wrong in my opinion with the "Total Time" rating system.

1. Introduction

Imagine a situation. For example, we have 2 new Elma players, with Total Times approximately equal to 80 minutes. They both have 17 seconds on "Warm up" and 7 minutes on "Apple Harvest". Say, the first player starts to hoyl "Warm Up", and, eventually, gets 15 seconds on it, and the other player hoyls "Apple Harvest", and completes it in 6 minutes. As a result, the first player improves his TT by only 2 seconds, and the other one improves it by 1 minutes, though they both made the same effort and have roughly the same skills. Is it fair? Don't think so.

2. Solution

There is a way to "justify" the Total Time though, and make efforts (and skills) on different levels of the same value. How? By introducing "points", or "relative time".
For example, the World Record on "Warm Up" is 00:14:05, which is 1405ms. In the beginning both players had 17 secs on this track, which is 1700ms. Thus, the number of points they had for this track is equal 1405/1700*100 = 82.65. If we calculate their points for "Apple Harvest", they would be equal 8690 / 42000 *100 = 20.69 points. So, both players had a sum of 103.34 points out of 200 possible. After the first player hoyled "Warm Up", and the second player hoyled "Apple Harvest", their points are as follows:
1st player: 20.69 + 1405/1500*100 = 114.36 points out of 200 possible
2nd player: 82.65 + 8690 / 36000 * 100 = 82.65 + 24.14 = 106.79 points out of 200 possible.
Thus, we see, that the skills of the first player are higher than the skills of the 2nd player.

We can now also calculate the "Relative Total Time" or "JNR Total Time", by solving the following proportion:

200 points (world record) - 10095 ms
114.36 points - x ms

x = 200 / 114.36 * 10095 = 17655 ms (JNR) = 2:56:55 (JNR)

200 points (world record) - 10095 ms
106.79 points - y ms

y = 200 / 106.79 * 10095 = 18906 ms (JNR) = 3:09:06 (JNR)

By comparing the JNR Total Times we can judge how much better the first player is compared to the second player.

But, to avoid confusion with the "real" TT, I suggest introducing player's "Level":

200 points (world record) - Level 100 (WR)
114.36 points - Level X

X = 114.36 / 200 * 100 = 57 Level

200 points (world record) - Level 100 (WR)
106.79 points - Level Y

Y = 106.79 / 200 * 100 = 53 Level

Thus, the level of the first player is 57, and the level of the second player is 53, which shows that the first player is more skilled than the second ( while the ordinary Total Time would show the opposite).

3. Conclusion

In this essay I tried to show you the flaws in the ordinary TT system, and suggested a new rating system that eliminates the flaws. Also, as the new "Levels" are pretty difficult to calculate, I'm attaching a small tool that would allow you to calculate your rating. If the Rating system would be successfull with the community, I would be glad to develop the tool.

--------------------------------
To use the tool, copy the ElmaLevels.exe and wr.txt into the default ElastoMania directory (stats.txt should be in the same directory) and run it.

You can download it here: http://s5.quicksharing.com/v/5353809/El ... s.zip.html

Thank you for your time,

Cheers,

RiNSpy

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 21 Jun 2006, 14:01

well i've gotta get used to this... don't really under stand teh..
btw.. what does JNR stand for?

zelter · Post by **zelter** » 21 Jun 2006, 14:10

:\ .... in general ... nice idea ...
but I don't think it will be successful! TT doesn't mean a lot about skillz... if you want good TT you have to hoyl every lev... and I guess it is more work for a new players to cut of 1 min of AH than 2 seconds of WU...

all in all to complicated system! most players know what time in what lev is how good

RiNSpy · Post by **RiNSpy** » 21 Jun 2006, 14:25

Xiphias wrote:well i've gotta get used to this... don't really under stand teh..
btw.. what does JNR stand for?

Heh, well, basically, it's not the time you get on the level that counts, but the ratio of your time compared to the World Record.

JNR stands for either Junior (as the system is more useful to compare skills of junior players than to those of proffessional players) or "Justified New RiNSpy's"

RiNSpy · Post by **RiNSpy** » 21 Jun 2006, 14:35

zelter wrote::\ .... in general ... nice idea ...

Thank you

zelter wrote:but I don't think it will be successful!
TT doesn't mean a lot about skillz... if you want good TT you have to hoyl every lev... and I guess it is more work for a new players to cut of 1 min of AH than 2 seconds of WU...

It is supposed to be popular with new players like myself, adding stimulus to hoyl whatever level you like and seeing your rating or JNR TT improve significantly as you improve your time.. As seeing your TT improve only, say, 5 seconds after spending a lot of effort on a short track doesn't add much enthusiasm :/

zelter wrote:all in all to complicated system! most players know what time in what lev is how good

Don't be scared about all the technical details I described above, you don't need to understand it all to use it

Still, I agree, the system is quite complicated.

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 21 Jun 2006, 14:48

Gave it a try.. Don't know if this is any good

JNR Time: 42:24:94
Level: 86 (86.254177)

seems like you put some effort in this.
don't really understand it. but it's nice

H8 · Post by H8 » 21 Jun 2006, 15:38

JNR time: 41,23,94
level: 88 (88,372224)

Nice system

, better leveling system than the old one, though i think the JNR TT is unnecessary.

J-sim · Post by **J-sim** » 21 Jun 2006, 15:39

ehm good players try to go for perhaps a top 10 time in the world. then they know they have a good time in a level. guys like you can just go for a top 100 time. what's the big deal?

8-ball · Post by **8-ball** » 21 Jun 2006, 15:42

Level 91.

J-sim · Post by **J-sim** » 21 Jun 2006, 15:47

i gave it a try anyways:
Number of points: 5027
Total Time: 39:31:27
JNR Time: 39:17:96
Level: 93

RiNSpy · Post by **RiNSpy** » 21 Jun 2006, 15:51

J-sim wrote:ehm good players try to go for perhaps a top 10 time in the world. then they know they have a good time in a level. guys like you can just go for a top 100 time. what's the big deal?

Well that's the point, if I get a top 100 time in one level I would want a rating system to tell me "Hey, you've improved your skills THAT much!", no matter what level I got a top 100 time in

RiNSpy · Post by **RiNSpy** » 21 Jun 2006, 16:00

H8 wrote:JNR time: 41,23,94
level: 88 (88,372224)

Nice system , better leveling system than the old one, though i think the JNR TT is unnecessary.

Thank you

I agree that the JNR TT is pretty confusing and not really neccessary, but it just feels nice when it says that your JNR TT is 63:15:74 when your real TT is 75:07:39

My level is 57 (57.831140) by the way

Juski · Post by **Juski** » 21 Jun 2006, 16:22

I have thought of this too, at first it sounded as a good idea but then i relised something that you should have too. a avg time on warm up is 15 secs. and on apple harvest it is 3 minutes. to use your system the warm up time gives approx 93 points while the harvest time gives aproxx 48 points, that is quite a big difference, it is not always similarly ez to do close to the wr time because everyone uses dfferent styles. that makes it better to use the old leveling system that is based on target times which much better says how good your time actuly is...

Staar · Post by **Staar** » 21 Jun 2006, 16:25

Number of Points: 4492
Total Time: 45:20:68
JNR Time: 43:58:90
Level: 83

Cool System

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 21 Jun 2006, 16:43

Number of points: 4734.644043
Total Time: 41:58,97
JNR: Time: 41:43,59
Level: 87 (87.678593)

Squip · Post by **Squip** » 21 Jun 2006, 16:44

whats wrong with top100 list for each level?

anpdad · Post by **anpdad** » 21 Jun 2006, 18:42

Number of points: 5141.496094
Total Time: 38:29:44
JNR Time: 38:25:48
Level: 95 (95.212890)

Post by **SveinR** » 21 Jun 2006, 19:24

Number of points: 4908.686523
Total Time: 40:38:60
JNR Time: 40:14:83
Level: 90 (90.901602)

Dynamo · Post by **Dynamo** » 21 Jun 2006, 19:40

Mine's better lol

edit: ahh...well this is a bit more accurate I suppose

btw: Level 93 lol

Juski · Post by **Juski** » 21 Jun 2006, 19:55

Dynamo wrote:Mine's better lol

edit: ahh...well this is a bit more accurate I suppose

btw: Level 93 lol

No, actuly, yours is much better. This is just complicated and works well when comparing single levels between players. But does not take into account that different styles make it variously hard to get relatively close to wrs in different levels.

Lukazz · Post by **Lukazz** » 21 Jun 2006, 20:19

level 91...
lolz

anpdad · Post by **anpdad** » 21 Jun 2006, 21:29

why teh hell 40min guys har so close level to me? :X

Grace · Post by **Grace** » 22 Jun 2006, 02:02

Juski wrote:I have thought of this too, at first it sounded as a good idea but then i relised something that you should have too. a avg time on warm up is 15 secs. and on apple harvest it is 3 minutes. to use your system the warm up time gives approx 93 points while the harvest time gives aproxx 48 points, that is quite a big difference, it is not always similarly ez to do close to the wr time because everyone uses dfferent styles. that makes it better to use the old leveling system that is based on target times which much better says how good your time actuly is...

8-ball · Post by **8-ball** » 22 Jun 2006, 06:30

je0 actually, Dynamo's levelling system that was based on targets was more accurate.

Lee · Post by **Lee** » 22 Jun 2006, 07:14

Number of points: 4866.864258
Total Time: 41:07,49
JNR Time: 40:35,58
Level: 90 (90.127116)

Dynamo · Post by **Dynamo** » 25 Jun 2006, 07:09

8-ball wrote:je0 actually, Dynamo's levelling system that was based on targets was more accurate.

tanx!

Harald Hasch · Post by **Harald Hasch** » 26 Jun 2006, 03:08

points: 645.724915
tt: 5405:56:52
jnr time: 305:57:11
level 11

da beSt!

Xiphias · Post by **Xiphias** » 30 Jun 2006, 22:30

so this wasn't any succes.. or what?

Grace · Post by **Grace** » 1 Jul 2006, 02:55

it would be more of a success if we knew what the fuck teh asterisks mean! (*)

RiNSpy wrote:. Solution

There is a way to "justify" the Total Time though, and make efforts (and skills) on different levels of the same value. How? By introducing "points", or "relative time".
For example, the World Record on "Warm Up" is 00:14:05, which is 1405ms. In the beginning both players had 17 secs on this track, which is 1700ms. Thus, the number of points they had for this track is equal 1405/1700*100 = 82.65. If we calculate their points for "Apple Harvest", they would be equal 8690 / 42000 *100 = 20.69 points. So, both players had a sum of 103.34 points out of 200 possible. After the first player hoyled "Warm Up", and the second player hoyled "Apple Harvest", their points are as follows:
1st player: 20.69 + 1405/1500*100 = 114.36 points out of 200 possible
2nd player: 82.65 + 8690 / 36000 * 100 = 82.65 + 24.14 = 106.79 points out of 200 possible.
Thus, we see, that the skills of the first player are higher than the skills of the 2nd player.

We can now also calculate the "Relative Total Time" or "JNR Total Time", by solving the following proportion:

200 points (world record) - 10095 ms
114.36 points - x ms

x = 200 / 114.36 * 10095 = 17655 ms (JNR) = 2:56:55 (JNR)

200 points (world record) - 10095 ms
106.79 points - y ms

y = 200 / 106.79 * 10095 = 18906 ms (JNR) = 3:09:06 (JNR)

By comparing the JNR Total Times we can judge how much better the first player is compared to the second player.

But, to avoid confusion with the "real" TT, I suggest introducing player's "Level":

200 points (world record) - Level 100 (WR)
114.36 points - Level X

X = 114.36 / 200 * 100 = 57 Level

200 points (world record) - Level 100 (WR)
106.79 points - Level Y

Y = 106.79 / 200 * 100 = 53 Level

Thus, the level of the first player is 57, and the level of the second player is 53, which shows that the first player is more skilled than the second ( while the ordinary Total Time would show the opposite).

--------------------------------

so many * and more *! what do they mean?

Post by **SveinR** » 1 Jul 2006, 03:45

multiplied by

Grace · Post by **Grace** » 1 Jul 2006, 07:15

Do i use the Program to make it work? if so Re-Upload please

www.mxb.dk

RiNSpy · Post by **RiNSpy** » 1 Jul 2006, 11:55

Re-uploaded: http://www.mxb.dk/upload/ElmaLevels.zip

As for developing the app, basically, I'm being too lazy for that at the moment

I wanted to create a GUI for it + add some extra features, such as auto updating of the world records, showing the number of points for each level, etc., and I'll probably do that in a few weeks.

Also, if anyone's interested, I can upload the sources - they're written in c++, using purely object oriented design - they have some useful classes for working with elma times, parsing stats.txt, etc.

Cheers,

RiNSpy

Grace · Post by **Grace** » 1 Jul 2006, 13:00

thanks RiNSpy

Level 72 (72.594536)
JNR time: 50:24:22
Total Points: 3919.564941

72!!!!!

culinko · Post by **culinko** » 1 Jul 2006, 14:55

pts: 4778.182129
tt: 42:22,98
jnr time: 41:20,78
level 88: 88.484854

Honza · Post by **Honza** » 1 Jul 2006, 15:47

number of points: 4820.441895
tt: 41:44:02
JNR: 40:59:03
Level 89 <89>

I dont understand it much, is it beter to have high or low level

Grace · Post by **Grace** » 1 Jul 2006, 15:51

Hiigh

Lee · Post by **Lee** » 2 Jul 2006, 01:33

Level: 90.399043

Raven · Post by **Raven** » 2 Jul 2006, 02:14

Number of points: 5114.68212
Total Time: 38:53:97
JNR Time: 38:37:57
Level: 94 (94.716336)

Raven · Post by **Raven** » 28 Jan 2007, 04:47

Number of Points: 5185.819824
Total Time: 38.21.09
JNR Time: 38.05.78
Level: 96 (96.033700)

Grace · Post by **Grace** » 28 Jan 2007, 09:56

John should post... lolz, i deleted this Yesterday =*, when cleaning my hdrive for space... i think i was about level 78 or something.

RiNSpy · Post by **RiNSpy** » 19 Mar 2007, 19:50

Blimey, looks like I had way too much time on my hands back then. That essay is damn long! Ah, the good times those were :/

Glad someone's still using it.

Memphis · Post by **Memphis** » 20 Mar 2007, 20:23

I think im lvl 90 but not really sure.