TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

The reason the smoke monster appears as someone close to the observer, is to catch the observers attention. The monste chose to look like Yemi, so that Eko would confess to him. And it chose to look like christian, so that Jack would follow him.
chux wrote:Prediction: I actually said this years ago, but I'll put it in writing now. Jack and Kate will die in the "fresh water" caves in 1977, and become the "Adam and Eve" skeletons they found in 2004.
This might be a bit far-fetched, but: ONLY FOOLS ARE ENSLAVED BY TIME AND SPACE

We see this line in the brain-washing film in room 23.

This is an anagram for: Bones of Nadlers May Lay Lost In Deep Cave

Nadler is Rose and Bernard's surname. Fits quite well, don't you think?
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by chux »

Haha, I like that. Insanely farfetched, just like all the best Lost theories. That 'Bad Twin' book was written by a "Gary Troup", which is an anagram of purgatory. But they're obviously not dead. Not all of them anyway :P

I thought Room 23's "Jacob loves you" line was more interesting. Did that mean the bible's Jacob, or the island's Jacob?
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

Don't read this unless you have watched the season 5 finale! MAJOR spoiler alert if you haven't! (I'm not kidding.)

In this theory I'm pretty much going to explain the conversation taking place in the opening of the season 5 finale line by line. I'm going to explain who Jacob and the man in black is, and also share a mini-theory on Richard. The theory is based on two assumptions - One of which requires that you read my previous post on the man in black, which can be found in this thread. These two assumptions are;

The man in black is the smoke monster in it's human form. Thus, he's the island's defence system in it's human form.
Jacob is the human form of the island itself.
Jacob: I take it you're here 'cause of the ship.
MIB: I am. How did they find the Island?
Jacob: You'll have to ask 'em when they get here.
MIB: I don't have to ask. You brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong, aren't you?
Jacob: You are wrong.
These lines are pretty straight forward. We have yet to find out what they are discussing, and why Jacob would bring the ship to the island, but we will get the answer to that soon:
MIB: Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.
Now we begin to understand what they were arguing about. The man in black does clearly not like outsiders - humans - coming to the island since he is the security system. It's his job to protect it, so he doesn't like how they act on the island, and how they "destroy" it. Jacob, however, thinks the humans will learn, eventually, to live in peace:
Jacob: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.
This is why jacob brought the ship to the island. He feels like the humans deserve a second chance. He wants the humans to be able to live in peace and harmony on the island. The man in black, however, sees jacob's bringing people to the island as a threat. He doesn't want others to come here, and the only way to prevent them to do so, is to kill jacob, so that he can't bring more people.
MIB: Do you have any idea how badly I wanna kill you?
Jacob: Yes.
And there you have it. This is why he wants to kill jacob. So why hasn't he done it yet?
MIB: One of these days, sooner or later... I'm going to find a loophole, my friend.
So it would seem the man in black can't kill Jacob. And when you think about it, it's pretty obvious why. The man in black - the security system of the island - can't kill jacob, because jacob, in a way, is the island. Killing him would be destroying the island's human form, thus destroying part of the island. This would be going against the purpose of the security system, thus it is impossible.

We know from the scene in the end, where jacob is killed, that the "Reincarnated" Locke is actually the smoke monster. He found his loophole by having Ben kill Jacob -The man in black was only unable to kill jacob himself, so once he found someone to do it for him, jacob could be killed.

Now the question remains - what took him so long? there must have been other people who he could have convinced, be it others or Dharma people? As a matter of fact, he couldn't. This is explained by, believe it or not, Ilana. She and her team hiked to the cabin, only to find the ash circle around it broken - whoever was trapped in the cabin is now free. She then enters the cabin only to find out that Jacob isn't there:
Ilana: He isn't there, hasn't been in a long time. Someone else has been using it.
So if jacob hasn't been in the cabin for a long time, then who was trapped in the cabin? Who is this "someone else"? It would have to be someone with supernatural powers, and extensive knowledge of the island, seeing as theyre both invisible and knows how to move the island. And wait a minute, didn't we see Christian shephard in the cabin? And what did my previous theory say? That Christian Shephard is actually The man in black!

So it was not jacob who was trapped in the cabin; It was the man in black! And now he had finally been set free (the hole in the ash circle) and could finally set his plan in motion; to assume the body of someone, and then use that form to convince a living person to kill jacob. That someone's body ended up to be Locke's, and the person he convinced - using Lockes body - was Ben.



Also, I have a minor theory based on this one: Fed up with the people who came on the black rock, the man in black had a giant wave, a tsunami, flood the island. This wave washed the black rock up on the island, and at the same time knocked down the statue of Taweret, like so:
Image
Couldn't be bothered downloading a gif creator, so I just used some freeware version of videomach. 8)

Anyway. This wave drowned all the people who were origianlly on the black rock - except for one; Richard Alpert. Jacob managed to save him, and for some reason made it so that he doen't age. This works well with what Richard says to Locke in the finale:
Locke: I've never seen anyone who doesn't age. Doesn't mean it can't happen.
Richard: I'm this way because of Jacob.
So there you have it! A theory on Jacob, The man in black, and a mini-theory on Richard. Hope there weren't too many typos and such - I really shouldn't be writing these at 6.30 AM.. :D
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

So I just watched a stream of the first half of the season 6 premiere. Insane! Can't wait for the second half on Tuesday. :O!

Also, Pretty much immediately after season 5 ended I had a theory on how the opening scene of season 6 was gonna be..

Turns out I was right. o,o
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Grace »

Igge wrote:

Now the question remains - what took him so long? there must have been other people who he could have convinced, be it others or Dharma people? As a matter of fact, he couldn't. This is explained by, believe it or not, Ilana. She and her team hiked to the cabin, only to find the ash circle around it broken - whoever was trapped in the cabin is now free. She then enters the cabin only to find out that Jacob isn't there:
This might be a farfetched guess, seeing as i haven't watched Lost since season 2 or something, but back then, when they first inhabited a Dharma Hatch place (where Desmond was living) and There was that code they had to push into the computer. Once, they did not push the code in and some HUUUUGE electromagnetic pulse happened. Could this have disturbed that circle of w/e it was preventing Man in black from escaping?

But again, i'm highly likely missing too much information to be accurate :D
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

I like that you stopped watching, but still are trying to figure the show out. 8) Seriously, you should watch teh.

Anyway, the entire cabin in which jacob used to live was surrounded by a very big circle of ash on the ground. When they got to it, they noticed a very small gap in the circle, that looks indeed man-made:

Image

I don't think the EMP would have created such a neat gap, but how could you know, since you hadn't even seen the scene? 8) I like your way of thinking though - trying to connect earlier events with recent ones. If you really look into it now, you will notice incredibly many hints from the earlier seasons as to what happens at the moment.

*SPOILER FOR THE SEASON 6 PREMIERE. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED YOU WILL HAVE TO WAIT TILL WEDNESDAY BEFORE YOU CAN ERAD THIS*

In the season 6 premiere we actually get to see one instance where the smoke monster, ie the man in black is prevented from attacking a person due to a circle of ash around him. I guess that strengthens my theory on who was in the cabin after Jacob, since they realized he could have gotten out of the cabin once the ash circle was destroyed.

But right now, as I was writing this, I realized smoething. Maybe the ash circle wasn't there to prevent MiB from getting out - maybe it was there to prevent him from getting in? If Jacob previously lived in the cabin, maybe he just wanted to keep MiB out by using the ash?

Hm, hard to tell.


*END OF SPOILER*
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

FUCKING BLOODY BRILLIANTLY AWESOME EPISODES
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by gimp »

so the smoke monster has now been officially declared as the man in black and alternate realities seem to be occurring after the hydrogen bomb.

questions:Wasn't Jack's father lost in the first plane crash as well? And, what does it mean by his father being lost now?
Was Desmond really on the plane, or was it some sort of mind fuck? (it's still possible for him to be on the plane, since now he never would of made it to the island) How did Juliet know that she was also living in an alternate reality when she died? The man in black wants to go home, but where is home?

Theory: In the recap before the finale, the baby Aaron was given his own personalized summary, though i had previously never believed Aaron to be that significant. Since he is the only known baby to be born on the island, i am beginning to think Aaron will play a very big role in the show sooner or later.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

gimp wrote:so the smoke monster has now been officially declared as the man in black and alternate realities seem to be occurring after the hydrogen bomb.
Turns out I was right o/

Was right about this as well: http://forum.lostpedia.com/showpost.php ... tcount=104 ;D
gimp wrote:questions:Wasn't Jack's father lost in the first plane crash as well? And, what does it mean by his father being lost now?
Yep. The difference, though, is that in the crash the coffin was on the plane until the crash, but in this AR the it never made it on the plane.
gimp wrote:Was Desmond really on the plane, or was it some sort of mind fuck? (it's still possible for him to be on the plane, since now he never would of made it to the island)
Hard to tell. guess we'll have to wait with this one.
gimp wrote:How did Juliet know that she was also living in an alternate reality when she died? The man in black wants to go home, but where is home?
Does she live in the AR though? The island is submerged in the reality where oceanic doesn't crash. Though I guess there are still ways she could have made it off the island before it sunk(?).
gimp wrote:Theory: In the recap before the finale, the baby Aaron was given his own personalized summary, though i had previously never believed Aaron to be that significant. Since he is the only known baby to be born on the island, i am beginning to think Aaron will play a very big role in the show sooner or later.
Ethan was also born on the island. However, I'm guessing Aaron is the first baby born after the incident.

Some more questions:

1. Why was the island under water?
2. What is the nature of these "flashsideways"?
3. Why does ash repel MiB?
4. Who is the 'leader' at the temple?
5. Was Richard on the black rock?
6. How did Sayid come back to life?

1. I'm guessing it had something to do with the incident. That's all for now though.
2. I'm not sure. All I can imagine is that they will intersect towards the end of the season. Whether or not they will have an impact on eachother before that is hard to tell.
3. Hm?
4. Some guy who does not like the taste of English. Anything else?
5. MiB to Richard: "It's nice to see you out of those chains". Like you can see in my earlier theory I claimed Richard came to the island on the Black Rock. What I didn't mention back then was the probability of him being a slave on said boat was a pretty high probability. The first time they visit the Black Rock, to get the dynamite, the camera idles for a second on an empty set of chains - all the other chains were used to keep skeletons in place. I believe Richard was the person who was previously in those chains, before Jacob somehow saved him.
6. I'm guessing it's similar to MiB taking over Locke - Jacob said it was necessary they bring Sayid to the temple, and all of a sudden he comes back to life there..

Anyway, those are just a couple of questions I guess. Feel free to post more, and speculate!
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by teajay »

it's weird, I thought this show was about a plane crashing in the ocean, and then people surviving on an island; but when reading this, it seems this show is more of a soap serie.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

: D
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by ville_j »

Here are some of my thoughts about 6x1-2 that I think are worth thinking.

When MiB "took over" Locke, MiB actually "cloned" Locke's body and the original Locke's body remained dead. When Sayid came back to life, it's the same body. So I think it maybe really is Sayid. But then again, Jacob said that if Sayid dies, bad things will happen. Could it mean that MiB could take Sayid's body and that way get past the ash, into the temple (assuming that Sayid's dead body would be in the temple). So Sayid could be MiB too xD

One thing I also paid attention to is that when Jacob appeared to Hurley, he said that "I died an hour ago". Because there is this "an hour ago", somehow it makes me speculate are the people at the temple and beach in the exact same time. When the people at the temple launch some rocket after hearing Jacob is dead, it takes some time before the people at the foot statue see it. This could of course be just a matter of interpretation how the editing should be considered.

About next thing I'm not sure because I really can't remember all, but I say it.

Jacob's cabin (in s4 ?? :D) was enclosed with black ash. Was the smoke "caged" in the Jacob's cabin, when John and Ben visited it? Then, I guess later in s5, when Ben's daughter got killed, Ben went to somewhere, and suddenly black smoke appeared to kill everyone. Did Ben somehow go to the cabin and let the smoke out by creating a gap in the circle? I really don't remember was the gap there already when John and Ben visited the cabin, if so, then I fail. Should do more re-watching I guess...

Anyways, great premiere for the final season, I can't wait to see the next episode.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

Why would Jacob tell them to bring Sayid's body to the temple is there was a chance he's die and get overtaken by MiB, though?

I'm pretty sure they are in the exact same time.

In s3 John and Ben trek to the cabin, however, they don't circle it so we can't know if the gap was there then. However, I've been thinking about something - was the circle of ash there to prevent MiB from leaving - or from entering? All my theories so far have been based on MiB being trapped in the cabin, and then finally let out, but who knows? Maybe Jacob wanted to protect himself in the cabin like the people at the temple protected themselves with ash.

Indeed. 5 days to go!
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by ville_j »

Igge wrote:Why would Jacob tell them to bring Sayid's body to the temple is there was a chance he's die and get overtaken by MiB, though?
Well if Sayid has to be alive for some reason. However I don't quite believe Sayid is Jacob nor MiB. What would be the point of killing Jacob, if he could still show up as another body?

Jacob can't kill MiB, and MiB can't kill Jacob. Ben killed Jacob, why weren't the guys with the guns able to kill MiB?
Igge wrote: All my theories so far have been based on MiB being trapped in the cabin, and then finally let out, but who knows? Maybe Jacob wanted to protect himself in the cabin like the people at the temple protected themselves with ash.
Why would Jacob need to protect himself from MiB, if MiB can't kill him?

I don't know, it's crazy..!
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by gimp »

if you remember, after sayid died and they told the no english guy that jacob was dead, he immediately had his people start making the gun powder circle around the temple, something the MiB cant penetrate, clearly they were afraid of the MiB, however, though it seems likely that the MiB went into Sayid, due to the nature of this show i dont think it's that obvious, i believe that Jacob is actually now inside Sayid :?
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

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and igge, i dont know if juliet is in fact in the alternate reality or not, but being that Miles told James that "it worked" was Juliet's last words, i kind of believe that when one dies in one reality perhaps it gives some kind of insight into the other one. if Sayid really is Sayid, maybe the next thing he will say now that he is alive is that they are also all alive in another alternate reality. this would also give a little more solace to Jack.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

Yeah. I, too, feel that MiB taking over Sayid's body is too "easy". I think there is some twist here we can't see yet.

Mm, maybe that's why they would have Sayid actually die only to come to life again - to be able to show us what Juliet saw whilst dying.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by chux »

They took Sayid to the temple because of the healing spring. That's where the Island's regenerative powers come from. The Others' Leader guy cut his hand and dipped it, and was surprised when it was still bleeding. The water was supposed to be clear but since Jacob died has turned brown. So maybe instead of Jacob's holy power being in there, maybe it's been taken over by MiB's evil power, and when Sayid was drowned in it MiB was given some kind of entry into his body.

Remember, when Sawyer and Kate gave Little Ben to Richard, he said "he'll always be one of us". Richard would have taken Ben to the spring to heal him, where Jacob was somehow fused with his body, making him "an Other" and possibly unaging, like Jacob and Richard. Or not, but my point is that whoever controls the spring is given control over the bodies of whoever is healed there. Maybe.

I'm guessing the flashsidewayses are the result of the hydrogen bomb, but in a different timeline. The survivors were displaced in time when they blew it up, so by sinking the island with the bomb they were returned to their own timeline, which what we're watching now. But the results of 1977 are that the next 2004 won't happen. Still, the survivors have been drawn together, even Desmond, and somehow Christian and Locke's knives have been lost instead. Maybe they're more important than we think, and were the whole point of the crash. One way or another, fate needs Christian, and took with him everything else in his cargo storage area.

The chains that Richard was supposedly wearing, I think, were a metaphor for Jacob's power over him. When Jacob was killed Richard was freed. Maybe now he won't be immortal anymore.

Not sure about the cabin. It was where Jacob lived, but he hasn't been there in a long time. Christian took it for a while, and he said he wasn't Jacob, maybe he's been MiB this whole time. We already know MiB can assume the form of any dead body on the Island. But then the Monster has been around for a long time, so being trapped in there at all looks unlikely. Horace built the cabin, so maybe he made the gunpowder circle himself to keep it safe. No idea.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by gimp »

some interesting theories chux. your theory about the spring giving immortality seems pretty plausible, the "chains" being a metaphor however seems kind of far-fetched to me, i think that will be explained later on. also, can it be perhaps that those who are immortal from the spring are not allowed to kill each other? Jacob and MiB claimed they had rules to abide by, i dont know if i ever remember seeing any of the others ever kill one another, maybe they can only be killed by those who have never been in the spring.

last episode spoiler: this whole Lost series has just been a piece of Hurley's schizophrenic imagination, and the whole cast works at his insane asylum :wink:
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

gimp wrote: last episode spoiler: this whole Lost series has just been a piece of Hurley's schizophrenic imagination, and the whole cast works at his insane asylum :wink:
:D

Btw, I know someone who was down in Hawaii recently and saw a couple of scenes being shot. Would you like some spoilers?
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Grace »

gimp wrote:last episode spoiler: this whole Lost series has just been a piece of Hurley's schizophrenic imagination, and the whole cast works at his insane asylum :wink:
Mum and i stopped watching a few years ago, convinced lost was some whole test to see how long they could keep people watching on little to no actual plotline, only hints and suspense :D
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

It's one of few shows that actually have a pre-determined end-date.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by gimp »

i often wonder how they're going to end this show in a way that will leave me content. there are still many questions from previous seasons that havent been answered. its a tough tasks for the writers, they would have to have had the whole thing mapped out from the beginning, you couldnt just "wing it". and igge, i would prefer not to have any spoilers, but if you do put them in here, just make it known, and i will choose not to read the thread
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Domovoy »

MiB to Richard: "It's nice to see you out of those chains". Like you can see in my earlier theory I claimed Richard came to the island on the Black Rock.
When i watched that episode, I thought MiB meant that Richard is out of the chains of immortality after the death of Jacob (some time earlier Richard said that he is immortal because of Jacob, and I thought that Jacob is like, you know, the power plant of vital force :)). BTW Richard looks kinda egyptian to me, maybe he was on the island since the statue was built. Though the theory about slavery/incarceration on the Black Rock is much more probable.
One thing I also paid attention to is that when Jacob appeared to Hurley, he said that "I died an hour ago". Because there is this "an hour ago", somehow it makes me speculate are the people at the temple and beach in the exact same time. When the people at the temple launch some rocket after hearing Jacob is dead, it takes some time before the people at the foot statue see it. This could of course be just a matter of interpretation how the editing should be considered.
Yup i'm pretty sure that all events on the island in these two episodes are in the same time.
Jacob's cabin (in s4 ?? ) was enclosed with black ash. Was the smoke "caged" in the Jacob's cabin, when John and Ben visited it? Then, I guess later in s5, when Ben's daughter got killed, Ben went to somewhere, and suddenly black smoke appeared to kill everyone. Did Ben somehow go to the cabin and let the smoke out by creating a gap in the circle? I really don't remember was the gap there already when John and Ben visited the cabin, if so, then I fail. Should do more re-watching I guess...
In s3 John and Ben trek to the cabin, however, they don't circle it so we can't know if the gap was there then. However, I've been thinking about something - was the circle of ash there to prevent MiB from leaving - or from entering? All my theories so far have been based on MiB being trapped in the cabin, and then finally let out, but who knows? Maybe Jacob wanted to protect himself in the cabin like the people at the temple protected themselves with ash.
Smoke regularly appeared on the series so even if it was trapped in the cabin it was way before 2004. On the other hand, why would Jacob hide from his rival in the cabin for the first four seasons and then eventually return his cozy quarters under the statue. The whole story about cabin feels nonsense to me.

Speaking of season 6 premiere, it was quite disappointing. Season 5 finale was great and the whole net was buzzing about how shocking the season 6 premiere would be, and what we get? The sideway reality and the confirmation of Smokey as MiB, nothing really unexpected. On the other hand there're many creepy glitches: the plane differs, the hair styles differ, Shannon "decided to stay in Australia", Bernard and the Marshal are noticeably older than they were, Sayid has Iranian passport. Looks like that:
1. in the beginning of season 5 the creators of the show had no idea what the season 6 would be about. If they had, they would put much more effort into leveling the differences between season 1 and season 6.
2. the creators of the show are really confused about how to finish it. They kinda take more and more loans to pay the previous ones: to explain the one mystery they introduce another one over and over again. And I'm affraid they would never make it up. I'm an avid fan of this show and I wish I am wrong about this, but it really seems that the creators are tired of all this business and want only to finish it, no matter how.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by ville_j »

Domovoy wrote:Smoke regularly appeared on the series so even if it was trapped in the cabin it was way before 2004. On the other hand, why would Jacob hide from his rival in the cabin for the first four seasons and then eventually return his cozy quarters under the statue. The whole story about cabin feels nonsense to me.
Indeed. That's why I think MiB was trapped there. And of course not from the start, someone trapped him there at some point. I think there was a time when we didn't see smokey for a while. I don't about the timelines because it's getting a bit confusing.
Domovoy wrote: Speaking of season 6 premiere, it was quite disappointing. Season 5 finale was great--
What?! Season 5 finale was the shittiest one ever. Nothing amazing really happened during it, then at the end we didn't even see what happened after the explosion. I was like what a fuck was this episode for, all that could have been shown in 10 minutes. And I really think in this season 6 premiere there were lots of exciting stuff.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

Ville_J wrote: Season 5 finale was the shittiest one ever. Nothing amazing really happened during it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpNJyP23e_0
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by ville_j »

Ok? Re-watching the opening scene does not make it any better. That scene is not worth 80 min season finale.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

I had goosebumps through that entire scene. One of the best scenes ever on Lost.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Domovoy »

Ville_J wrote:Season 5 finale was the shittiest one ever. Nothing amazing really happened during it, then at the end we didn't even see what happened after the explosion. I was like what a fuck was this episode for, all that could have been shown in 10 minutes. And I really think in this season 6 premiere there were lots of exciting stuff.
There was pretty much mythology in the fifth season, that's why I liked teh.
And the finale was good for three reasons:
1. The whole story was shown from another point of view, like "omg, Jacob selected all those guys when they were off island; omg, Jacob has a rival and probably not Jacob but his rival tricked Locke into moving the Island". That is much more shocking than the fact that Island is under water in the sideways reality.
2. Quite a lot of things from the past were revealed: we saw Jacob and his whereabouts, we saw the arrival of the Black Rock, we saw how Miles' father lost his hand, we saw the Jack's 1-2-3-4-5 history from the first season, we saw how Kate got her time-capsule box, etc.
3. And it was simply beautiful. The opening scene really touched me - you know, losties were in permanent action for 5 seasons and after that we saw the guy who is in charge for the island and he just lives simple, quite life: he fishes and makes carpet, and there is certain amount of wisdom in that way of living. New, "jacobish" music theme. And white ending screen was brilliant.
But of course that's completely imho :)
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by ville_j »

Yeah it's a great scene and there are other nice scenes too. However I don't think the episode was getting anywhere. At least not anywhere near I thought it would. For me the whole point of the finale was this: Do they manage to detonate the bomb? If(not), why(not)? What happens when they fail/succeed? It was just too long showing pointless things, and then not showing the most interesting one I guess. The first half could have ended when the bomb went off, then next half to show what happened, then some crazy shit twist to end the season. I was very very disappointed. When the "LOST" text came to the screen, I really thought it read "FUCK YOU". But I guess they will make it up in this season 8)
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by gimp »

in case anyone is interested, reflecting on some of these characters makes you realize how long you've been watching the show. these characters only consist of the actors who were given a main billing to the cast, in other words, the main characters.

as of the beginning of season 6 on the original time-line....

Characters alive on the island:

1. Jack
2. Sawyer
3. Kate
4. Hurley
5. Sayid?
6. Jin
7. Sun
8. Ben
9. Frank
10. Richard
11. Llana
12. Miles

Characters alive off the island:
1. Desmond
2. Walt

Characters Deceased:
1. Locke (strangled by Ben)
2. Juliet (killed by the fall from electromagnetism)
3. Charlie (gave his life to save Desmond from explosion and flooding the boat, his hand read "not Penny's boat")
4. Michael (dies while trying to slow the bomb on the ship with liquid nitrogen, convinced Desmond and Jin to leave the room, followed by Christian appearing, telling Michael that he can "go now")
5. Shannon (accidentally shot by Ana Lucia who thought she was an other, Shannon was looking for Walt; at the eulogy Sayid professed that he loved Shannon, she was barried next to her brother Boone)
6. Boone (Locke took Boone to the beach craft he saw in his dream, only to find the plane was originally used for drug trafficking, while Boone was investigating the plane it fell of the edge of the mountain top and crushed Boone)
7. Eko (after the hatch imploded, Eko was found and put in a coma for two days. he awoke with visions of his brother Yemi, driving him to the jungle where the black monster killed him. *the monster thrashes Eko in the shape of a cross*)
8. Ana Lucia (Ana Lucia wanted to kill Ben, bu couldn't bring herself to do it, so she handed the gun to Michael who claimed he would. Michael then shot Ana Lucia and Libby to find Walt)
9. Daniel (he was holding Richard at gun point 30 years in the past demanding where the bomb was, only to be killed by the current leader of the others, his mother and mother to be Eloise)
10. Libby (see 8.)
11. Charlotte (Charlotte died from the frequent time flashes that were occurring on the island after it moved. she confessed to Dan while she was dying that as a child a "crazy old man" had warned her she'd die this way, the "crazy old man" being Daniel warning her from the future)
12. Nikki (Nikki and Paulo both die from an attack of Medusa Spiders that paralyze the body for 8 hours, this happened in a constant exchange of love and betrayal over greed for diamonds outside of the island. Nikki and Paulo were ironically buried alive right next to each other, being mistaken as dead instead of paralyzed)
13. Paulo (see 12.)

Unknown (alive or dead?):
1. Claire (Claire was last known to have veered off in the middle of the night after seeing visions of her father holding Aaron and then walking off into the jungle, when Sawyer awoke he found the baby but did not ever find Claire)
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by chux »

gimp wrote:...the "chains" being a metaphor however seems kind of far-fetched to me, i think that will be explained later on.
Maybe, but I don't really buy the theory about the real chains in the Black Rock. First off Richard is quite clearly white American, so he's very unlikely to have been a slave. He could have been on the crew, maybe captain or first mate, but then the relevance of the chains disappears. It seems more likely to me that the 'chains' are either the job as Jacob's right hand man, or the immortality itself, as now he's free of both.

Oh, and about the cabin, I'm thinking the circle of gunpowder was to keep the cabin itself safe, not to keep the monster in or out. It was so Ben, Richard or anyone else could be sure the man they talk to inside is Jacob, and not MiB posing as Jacob. When Locke went to the cabin and found Christian and Claire in there, all we know is that Jacob wasn't there, not why Christian was. It may be that the circle had already been broken and Smokey was being Christian to fool Locke into moving the island. By doing that he made Ben and eventually Locke leave the island, caused Locke to die and then be brought back so he could use his body for the loophole.

As we know, MiB can appear to be anyone from John Locke to a Medusa spider, as long as it has a dead body to replicate. Which is why I'm thinking Smokey was posing as Jacob when he appeared to Hurley, and told him to take the dying Sayid to the Temple so he had a way in. He knew the spring had been contaminated and that they would kill Sayid in it, creating a body for MiB to 'steal' as entry. So tonight (or whenever it airs where you guys are) we'll be seeing 'Man In Black In Sayid' waking up in the Temple and causing some trouble for Dogen, Mr No-English.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

chux wrote: Maybe, but I don't really buy the theory about the real chains in the Black Rock. First off Richard is quite clearly white American, so he's very unlikely to have been a slave. He could have been on the crew, maybe captain or first mate, but then the relevance of the chains disappears. It seems more likely to me that the 'chains' are either the job as Jacob's right hand man, or the immortality itself, as now he's free of both.
I wouldn't say he's necessarily American? What gave you that impression?
chux wrote: Oh, and about the cabin, I'm thinking the circle of gunpowder was to keep the cabin itself safe, not to keep the monster in or out. It was so Ben, Richard or anyone else could be sure the man they talk to inside is Jacob, and not MiB posing as Jacob. When Locke went to the cabin and found Christian and Claire in there, all we know is that Jacob wasn't there, not why Christian was. It may be that the circle had already been broken and Smokey was being Christian to fool Locke into moving the island. By doing that he made Ben and eventually Locke leave the island, caused Locke to die and then be brought back so he could use his body for the loophole.
Yeah, I guess it's impossible to tell whether MiB was ever trapped in the cabin or not. It's also impossible to know whether Jacob has ever been to the cabin or not.

Btw, speaking of the ash.. There have been a couple of, seemingly random(?), yet still major "burnings" in Lost. For instance, both the cabin and Jacob were set on fire in The Incident. Burning something turns it into ash.. Hmm..
chux wrote: As we know, MiB can appear to be anyone from John Locke to a Medusa spider, as long as it has a dead body to replicate. Which is why I'm thinking Smokey was posing as Jacob when he appeared to Hurley, and told him to take the dying Sayid to the Temple so he had a way in. He knew the spring had been contaminated and that they would kill Sayid in it, creating a body for MiB to 'steal' as entry. So tonight (or whenever it airs where you guys are) we'll be seeing 'Man In Black In Sayid' waking up in the Temple and causing some trouble for Dogen, Mr No-English.
That's a really nice theory! The thought of Jacob actually being MiB hadn't occurred to me yet. I feel kinda stupid for missing that. 8)

I wouldn't be surprised if you're right about that!
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

Some brainstorming with Domovoy:

Code: Select all

[19:25:19] <domi[id]> that jacob's cabin is really tricky. i think jacob lived there but left it short after first locke's visit, and since then the cabin was under smokey's control and it's shifting through space was completely smokey's business
[19:25:57] <igge> yeah
[19:26:12] <igge> but was smokey trapped in the cabin, or was the ash there to prevent him from entering?
[19:26:41] <domi[id]> that ash makes no sense at all
[19:26:57] <domi[id]> but i trend to second option
[19:27:24] <igge> im not sure where i stand
[19:28:18] <domi[id]> the idea that cabin was like jail for smokey is really good and non-trivial but how then we saw smokey so many times throughout the series
[19:30:07] <igge> well, it could have been used as a prison before the 815ers came to the island
[19:30:28] <igge> Hmm!
[19:30:37] <igge> remember the "help me" locke heard in the cabin?
[19:30:42] <domi[id]> yup
[19:30:50] <igge> if that was mib trapped in the cabin
[19:30:55] <igge> then   hmm
[19:31:00] <igge> you know when locke was shot
[19:31:03] <igge> and walt came
[19:31:10] <igge> maybe walt told locke to break the ash?!
[19:31:18] <domi[id]> :o
[19:31:36] <domi[id]> you really just blown my head off
[19:31:38] <domi[id]> =)
[19:31:54] <igge> me too :D

[19:38:28] <domi[id]> btw there're two other character's involved with jacob's whereabouts: ilana and richard.
[19:38:28] <domi[id]> and richard walked straight to the statue when flocke asked to see jacob. that means that:
[19:38:28] <domi[id]> 1. richard is well-acknowledged where jacob lives
[19:38:28] <domi[id]> 2. richard shares that info with current leader
[19:38:28] <domi[id]> in turn it means that richard shared that info with ben when ben was the leader.
[19:38:39] <domi[id]> *characters
[19:38:57] <domi[id]> and ben brought locke to cabin
[19:39:25] <igge> richard might have fooled ben though
[19:39:46] <igge> and what about Dogen? I'm guessing he knows a lot about jacob as well
[19:40:25] <domi[id]> sure he does but we don't know a lot about dogen himself :)
[19:40:40] <igge> it's kinda hard to know who has the most power though - jacob > dogen/richard > current "leader" (eg ben) etc?
[19:40:44] <igge> hehe, true
[19:41:31] <domi[id]> richard might have fooled ben but there's ilana also and she was pretty sure than jacob lives in cabin
[19:41:59] <domi[id]> and it seems that jacob told ilana where to find him by himself
[19:42:17] <igge> yeah
[19:42:18] <igge> hmm
[19:42:20] <igge> but remember
[19:42:26] <igge> ilana went to the cabin first
[19:42:44] <igge> which means that when jacob visited her, which was not too long ago(?), he probably lived in the cabin
[19:43:59] <domi[id]> yup, that's what i'm saying. not sure about "too long ago", no info about that at all
[19:44:48] <igge> mm
[19:45:04] <igge> but illana says jacob hasnt been in the cabin for a long time
[19:45:14] <igge> and i'm guessing a "long" time for jacob isn't a matter of months
[19:46:18] <domi[id]> yup, but when she said that, 3 years passed since 815's crash
[19:46:31] <igge> mm
[19:46:44] <igge> perhaps ilana doesn't age, just like richard?
[19:46:59] <igge> so maybe she was a hundred years old in the hospital, when jacob visited ehr+
[19:47:44] <domi[id]> yeah, that is possible and then 3 years isn't "long time" either
[19:48:16] <igge> mm
[19:48:21] <igge> gah, so many unknown factors
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Grace »

MiB can now be Jacob, because Jacob was stabbed to death by Ben, MiB imitates dead people (eg. Locke.)

i did some reading. :)
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by chux »

Igge wrote:
chux wrote:Maybe, but I don't really buy the theory about the real chains in the Black Rock. First off Richard is quite clearly white American, so he's very unlikely to have been a slave. He could have been on the crew, maybe captain or first mate, but then the relevance of the chains disappears. It seems more likely to me that the 'chains' are either the job as Jacob's right hand man, or the immortality itself, as now he's free of both.
I wouldn't say he's necessarily American? What gave you that impression?
The look and the accent. I've just looked him up, he's from New York (which explains his accent) but is of Cuban and Catalan descent. I'm no expert about slavery, but I haven't heard of Spanish people being a major slave community. Either way I'd have just thought a black guy would have made a much more obvious slave.
Igge wrote:
chux wrote:Oh, and about the cabin, I'm thinking the circle of gunpowder was to keep the cabin itself safe, not to keep the monster in or out. It was so Ben, Richard or anyone else could be sure the man they talk to inside is Jacob, and not MiB posing as Jacob. When Locke went to the cabin and found Christian and Claire in there, all we know is that Jacob wasn't there, not why Christian was. It may be that the circle had already been broken and Smokey was being Christian to fool Locke into moving the island. By doing that he made Ben and eventually Locke leave the island, caused Locke to die and then be brought back so he could use his body for the loophole.
Yeah, I guess it's impossible to tell whether MiB was ever trapped in the cabin or not. It's also impossible to know whether Jacob has ever been to the cabin or not.
Ilana's team went straight to the cabin, and were shocked to see the circle broken. So it was either to keep the monster in or out. Being that the monster ate the pilot right after the crash, we know nothing the Survivors did freed the monster. If they did break the circle, it could only mean they let the monster in, not out. It may not have been the Survivors, but no one else on the Island would be stupid (or plain ignorant) enough to break a security measure like that, especially when the cabin was always hidden so well from anyone other than Ben. Speaking of Ben, he knew the cabin as Jacob's house, or as he lives in the statue I guess the cabin is more like his office. Why would he protect his cabin but not the statue? Because the cabin is where the leader (and Richard) goes to see him. And it's not so much to protect the leader, the monster could get him anytime, so the circle can only be to keep the cabin pure. That makes me think the circle wasn't so much for protection, but as a safeguard to ensure whoever is inside is definitely not the MiB. Without that circle, MiB could pose as anyone (ie, Christian) and give false orders...maybe that part isn't as hypothetical as intended.

We know Horace built a cabin for him and his wife as a kind of getaway. He may have laid the circle himself to protect it because it's outside the sonic fence. But then we saw his life in 1977 and he didn't really mention it at all. He's an alternative theory, I jut don't really think it's a very good one.

Of course, I know nothing. I've kind of convinced myself that's what happened, but I have no idea at all if any of it is true or not. Three more hours and we might learn a bit more!
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

chux wrote:The look and the accent. I've just looked him up, he's from New York (which explains his accent) but is of Cuban and Catalan descent. I'm no expert about slavery, but I haven't heard of Spanish people being a major slave community. Either way I'd have just thought a black guy would have made a much more obvious slave.
Maybe he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time? :) I see what you mean, but I also feel like that wouldn't stop the writers from saying he was a slave. since they have barely given him any back story yet(?), I guess he could be anything.
Igge wrote:Oh, and about the cabin, I'm thinking the circle of gunpowder was to keep the cabin itself safe, not to keep the monster in or out. It was so Ben, Richard or anyone else could be sure the man they talk to inside is Jacob, and not MiB posing as Jacob. When Locke went to the cabin and found Christian and Claire in there, all we know is that Jacob wasn't there, not why Christian was. It may be that the circle had already been broken and Smokey was being Christian to fool Locke into moving the island. By doing that he made Ben and eventually Locke leave the island, caused Locke to die and then be brought back so he could use his body for the loophole.
Ilana's team went straight to the cabin, and were shocked to see the circle broken. So it was either to keep the monster in or out. Being that the monster ate the pilot right after the crash, we know nothing the Survivors did freed the monster. If they did break the circle, it could only mean they let the monster in, not out. It may not have been the Survivors, but no one else on the Island would be stupid (or plain ignorant) enough to break a security measure like that, especially when the cabin was always hidden so well from anyone other than Ben. Speaking of Ben, he knew the cabin as Jacob's house, or as he lives in the statue I guess the cabin is more like his office. Why would he protect his cabin but not the statue? Because the cabin is where the leader (and Richard) goes to see him. And it's not so much to protect the leader, the monster could get him anytime, so the circle can only be to keep the cabin pure. That makes me think the circle wasn't so much for protection, but as a safeguard to ensure whoever is inside is definitely not the MiB. Without that circle, MiB could pose as anyone (ie, Christian) and give false orders...maybe that part isn't as hypothetical as intended.

We know Horace built a cabin for him and his wife as a kind of getaway. He may have laid the circle himself to protect it because it's outside the sonic fence. But then we saw his life in 1977 and he didn't really mention it at all. He's an alternative theory, I jut don't really think it's a very good one.

Of course, I know nothing. I've kind of convinced myself that's what happened, but I have no idea at all if any of it is true or not. Three more hours and we might learn a bit more![/quote]
I actually like both of your theories. I don't see how Horace not mentioning the ash in '77 would prevent him from knowing of it. It's obvious he and Richard have spoken several times before, and Richard might have mentioned it then.

But like you said, I guess we'll just have to keep watching.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

Ok, so if MiB = Fake Locke = Flocke, I assume we just saw Flaire?

I love how we now have Dogen to answer questions about Jacob/MiB. Sadly, we can't be sure he's telling the truth I guess.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Domovoy »

As we know, MiB can appear to be anyone from John Locke to a Medusa spider, as long as it has a dead body to replicate. Which is why I'm thinking Smokey was posing as Jacob when he appeared to Hurley, and told him to take the dying Sayid to the Temple so he had a way in. He knew the spring had been contaminated and that they would kill Sayid in it, creating a body for MiB to 'steal' as entry. So tonight (or whenever it airs where you guys are) we'll be seeing 'Man In Black In Sayid' waking up in the Temple and causing some trouble for Dogen, Mr No-English.
If it was MiB posing as Jacob, why did he tell Hurley he is dead? The only know consequence of that are the massive defensive measures around temple against MiB. If MiB was posing as Jacob, he would rather say he is alive (as he did in case of Locke).
But it still seams possible that he possesses Sayid's body.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Grace »

Igge wrote:Ok, so if MiB = Fake Locke = Flocke, I assume we just saw Flaire?

I love how we now have Dogen to answer questions about Jacob/MiB. Sadly, we can't be sure he's telling the truth I guess.
well i presume Claire was re-introduced in this episode?

Claire was never announced dead, only dissapeared, no?


Edit: Lets assume claire is dead. from what i read, MiB lured claire into the jungle in season 3? MiB doesn't always kill those he lures (ie. Ben.) -> but usually he does.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by gimp »

i got the impression that Sayid is still in fact Sayid, remember Dogen said that a blackness was "spreading" in Sayid. also, something isnt adding up, when MiB took over Locke, there were two Lockes, the real dead Locke and the clone. there is no clone for Sayid, its still the same body. i dont think what claire and sayid have is the same thing that happened to Locke, i dont think they are the MiB, maybe just controlled by him in some other fashion. for all we know MiB is still in Locke, assuming that MiB can not be in multiple bodies at the same time.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

Domovoy wrote:If it was MiB posing as Jacob, why did he tell Hurley he is dead? The only know consequence of that are the massive defensive measures around temple against MiB. If MiB was posing as Jacob, he would rather say he is alive (as he did in case of Locke).
But it still seams possible that he possesses Sayid's body.
Still, telling Hurley that Sayid was dead led to Sayid being brought to the temple. If he is in fact MiB, then MiB is now inside the walls of the temple, past the ash.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Domovoy »

Still, telling Hurley that Sayid was dead led to Sayid being brought to the temple. If he is in fact MiB, then MiB is now inside the walls of the temple, past the ash.
Sayid was brought to the temple because Jacob asked Hurley to. And Hurley agreed just because that is Hurley, he would listed to Jacob even if he didn't mention his death. But Jacob did mention his death (and warned the templers in that way), and that makes me think he was true Jacob.

I liked the recent episode more than premiere.
There is an insteresting moment with electricity which reminds me that Jacob in season 3 greatly disliked Locke's flashlight, while Jacob in seson 5 finale felt himself quite comfortable in the modern world full of various electric devices.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

You mean the electricity strenthens the fact that the person in the cabin, back in season 3, actually was MiB? I guess you're right.

And yeah, was a nice episode. Perhaps we'll finally get some answers now that we have Dogen. 8)
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by chux »

Domovoy wrote:If it was MiB posing as Jacob, why did he tell Hurley he is dead? The only know consequence of that are the massive defensive measures around temple against MiB. If MiB was posing as Jacob, he would rather say he is alive (as he did in case of Locke).
But it still seams possible that he possesses Sayid's body.
He said he was dead because Hurley can see dead people but no one else can. When Hurley called Jin to come back, "Jacob" told him that he wouldn't be able to see him. Actually he would have been able to. He had to make sure he was only seen by one person because everyone else had met him at other points. If Jin had come back he could have recognised him as the guest at his wedding. It would have raised unnecessary questions that would get in the way of Hurley taking the lead and bringing Sayid to the Temple.
gimp wrote:i got the impression that Sayid is still in fact Sayid, remember Dogen said that a blackness was "spreading" in Sayid. also, something isnt adding up, when MiB took over Locke, there were two Lockes, the real dead Locke and the clone. there is no clone for Sayid, its still the same body. i dont think what claire and sayid have is the same thing that happened to Locke, i dont think they are the MiB, maybe just controlled by him in some other fashion. for all we know MiB is still in Locke, assuming that MiB can not be in multiple bodies at the same time.
Yeah, I think you're right. What I'd said before was just a theory, and one I didn't really like much because of that. MiB clones people, he doesn't reanimate bodies. But somehow he's taken over the spring that resurrected Sayid and has some kind of presence in him. And Claire, somehow. I don't really get that one, the spring would have still been clear when she disappeared. Maybe MiB likes to infect live people so he can control them later instead of killing them? Not sure why he'd care though.

And I'm not really sure why Doken would poison Sayid, unless the 'cure' for the infection is death. Not a very good cure if you ask me.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Igge »

chux wrote:And I'm not really sure why Doken would poison Sayid, unless the 'cure' for the infection is death. Not a very good cure if you ask me.
Well, I guess they either want to

a) Kill sayid so that he cannot be used anymore, or
b) kill the "thing" that's taking over sayid.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by chux »

Doken didn't want Jack to take the poison, so presumably it would kill him. Unless it's a magic poison that kills the infection first, and the human only if there's no infection, it would kill Sayid too. Which is probably the plan, seeing as they didn't seem to care too much that Sayid was dead the first time around.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by gimp »

just realized something the other day. remember in the most recent episode when sawyer escaped, and kate and jin went to look for him with the two other guards following? well one of those guards asked kate, "dont you remember me?". the man who asked that once held kate captive at the dharma initiative in 1977. it would be safe to assume that somehow the people at the temple now also once existed in the dharma initiative. come to think it, dogen looks a lot like mile's father, (leader of the dharma initiative.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by Domovoy »

Nope. That guy stood guard over Karl (Alex' boyfriend) on the hydra island in 2004, and Alex, Kate and Sawyer tricked him and rescued Karl. Surely that guy later had some punishment for failing his duty, that's why he is kinda angry on losties.
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Re: TV Show: Lost (dont read if you dont want spoilers)

Post by chux »

It is quite strange that one of Ben's others and Cindy (the hostess from 815) are now Temple staff. How do people end up there? Maybe they're guides, to make sure certain people end up on the Island? Cindy crashed with the tail section, went missing while they were all moving Sawyer on a stretcher, then showed up with the Others while Jack was in a cage. Now she's with Doken. All she's said about how she ended up with the Others is that "it's not that simple". Sounds like there's a lot Cindy isn't telling us.
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