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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 3 May 2016, 09:10 
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Go go make this zigzag happen. I also really hope my old int35 run is beaten, it's a tad outdated. If it's not beaten yet, i might try to SL something quickly in a day or two, should i bother? I would really love not to :D


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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 3 May 2016, 17:41 
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Zweq wrote:
culinko wrote:
The bounce for the longjump in the second rec is a bug.


i think it's clean enough, it's a very reproducible bounce, like seriously you can get somekind of bounce there probably 1/3 and some of those will be buggier and fly far enough

Wasn't Stini's enigma rec considered a bug right after it has been published? It's also very reproducible, many people beat it already, but we don't see px updating it in the table. I think even reproducible bugs shouldn't be allowed. After all, they're still bugs. Sick style and rec, tho.

anpe: Pls go beat.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 3 May 2016, 19:18 
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culinko wrote:
Zweq wrote:
culinko wrote:
The bounce for the longjump in the second rec is a bug.


i think it's clean enough, it's a very reproducible bounce, like seriously you can get somekind of bounce there probably 1/3 and some of those will be buggier and fly far enough

Wasn't Stini's enigma rec considered a bug right after it has been published? It's also very reproducible, many people beat it already, but we don't see px updating it in the table. I think even reproducible bugs shouldn't be allowed. After all, they're still bugs. Sick style and rec, tho.

anpe: Pls go beat.


Theres a fundamental difference between this zigzag bounce and enigma bounce though. Another place where you can see this type of bounce used is new wave around 22s. These kind of bounces are buggy by nature. It's a unique type of bounce that i would personally call "ninja bounce" or sach, because you go for press brake when approaching the desired vertex instead of when going away from it.

You are right about it's still a bug and bugs shouldn't be allowed.

heres another example http://www.recsource.tv/r/somxnkdeiy (i got bugs there all the time)

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 3 May 2016, 20:28 
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Here is the definition of bounce from moposite like ten years ago

Bounce
A trick where you pressure one of the wheels and then press brake to release the pressure. You can practice bounces in the Playing section. Bounce was originally deemed as bug, but when people started to know how to make it on purpose, it revealed lots of new style possibilities. Nowadays it belongs to every höylä's trick gallery. Bounce should be distinguished from a bug bounce, which happens sometimes when you are trying bounce. A bug bounce is a unnaturally powerful bounce which can't be predicted. It is sometimes hard to make a clear difference between a normal bounce and a bug bounce. For example current enigma wrs have a controversial bounces. There has been discussion should they be allowed or not. But it's hard to draw line which bounce is buggy and which is not. That's why all enigma bounces are allowed so far, but generally a bug bounce is not allowed.


I guess they used to allow all enigma bounces

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 3 May 2016, 20:50 
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I've just tried it for 10 minutes with a low fps and either got a huge bug or nothing. I don't get this bounce. Out of curiosity, what fps did you use and what was the min distance from the centre?

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 3 May 2016, 22:50 
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Zweq wrote:
Theres a fundamental difference between this zigzag bounce and enigma bounce though. Another place where you can see this type of bounce used is new wave around 22s. These kind of bounces are buggy by nature. It's a unique type of bounce that i would personally call "ninja bounce" or sach, because you go for press brake when approaching the desired vertex instead of when going away from it.

You are right about it's still a bug and bugs shouldn't be allowed.

heres another example http://www.recsource.tv/r/somxnkdeiy (i got bugs there all the time)

Oh yeah, you are right about the new wave bounce. It always felt "more ok" (but still buggy) than this zig-zag bounce for me, because it doesn't give you as much speed there, but the bug bounce is the fastest way for that part and also you don't hit the head there because of it. I also don't know how I feel about the stretches that give you insane speed like in animal farm and tricks abound. I always wanted to have a discussion about these bugs(?) and all sorts of wheelpops and stuff, but I feel like there aren't many people interested in this stuff nowadays anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 4 May 2016, 00:55 
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If that bug is clean, then imagine every internal being played at every spot with that kind of move...It would ruin all imo.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 4 May 2016, 09:34 
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culinko wrote:
I also don't know how I feel about the stretches that give you insane speed like in animal farm and tricks abound. I always wanted to have a discussion about these bugs(?) and all sorts of wheelpops and stuff, but I feel like there aren't many people interested in this stuff nowadays anyway.

Animal Farm is a regular fps trick, easily reproducible even without SL. Wheelpops are used in regular runs too, it's just so much easier to master them in SL.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 4 May 2016, 10:13 
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If tasing elma was popular there would be at least 3 categories:
With bugpop - as my tas project.
Without bugpop - as this tabletopic.
Without bugpop and with const decided fps for example only 1000 - To remove all bugs/stretches/wheelpops that happen/are possible due to changing fps mid run or due to playing with low fps.

Changing fps mid run causes all kinds of small weirdness to happen. imo zweq also said similar. This feels not just limited to "30 fps is faster höh" there is something else going on when fps goes from high to low in a single frame or gets changed I think I'm just an guessing nab don't trust my judgment.
zanpe wrote:
... from "exploiting" by using 30 and 999 fps million times in the same ride and höyling in 5s segments 10h per. I used same "method" in fruit in the den, only 56.7x was supposed to be possible but i managed to get it down to 55.55 with a lot and a lot of merging each part. It's probably the most höyled of my sl rides and one of the most höyled of all sl rekords, after maybe bene's records.

I think zampe would favor 1000 fps only const fps only category and noobs would favor other cause 1000 fps only const fps only category would have some times worse than live wrs osv.

ofc this is impossible since we have no guaranteed way of removing bugpops and no way of playing const fps outside of hourglass and new tools would be needed and stuff osv. So for now you will have to live with wheelpops,fun stretches, questionable bounces and other fun stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 4 May 2016, 15:23 
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Madness wrote:
I've just tried it for 10 minutes with a low fps and either got a huge bug or nothing. I don't get this bounce. Out of curiosity, what fps did you use and what was the min distance from the centre?


Maybe try high fps

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 7 May 2016, 18:14 
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Madness wrote:

Is this still gonna happen? Curious as fuck after seeing the trailer!

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 7 May 2016, 18:22 
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Pawq wrote:
Is this still gonna happen?

Still gonna happen :-D trailer was released last week. Wait a year or two before full vid. SL wrs are that bad osv.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 7 May 2016, 18:23 
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Dame, didn't notice that! Got a bit lost between what was posted 2 years ago and 2 days ago :P Looking forward then!

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 8 May 2016, 11:12 
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That trailer!!!!! Headbang pie wtf!!!!!!! :DDDDDDDDDDDD

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 15:46 
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Madness can you include tt drop in updates also I want to see how much tt dropped last update when many new wrs but impsy.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 17:24 
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09, 16, 35, 50 those are probably the worst wrs on a quick glance. 35 should be ez some 2.04 and the others ez 0.5 better

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 20:50 
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Didn't you do 35start.dat that was much faster than all and oke can you share this? Maybe anpe can do his promised run???
50 is horrible even bjenn did faster start but mid+end is cool in zew rec probably ez 0.50 better for some bjenn.
45 is also horrible should be ez .20 faster or .40 faster with random trickery but start is so homo i never get motivated to try anything.

Edit: I think shelf life poss better if some anpe plays with kiiwi/jamppa styles and zweq styels combined but not as much as 0.5
Also hooked ez 0.10 improve if mielz plays some idiot run together with madness imo.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jun 2016, 00:28 
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Update:

34. Bumpy Journey  —  bene - 35.79   :arrow:   bene - 35.62
51. Tricks Abound  —  Madness - 35.18   :arrow:   Madness - 32.91

Total Time Drop — 2.53

// Edited Spef's time in Enigma as I found a slightly faster rec of his in my rec folder.

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Last edited by Madness on 1 Jun 2016, 11:17, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jun 2016, 08:19 
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GZ on Tricks Madness! Very cool :beer:

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jun 2016, 08:51 
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bene wrote:
Madness can you include tt drop in updates also I want to see how much tt dropped last update when many new wrs but impsy.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 6 Jun 2016, 17:17 
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sick 34 b0ne gief rec plz

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jul 2016, 00:42 
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Update:

17. Labyrinth  —  Madness - 51.79   :arrow:   Mielz - 51.20
28. Bounce Back  —  Madness - 45.64   :arrow:   Madness - 45.07
45. Sink  —  Bjenn - 32.33   :arrow:   Madness - 31.84
47. Enigma  —  Spef - 18.92   :arrow:   Mielz - 18.91
50. Expert System  —  Zweq - 48.06   :arrow:   Bjenn - 47.82

Total Time Drop — 1.90

// Added [dat] logo.
// Added history. Click on the table to browse older tables.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jul 2016, 03:51 
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Amazing times and job. Where can i see 45 rec?

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jul 2016, 05:00 
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Why so hard to wipe bjenn off table???

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jul 2016, 06:40 
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Why id not logo on table when they have one???

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jul 2016, 06:51 
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now thats ok times


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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jul 2016, 15:59 
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sik sink!! how time?

soon 44.9x on bounceback? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jul 2016, 16:07 
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Am guessing there's a stretch similar to that tricks abound thingy in sink. Sik time either way.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jul 2016, 18:13 
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i guess a bounce in this part
Code:

_____   |
    /   | <--
  /    / <-- or here
|
|
  \
    \_______


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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jul 2016, 18:17 
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I shared a rec with bounce style in 2012.
I also saw sink tas rec. I see all recs :-(

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jul 2016, 18:55 
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- Bug bounces are not allowed. Bounces that look too strange and irreproducible will not be accepted.

Now, about that Sink rec..

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jul 2016, 19:11 
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Bjenn jelly and defensive cause he löst wr?

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jul 2016, 20:37 
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Here's my Sink rec: http://www.recsource.tv/r/igbtyecxvw

Feel free to share your opinion on whether it's acceptable or not. I can always delete it from the table.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jul 2016, 20:48 
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very nice find! i am wondering when 31 in normal WR table :) doesnt seem too hard, isnt it?

1 vote for legal. go for 31.7x

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jul 2016, 21:53 
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Your bounce is not reproducible in my opinion, I know this by playing the style, but maybe it is with other fps than 75?

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 1 Jul 2016, 22:59 
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Dont know how hard is to make that but seems very normal bounce. Think on all little bounces we make playing internals, and them are all acceptable.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 2 Jul 2016, 05:59 
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Even though I am usually against all the unnatural things like the Tricks Abound stretch or Flat Track wheelpop, I think this bounce looks fine. There are similar bounces like this already in the normal WR table I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 2 Jul 2016, 07:11 
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Long Haul SLwr:

http://www.recsource.tv/r/krnewmyqaj

if this one is accepted, then sink must be too.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 2 Jul 2016, 07:21 
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Madness wrote:
Feel free to share your opinion on whether it's acceptable or not. I can always delete it from the table.

Acceptability should be based on facts and not onions from osv

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 2 Jul 2016, 07:46 
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bene wrote:
Madness wrote:
Feel free to share your opinion on whether it's acceptable or not. I can always delete it from the table.

Acceptability should be based on facts and not onions from osv

wtF b0ne? If you are in possession of facts that would help everyone distinguish bug bounces from nonbug ones, please share with the rest of the community. Until now i believed such facts can't even exist.

As for the bounce, this looks like an acceptable bug to me. It's definitely somewhat on a buggy side, however it probably happens consistently enough to not care, and doesn't require stini's PC.


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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 2 Jul 2016, 07:48 
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Madness wrote:
Here's my Sink rec: http://www.recsource.tv/r/igbtyecxvw

Feel free to share your opinion on whether it's acceptable or not. I can always delete it from the table.

Obvious bug there...


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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 2 Jul 2016, 08:01 
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with sl almost anything is reproducible. So, something being reproducible or nat is no longer (if it ever was) a viable way to judge replays. It looks like something pexi would accept, which is probably the best judgement we can make. I would accept it based on that. But of course pexi hasn't said anything and this is just my opinion.

But if that is accepted then we are again at the core of the problem, you can just improve that bug by 0.05 and it would still look the same. We discussed this with mila to death, and eventually both just lost interest in höyling proper SL records. Finding styles is ultra fun though

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 2 Jul 2016, 08:26 
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Another problem is that the more and more you accept the more and more blind you get to buggy stuff. After tas video playing everything looked acceptable to me unless some 1200 speed bounce or bugstretching.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 2 Jul 2016, 08:32 
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Zweq wrote:
with sl almost anything is reproducible. So, something being reproducible or nat is no longer (if it ever was) a viable way to judge replays.

I definitely agree with this, even bugs are reproducible now if you know how to do them (as b0ne proved in his video).

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 2 Jul 2016, 10:09 
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Let me show a normal bounce in that corner http://www.recsource.tv/r/jazumqriov
Edit: Okay maybe I didn't have same entrance speed as Madness in this rec.. bad example.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 2 Jul 2016, 16:28 
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Bene showed me a way to determine whether a bounce is a bug or not and unfortunately my Sink and also Pipe bounces are bugs, so you won't see these WRs in the next table.

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 2 Jul 2016, 17:23 
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Then what about the other SLWRs? What about Stinis Enigma? And what about Pipe WR?

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 2 Jul 2016, 18:37 
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And what about let us know how to determinate it if there is a real way for it? (8

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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 2 Jul 2016, 19:12 
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No, in the elma world you're supposed to find out everything on your own and hoard that sacred knowledge.


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 Post subject: Re: Saveload WR table
PostPosted: 2 Jul 2016, 19:46 
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Location: Sweden
Schumi wrote:
Then what about the other SLWRs? What about Stinis Enigma? And what about Pipe WR?

I proposed a method that requires knowledge of the exact fps used, the exact moves used and the bike state for the given frames, all of which are available in milasl. Well not exact fps unless you can calculate it from bikestate. But if you know it was 100 that is almost good enuf maybe
It is all theoretical and using ghetto methods perhaps it would be best shared and discussed. I got far bigger response than anticipated from a single drunken pm to madness explaining a theory to detect bug bounces that I discovered but never explored when doing tas video stuff.

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Signatür ruined by SveinR - smaller plz :*


Last edited by bene on 2 Jul 2016, 20:40, edited 1 time in total.

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