Aliens

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Aliens

have visited Earth
5
12%
exist
30
71%
do not exist
7
17%
 
Total votes: 42

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Aliens

Post by 8-ball » 6 Dec 2007, 07:41

I wander.
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Post by teajay » 6 Dec 2007, 08:14

exist, but have not visited earth.

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Post by zworqy » 6 Dec 2007, 11:20

tijsjoris wrote:exist, but have not visited earth.
<Fihlvein> another case of zworqy-is-always-right closed i guess
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Post by A.K.B. » 6 Dec 2007, 12:55

Mexicans are aliens no?
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Post by Igge » 6 Dec 2007, 14:29

sure as hell exist.

might have visited the earth; don't remember name of the theory, but it's about that the first 1-celled organisms came to earth from space, and then eventually evolved into us. personally i dont believe in this theory, but hey, who am i to say it's wrong?
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Post by Staar » 6 Dec 2007, 16:12

there's no doubt that they exist :P
the question is, have they ever visited earth? :o
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Post by nony » 6 Dec 2007, 16:38

i saw a documentary once about chances of aliens in the universe. the chances of us not being alone is very slim, like 2-3%. anyway, to verify it, a rabbit was sent to some planet. there he actually met(!) an alien who wanted to blow up the 'oith'. the alien had an english speaking(!!!) faithful dog, but the rabbit stopped him, while sacrificing though that planet, that blew up in the shape of a quarter of a moon. nobody knows what happened afterwards, but the proof remains... :?

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Post by Igge » 6 Dec 2007, 16:41

nony wrote:i saw a documentary once about chances of aliens in the universe. the chances of us not being alone is very slim, like 2-3%.
I'd say chances of us being alone are like 1/1000000000000000......%
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Post by John » 6 Dec 2007, 17:03

exist
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Post by milagros » 6 Dec 2007, 17:25

yes i do exist
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Post by Mawane » 6 Dec 2007, 17:41

I would like a definition of ''Alien''. Then I could write my opinion.
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Post by Igge » 6 Dec 2007, 18:10

obviously a living organism that does not come on earth?
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Post by The_BoneLESS » 6 Dec 2007, 18:37

i do believe aliens exist

with the amount of galaxies and planets that actually exist, the chances would be very slim that none of those actually possess one living organism.


yeah, and i'd love to hear sveinR's point of view on this...
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Post by WkE » 6 Dec 2007, 19:37

I don't like the word "aliens". I prefer regarding them as a humanlike race somewhere in a distant galaxy. I mean, the universe is so big, and we barely know our own solar system, so chances are pretty high that there is some inteliigent civilization in a far away planet.

Paradox is: assuming the number of planets (thus life environments) in the universe tends to infinity, and lets say that the chance to find humanlike civilization on a planet is 1:(10^20) - then there is still an infinite number of civilzations out there, and it is but logical that the Human race is not the most advanced of them all. Therefore, I came to the conclusion that some other civilzation must have better technologies and space-travel capabilities: so how come we never had visitors on our planet?

Only possible solution is that I base this paradox on a coarse assumption (the number of planets in the universe is, indeed, very large, yet still finite).

Other opinions on this subject?
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Post by Igge » 6 Dec 2007, 19:46

well, ye, one reason no other organisms have reached us could be just the fact that the usiverse is so huge, that no one has found us

I'd also like to think that since the universe is endless and there probably are an infinite number of other species on other planets, there must also be an infinite number of better species to visit than us?
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Post by The_BoneLESS » 6 Dec 2007, 20:11

WkE wrote:...and it is but logical that the Human race is not the most advanced of them all. Therefore, I came to the conclusion that some other civilzation must have better technologies and space-travel capabilities: so how come we never had visitors on our planet?...
what if we were the most advanced civilization? maybe other civilizations have yet to discover fire? maybe that's the reason they never went to us... simply because they can't.

(you know, we're so used to see sci-fi movies where extra-terrestrials are way more advanced than us that we forget how advanced we actually are)
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Post by Igge » 6 Dec 2007, 20:13

well if the universe is endless and thus has an infinite number of planets, there must be an infinite number of species that are more advanced than us humans.
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Post by teajay » 6 Dec 2007, 20:23

I reckon that these guys are so far away that they're either still travelling to get here, or are simply not interested in us.

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Post by WkE » 6 Dec 2007, 20:36

The_BoneLESS wrote:
what if we were the most advanced civilization? maybe other civilizations have yet to discover fire? maybe that's the reason they never went to us... simply because they can't.

(you know, we're so used to see sci-fi movies where extra-terrestrials are way more advanced than us that we forget how advanced we actually are)
What makes you think that we are the most advanced?

Buy grapes in the grocery and pick a good-looking one. Now you have a nice grape in your hand, but can you say it's the best in the country?

My point is that even if there are civilizations that are yet to discover fire, there must be some others that already master space-travel or colonize other planets. My premise is that we are somewhere in the middle of the technological achievements scale, which is way more logical than assuming that we are in the top of it.

Another possible solution that just came to my mind: maybe the everlasting changes that the astronomical objects are going through (collisions, orbits shifting, climates changing) just never allow a certain species to survive enough time to become highly technologically advanced (and thus able to come say "hello" to us). Or, of course, all civilzations annihilate themselves before this stage (which will likely happen to us, now in the nuclear age).
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Post by Rust » 6 Dec 2007, 22:07

DO NOT EXIST!
But I think that kuskis such as Zweq or John are aliens 100%...
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Post by A.K.B. » 7 Dec 2007, 01:42

I think that "aliens" are what I consider to be the "angelic race", more spiritual than actually "science fiction" aliens.
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Post by Kopaka » 7 Dec 2007, 11:18

WkE wrote:so how come we never had visitors on our planet?
How do you know we haven't? Sure no one has visited last 100 years but maybe some did 5000 years ago and builed the pyramids :)

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Post by milagros » 7 Dec 2007, 11:32

WkE wrote:Paradox is: assuming the number of planets (thus life environments) in the universe tends to infinity
there are around 10^79 electron in the universe (yes, it can be counted)
number of planets has to be way below that
WkE wrote:My point is that even if there are civilizations that are yet to discover fire, there must be some others that already master space-travel or colonize other planets. My premise is that we are somewhere in the middle of the technological achievements scale, which is way more logical than assuming that we are in the top of it.
well, they can be a few million years ahead but still i find possible that space travelling is theoretically impossible, thus not even advanced aliens can't do teh
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Post by Igge » 7 Dec 2007, 13:31

milagros wrote: there are around 10^79 electron in the universe (yes, it can be counted)
number of planets has to be way below that
There are atleast 10^79 electrons in the universe, and still, i don't think that applies to anti-matter either (where the electrons have a positive charge).
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Post by milagros » 7 Dec 2007, 13:45

Igge wrote:
milagros wrote: there are around 10^79 electron in the universe (yes, it can be counted)
number of planets has to be way below that
There are atleast 10^79 electrons in the universe, and still, i don't think that applies to anti-matter either (where the electrons have a positive charge).
wtf, there are only small fraction of antimatter particles in the universe comparing to 'normal' ones
there is no 'atleast' in 10^79, it's around that number together (assuming there was big bang)
number of planets has to be way below that, how the fuck does antimatter matter there
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Post by sierra » 7 Dec 2007, 19:03

Could exist, but definitely have not visited Earth. Do you guys not realize that to get even to the nearest star in our galaxy takes several light years, by which time any living being would be long dead.

By the way, Earth isn't as insignificant as you might at first think. Yes, there are loads of stars and so it is probable that there exists a planet that is also a suitable distance from a star to allow life, but there are more factors than just distance from the star. For one, we have Jupiter nearby, which pulls most of the potentially life-threatening asteroids out of our path due to its superior gravitational field.

There could be other life forms somewhere else in the Universe, and maybe that event even has a probability greater than 0.5. But I don't agree that it is likely they are trying to contact us, let alone visit us, and they would be, as far as I'm concerned, every bit as oblivious to our existence as we are to theirs.
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Post by Mushroom » 7 Dec 2007, 22:48

Igge wrote:well if the universe is endless and thus has an infinite number of planets, there must be an infinite number of species that are more advanced than us humans.
Just because the universe is endless doesn't mean it can't have a finite mass... ( it has a finite mass)

"Could exist, but definitely have not visited Earth. Do you guys not realize that to get even to the nearest star in our galaxy takes several light years, by which time any living being would be long dead. "

I don't get this. It might take some hundreds of thousands of years seen from the planet they were sent from, but the time on the spaceship will be alot shorter :/


OT: why is it there isn't as much anti matter as "real" matter? Is it something about the symmetri in the early universe or something ? :/

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Post by niN » 7 Dec 2007, 23:42

"Could exist, but definitely have not visited Earth. Do you guys not realize that to get even to the nearest star in our galaxy takes several light years, by which time any living being would be long dead. "

this is no waterproof opinion. One could move a civilisation by spaceships. Especially one whom might have a far more advanced technology than we could ever imagine. And with that type of technology one might even be able to get a spaceship that could travel that far in an earth-day.

Still, I'm pretty sure that no 'aliens' have visited the earth since the earth is so young compared to the universe.
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Post by John » 8 Dec 2007, 15:20

niN wrote:And with that type of technology one might even be able to get a spaceship that could travel that far in an earth-day.
nat possible to travel lightyears in a day, it's physically impossible to go faster than light.
maby if they had such advanced technology that they could fold universe together, travel through that fold and then unfold again, i guess that might be hard tho, but who knows ;o
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Post by Igge » 8 Dec 2007, 18:17

maybe the have something that can disolve you into mere quarks or possibly something smaller, send them away to a planned destination where they assemble again? Yes, kinda like teleportation. And ez be able to get quarks up to a speed close to C. adn i since the quakrs don't get like older or age (i think? :0) there could be a spossibility that someone could survive deep-space travel?
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Post by niN » 8 Dec 2007, 18:27

John wrote:
niN wrote:And with that type of technology one might even be able to get a spaceship that could travel that far in an earth-day.
nat possible to travel lightyears in a day, it's physically impossible to go faster than light.
maby if they had such advanced technology that they could fold universe together, travel through that fold and then unfold again, i guess that might be hard tho, but who knows ;o
if one could bend space and time they could (like you said). And as I said, we don't know if that's possible. I wouldn't rule the possibility out at all.
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Post by teajay » 8 Dec 2007, 18:30

Interesting, igge. I think it might be easier than that though. If you manage to break someone down in quarks, you can probably just digitalise anything aswell. Then you can send the information using light across the universe where on the other side another machine will reassemble it again.

Ofcourse, you need to have gotten across the universe first, so that will be a problem. But I guess that's the same story with your proposition, because there's no way those guys are gonna reassemble lifeforms all by themselves.

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Post by Igge » 8 Dec 2007, 18:48

If they have found a way to create living organisms through coding (you code the equivalent to our DNA) and if you could code living organisms, maybe you could send the data to other places in space, and then through some process create them where they end up?
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Post by teajay » 8 Dec 2007, 19:50

That's smart! Maybe that's how we got created. :wink:

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Post by Igge » 8 Dec 2007, 19:54

But then the question remains: Why would someone bother coding our feelings, which are threatening to destroy the earth? Would be much better to code us as slaves, so that when they have developed even more sophisticated space-travel they could with some proogram kill us all instantaniously and then inhabit the earth themselves?
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Post by teajay » 8 Dec 2007, 20:12

Better yet; there planet was about to dissolve due to severe climatic changes, so they sent capsules out to space containing the highly experimental Developable Nurturing Anthropos. The planet finally exploded when this DNA was well on it's way to several corners of the universe.

And one of these capsules happens to have landed on earth, about 4 billion years ago. The DNA had yet a long journey to eventually evolve into DNA capable of producing human life. We ourselves are alien.

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Post by Igge » 8 Dec 2007, 20:28

Sounds good :D
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Post by Zweq » 9 Dec 2007, 00:12

zamppe logic: as incredible as earth's story is(distance from sun, 66 degrees, moon, magnetic field, jupiter and so on), I voted exist because if billions of galaxies exist and each one contains billions of stars the odds that earth #2 exists are high =D
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Post by A.K.B. » 9 Dec 2007, 02:01

Can you guys read what you've been posting? You sound like a bunch of fucktarded michael moores
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Post by Igge » 9 Dec 2007, 02:10

michael moore sach pwns
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Post by teajay » 9 Dec 2007, 02:32

oh, here comes mister-father-son-holy-ghost-amen. :roll:

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Post by Mushroom » 9 Dec 2007, 05:01

tijsjoris wrote: If you manage to break someone down in quarks, you can probably just digitalise anything aswell. Then you can send the information using light across the universe where on the other side another machine will reassemble it again.
But still the universe is so big so that even traveling with the speed of light it will still take mill of years :/..

Btw it wouldn't make any sense to break the atoms down to quarks :/

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Post by John » 9 Dec 2007, 12:39

tijsjoris wrote:oh, here comes mister-father-son-holy-ghost-amen. :roll:
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Post by teajay » 9 Dec 2007, 13:01

You see, time doesn't really matter in this concept. That's why I think we need to digitalise instead of breaking down into quarks or atoms, because these still have a maximum age.
Imagine sending those atoms through space, and when they've gotten to their destination: who knows what is left of you. 8O

Really, I don't think the chance of aliens being able to do this is any greater than very, very, very slim. We should instead take a look a the question of how far the closest aliens capable of performing deep space travelling (maybe with some 30% of C) are. Would they be either 10, 100, 1000 or a million lightyears away?

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Post by A.K.B. » 10 Dec 2007, 03:55

tijsjoris wrote:oh, here comes mister-father-son-holy-ghost-amen. :roll:
I came a long time ago. Fourth post I believe. Why am I even talking to you? You are so-five-minutes ago :!:
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Post by sierra » 10 Dec 2007, 17:49

The whole idea of teleporting doesn't make any sense in present scientific contexts. If we're approaching this question from a rational perspective, this science fiction speculation has no place here.

Btw what zamppe said is totally right. Scientists estimate there are about 1 billion billion (1 * 10^18) planets in the Universe. Richard Dawkins, in his book, conservatively estimates that the chances of a planet being able to host life are a billion to 1.

Let's do some crude probability computations. We already know that there is at least one planet able to host life, because we live on it. Now let's find the probability that we are the only one.

P(one planet can host life) = 1/(1,000,000,000)

P(one planet cannot host life) = 1 - [1/(1,000,000,000)]

P(two planets cannot host life) = 1 - [1/(500,000,000)]

P(in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets, there are not two who can host life) = {1 - [1(500,000,000)]}^(1,000,000,000,000,000,000)

= 0, as far as an ordinary calculator will tell you. The real answer is as good as 0.

So as I said before, there very likely are others out there. But the idea of communicating with them or ever having a chance to see them is simply not compatible with science at present.
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Post by The_BoneLESS » 10 Dec 2007, 17:58

all those numbers and statistics scare me
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Post by niN » 10 Dec 2007, 18:49

sierra wrote:... Btw what zamppe said is totally right. Scientists estimate there are about 1 billion billion (1 * 10^18) planets in the Universe. Richard Dawkins, in his book, conservatively estimates that the chances of a planet being able to host life are a billion to 1...
I'd like to hear their motivation, did you read this off some site?

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Post by sierra » 10 Dec 2007, 20:22

niN wrote:
sierra wrote:... Btw what zamppe said is totally right. Scientists estimate there are about 1 billion billion (1 * 10^18) planets in the Universe. Richard Dawkins, in his book, conservatively estimates that the chances of a planet being able to host life are a billion to 1...
I'd like to hear their motivation, did you read this off some site?
I got the number from Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion". Allow me to quote him exactly:

"Again... the anthropic alternative to the design hypothesis is statistical. Scientists invoke the magic of large numbers. It has been estimated that there are between 1 billion and 30 billion planets in our galaxy, and about 100 billion galaxies in the universe. Knocking a few noughts off for reasons of ordinary prudence, a billion billion is a conservative estimate of the number of available planets in the universe. Now, suppose the origin of life, the spontaneous arising of something equivalent to DNA, really was a quite staggeringly improbable event. Suppose it was so improbable as to occur on only one in a billion planets. A grant-giving body would laugh at any chemist who admitted that the chance of his proposed research succeeding was only one in a hundred. But here we are talking about odds of one in a billion. And yet, even with such absurdly long odds, life will still have arisen on a billion planets - of which Earth, of course, is one."

Richard Dawkins is the Charles Simonyi Professor for the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University, a Fellow of the Royal Society and the Royal Society of Literature, the recipient of the 1987 Royal Society of Literature Award, the 1990 Michael Faraday Award of the Royal Society, the 1997 International Cosmos Prize for Achievement in Human Science, the Kistler Prize in 2001, the Shakespeare Prize in 2005 and the Lewis Thomas Prize in 2007, among other awards. He hasn't just made the numbers up.
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ELMA PRO wrote:does anyone else hate sierra as much as i do? search my posts to find some of his earlier arrogance revealed, and his recent posts indicate blantant "im shit-hot" ism. if someone wants to make the ASF (anti-sierra foundation) i'll put an ugly logo in my signiture

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Post by niN » 10 Dec 2007, 21:08

I doubt he made it up, but it would be nice for my own state of mind to know where he got them from. I trust you in the fact that this is our situation. Doesn't the article say anything about how they got the numbers?

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