To baptize or not to baptize

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Xiphias
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To baptize or not to baptize

Post by Xiphias » 22 Apr 2008, 19:29

Svein Rune wrote:Btw dz, I'm sorry for continuing this, this topic shouldn't be about this issue, so people who want to follow up upon whether baptizing is right or wrong should make a new topic.
I agree, let the dz junior topic be about welcoming =)


Found one interesting article by some random person.
http://lifewise.canoe.ca/Parenting/2008/02/21/4865938.html wrote: By Jackie Burns

It was the two little sisters who lived down the street from me as a kid that scared me away from church. They used to torment me, saying I was “going to hell” because I wasn’t baptized and a regular churchgoer like them.

The experience left such a bad taste in my mouth that I can still remember their names and faces more than 25 years later – and believe me – my memory isn’t one of my strong suits.

I couldn’t understand why these little pig-tailed blonde girls – who should have been playing carelessly in the park like the rest of the kids our age – had such strong convictions about religion when they weren’t even old enough to be left at home alone.

We used to call their dad ‘Mr. Clean’ because he was constantly washing his driveway with the garden hose. Looking back now I can see the irony – was he trying to wash to wash away the sins of the family? If only I had that comeback as a seven-year-old girl.

My parents decided not to baptize me as a baby because my father was Catholic and my mother Protestant. They thought it would be a good idea to let me decide for myself which religion I wanted to embrace when I was old enough.

In the mean time, I definitely felt different than all the other kids who had water poured over them. In fact, it wasn’t until my adult years that I actually met a handle of people who, like me, hadn’t been officially welcomed into the church.

I remember feeling confused when serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer was baptized in jail before he was killed. Did that mean that a man who murdered 17 people and kept their remains in the fridge was now going to heaven while I would suffer a less kind fate?

The issue of baptism came up again after the birth of my son. Like my father, my husband’s family is Catholic and baptizing their grandson was a given. I struggled for a long time over what to do. If I wasn’t baptized, why was it important for me to baptize my son?

In the end I decided that this was something I wanted not only for my son, but for me as well. Call it the 2-for-1 baptism special. I’d always believed in a higher power and having my son only drove that point home for me. If ever there was a time to take the plunge, so to speak, it was now.

While researching which church I wanted to baptize us in – I came across a statement on the Metropolitan United Church’s website that really struck a chord. “Baptism is not a requirement for God’s love. We believe people who die without baptism are in no way condemned, lost or damned.” Take that neighbour girls!

I had always felt good about the United Church’s openness towards women, same-sex couples and other religions. I’d also been married by a United Church minister two years before.

So on a sunny Sunday morning in November, I held my four-month-old son in front of the congregation of family and friends and was baptized alongside him. As the minister poured water on our heads and anointed us with oil – I felt overcome with emotion. Whatever life held for us – we were in it together.

And it turns out I’m in good company. Auzzie actor Russell Crowe recently told Men’s Journal magazine that he plans to be baptized at the age of 43. “I started thinking recently, if I believe it is important to baptize my kids why not me?” he said of his sons 3 and 1. “There is something much bigger that drives us all. I’m willing to take that leap of faith.”

I couldn’t have said it better mate!
I was baptized when I got my name and I know there can be a difference between baptized and none-baptized (Baptists). It can seem a bit separated into groups, cults. We have it like that in my country. But I don't think, weather a person choses to do it or not, that there will be a major conflict.

Discuss :P
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John
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Post by John » 22 Apr 2008, 22:22

nat baptized
Image

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Igge
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Post by Igge » 23 Apr 2008, 07:37

I find it ok if someone want's to be baptized, after having chosen it on their own, but why the hell do they need to baptize their kids aswell? Why don't they let them find out what they want on their own?
And it turns out I’m in good company. Auzzie actor Russell Crowe recently told Men’s Journal magazine that he plans to be baptized at the age of 43. “I started thinking recently, if I believe it is important to baptize my kids why not me?” he said of his sons 3 and 1. “There is something much bigger that drives us all. I’m willing to take that leap of faith.”
This is so fucked up. Again, I find it ok if he now, at the age of 43 and fully capable of making his own decisions, wants to get baptized. But as he refers to it as 'a leap of faith', how does he know that his children are ready to take that leap aswell?

Why, oh why can't he just let his children grow up without the propaganda, and then see what they do? Is he scared that he will go to heaven and his children won't, in case they don't get baptized? Well, then I say, that's one nice god you got involved with..

You got baptized by your own will, atleast give that freedom to your kids aswell - don't think you know what's best for them, if what you think might not even be real. Don't fill their heads with lies and propaganda, at such young age, if they havn't agreed to it themselves

I'm not baptized, and I can't tell you how happy I am for that. I do have some atheist friends who were baptized though, and I can honestly can't see what you mean by those baptized/non baptized groups you were talking about. As long as they now, grown up, can make their own decisions, and are not controlled by something their parents did before, It doesn't bother me that much, although I do think it would be alot nicer to ask him before doing such a thing. I mean c'mon! You ask him what faking icecream topping he wants, but you can't ask him if he wants to do a thing that could possibly change his whole life?

God, give your kids some respect. You don't have to think for them all the time.
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Post by Staar » 23 Apr 2008, 08:53

Igge wrote:God, give your kids some respect. You don't have to think for them all the time.
you have to think for them for some time, kids don't (with very rare exceptions) know what they want.
and church is not such a bad thing, it just teaches you to be a good person. and this thing about God is similar to those white lies about Santa Claus :P
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Post by A.K.B. » 23 Apr 2008, 09:42

Staar, nat.

Anyway, need to remember here that baptism is a symbolic acceptance into the family of Christ and differs from christening, which is not to the persons choice, yet to their parents.

And remember, that no ceremony will get you anywhere, all it does is symbolize your second birth, into the family of Christ, which could simply be done by prayer, just because one chooses of their free will to be baptized is no call for concern.
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Post by Staar » 23 Apr 2008, 09:50

you guys care if u were baptised or not?
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Post by bob » 23 Apr 2008, 10:00

i was baptised.

i am an atheist, but before i discovered that....

i went to a catholic primrary and secondary school.

i did reconciliation, communion etc etc in primrary school, but not by choice. really, what kind of choice did i have? there was no choice. Looking but now it really does piss me off. i was like 10, and was just going along with every other kid. i had no idea what it really meant.

At highschool, we would start the day off by saying a prayer (something like the hail mary) in the name of the father, the son and the holy mongo, which i would do because everyone was doing it. it was a routine. but when i hit 14-16, i stopped being a teenage smartass and start questioning things and start making choices for myself. That's when i refused to prayer each morning and go to church all together. listening and watching people pray, constantly repeating themselves, started to get funny to me.

the most catholic person i know is my 87yr old grandmother. she is maybe the most caring person in my life, and would abosuletly do anything for her 12 kids and 35 grandchildren. i remember her telling me one day that she say jesus in one of her dreams with one of her deceased daughters, and he told her some words of wisdom - yeah in her dreams, the same place i saw a 4 headed monkey. but sometimes, i want to tell her "why? how can you be so blind and stupid?" - but i wont. sadly it would hurt too much inside.
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Post by Igge » 23 Apr 2008, 10:10

bob wrote:in the name of the father, the son and the holy mongo
Sach laled at teh :'D

Soreyz, just had to say teh.
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Post by bob » 23 Apr 2008, 10:15

hmm that post could have been in the religion topic.

not to baptize btw
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Post by zworqy » 23 Apr 2008, 12:49

who cares
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Post by teajay » 24 Apr 2008, 17:31

I just took a shower, so no thanks.

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Post by Harald Hasch » 24 Apr 2008, 22:33

as long as we feel we have to make up noises for eachother, there will probably be things like baptism.

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Post by berhabdul » 25 Apr 2008, 01:13

ez baptize to have parties with family :beer:

if he decides to be an atheist he won't care anyway

kid: dad why u baptised me?
dad: i wanted to have some max parties <3
kid: nice, u had max fun anyway i don't care about god
dad: hah, ok teh

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Post by teajay » 27 Apr 2008, 21:36

err.. max parties can be without that too. Most parties rock better without the whole family present.

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Post by sierra » 28 Apr 2008, 00:12

Absolutely, categorically, emphatically NOT to baptise

Calling your infant a Christian is like calling him a neo-Classical Keynesian economist, or a punctuationist evolutionary biologist, or a Popperian philosopher. In fact, it's actually more absurd, because unlike Christianity, those belief systems are all based on rational argument, with robust evidence to support them. Christianity is a very complex, specific and above all arbitrary ideology, and nobody who hasn't at least studied alternative religions, as well as the scientific explanation for life, is really able to profess belief in it. And even if they have studied alternative religions and the scientific explanation for life, and still decide to be Christians, it doesn't make the baptism process any more defensible - rather, it is a damning testimony to the dishonest tactics of adult Christians in perpetuating their illogical dogma.

As for justifying it on moral grounds, that is a very strange argument indeed. If the only reason people don't lie, rape, murder and covet their neighbour's wife is because of the Ten Commandments; because they are making a bargain with God to get into heaven; then that does not constitute morality, it constitutes cowardly bet-hedging. If the reason people don't lie, rape, murder and covet their neighbour's wife is because they genuinely believe those actions to be wrong, then that is an example of morality. Taking this argument to the extreme, atheism is actually the only moral stance. Teaching your children sound moral principles such as 'do to others as you would have them do to you' is the way to encourage morality, and this is quite separate from teaching them to follow Jesus or Mohammed.
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