Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Look for replays and levels and ask people's times.

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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by nonstop » 14 Nov 2018, 23:44

Hello guys! My exams are coming up, so naturally everything except from studying feels like great fun at the moment. Among my procrastination activities today was to try to investigate which elma WRs are the strongest. I'm not going to bombastically say that I've managed to rank the WRs from objectively worst to best, but I made a list that hopefully will give some insights. My idea was to rank the WRs by how many % worse they are than the S/L WR. I copied the current WR table into a google sheet, and made a list based on that, so that part should be completely correct. I got the S/L WRs from the first post in this thread, and I used the best red numbers. I'm not sure if it's completely updated or not. Four of the levels didn't have S/L WRs, so I filled the WR times into those slots. It also appears to me there is a mistake on Long Haul in the first post. I suspect that zweq's S/L-time is supposed to be 28.87 and not 30.87, but maybe I'm wrong. The rest of the sheet works solely based on formulas. Note that I had to write the times in seconds only (and not the xx:xx:xx format) to make the ranking and formulas work. Labyrinth Pro and Animal Farm stick out as the levels where the WR is clearly the furthest behind the S/L-time in %-terms.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Anyone should be able to view the sheet by following that link. If someone wants the rights to edit, I can add you, but I need your email address.

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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by Labs » 15 Nov 2018, 01:09

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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by Grace » 15 Nov 2018, 05:59

I quite like the idea, nonstop, although I'm not sure about how valid the conclusions are. :P

For example, the labyrinth pro SL is undoubtedly one of the absolute best SL WRs in the game (top 5 100%, and many would put it as the best SL WR). Consequently, the lab pro standard WR is last on this list, despite the fact that the WR itself is probably not the weakest WR in the game.

Further, it doesn't account for how difficult a strategy is. A difficult route is trivialised somewhat by SL, and this means that naturally, the SL and standard WRs will be further apart. See Animal Farm and Hi-Flyer for examples of this - both are considered in the 10 weakest WRs according to these stats, but in reality they are not.

SL also has access to non-viable strategies compared to standard human play, and this is an issue that plagues comparison between TAS and Standard play across all games, not just Elma. This is obvious when you look at Warm Up, Jaws, Bowling and Labyrinth Pro, all of which make use of either absurdly optimised bounces (Jaws, Bowling) that are unrealistic in real runs, or "shampooing" (WU, Lab Pro) which just isn't possible for humans

If you look at hoyla levels where the use of SL only provides the benefit of optimisation rather than enabling non-viable strategies, you then get the top 10 on this list.

I'd propose that the conclusions of your statistics are not "what are the strongest/weakest WRs" but rather along the lines of "which WRs are closer to the theoretical limit". Nonetheless, it's a cool set of statistics, and does provide some insight as you had hoped for.
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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by nonstop » 15 Nov 2018, 07:51

Completely agree with you Grace. Especially think this is a good idea:
If you look at hoyla levels where the use of SL only provides the benefit of optimisation rather than enabling non-viable strategies, you then get the top 10 on this list.
For that we need someone more knowledgeable of the game than I am though.

Another idea is to try to group levels based on S/L-style difficulty (where level length is accounted for in the grouping). Probably only someone with elite skill will be qualified to make such a grouping, and have it reflect reality.

Also would like to know if I have the right S/L-times. That table that Labs linked to looks like it's outdated to me.

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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by Zweq » 15 Nov 2018, 08:44

15 is the strongest wr :)
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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by bene » 15 Nov 2018, 18:31

:bear: is strong
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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by sunl » 17 Nov 2018, 19:58

Oh dear recsource has passed away? :(

I'll have to work on finding the recs again

Any help appreciated

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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by Kazan » 20 Nov 2018, 06:23

it would be very good if you posted them)
want to see spef wrs and prs

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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by iltsu » 20 Nov 2018, 19:39

How about new EDQ video when totaltime goes u 34.30? Or maybe when all wrs from EDQ 2012 is beaten?

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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by Kopaka » 20 Nov 2018, 20:00

I'd say the important thing is whether it would be a significantly different video to watch than the last. Ie. is there different styles in a significant number of levels? I don't really have a good overview of that.

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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by bene » 20 Nov 2018, 20:03

Can't make a new one until someone beats int03 wr :bear:
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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by Labs » 21 Nov 2018, 10:56

iltsu wrote:
20 Nov 2018, 19:39
How about new EDQ video when totaltime goes u 34.30? Or maybe when all wrs from EDQ 2012 is beaten?
Next should be at u34.
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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by bene » 28 Nov 2018, 18:40

sunl wrote:
17 Nov 2018, 19:58
Oh dear recsource has passed away? :(

I'll have to work on finding the recs again

Any help appreciated
Here bjen rec
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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by Schumi » 28 Jan 2019, 17:16

any update on this one??
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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by ArZeNiK » 28 Jan 2019, 18:36

Schumi wrote:
28 Jan 2019, 17:16
any update on this one??
well recsource is dead af and no one has provided the recs either (i might have some tho). i reccomend stats.sshoyer.net it is pretty good database of internal level replays.
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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by Schumi » 28 Jan 2019, 19:03

but no slwrrecs on stats :(
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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by pawq » 28 Jan 2019, 22:19

Apparently the recsource database is salvageable and it may potentially be possible to even resurrect the old links in the future, but it's only rumours so please don't go about highlighting everyone asking about it just yet (looking at you arze :wink:)

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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by Labs » 5 Feb 2020, 22:26

Collected many missing recs, also some of the norm recs better than on topic, so can refresh ez.

http://kopasite.net/up/6z5jm1v3n441kii/ ... sedrec.zip
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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by pawq » 5 Feb 2020, 22:56

Very sik job Labs, thanks! Would be amazing if someone orkaed create a new topic to continue these updates, it was one of the most useful resources in elma imo!

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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by dorTrus » 21 Feb 2020, 21:01

iltsu wrote:
20 Nov 2018, 19:39
How about new EDQ video when totaltime goes u 34.30? Or maybe when all wrs from EDQ 2012 is beaten?
There is no new edq atm?
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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by VALDO » 21 Feb 2020, 22:20

dorTrus wrote:
21 Feb 2020, 21:01
iltsu wrote:
20 Nov 2018, 19:39
How about new EDQ video when totaltime goes u 34.30? Or maybe when all wrs from EDQ 2012 is beaten?
There is no new edq atm?
ETA 2032

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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by AndrY » 22 Feb 2020, 07:32

wow so rare mans here)
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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by Abula » 26 May 2020, 20:07

I think the replays of sunl's first post are here: https://archive.moposite.com/replay/sav ... -04-01.zip Also found some other zip that sounds like it belongs here: https://archive.moposite.com/replay/sl_ ... 1-2018.zip

I don't have time to update any lists or something but I just happened to download the replays in 2018 just in case. Ville_J should upload the recsource replay files to some basic file directory or one big zip. And the duplicate problem can be solved by using the original replay file name + extra id if there are duplicates like "Abula01.rec", "lol.rec.1", "lol.rec.2" etc.

edit: fixed the text a bit
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Re: Table of Best Internal Recs (Saveload, Bug, Regular)

Post by Raven » 16 Jul 2020, 04:11

pawq wrote:
5 Feb 2020, 22:56
Very sik job Labs, thanks! Would be amazing if someone orkaed create a new topic to continue these updates, it was one of the most useful resources in elma imo!
I’m interested. I will make a new one soon. Trying to gather as many replays as I can.

If you have some, feel free to send them to me on discord.
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