are you a christian?

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:00

yes the bible is against homosexuals.
the diffrence is, if i go to pakistan and say: i'm a christian!
i will be dead.
when a moslim tells me that he's a moslim, i won't hurt him.

jaytea · Post by **jaytea** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:03

Henkjan wrote:the bible says that you have to take good care of your body.
so smoking weed and stuff like that is a sin. so drinking too mutch alsow is a sin. your body is made by god.. you have to take good care of it
BTW: i can prove that god accists. it's just kinda hard to do, cause english is not my main language.. i'm dutch

smoking weed is not as bad for your health as youd think

as for proving god exists. impossible. im sure we've all read some very entertaining stories that try to prove his existence.. but theres nothing concrete to go by. its your BELIEF, its NOT TRUE FOR EVERYONE. he may be real to you, so real that your brain simply cannot understand why people here on mopolauta are denying it. well we think the same about your claim. live with it

niN · Post by **niN** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:04

why would they kill you?
and are You against homosexualls just because the bible is?

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:04

i'm not saying i can't live with it

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:06

niN wrote:why would they kill you?
and are You against homosexualls just because the bible is?

no, i'm not.

niN · Post by **niN** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:06

Henkjan wrote:
niN wrote:why would they kill you?
and are You against homosexualls just because the bible is?
no, i'm not.

Ok. but then you are a "sinder" arn't you?

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:08

no... you are a sinner when you have sex with a male when you are a male yourself.

niN · Post by **niN** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:09

But you disagree with the bible on surtain things right?

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:10

Post by **SveinR** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:10

Henkjan wrote:where did the big bang come from? first there was nothing, and then suddenly there was a big bang?

Asking where the Big Bang came from is the same question as asking where God came from. So, that is irrelevant.

Sierra wrote:Science cannot disprove religion. And religion cannot disprove science. They are independent, irreconcilable entities.

Indeed. Religion to me are about beliefs, belief in a higher power. Technicalities about describing how the Earth came into being is not really relevant, as people wrote down what they knew, and simply could not have known the science we know (or, think we know), today.

The only relevant thing, to me, is the actual belief.

niN · Post by **niN** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:12

Henkjan wrote:nope

well.. I'm lost, you said that the bible have a thing against homosexualls and then you said you don't, thats disagreeing to me...

jaytea · Post by **jaytea** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:14

Henkjan wrote:nope

then you are a zombie, you must be a pretty boring person. you've now labeled yourself as blind follower of the bible and i truly believe that if there is some higher power.. some 'god'.. that if and when you encounter him in death he will have no respect for your soul for being such a blind follower.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:19

i'm a christian, tell me, that i can't go to the bios with my girlfriend. that i can't have fun without drinking bear. that i have to have sex befor i get married.
i am the most fun person of my school. people like me.

niN · Post by **niN** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:19

Let me ask you two questions to you Henkjan:
1. If god asks you to jump off a cliff would you do it?
2. If I asked you to jump off a cliff would you do it?

EDIT* I don't think you are a "boring" person, I've never said so, in fact I have great respect for you for not backing out and sticking to what you believe in.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:22

if god would ask me, i would do it.
if Jezus came to earth and asked me to do for him what he did for me
i would do it.

niN · Post by **niN** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:23

and the second question?
Would you do it if I asked you?

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:26

nothing.
but i don't have to do it for him.
he died for me so my sins could be forgiven.

jaytea · Post by **jaytea** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:28

Henkjan wrote:i'm a christian, tell me, that i can't go to the bios with my girlfriend. that i can't have fun without drinking bear. that i have to have sex befor i get married.
i am the most fun person of my school. people like me.

but do YOU like you? do you feel you have chosen a path that you truly believe? do you listen to everything in the bible because its written in the bible, or because deep down you know it to be an acceptable truth?

i say to hell with the bible, let ppl do what they know in their heart to be true. let them live the life they were meant to, then when they die, let god assess if they were truly good people. just because you follow the bible doesnt mean youre a good person. edit: similarly, just because you commit sins doesnt mean youre a bad person

i know it sounds cliche, but im saying follow your heart. you cant escape who you are, even if you hide behind religion

niN · Post by **niN** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:29

Ok. I expected that awnser

. But if god now do exist, think of all the bad things he has done. All the innosent lives, all the bad things thats him right? I know ... "God works in a strange way" right? lol...

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:30

being a good person doesn't get you in heaven.
that's what the bible says.
if you don't believe in god and in Jezus and that he give his live for you, you won't go to heaven. if you truly believe this then there is a place for you. WHEN you truly believe this, your life will change.
EDIT:
and if you are not with god, you are with the devil.
the devil excists alsow.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:32

if you follow the narrow way with god, you will folow the right way.

Post by **SveinR** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:33

What's interesting is that it can be read, from some of Paulus's writings, that you don't even need to believe to reach salvation and get into heaven. That simply all human beings will achieve salvation because of what Jesus did.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:52

i think this: in everyones life there will be a moment that he will be touched by god. if you then say no, he will say no when you die.
well atleast you can't say that you never heard anything of god.
but still my point is. (for all the people that think i'm boring and live a terrible life with rules and stuff like that, i don't. i do nothing rather then live by the word of God. i am unhappy when i fail in this.) why not give it a try? if you read the bible and pud all the peaces together, you will feel the same. i can't explain my happyness as a christian. my goal is to live as Jezus, because that is what he wants from me. people said, crussivy him! and still he did not sin. befor he died he said: it's done.
he came to earth to die for you. when you read this, please be smart eanoth to do something with it. because i would be glad to be with you in heaven

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 17:02

SveinR wrote:What's interesting is that it can be read, from some of Paulus's writings, that you don't even need to believe to reach salvation and get into heaven. That simply all human beings will achieve salvation because of what Jesus did.

yeah if you believe in him. and if you ask him to forgive your sins.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 17:05

jaytea wrote:
Henkjan wrote:i'm a christian, tell me, that i can't go to the bios with my girlfriend. that i can't have fun without drinking bear. that i have to have sex befor i get married.
i am the most fun person of my school. people like me.
but do YOU like you? do you feel you have chosen a path that you truly believe? do you listen to everything in the bible because its written in the bible, or because deep down you know it to be an acceptable truth?

i say to hell with the bible, let ppl do what they know in their heart to be true. let them live the life they were meant to, then when they die, let god assess if they were truly good people. just because you follow the bible doesnt mean youre a good person. edit: similarly, just because you commit sins doesnt mean youre a bad person

i know it sounds cliche, but im saying follow your heart. you cant escape who you are, even if you hide behind religion

i love my life. i love god. i do what says in the bible because i know that it's what god wants from me.

milagros · Post by **milagros** » 10 Mar 2006, 17:19

might be interest to see if those who believe in god are better in elma

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 17:23

hehe no i'm not

i'm just someone who played elma and desided to spread the word of god on the internet.

niN · Post by **niN** » 10 Mar 2006, 17:31

Is there absolutley nothing that you miss that the bible tells you not to do(I don't know if there is anything it does forbidd)? please be honest

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 17:42

NOTHING. not after i truly got the holy spirit.
when you say yes to God, your old life get barried. and your new life will be with God. then.. you want nothing more then to do what the god wants you to do. but we are humans.. god will not hate you if you sin.
that's why he gave his son to die for your sins.
he loves you..

niN · Post by **niN** » 10 Mar 2006, 17:47

Ok, good attitude there!

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 17:48

it's the truth.

jaytea · Post by **jaytea** » 10 Mar 2006, 17:49

enough of this ok. your belief: you must follow the bible, and believe that jesus is your god to go to heaven. my belief: you must be a genuine person, both to yourself and others, must love and believe in yourself so that you may lead a comfortable life. i dont particularly believe in heaven or hell, but i do think your soul will be at peace if you are at peace with yourself

your belief isnt more correct than mine, its just what works for you

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 17:51

then how can i explain.. the way he helps me? what i ask him.. he gives me.
I CANNOT SAY HE DIDN'T!!!!!!!
i must believe. everything i asked him he gave me.
and i am not talking about money or anything.
i am rich in love.. i am rich in god's love.
i am rich in my love for other people.. i just want other people to go with my in heaven

Post by **SveinR** » 10 Mar 2006, 18:05

Henkjan wrote:
SveinR wrote:What's interesting is that it can be read, from some of Paulus's writings, that you don't even need to believe to reach salvation and get into heaven. That simply all human beings will achieve salvation because of what Jesus did.
yeah if you believe in him. and if you ask him to forgive your sins.

You misunderstood me. It can be read from his writings that you don't actually have to believe in order to be accepted into heaven. The fact that you're a human being would be enough in itself.

But I suspect Paulus (hmm maybe it's Paul in English..) has a controversial view in this matter.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 18:10

you do have to believe in god and his son and that he gave his life for your sin to get into heaven. if you don't believe in god,
you won't go to heaven. it is written in the bible.. can you show me where paules wrote that?
i will say again: if you are not with god, then you are with the devil.
it's allsow written and said by jezus: you can't get to heaven, then true me.
and if you are with the devil you won't go to heaven.
if your saying you don't need to believe to go to heaven, then everyone would go to heaven and no one to hell.

Lukazz · Post by **Lukazz** » 10 Mar 2006, 18:16

and i have to believe that i get into heaven when i believ in god? lol that's stupid

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 18:18

if you believe in god, then will you not believe his word?

jaytea · Post by **jaytea** » 10 Mar 2006, 18:23

Lukazz wrote:and i have to believe that i get into heaven when i believ in god? lol that's stupid

thats just a christian belief. its not at all correct, no matter what Henkjan says, and no matter how many times he says it. in fact Henkjan, its extremely ignorant to make that claim after what ive said in my post. obviously the good lord didnt grace you with a large amount of intelligence. lol, i bet youre going to reply to this post saying 'but its true! its written in the bible, if you dont believe in god then you dont go to heaven! youre with the devil' but lets not forget that us atheists dont believe in the bible. we (i at least) believe in a healthy spiritual life that doesnt turn us into fanatics like you. if you have sense of being owned, youd stop all this nonsense now and walk away with your dignity. if you want to leave this thread without it, that can also be arranged

simon_labroue · Post by **simon_labroue** » 10 Mar 2006, 18:27

Aot of people today are agnostic, atheists or pagans. I think this is because they understood, like Robert Anton Wilson sais, that "When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases".

I think that, like was said in the movie Flight of the Phoenix, "Spirituality is not religion. Religion divides people. Belief in something unites them."

Albert Einstein said "The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism."

This reflect my way of thinking about these kind of issues. You know, organised religions like christianism are sometimes the source of great sorrow. Just think of the crusades... Believers trust dogma, will fight for their beliefs if necessary, and will trust their political or religious leaders It's that "anestesia of unicity" thing....

"Culture is not your friend. If you define yourself as a member of a group, of any group, know that this is a gross simplification, and that everything about you that is interesting and unique is betrayed by defining yourself in that way. These gross simplifications betray humanity, betray uniqueness, make sane politics impossible. What we have to do is get back to the reality of the individual identity. What we need to celebrate is the individual.

Any change and any system that you can think of is always ultimately traceable to one unit in a system undergoing a phase state change of some sort. There are no group decisions. Those things come later. The genius of creativity and of initiation of activity always lies with the individual. And itâ€™s very interesting that this is what the psychedelics address. They address us uniquely as individuals. If we let the scales of cultural values fall from our eyes, what is there, beyond ideology?

In my humble opinion, ideology is only going to get in your way. Forget ideologies. They betray, they limit, they lead us tray. Just deal with the raw data and trust yourself. Inform yourself (that means to transcend and to mistrust ideology). Go for direct experience. What do you think when you face the waterfall, what do you think when etcâ€¦ Everything else is unconfirmable rumors, useless, probably lies.

Death itself is so far beyond ordinary experience.
Death is the great mystery around which religions are built."
(Terence McKenna)

"Nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so." (Shakespeare)

"The basic goal is to operate your own mind. Think for yourself." (Dr. Timothy Leary)

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 18:49

if you don't want to hear what i say, then don't. if you are interested then read on. it's all your own choice.

simon_labroue · Post by **simon_labroue** » 10 Mar 2006, 18:52

Henkjan wrote:smoking weed and stuff like that is a sin

Now you just went too far. Go and ask your God why he did put these plants in nature, tell me?

If you could just bring back here one scientific truth about the possible harm of a wise use of natural entheogenic substances (like Salvia divinorum), then let me know.

http://zworqy.com/up/files/Fantasy.jpg

Memphis · Post by **Memphis** » 10 Mar 2006, 19:14

shit jaytea don't be stupid man smoking weed is almost as bad for u as any other drug like coke or haroine. I am in a police reserves camp and they gave us the low down on it. so don't say it's not bad for u. I hate it when peeps say it's natural so it's good for u, fucking woods is natural but does that mean that when u start a fire and breath in the smoke from that that's good for u or natural? only reason i think im against homosexuals is that they usually don't have 1 partner in sexual intercorse they have multipul at same time. anyway Henkjan u can't try to convince people about a religion as uve now noticed cause seems like everyone is against u and ur thoughts. God just has to do something for the person to make them believe or just go through enough tough times to see.

teajay · Post by **teajay** » 10 Mar 2006, 19:16

Henkjan, there's a major difference between you and me. You have put your faith in a god. A god that leads you, advises you and will bring salvation. That's a pretty safe world. Whatever happens to you, it doesn't mind, because you have dedicated yourself to god. You lead your life with advise of god. What's more, you lead your life with rules of god. You live in a world where there's a certain quanitity of people that don't live their lifes like they should, you believe. You feel pity for them, so you try to help them.

Me. I have put my faith in myself. I am a human. I live for a certain amount of time, depending how healthy I live, where I live and how the other people around me live. I can't give myself over to god. I simply don't believe in his spiritual force, nor his existance. I can't live according to the rules and with the advise of the bible, because I simply don't agree with some of it. So what I do, I extract all advise that I believe is good for me, and will live with that. But I stay open minded for newer, other advises. Whenever something goes wrong with me, it's or my own fault, or the guilt lies upon other individuals, creatures or objects. Whenever it's my own fault, I feel responsible for it, and try to do better.

And that's what I'm missing in your religion: responsibility. Now you ofcourse try to pursue us to believe in god. But, let me give you this advise: if god really exists, then he will make contact with every single individual to invite him/her for the religion. Why would you then still try to persuade non-believers who won't believe that god exist until he comes to prove?

Post by **SveinR** » 10 Mar 2006, 19:22

Memphis wrote:shit jaytea don't be stupid man smoking weed is almost as bad for u as any other drug like coke or haroine. I am in a police reserves camp and they gave us the low down on it. so don't say it's not bad for u.

You shouldn't trust what the police says about those things. I don't really know much about it myself, but many scientists say that marijuana is one of the least dangerous drugs, that tobacco is worse and that alcohol is far worse.

Memphis wrote: only reason i think im against homosexuals is that they usually don't have 1 partner in sexual intercorse they have multipul at same time.

lol

simon_labroue · Post by **simon_labroue** » 10 Mar 2006, 19:24

Memphis wrote:smoking weed is almost as bad for u as any other drug like coke or heroine

Aren't you a little army-biased?

I suggest you to visit Erowid, "a member-supported organization providing access to reliable, non-judgmental information about psychoactive plants and chemicals and related issues."

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 19:52

simon_labroue wrote:
Henkjan wrote:smoking weed and stuff like that is a sin
Now you just went too far. Go and ask your God why he did put these plants in nature, tell me?

If you could just bring back here one scientific truth about the possible harm of a wise use of natural entheogenic substances (like Salvia divinorum), then let me know.

http://zworqy.com/up/files/Fantasy.jpg

well, he pud the plants on the world to watch them and enjoy them. not to smoke them.

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 20:01

tijsjoris wrote:Henkjan, there's a major difference between you and me. You have put your faith in a god. A god that leads you, advises you and will bring salvation. That's a pretty safe world. Whatever happens to you, it doesn't mind, because you have dedicated yourself to god. You lead your life with advise of god. What's more, you lead your life with rules of god. You live in a world where there's a certain quanitity of people that don't live their lifes like they should, you believe. You feel pity for them, so you try to help them.

Me. I have put my faith in myself. I am a human. I live for a certain amount of time, depending how healthy I live, where I live and how the other people around me live. I can't give myself over to god. I simply don't believe in his spiritual force, nor his existance. I can't live according to the rules and with the advise of the bible, because I simply don't agree with some of it. So what I do, I extract all advise that I believe is good for me, and will live with that. But I stay open minded for newer, other advises. Whenever something goes wrong with me, it's or my own fault, or the guilt lies upon other individuals, creatures or objects. Whenever it's my own fault, I feel responsible for it, and try to do better.

And that's what I'm missing in your religion: responsibility. Now you ofcourse try to pursue us to believe in god. But, let me give you this advise: if god really exists, then he will make contact with every single individual to invite him/her for the religion. Why would you then still try to persuade non-believers who won't believe that god exist until he comes to prove?

god just wants everyone to know about him.
you know.. there are people that have never heard of god..
right now there is an organisation translating the bible in ALL the languages.
it's what god wants me to do. he wants me to spread the word..
i cannot do else then that. even if it won't work, i will try.
and even if i didn't do it, it doesn't matter. he will still love me.
what i can't explain is that i feel god alsow, i feel him inside me. when i go to church, when i listen to religious music.. i can feel it in my spine.
it's a feeling you can't discribe.. happyness.. thankfull..
you cannot feel what i feel.. unless you go to church and try to understand us christians, or read the bible. or do both, both are good.
but that's what i feel.. i would give you my feeling if i could.
but atleast you have heard of god.

simon_labroue · Post by **simon_labroue** » 10 Mar 2006, 20:04

he put the plants on the world for us to watch and to enjoy them. not to smoke them.

He has included the 1-Trans-delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol molecule in the Cannabis sativa to seduce us, and he wants us not to be tempted? I'm just a normal human, don't ask me too much

bye bye

Henkjan · Post by **Henkjan** » 10 Mar 2006, 20:06

yeah, that's what he wants.
i don't smoke weed, i can be happy and have fun without it.

simon_labroue · Post by **simon_labroue** » 10 Mar 2006, 20:09

what about the need to experience new realities? are you waiting for the dying process to do so?

if so, I understand and I respect you, but I hope you can respect and understand me for not doing this